Although I have much love for RPD, I think all the RUG Tempo decks in the meta right now make it worse than any of the 4+ toughness guys.
I feel that RPD is better than Moltensteel vs Batterskull though.
Whelp, after much strenuous playtesting I think I've boiled down my deck into what I intend to take to the Starcity IQ tomorrow. Its not quite where I would like it to be, however as I could not obtain the necessary cards for my full-on MUD build this is what I've settled on:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Chrome Mox
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Batterskull
4 Seething Song
2 Blood Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Flametongue Kavu
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Moltensteel Dragon
3 Shattering Spree
4 Pyroblast
4 Powder Keg
4 Anarchy
Overall the list isn't too extraordinary. Until now I've been using that 11th Mountain as RAkroma however based on over an hour of goldfishing I've found myself throwing away otherwise good hands because I was a land short, and seeing as how my list has a higher curve I figured an extra land couldn't hurt.
I struggled somewhat on the SB. The Spree/Pyro/Anarchy we're already guranteed slots. It was the remaining 4, however, that gave me trouble. Now, players who have been following the DS thread know I'm a DS patriot when it comes to Phyrexian Revoker. That having been said, however, after looking at the field I honestly think Keg will be stronger versus the field.
I'm not denying exactly how many viable targets Revoker has in the meta. However, its important to determine which abilities ultimately screw us over and which abilities can either be ignored or played around. The primary combos are Dredge/Reanimator/Solidarity all of which couldn't care less about Revoker (other than Dredge's PImp which isn't really that damaging a target). The primary control MU's would be either Equipment-based (which Spree/Keg answer) or BUG/Jace 2.0. Pyro answers Jace, and while not being able to shut off Deed sucks its ultimately not a highly likely MU that I'll argue Revoker as a must for the sake of the MU. As far as aggro/aggro-control goes, that least RUG/Maverick. In regards to RUG Revoker really has no targets to speak. Maverick, however, does indeed have Mom/Qasali/Ooze/Birds/Hierach/KotR. In my opinion, despite its abundance of targets, the face remains that we only run 4 Revokers and thats too many relevant abilities to answer. True, if we rely on Anarcy we only have to consider green effects, however if it comes to shutting off a creature or killing it, I'd honestly rather remove the threat entirely. Yes, I sacrifice the 2/1 Revoker body, but Keg just seems like a much safer route as it kills their entire field, does minimal damage to us as we run no 1/2 cmc, plus being an artifact means their only option for removal is Qasali which, even with GSZ, isn't guranteed to be drawn in time.
After my head started to go numb I decided to have some fun experimentation time just for the fun of it and I upped the land count to 22, took out my Chrome and in their place added 3 Mox Diamond. I know, silly, right? I decided to try and build DS like Stax deck. It was actually quite fun to playtest as I threw away far fewer hands because I lacked mana. Of course, I think the deck was telling me not to play it like this because every game I goldfished my opening 7 either had 1 Mox/1 Land only, 2 Moxes/1 land, or it was mana flooded and had a single Magus in it. :P Still, pretty fun.
I was absolutely in love with my MUD build and found Etched Champion to be a powerhouse, especially against Maverick, and as such I'm going to attempt to go in early and trade for the remaining 2 Mox Opal's I need, or at the very least borrow them. Pending I suceed, here is the list I will pilot:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Great Furnace
6 Mountain
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Opal
3 Trinisphere
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Batterskull
4 Seething Song
2 Blood Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Etched Champion
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Moltensteel Dragon
2 Flex spots (Still deciding on this; Perhaps I'll do +1 Land/+1 Champion, or maybe +2 FTK I had considered running +2 Cursed Totem but I'm worried about sitting at 19 threats).
Sorry I've been hogging the thread with debate about my deck, however as this is the first ever Starcity I'll be taking DS to I'm rather nervous/timid. When I've tested my Deadguy Ale build against the meta I've almost always topped out with a higher-than-average win ratio. Even Enchantress faired rather well. DS is possibly one of the worst decks I could take into this meta. :P
Well, I'd best be heading to sleep. Good fortunes, everybody!
Forlorn Egoist
How to play Belcher:
Step 1) Draw 7 cards.
