Thank you, Zac. Awesome answers! I think I may be a Zacolyte now (?)
One matchup I'm a little unsure of for boarding is Miracles. What does that look like for you? And what's your overall strategy for the matchup? I know that their strategy is specifically to just counter our threats and not even care about our lock pieces until it's convenient.
Last edited by korstructure; 03-09-2018 at 08:08 PM.
I mostly agree on Karn, although making blockers can actually be valuable I'm not sure if he's any better than the swath of 4cmc CA engines we already have access to.
Damping sphere probably isn't good enough against tempo, but I like having another 2cmc option against combo. Deploying something underneath duress/thoughtseize/therapy/unmask is always good.
That is significant. Jace in particular is a very hard card to beat already. I'm not sure that card is playable though. If chandra is resolving against pile/miracles we're already in a good spot vs. a Jace. It definitely seems too conditional
Two red stompy decks in top 4 of GP madrid! Ensnaring bridge builds!
Unrelated question: is everyone playing 3 chrome mox or 4?
I haven't seen any lists running only 3.
Here're the GP lists:
PER NYSTRÖM'S RED PRISON
Planeswalker (5)
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
Creature (13)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
2 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
Sorcery (4)
4 Fiery Confluence
Artifact (14)
4 Chrome Mox
3 Trinisphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
Enchantment (4)
4 Blood Moon
Land (20)
12 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
Sideboard (15)
1 Trinisphere
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Sudden Shock
1 Sulfur Elemental
2 Volcanic Fallout
ALESSANDRO LIPPI'S RED PRISON
Planeswalker (4)
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Creature (14)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Hazoret the Fervent
Sorcery (4)
4 Fiery Confluence
Artifact (15)
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chrome Mox
Enchantment (4)
4 Blood Moon
Land (19)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain
Sideboard (15)
2 Abrade
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Volcanic Fallout
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
Wait, how would Grafdigger's Cage be good against DNT?
Against Show and Tell, I did find some old tech: Monkey Cage. I asked earlier in the thread about SNT and folks were saying it's not that bad of a matchup(?) - this hasn't been my experience. At the time, the only suggested tech was something like Pyroblast. Monkey Cage is both castable and Show-able. I know it's pretty narrow, but could it be OK in other matchups? Not sure which yet...
Thoughts on this?
Converted Mana Cost: 5
Types: Artifact
Card Text: When a creature enters the battlefield, sacrifice Monkey Cage and create X 2/2 green Monkey creature tokens, where X is that creature's converted mana cost.
Sorry, I was thinking Containment Priest against SnT and DnT. Grafdigger's Cage isn't right at all.
Monkey Cage might be Showable, but by the time it's able to trigger, it can't trigger off the Emrakul etc. that came into play with it.
EDIT: Cursed Totem should do ok against both elves and D&T, and only hits our Pia/Kiran and Hazoret.
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
Lesko is correct - Monkey Cage DOES work - it's the same as how Confusion in the Ranks triggers and exchanges control with an Omniscience when both are Shown in.
My question is... is this good enough to use for SB slots? Currently we might use narrow cards like Leylines, Faerie Macabres, or Sulfur Elementals - they aren't for the same matchups but I'm illustrating that we're willing to have quite narrow cards in our board. SNT is a particularly challenging and plentiful matchup.
Are there other matchups where Monkey Cage is reasonable? Is this too slow for Reanimator and Turbodepths/Lands? (Granted, we have 8 moon effects for the latter)
As for Cursed Totem - that's interesting. Is it actually good against DNT though? You're right that it's good against elves, though that is already an easy matchup for us. In fact, DNT has, at times, used Cursed Totem out of the board to shore up their Elves matchup.
The change in the Planeswalkers targeting rules makes Fiery Confluence a much weaker card. One of the reasons Confluence was so strong was that it destroyed Planeswalkers.
With this neutering, I think it makes sense to relegate a single Confluence to the board and replace its slot in the main deck with Burning Wish.
Wish let’s you tutor up Banefire vs Planeswalkers, Shattering Spree and Fiery Confluence vs artifacts and Fiery Confluence or Pyroclasm/Anger of the Gods against creatures.
But the real strength of Wish comes from its ability to Boil all islands and other such massive game winning effects.
To be fair he did state "and other such game winning effects," so Boiling Seas isn't the only reason to run BW.
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At the moment the slots I dedicate to the Wishboard are these:
1 Banefire
1 Boiling Seas
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Pyroclasm
1 Aftershock
1 Stone Rain
So I've played Burning Moon Stompy in the past and really disliked it. Sometimes you have to Chalice on 2 and sometimes it's hard to resolve two spells over the course of two turns (dodging discard and your opponent getting an extra turn to find countermagic).
HOWEVER, last night I played a four round event (going 2-2) with ZTurgeon's list and noticed that the future Planeswalker Redirection rule change will be challenging for us. I never realized how often I Confluenced to kill a planeswalker. Or how problematic planeswalkers are in general. As such, it's time to find a solution.
Two questions:
- Is this as big of an issue as I think? Or am I overstating the rule change's effect?
- Is switching to Burning Moon Stompy the best choice or are there other avenues?
I've always found difficulties in Stax/Stompy strategies facing off against PW'ers. You don't run any filtering to get around Jace's Fateseal, and you only drop 1 creature at a time vs Liliana's sac ability.
But Jace hates Goblin Rabblemaster.
Creatures have always been an effective route against PW'ers. Especially doodes that generate more doodes.
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
Either way, Fiery Confludence just doesn’t cut it anymore to maindeck 4 if it’s not able to kill Planeswalkers. It’s an now an overpriced pyroclasm and an overpriced shattering spree, which is useful against some decks but will be a dead draw against others.
The decision is whether to play 4 more creatures in its place, or whether to swap it with Burning Wish so as to retain the same versatility.
PS: I usually find it’s best to play both Chalices at 1 where chalice matters a lot before going to a chalice at 2. That’s because any deck that is hurt by chalice at 1 plays abrupt decay, bounce or artifact destruction. So it’s not as big a deal that Burning Wish and Sorcerors Spyglass cost two mana.
Last edited by Captain Hammer; 03-21-2018 at 05:00 PM.
Not only will Fiery Confluence be weakened but so will Chandra, Torch of Defiance. With reduced ability to kill Planeswalkers, the deck will become weaker by at least a few percentage points. If we were a top tier deck this wouldn't be an issue, but it feels like kicking a dog while it's down. I expressed my concern to Wizards and I hope you will too, politely.
I find it odd that people aren't talking about Blood Sun. I've been enjoying it more than Magus of the Moon. Hope you'll try it. It makes cards like Hazoret and Ensnaring Bridge slightly less good and puts pressure to play fewer 2RR spells in the deck, as it's often easier to get 4R.
The reasons I like Blood Sun: I feel it improves the 4c Control matchup by keeping them off Kologhan's Command mana. With Trinisphere in play it's often a soft lock. And I feel it improves matchups that don't care about Blood Moon, such as Burn.
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