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Thread: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

  1. #3021

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Who's going to get the invocation blood moons?

  2. #3022
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Marco, so he can misrepresent the card

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

  3. #3023

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    What are people's thoughts on running some number (my guess 1 or 2) of outpost sieges for sin prodder?

  4. #3024
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Valleysdai View Post
    What are people's thoughts on running some number (my guess 1 or 2) of outpost sieges for sin prodder?
    4 Drop.deck?

    And you already have 2 Chandra's that have a similar mode. (We are not going to name Dragons I hope)
    And people will bring already enchantment hate in if they run it, so I see no reason why you want to run this over a planeswalker with more modes.

    I used to have a couple of these in the board vs control in the pre Chandra era, but moved away since.

  5. #3025
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Valleysdai View Post
    What are people's thoughts on running some number (my guess 1 or 2) of outpost sieges for sin prodder?
    As said above: No more 4 drops. I liked the way Wichtelmann evolved the deck cutting 1 Fiery and replacing it by Sudden Shocks (2drops). You really should not overdo it with 4 drops.

    I would rather play Rabblemasters -> I don't like the Sin Prodders as they are so hit/miss. With the Rabblemasters you also have a fast clock against Storm/Miracles.
    Also you have the potential to get DQed...
    Chalice on 1

  6. #3026

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    I'm going to find a way to get two of these in the main or board in the dragon stax list.

    http://mythicspoiler.com/hou/cards/miragemirror.html

  7. #3027

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    tested out the dragon stax list last night. definitely made a few crucial play errors but I really like the dragon/bridge synergy. unfortunately one game I got wrecked by gadddock teeg.

    I'm going to make some tweaks to the list and try again.

    notably,
    -4 smokestack
    -1 mix diamond

    +3 2cmc removal (magma jet most likely)
    +1 siege gang
    +1 idk, quicksmith, hazoret, koth

    or I might try and get a couple 3cmc threats in there. still exploring options.

    I had no problems locking my opponents out of playing magic, but the deck is slow to win and gives the opponent ample time to draw out of the lock. smokestack not being able to target problem critters was an issue.

    as much as I love smokestack, it's very hard to leverage it efficiently in legacy.

  8. #3028

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    deleted
    Last edited by Wichtelman; 06-22-2017 at 09:02 AM.

  9. #3029

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Princessforfun View Post
    I'm going to find a way to get two of these in the main or board in the dragon stax list.

    http://mythicspoiler.com/hou/cards/miragemirror.html
    You activate it once in opponent's end step to become a copy of Smokestack to get an initial soot counter on it in your upkeep, then afterwards you always activate it in your own end step to become a copy of Smokestack to get asymmetrical smokestack effects for the opponent's upkeep?

    Damn, that's a ridiculously complex play sequence to pull off.

  10. #3030
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Karhumies View Post
    You activate it once in opponent's end step to become a copy of Smokestack to get an initial soot counter on it in your upkeep, then afterwards you always activate it in your own end step to become a copy of Smokestack to get asymmetrical smokestack effects for the opponent's upkeep?

    Damn, that's a ridiculously complex play sequence to pull off.
    I thought there might be some sort of possible shinanigans with Smokestack. Thank you for explaining this line of play.

    I'm excited to test this card!

    Edit:
    I brought this up with some Legacy friends and I guess this might not work... still excited though.

  11. #3031
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Karhumies View Post
    You activate it once in opponent's end step to become a copy of Smokestack to get an initial soot counter on it in your upkeep, then afterwards you always activate it in your own end step to become a copy of Smokestack to get asymmetrical smokestack effects for the opponent's upkeep?

    Damn, that's a ridiculously complex play sequence to pull off.
    RFCF - "2: Mirage Mirror becomes a copy of target artifact, creature, enchantment, or land until end of turn."

    There's no profitable way to interact Mirror with Smokestack.
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  12. #3032

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Koby View Post
    RFCF - "2: Mirage Mirror becomes a copy of target artifact, creature, enchantment, or land until end of turn."

    There's no profitable way to interact Mirror with Smokestack.
    You are correct.

    With some googling, I found out that "In modern-day Magic rules, every player's turn has a phase called the "end phase". The last step of the end phase is to remove all "until end of turn" effects and all damage simultaneously."

    I was under the false impression that "end of turn" would be the same thing as a "beginning of next end step" delayed trigger. I stand corrected.

  13. #3033
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Karhumies View Post
    You are correct.

    With some googling, I found out that "In modern-day Magic rules, every player's turn has a phase called the "end phase". The last step of the end phase is to remove all "until end of turn" effects and all damage simultaneously."

    I was under the false impression that "end of turn" would be the same thing as a "beginning of next end step" delayed trigger. I stand corrected.
    Should it not work if you put a sooth counter on it in your turn and you copy it in t the opponents untap fase / beginning of upkeep to make it a copy of Smokestack?

    Shouldn't the desired interaction work then?

  14. #3034

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jelmerz77 View Post
    Should it not work if you put a sooth counter on it in your turn and you copy it in t the opponents untap fase / beginning of upkeep to make it a copy of Smokestack?

    Shouldn't the desired interaction work then?
    Smokestack triggers are put on the stack at beginning of upkeep. Correct me if I am wrong but you never get priority before beginning of upkeep. If you activate it in upkeep when you get priority for the first time to become a copy of Smokestack, you have already missed the trigger condition (beginning of upkeep).