Step 2) Throw said 7 cards onto the table while making a "BLAH!" sound.
Step 3) Hold up hands quizically and ask: "Do I win?"
Decks
Enchantress
Dragon Stompy
Rock
UG Madness/Thresh (Pauper)
How does FTK have anti-synergy w/Lodestone? If its because Lodestone denies their ability to play spells, well, FTK has always worked fine with 3sphere and considering Lodestone doesn't stack on top of 3sphere (sad panda) I haven't really tested anything real annoying.
As far as the Songs go, yes, It can be somewhat annoying, however I rarely begin the game with a T1/2/3 Lodestone. The Song is primarily to provide the acceleration in those first initial turns. After that the Songs are mostly used to drop multiple threats when my hand gets full or to negate some of the costs from Moltensteel. The MUD build honestly relies less on Songs since I don't need the R fixing, and can easily play most everything off Sol lands, 1 Mountain, and/or a Mox.
I just had a thought in regards to the 2 Flex spots in the MUD list. Maybe they should be Phyrexian Metamorph. Copies problem creatures and would probably be my only out to Emmie of which I know at least 2 or 3 people are taking S&T/Hive Mind/SA decks to the SC. Well, whatever.
I'm off to the tourney! Wish me luck, all.
Forlorn Egoist
How to play Belcher:
Step 1) Draw 7 cards.
Step 2) Throw said 7 cards onto the table while making a "BLAH!" sound.
Step 3) Hold up hands quizically and ask: "Do I win?"
Decks
Enchantress
Dragon Stompy
Rock
UG Madness/Thresh (Pauper)
Hope you had luck, FE.
I just saw that this was spoiled:
Hound of Grislebrand
Creature - Elemental Hound 2/2
Double Strike
Undying
Moonsilver Spear might be something to look into also.
Reforge the Soulseems like it could be pretty good as a 2 of in those flex slots. Hitting 3RR is nothing for this deck.
Luck is a residue of design.
I'm an aspiring Psychedelic Trance musician. Please feel free to enjoy my sense of life:
http://soundcloud.com/vacrix
Expect me or die. I play SI.
Well, overall I am rather exhausted.
As it turns out Monsters Den was having its monthly 1.5 Big Legacy w/dual prizes so only 10 people showed up to the IQ, all of which were people I play with at our weekly Legacy. Knowing that they were all going into the field playing mid-range Uxx control I felt rather confident in my ability to handle the field. Here is what it broke down into: Burn, Dredge, Rock, Canadian Thresh, Canadian Thresh, Thopter Combo, Lands, BUG, Maverick, Dragon Stompy (Me).
I went 0-4.
Looking at the field I felt rather confident beforehand so all the jitters about playing my deck went out the window, I fiddled with the SB, and registered my MUD build. I didn't take notes, so this will be short descriptions which, considering I got blown out totally, should be fast.
Round 1 Dredge
Game One: I know hes Dredge beforehand so I keep a hand thats something like Tomb, Opal, SSG, 3sphere, Jitte, Mountain, Magus. He T1 PImp, I T1 Moon. This shuts off his Gemstone, and the turn after his Cephalid. This proves moot, however, as by T3 he must've had some type of GOD deck stack because he nixes all 4 Bridges off a single Dredge effect and soon after gets his DR. So, I have to find a way to deal with Multiple Zombies and a DR 10+/10+ Golgari. I concede.
SB: -1 Chalice, -2 Bskull, +3 Revoker
Game Two: I T1 Revoker ->PImp which was smart as it turns out that was his planned T1 play. I get a T2 Jitte. T2 He does something to the effect of Breakthrough and gets DR/a bunch of dredges into the yard, including 2 Narco. I equip Jitte, swing (no blocks) and use 1 of the counters to kill a Narco. T3 he dredges getting 3 Bridges into the 'yard. After his last Dredge card from the spell he cast I used last Jitte token to kill my own Revoker, Exiling Bridges. He continues to dredge, gets his other 2 Narco, DR some creature from Ascension that when it or another creature ETB it deals 4 damage. I'm not sure what it was or how the effect reads, I just know I lose.
