[Deck] Dragon Stompy

[ForlornEgoist]

Yep. Albeit I made some pretty silly suggestions just a post ago, realistically speaking Phyrexian Metamorph is probably the best answer to any cheated cretures like Emmy or Prog.

I still like Noetic Scales though. ^~^
Forlorn Egoist

[Wereodile]

I think Chaos Warp is worth considering for SB space. It works as a solution to Moat but also can take out Planeswalkers, Equipment or Creatures.

I'd consider Sulfur Elemental before Defender of Chaos. Nuking Mother of Runes and Lingering Souls seems like a bigger perk than First Strike.

Do you think running a mix of Chaos Warp and Sulfur Elemental is worth siding in versus just running Anarchy?

Anarchy does everything Sulfur Elemental can do aside from leaving a body behind but Chaos Warp can hit a lot of non-white permanents like JTMS so may warrant some testing.

[Octopusman]

Yep. Albeit I made some pretty silly suggestions just a post ago, realistically speaking Phyrexian Metamorph is probably the best answer to any cheated cretures like Emmy or Prog.

I still like Noetic Scales though. ^~^
Forlorn Egoist

Scales is funny. Especially in a hellbent list.

[Zupponn]

Do you think running a mix of Chaos Warp and Sulfur Elemental is worth siding in versus just running Anarchy?

Anarchy does everything Sulfur Elemental can do aside from leaving a body behind but Chaos Warp can hit a lot of non-white permanents like JTMS so may warrant some testing.

Anarchy is actually better than the Elemental as it can kill scary white fatties that the Elemental can't along with enchantments. Also, I've never really had many problems with JTMS as he dies from bouncing my creature 3 times or I kill him with 1 attack. He's mainly stall material for the opponent.

I've actually been thinking that the more removal we run, the better. How realistically can we race most decks in the format right now? I'm really liking having 4x Jitte and 4x FTK maindeck against tougher popular matchups like Maverick and Stoneblade. Both cards help us win those crucial creature wars.

[ForlornEgoist]

Well, I'm just two weeks away from my local Starcity Legacy IQ and I've started some rampant brainstorming. The meta has shifted to Maverick/UW Stoneblade/UR Delver and, although my build has certainly been vastly improved with the latest changes to my deck, I am still hesitant to consider them good MU's. I've adapted my Rock deck to deal with Stoneforge decks (so a friend can play) but I'm still figuring out what might work for my deck.

Firstly, I'm considering removing/reducing my Moon count down to 5. As an avid and old school DS player I am somewhat iffy on dropping my Moon count below 6, however looking at the DTB right now none of them, honestly, get heavily punished by a Moon effect. Maverick is probably the most adversly affected as it runs Waste/Toolbox lands however it runs Hierarch and/or Birds to aid in color fixing. UW Stoneblade can easily fall back on basics, and UR Delver really only needs 2 Islands, and even shutting off the blue from their Volcanics still gives them the red they need for burn.
TBH since I'm running Lodestone + 3sphere I'm not necessarily losing hate, just prioritizing it.

In the empty slots of those Moons (+ my single Akroma, Angel of Fury) I'm considering MDing my 3 Shattering Spree. I know, at first sight Revoker seems like a better option, however I'm looking for utility that assumes the worst for me and isn't going to die to removal. Spree is highly relevant MD as most of the decks I'll face run the Stoneforge toolbox, and this way I always have an answer to the biggest threat against the deck.

Secondly, I'm honestly considering playtesting Combust. Its a nice, uncounterable way to kill off Delvers and even nix Mom/Stoneforge and possibly KotR + it has the added benefit of instant speed. If I'm running Spree this most likely will be SB material as I don't want to overload the MD with non-creatures. Still, more and more this card is beginning to interest me.

Well, I just wanted to stop by with these two thought points before I head out for errands.

Forlorn Egoist

[Octopusman]

Mostly @Egoist: I'm interested to hear how artifact hate main works out for you.

I hate hoping to draw into something. Drawing into shattering sprees or holding them for when it's clutch to have it is great too. I guess after its dead vs delver you can side them out for combust.

I'm a huge fan of combust. I actually think there was some mention of it in a format thread but I think it was mostly in jest. I however don't think it's a joke. It does us great vs a bunch of decks that matter. Also, you might have revoker for birds/hierarch.