    In other words,
    1) you never get to place a counter on it, requires beginning of upkeep
    2) even if it would magically have a counter on it, the sacrifice trigger does not happen, requires beginning of upkeep

  15. #3035
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Karhumies View Post
    1) you never get to place a counter on it, requires beginning of upkeep
    2) even if it would magically have a counter on it, the sacrifice trigger does not happen, requires beginning of upkeep
    This is correct. Since 6E rules, beginning of step triggers are automatically put on the stack. The cards that generate them have to enter the step with the trigger text. Once all the "beginning of" triggers are put on the stack, only then can a player respond. This rules out any opportunity to profitably activate Mirror to become Smokestack.

    Think of it another way, you cannot copy Goblin Rabblemaster with mirror in the Combat step to generate the token. It has to be a copy of Rabblemaster in Main Phase I in order to enter Combat Step as Rabblemaster to generate a token.

    Unfortunately, there is no point in the turn prior to mid-Upkeep that a player can activate abilities.
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  16. #3036

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jelmerz77 View Post
    Because an equipment is a lousy topdeck when you are behind or on an empty board. This deck used to play equipment (Swords / Jitte) and most people moved away from it. Usually the criteria "Can a card dig me out of a hole by itself" is one I like.

    Regarding the cavern..... You really want to add more colorless mana to this deck? You are already playing 8 remember? I would never play that in my deck, I would rather play Mishra’s Factory over it and I wouldn't even go there in this deck.
    Eh! Disagree. Simian Spirit Guide is a terrible topdeck... unless you have equipment. With SoFI, now it's a threat. And with token generators (Rabble, and possibly Hanweir Garrison) it makes it much easier to have a token or dude on the field to suit up.

    Zoetic Cavern has been fine for me. Like SSG, it smooths out the mana (adding a couple extra lands) while you can convert a land to a beater mid-late game. Mishra's Factory is an obvious no-no with Blood Moon.

    I'm against Ensnaring Bridge. I don't like to be in topdeck mode in a deck that has 0 manipulation. You have to topdeck your answers to your opponent's threats every turn. That's how you lose games. The Moggcatcher build is the only one that really gets around that.
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  17. #3037

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by frogger42 View Post
    Eh! Disagree. Simian Spirit Guide is a terrible topdeck... unless you have equipment. With SoFI, now it's a threat. And with token generators (Rabble, and possibly Hanweir Garrison) it makes it much easier to have a token or dude on the field to suit up.

    Zoetic Cavern has been fine for me. Like SSG, it smooths out the mana (adding a couple extra lands) while you can convert a land to a beater mid-late game. Mishra's Factory is an obvious no-no with Blood Moon.

    I'm against Ensnaring Bridge. I don't like to be in topdeck mode in a deck that has 0 manipulation. You have to topdeck your answers to your opponent's threats every turn. That's how you lose games. The Moggcatcher build is the only one that really gets around that.
    Can someone post the best moggcatcher version?

    Thanks

  18. #3038
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jelmerz77 View Post
    Because an equipment is a lousy topdeck when you are behind or on an empty board.
    Quote Originally Posted by frogger42 View Post
    Eh! Disagree. Simian Spirit Guide is a terrible topdeck... unless you have equipment.
    This is weird, aren't you both saying very similar things? In the late game, SSG and equipment are pretty codependent. Equipment isn't useful without creatures, and SSG is ok without equipment against an empty board, but in you could win with anything if you have board control. I'd say neither fits the bill if you're looking for cards that can individually dig you out of holes. (Of course SSG is useful for acceleration etc., but we're talking about topdeck utility.)
    Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.

  19. #3039

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Karhumies View Post
    Smokestack triggers are put on the stack at beginning of upkeep. Correct me if I am wrong but you never get priority before beginning of upkeep. If you activate it in upkeep when you get priority for the first time to become a copy of Smokestack, you have already missed the trigger condition (beginning of upkeep).

    In other words,
    1) you never get to place a counter on it, requires beginning of upkeep
    2) even if it would magically have a counter on it, the sacrifice trigger does not happen, requires beginning of upkeep
    If it was a trigger (like shallow grave or flickerwisp), you could use it at an end step and it would last until the next. So you would be able to copy the smokestack once at opponent's end step, and then it will have its upkeep triggers on your turn. After that, it has soot counters so you can activate it at your end step from then on and you have The Abyss for permanents. All it takes is a boatload of mana and 2 fairly fragile cards in a format with maindeck abrupt decay. Seems 100% awful even if it did work. Sundial of the infinite actually does work with smokestack and is still too durdly.

  20. #3040
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by jugglervr View Post
    If it was a trigger (like shallow grave or flickerwisp), you could use it at an end step and it would last until the next. So you would be able to copy the smokestack once at opponent's end step, and then it will have its upkeep triggers on your turn. After that, it has soot counters so you can activate it at your end step from then on and you have The Abyss for permanents. All it takes is a boatload of mana and 2 fairly fragile cards in a format with maindeck abrupt decay. Seems 100% awful even if it did work. Sundial of the infinite actually does work with smokestack and is still too durdly.
    This isn't how the card works, so speculation how it would work is masturbation at best. The rules don't even work in this fictional scenario you're describing, so your post is basically pointless on all fronts.
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