Round Two- Burn
Game 1: I open up with a T1 Moon. He drops a Mesa, taps it, then Bolts me for 3. Wow. I had kept a hand with 1 Tomb as my Sol land, and already tapped it on T1, so sitting at 15 already against a burn deck. Not good. Once I realizes hes on burn I look at my hand and instantly realize I'm fucked. I've got (after my draw): Furnace, Moltensteel (drew), Molteensteel, Lodestone, Mox, Jitte. Okay, obviously I need to get an active Jitte online asap. I drop my Furnace/Mox/Jitte, and pass. He Chains/Suspends Spike, passes. I draw another Tomb (sighs) Drop my Lodestone, pass. Spike hits Golem, he bolts Golem, drops a Lavamancer and passes. I topdeck a Magus, drop it, figure I'd go balls to the wall and equip it, putting me at 3. He topdecks a land and opts to Burn my face with Lavamancer, dropping me to 1. I swing, get Jitte counters. At E0T he burns me with a spell,. I use Jitte counters (?). He just responded with "Oh.... okay." Basically we continue such an exchange for 10 minutes. Apparantly Burn is the only deck he has, and hes not used to playing in a competitive meta where people actually have answers to his deck. Eventually, however, he topdecks Fireblast he needs to kill me off.
B]SB[/B]: -2 BMoon, -2 Moltensteel (NOTE: I was iffy on removing the Bmoon as they shut off my Tomb pain however I knew that I needed to be as aggro as possible so I added in Revokers. Figured they were a creature and that maybe I'd luck out and be able to nix Lavamancer or Cursed Scroll.
Game Two: I draw into Tomb, Song, Song, SSG, SSG, BSkull, Revoker. T1 Bskull seemed Legit against Burn, so I went for it. T2 He drops a mountain, Suspends Spike, passes. I swing in for 4, going up to 22. T2 Spike eats my face for 3, then he Smash to Smithereens my Bskull. OUCH! After this burn just eats my face all day long. --'
Round 3- Thopter Combo
The match started with the Judge asking to look at both our decks, so he and I spend 10 minutes just with idle banter. He had just gotten blown out by the Lands player who managed to stall out G1 to, like, 45 minutes. Then G2 he pulled off a 5 minute win. WTF. Seeing him play that round was what it must seem like when people watch me pretty much say random mana counts and throw cards on the table with my Enchantress deck.
Game One: Not much to say in Game 1. He counters my initial lock pieces before getting his combo online.
SB: -2 Moons/-4 Magus (because I saw his Lands match and knew he had around 6-8 basics), -1 Song, +4 Pyroblast, +3 Spree (Couldn't find any other cards to remove for Keg). I also know I sidded in Revokers by dunno what I took out.
Game Two: This match is where I completely get all control over him. I drop a T1 Tomp/SSG-> 3sphere forcing him to FoW->Thopter. He drops a land, Bstorm, passes. I drop a land Furnace, pass. He attempts a T2 Thopter. I PBlast, it resolves. I drop a T3 Moltensteel, it resolves. He drops a land T3. I drop a Jitte, he spell pierces (I Pblast). I attempt to equip Moltensteel, he StP. He drops a Jace 2.0 T4 (I Exile SSG->Pblast), countering Jace. I then establish an active Jitte on some creature and win. Wow, I lucked out on the Pblasts.
Game 3: He drops a Land, pass. I T1 Chalice @ 1, it resolves. He drops a land T2, Bstorm, passes. I attempt a Chalice @ 2. In response he destroys Chalice @ 1 (I forgot how) and Chalic @ 2 resolves. Now, here is where my deck totally trolls me. Chalice @ 2 literally shuts off nearly his entire deck with exception to Clique, Jace, Force, and cantrips. I considered it a win. My deck decides troll me and gives me nothing but 2 drops (Revoker Jitte). He gets a Jace 2.0 online LITERALLY one turn before I had planned to drop a Chalice @ 4. I literally spent 10-11 turns drawing nothing but lands and then he gets Jace and pulls of ultimate. Seriously, 10+ turns of nothing but lands. I neede JUST 1 creature, but nope. Ugh!
Round 4- Canadian Thresh
At this point I know I won't even get prizes if I go 2-0 against him but I figure I'd play considering this shit cost me $25 so I should get the most of it.