I still wish I got a chance to test out my Spinal Villains. :)
By the time Merkfolk has game again, it might be off the back of a tribal merfolk planeswalker or some crap.


At least we don't have to worry about ooze (though easily answered with revoker). What concerns me is Qasali Pridemage.
True, a lot of people don't have experience playing against Dragon Stompy (which serves us doubly well when moons are dropped), but a Qasali on a much needed chrome mox can be very bad in tandem with wasteland. Can you tell I'm afraid of wasteland?
Stifle an wasteland always come and go but for Dragon Stompy to be best I needs a meta with lots of non-basics and as little wasteland as possible. Most folks just want to know if the format is ready to be molested by moons at the moment.


Does anyone have experience trying to play a splash? I'm curious to know.
It seems like suicide with sol lands and moons but I still like to hear experiences and what color.

It's a sad day to drop to do few moons but you make an excellent point about delver. Adding sprees main isn't any worse than those cards being moons against them IMO.
I play UR delver and chalice is a beating. Wait, a BEATING (fixt).
I also play UW and think that sprees are better than revoker even though it lowers threat density. Too many answers out there and you can rely on having chalice to stop swords to plowshares on revoker naming stoneforge, swords, batterskull etc.
The only, rare, case I can think of is chumping a batterskull with a hellbent raiders or LoSP and then dropping revoker on PancakeBatterskull before they can unsummon it.

Tell us your results. Don't forget to side in revokers vs. storm.
Pray for no weird shit that catches you off guard. Bile urchin or nomads en kor can be a random beating.

I swear by revoker (especially when most opponents can tutor for artifact hate whenever they want or they're holding it) but I'm replacing it with things to answer legendary fatties. It's not like they're goin to name blue with Iona.
I think I can free up a few more slots. I am thinking of going up to two jitte (on top of sowp x 2). I just can't bring myself to cut any priests since they are sooooooo tempo goodness.
I wish magnetic theft made you the controller of the equipment. It would be a whole different world wouldn't it?

I like your like I thinking but I'm not sure about sprees effectiveness vs maverick or delver. You can blow them out with combusts g2 and 3 but... Hmm. Hope you get lots of moons vs maverick. Still running revoker in the side? No extra moons in the side it seems.

So, combust, grave hate? Anarchy? Revokers? What is your board going to look like?
Your list is more mud so I'm worried about people Qasali'ing you all day long. I think you should consider revoke main considering mavericks popularity. It also hurts stone blade but
That means you worst matchup is deliver (in DTB) which gets randomly hosed by chalice and you can side in combust for delivers. Blasts for snapcasters?


Sorry if I contradicted myself. I'm a notorious devils advocate and it gets worse when I drink. Best to consider all sides when deck building though, obviously.

[ForlornEgoist]

Well, I'm not denying that Revokers wouldn't be amazing MD, especially considering the pro-arguments I made for Spree MD against equipment, but I honestly don't have room MD for Revokers. My creature base is effectively:


4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Etched Champion
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Moltensteel Dragon

If I weren't leaning more towards a MUD build I'd throw them in the Champion slot in a second, however one of the primary reasons I've switched to the MUD-build of our deck is specifically to abuse Etched Champion as well as give myself a stronger mid-late game. Revoker, for me, has always been most useful as a SB card as there are dozens of instances when I never even opted for him, even against MU's like Maverick where you'd think he'd necessary.

As far as my SB goes I'm still fiddling around with it. As of late I've been noticing a growing trend in Solidarity/Dredge decks. While DS is a fairly good anti-combo deck, at least as far as Dredge is concerned I'm still worried. Reducing my Moon count means I'll be losing my most devastating answer against them (as it denies them their ability to cast spells beyond DR).

Yeah, I'll agree, Qasali has always been one of the most annoying creatures to deal with, however, the benefit of having a more MUD-style DS deck is I have so many more relevant artifact targets. Kill the Lodestone? Fine, I still have Chalice, 3sphere, or equipment. Kill the equipment? Okay, enjoy not being able to cast spells. Etc. Etc. Even my entire creature base is, essentially, artifacts, so I'll have a better chance that regular builds of keeping some artifact which is relevant to me.