Pretty much both G1/2 have him counter my first 2 spells with him getting, like, T4/5 2 Goyfs/2 Thresh Mongooses.
So.... yeah. I'm definitely in the "dismantle this deck, treade off the pieces, and build UR Painter," kind of mood. Here are my thoughts:
The MUD build isn't necessarily a bad build, but it shines more in heavy control metas like back in Countertop days. We need acceleration, so relying on Chrome Mox is necessary. EChampion is a powerhouse, but it can be rather annoying to get Metalcraft. Honestly, the meta is just at a point where I can't find a build with which to be content. I think I'll just drop DS for a while, and spend some time messing around with Deadguy and UR Painter.
Forlorn Egoist
How to play Belcher:
Step 1) Draw 7 cards.
Step 2) Throw said 7 cards onto the table while making a "BLAH!" sound.
Step 3) Hold up hands quizically and ask: "Do I win?"
Decks
Enchantress
Dragon Stompy
Rock
UG Madness/Thresh (Pauper)
So with Mad Prophet being spoiled for Avacyn Restored I wonder if anyone thinks it could help with getting dead cards out of your hand. I like the fact that it has haste and loots. Any thoughts or has anyone else seen something else that will help Dragon Stompy? I just started playing Stompy and I am loving it so far.
I'm not sure if the prophet is really that great, but I can list the things that I've seen that look interesting to me so far:
Reforge the Soul
Hound of Grislebrand
Dangerous Wager
Bonfire of the Damned
Moonsilver Spear
@Forlorn: In your G1 against Burn, were you still taking damage from your Tombs after you Blood Moon'd? I'm referring to when you said you played your Magus and equipped it with the Jitte, going to 3.
@ Esper:
I may be slightly off in the play-to-play breakdown. I just know that I eventually went down to either 3 or 2, within range of 1 burn spell.
Forlorn Egoist
How to play Belcher:
Step 1) Draw 7 cards.
Step 2) Throw said 7 cards onto the table while making a "BLAH!" sound.
Step 3) Hold up hands quizically and ask: "Do I win?"
Decks
Enchantress
Dragon Stompy
Rock
UG Madness/Thresh (Pauper)
I seriously consider Cavern of Souls for this deck.
Uncounterable Magus of the Moon? Sign me in.
It also makes uncounterable:
all the Werewolves, Hanweir Watchkeep being the best of them.
Taurean Mauler
Kargan Dragonlord
Priest of Urabrask
Jaya Ballard
Basically the only drawback it has is that it cant provide {R} with a Sol-Land on turn 2 for Blood Moon.
I think Sword of War and Peace is the best Sword for the deck. It grants lifegain and fast beats, and is RIDICULOUS with Priest.
I don't quite get all the werewolf-hatery of you guys. You don't want that your opponent plays spells. They most likely don't do, so they flip and are fast beats. Even if you don't like them you must agree that Hanweir Watchkeep looks kinda good for it's cost.
on other AVR-cards:
While I really love Bonfire of the Damned I don't think it is good for us. The only card that could see play imo is Zealous Conscripts but only as a finisher or in a meta full of S&T decks.
regards...
The werewolves were too inconsistent for me in playtesting. They're never flipped the right way when you need them. The Watchkeep is basically just a Gathan Raiders, but I would rather have Gathan Raiders because of how our deck works. Personally, I don't use either though. I prefer creatures with abilities over just a big body.
Explain to me why exactly we don't like Bonfire of the Damned, again?
Dragon Stompy is actually a fair choice right now for a deck, for two reasons. One is that Chalice of the Void is solid as balls right now against 2 of the 3 top decks in the format. The second is Bonfire of the Damned. This is a real thing.
First of all, it has very little drawback. It doesn't clog up your hand. It can get out of said hand for a mere 1 mana if need be, and it imprints on Chrome Mox like everything else in the world. It's also tolerable when cast for one. And when you miracle it turn 3/4, it's pretty sick.