For the most part I'm content with the MD (still waiting to order the Opals) so all that is left is to playtest Combust and then fiddle with the numbers. Thusly, here is what I'm considering:


1 Blood Moon
3 Combust
3 Anarchy
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Pyroblast

Since I'm MDing my Sprees I might decide to lose either a Revoker or an Anarchy for that 2nd Moon. I'm loathe to lose a nice board clear like Anarchy however as I'm running a fair amount of Equipment, Champion, + Combust have a board reset seems less needed, particularly since I'm not expecting Enchantress or Prog. which is what I originally had planned for them.
On this note I may even consider taking out a single Pyroblast since I might be running the Combust so being able to counter will be less relevant if I have an uncounterable kill spell.

Well, I'll be sure to give you updates on how my playtesting. Btb, not that anyone really cares but I am well on my way to foil out my entire DS deck. All thats really left is the Magus', Simians, Lodestones, and the Chalices. >:)

ForlornEgoist

[Octopusman]

No gravehate in the board? Oversight? I know you have sprees which you could stack trough chalice but I'm not a fan of relic of progenitus with this deck since it can randomly screw your hellbent if you run that.
I like your creature base. Glad you're feeling the power of etched champion. I think he card is underrated since it plays offense and defense both really well.
I would be tempted to throw a sowp on it but my list is t as muddy.

How do you typically "turn on" the mox opals? What first couple turn plays do you usually make and when does metalcraft occur? Just curious since getting 3 mana on turn 1 is standard (not for you?) I don't see mox being active till turn 2. Am I missing something?
I guess turn 1 chalice for 1 or jitte (maybe - since you generally might not want jitte turn 1) if you're lucky and then an artifact land and then mox for 4 mana on turn 2? Sounds iffy since this requires getting 1 of a 4 of like 3 cards.

Never played opal so pardon my ignorance.

Also, when I read you don't being in revoker for maverick I mouthed "you're doing it wrong". Just my perspective. Revoker is molestation vs maverick.

[ForlornEgoist]

In regards to playing Opal, yes, I generally don't get it active until Turn 2. Like I've discussed a huge weakness of this decks core is our weakness in mid and late game scenarios. This, I consider, is the reason I discard this deck in favor of other decks when contemplating tournament choices. I've always desired to make DS a deck I can take into tourneys without fear of just sacrificing my chances to win, so the MUD-style is my attempt to make it more stalwart in adversity. With my build I'm sacrificing that extra turn of speed (which has come back to bit me in the ass when I can drop a T1 lock piece) but overall its improved my durability. Lock pieces are still relevant regardless if they're dropped T1 or not.
Yeah, a T1 Chalice @ 1 can prevent a mom, a Thoughtseize, a cantrip, etc. however even if you drop it T2 its still negating all those 1cc cards which the opponent relies on. Don't misunderstand me when I say that its not relevant to drop a lock piece on T1. I'm not even going to deny there have been many instances where I would've had life much easier had I dropped a lock earlier. However, this build is my decision to sacrifice some acceleration in favor of a less greedy board position that ultimately gives me a better chance to compete against the DTB's. Will this build be for every DS player? I highly doubt it. Frankly, there are still countless times where I argue with myself about how many times I relied on that T1 Chrome Mox to give me the necessary acceleration. But thats just it, I guess. I started to dislike how reliant I was beginning to rely on that Mox, and the fact that my build was already starting to resemble a MUD deck more and more gave me less and less Red cards to Imprint. I guess I'm quite conflicted as to my preference at the moment, but thus far I can definitely say MUD-style is definitely worth testing for people.

As far as Revoker goes I think my primary issue is that I was never good at SBing against Maverick. Anarchy, Shattering Spree, and Phyrexian Revoker are all relevant against them. For this MU I was always so horrible at deciding what to SB in and what to take out so sometimes I overshot Revoker in favor of the Sprees and Anarchy's. I fully acknowledge how many relevant targets Revoker has, I'm just bad at Sbing. DS is honestly the hardest deck for me to SB with as I am still grasping what is the most relevant. I have it so much easier with Enchantress and Rock. ^^'

ForlornEgoist

[Esper3k]

Any of you guys give Cursed Totem some consideration to help against Maverick?

[ForlornEgoist]

I've actually never given Cursed Totem consideration, tbh, probably because it shuts off Lord of Shatterskull Pass/Arc Slogger, Moltensteel Dragon and Rakdos Pit Dragon.