Secondly, it's good against the right decks. It handles a lot of fringe aggro decks, can sweep Mongeese/Delvers, and is a behemoth against Maverick if they don't have a Teeg. Maverick's a moderately sketchy matchup anyway. You don't really ever win if they go first and have a Noble Hierarch, and some of the less explosive hands can still be a struggle, so anything that helps is a good thing.
With the tools it has, Dragon Stompy CAN manhandle almost every deck it runs across. It won't do so consistently, of course. It never does. But it's capable of it. Trinisphere is a monster against RUG Delver and Dredge both, which are two of the top decks around. Chalice is great against Maverick and RUG Delver, and actually fairly decent against Sneaky Show on occasion against the dig. Moon effects hurt RUG Delver and can occasionally mess with Maverick. Bonfire hurts any deck with small dudes. Show and Tell's your toughest matchup right now, and it's not unfeasible to overboard for them to get by.
EDIT: FWIW, I'd play MUD over this right now ALL DAY long. Cavern of Souls naming Constructs is >> This entire deck.
What you guy's think of the news creatures that wiz realesead (Hound of griselband and the new M13 Fênix), i realy think that they could work in the deck, even more in the Jitte builds and the Mountain Yeti is a monster in that build too.
I've been collecting DS pieces for the last few weeks because I felt it would be strong against the 1-drop decks and the 3-color decks that are seeing heavy play.
Okay... granted. But I don't want to play MUD =)
Taco, what would your Dragon Stompy build look like today? I agree with your assessment of Bonfire of the Damned. Do you feel Koth of the Hammer is a viable threat for DS to play?
Koth, while a really good card, just doesn't fit into the Dragon Stompy shell too well. Bonfire of the Damned, on the other hand, is the butts.
Hey. I've been toying arround with Dragon Stompy, simply because I love Chalice of the Void (and how it screws Legacy). I've been tunning a list, and this is what I've reached:
10 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Flametongue Kavu
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
3 Koth of the Hammer
3 Blood Moon
3 Trinisphere
2 Sword of War and Peace
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Bonfire of the Damned
SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Anarchy
SB: 3 Powder Keg
SB: 2 Shattering Spree
SB: 2 Chaos Warp
SB: 1 Bonefire of the Damned
Any comments or advices I should take? Thanks in advance.
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
I'll go a step further and just flat out say that Koth of the Hammer is a bad card, period. Also on the suck list - The new Phoenix, and Hound of Griselbrand.
Hound of Griselbrand is close, but just doesn't do enough. He's a five turn clock by himself - That's pretty shitty for Dragon Stompy. The ONLY thing I like about him is that he's great at eating Flametongue Kavu fire. But since the metagame's pretty bad for Flametongue Kavu also, I'd just skip the whole group.
Without just committing to MUD, here's what I'd play and why:
Manabase (See Below): You can run 11 Mountains if you really want. You can flirt with dropping a Spirit Guide or a Seething Song. It won't make that much difference in the long run. Nothing's ever convinced me that the deck's going to magically not lose to itself a bunch, so I go with what I feel is optimalized to make it just win to itself a bunch as well.
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Seething Song
Disruption and Non-Dudes: Chalice is pretty solid right now, as is Trinisphere. Blood Moon and Bonfire counts are more metagame guesses, and I'd be willing to gamble on 3 Bonfire/2 Moon in some metas. But Blood Moon's still a complete behemoth against RUG Delver, so stick with it.
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Blood Moon
2 Bonfire of the Damned
Guys: I still am not impressed enough with anything to not run Gathan Raiders and Arc-Slogger. Raiders' Hellbent Acceleration is so so crucial to damage races involving Dragon, and Arc-Slogger's the god of clocks. Either he's a 3-turn clock or he's a mid-size body with a built in path-clearing ability. Sulfur Elemental makes the cut for being incredible against Maverick's Moms and Thalias.
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Gathan Raiders
2 Sulfur Elemental
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Arc-Slogger
SB: Most of this is pretty self-explanatory. Crypt for Dredge/Reanimator. Revoker for anything you need it for, such as Sneak Attack. The random 1-ofs are increases to maindecks to up your chances, and Red Blasts are there for Show and Tell and the occasional Merfolk/High Tide deal.
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Trinisphere
1 Blood Moon
1 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Red Elemental Blast
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