That having been said, of those 3 creatures Moltensteel is probably the most heavily played and tbh firebreathing isn't that amazingly relevant. Contrariwise, Totem disables Mom/KotR/Stoneforge/Hierarch/Birds/Qasali so this card alone shuts off every creature in their deck, not to mention all of the other MU's it could be relevant (of which I won't name as Maverick's creatures are the most relevant of the DTB).

Interesting.... albeit I'm already content with my 75 to dealing with the DTB Totem definitely intrigues me...

Forlorn Egoist

[Esper3k]

Yeah, I just remembered it being looked at by other decks a long time ago, but never went anywhere, but now Maverick decks are running Linvala as a similar card for the mirror, maybe it was time to revisit it.

[Octopusman]

Don't forget it also stops ooze.

I just can't find space for totem.

[ForlornEgoist]

Totem won't fit into my 75 as my MUD-build is much more greedy with its card count, not to mention I've already Metagamed the card choices to dealing with Delver and Stoneforge, however I don't think Totem would be unreasonable for you.

I've already argued in several posts above how Moon is probably your most subpar choice for a lock condition in the current meta. Perhaps you can run just 5-6 Moons and use the remaining 2-3 slots for the Totem. At the very least the card is definitely worth testing.

Forlorn Egoist

[Octopusman]

I was excited when I heard there was a 2CMC red walker. Now I'm not excited. Boo hoo.

[ivanpei]

It's actually a really fast clock if you want to play a full on mana screw version with tanglewire, trini and moons. T1 seething song into a screw piece plus the new walker seems evil. But of course its very conditional. Otherwise, it's pretty crap.

[ForlornEgoist]

Okay, y'all, Red is starting to get some love in Avacyn Restored. Here are the 2 current cards which may have some viability in DS:

Tibalt, the Fiend Blooded RR
Planesewalker
+ 1: Draw a card and then discard a card at random.
-4: Tibalt deals damage to target player equal to the number of cards in their hand.
-6: Gain control of all creatures until end of turn. They have haste. Sacrifice them at the end of turn.
2

Bonfire of the Damned XXR
Sorcery
Bonfire of the Damned deals X damage to target player and all creatures they control.
Miracle XR (You may play Bonfire for its Miracle cost when you draw it if it was the first card you drew this turn).

I'm not sure how I feel the planeswalker. The RR is still annoying to cast for us. His +1 ability actually seems relevant to us as we're always hungry for more cards. His -2 seems weakened by this heavily aggro meta that looks to empty its hands asap. Realistically we'll never get him up to his -6.

As far as Bonfire goes I'm actually quite joyful at the possibilities. With the amount of mana we can ramp from Sol lands, assuming we cast it for the Miracle, We can reasonably do 5+ damage to an opponent/all creatures they control. Obviously this assumes we topdeck it, but lets face it, Dragon Stompy is already a topdeck-deck.

Based on initial thoughts I think these cards will be cast into the list of cards that just barely get cut from competitive Dragon Stompy (don't you DARE say that was an oxymoron :P). Much playtesting is required.

Forlorn Egoist

[Octopusman]

assuming we cast it for the Miracle

Which is why it's crap. We have no fixing.
Also in regards to the walker. It's too slow and we can't risk losing cards we need since we already have no draw.

Seems awful!

[ForlornEgoist]

@ Octopus:

Yeah.... I honestly think both cards are worthless. I'm well aware of their flaws and very much doubt they'll add anything to our deck. However, at each and every set release I always do my best to try and debate card choices, esp. when Dragon Stompy is concerned, in the hopes that red will get that meta-changing card like Green with 'Goyf or Blue with Jace 2.0/Mental Misstep. Damn you, WotC. Show Red some love, please. =(

EDIT: OMG, Octopus, I just now realized your avatar has the Majora's Mask/Moon eyes. Lol, its a good think I play Magic, a game in which observation is important. :p
Forlorn Egoist

[Gammadoom]

Which is why it's crap. We have no fixing.
Also in regards to the walker. It's too slow and we can't risk losing cards we need since we already have no draw.

Seems awful!

Crystal Ball warrented some consideration at one point. Seems like a list that ran it might be able to run a couple of these.