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Thread: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

  1. #861
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Gotcha. I'd play SoLS then. The most common removal spells in the format are Swords to Plowshares and Lightning Bolt. Having a SoLS on one of your guys will protect them from both if you don't have a Chalice @ 1 out.

  2. #862

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Esper3k View Post
    Gotcha. I'd play SoLS then. The most common removal spells in the format are Swords to Plowshares and Lightning Bolt. Having a SoLS on one of your guys will protect them from both if you don't have a Chalice @ 1 out.
    Thanks for tip very true, just goyfs - knights will be a bitch again :(

  3. #863
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    I'm not sure why KotH is deemed bad in this deck. He provides a layer of consistency, as well as pressure and the off-acceleration that you would want. In the list I ran 18 months ago, he seemed to contribute to a number of the wins the deck was able to get. This was usually in conjunction with Moon effects.
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  4. #864
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    I was fine with Koth as well. I also liked Revokers since it gave you something other at Chalice @ 1 to play on T1 when you open with a Sol land but not another T1 mana source.

    On top of that, Revoker naming Hierarch makes your Blood Moons a lot nastier against Maverick.

  5. #865
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    In regards to Koth I think it can be broken down simply that he isn't a priority threat. In your opening 7 how often do you really give him first picks in terms of hate? Moon or CotV are typically first selections followed either by a second lock or a series of creature threats. Koth, in my experience, is typically one of my last selections for cards to use.
    Not only this, he doesn't have that auto-target that Liliana or Jace have nor does he immediately affect the board state. This means that if the opponent is far ahead of you in tempo or threats Koth is a moot card to be cast. Extra aggro isn't necessarily bad, but when the opponent is sitting with a pumped up KotR/Ooze or a Reanimated/Cheated creature, heck, even a mass of tokens (Dredge/Miracle) then suddenly getting an extra creature is useless and can even be a liability as it gives the opponent the ability to kill off your already unstable manabase.
    His second ability ultimately only helps when you have an outlet such as RPD to pump the mana into, and even then its dependant on you having more than 1 Mountain which doesn't always happen when you need it.
    His third ability is quite powerful for us as it resolves one of our prominent issues of lack-of-removal however the weaknesses of his first two abilities, the fact that they do nothing to affect the board state or give you extra utility, means that you need to keep Koth alive for several turns. If you're desperate to get his ability to pull yourself out of a pit, its doubtful the opponent will let him live 3 turns, and if you're ahead of the opponent then his ability is win-more.

    If hes won games for you, congratulations. I'm sure thats more than many of us can say, but frankly Koth ultimately is a card that does little to resolve any of our decks primary weaknesses, nor does he shore up bad MU or improve other MU. Hes a cute card, particularly in those rare instances when you ROFLstomp an opponent with him, but hes just not strong enough to warrant a position IMO.

    Forlorn Egoist
    How to play Belcher:
    Step 1) Draw 7 cards.
    Step 2) Throw said 7 cards onto the table while making a "BLAH!" sound.
    Step 3) Hold up hands quizically and ask: "Do I win?"

    Decks
    Enchantress
    Dragon Stompy
    Rock
    UG Madness/Thresh (Pauper)

  6. #866

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Regarding KoTH,

    I must say I totally agree with Forlorn. He has been usefull a few times.
    But this has also been when I already was winning, had my locks down and happily stomping them to death.
    He however has never changed a loosing game to a win. If you play him solo vs any creature he will just die / slowly die and you will never get that emblem up.
    I removed him from my deck because of this.

    The only planeswalker that has been somewhat usefull in the past (for me) is: [Chandra Ablaze] her +1 ability can be nice if you run her in a hellbend version + Seething Song. Her -2 ability can be usefull if your creatures got removed or your out of fuel. Never was able to cast her -7 ability. But also this card was situational and i just ran 1 for funsies. But she has also been removed from my deck.

    What do you guys think of [karn] casting the 7 mana can be done with Seething song. He basicly gives us 2 swords - or discard

  7. #867
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    I don't think Karn is terrible (better than the Chandras, imo).

    7 seems a little much, but if you can cast him, I think he'd be pretty nasty.

  8. #868
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    I doubt Karn is realistic for this deck. Period. I simply say that because 7 mana is beyond annoying to cast. As it stands many builds can barely support the 5 mana necessary for Slogger, Kazuul, or Covetous, let alone the 6 for a Chandra or 7 for a Karn. Yeah, if the game plays out to the mid-late game he'd be alright, but our deck hates dragging a game out. We WANT to end the game as soon as possible because our deck only becomes weaker the longer the game plays out.

    Even my original build which focused on a stronger midgame worked on keeping my highest creatures costing around 4 (Lodestone, Moltensteel, etc.). Throwing in cards to help you later in the game become a self-fulfilling prophecy because now you've remove cards that are strongest in the early game, forcing your deck to try and survive until you draw that 1 card you added.

    Karn is just too expensive to be useful.

    Forlorn Egoist
    How to play Belcher:
    Step 1) Draw 7 cards.
    Step 2) Throw said 7 cards onto the table while making a "BLAH!" sound.
    Step 3) Hold up hands quizically and ask: "Do I win?"

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    Enchantress
    Dragon Stompy
    Rock
    UG Madness/Thresh (Pauper)

  9. #869

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    How has this deck been fairing in the current meta game? With all the mono-color (elves, merfolk, goblins, DnT) and duo-color (maverick, uw stoneblade, uw miracle) decks, it seems many decks can simply dodge our moon effects quite effectively. Still, this deck looks very fun, so I want to give it a shot. Any suggestions are welcome. This is my current setup.

    // Mana
    10 Snow-Covered Mountain
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Ancient Tomb

    // Beats (Werewolves)
    4 Kruin Outlaw
    4 Instigator Gang
    4 Hanweir Watchkeep

    // Beats + Removal
    4 Sulfur Elemental
    4 Flametongue Kavu

    // Disruption
    4 Magus of the Moon
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Damping Matrix
    3 Blood Moon

    Damping Matrix seems pretty amazing. It harasses KotR, Mom, Ooze, Jitte, Batterskull, Top, Stoneforge, Griselbrand, Pridemage, MUD.dec, and a bunch of random stuff. Trinisphere is still good, of course, just not sure if that's what Dragon Stompy needs right now. Definitely SB material against combo and RUG Delver.

    Since I am using Damping Matrix, the Hellbent route seemed silly, so I opted to use the next best thing: Werewolves! Werewolves are not bad, just a tad inconsistent. I may try to fit in Taurean Mauler or Pyrostatic Pillar to discourage people from casting spells.

    I also wanted some form of removal. I decided to go for Flametongue Kavu and Sulfur Elemental. Sulfur Elemental can kill Mom, Thalia, and tokens, so he seems relavent. Plus, I can pull combat shenanigans with Flash. Flametongue Kavu deals four damage, just enough for Batterskull. With Damping Matrix, Batterskull becomes useless.

    So yes, this is my current list and is subjected to change. Any suggestions are welcome. I am not terribly excited about Sulfur Elemental in the MD, but he fits perfectly in the SB.

  10. #870
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Here's something along the lines of what I would run now that we've been given a few goodies:

    4x Chalice of the Void
    4x Chrome Mox
    3x Trinisphere
    4x Flametongue Kavu
    4x Magus of the Moon
    4x Rakdos Pit Dragon
    4x Simian Spirit Guide
    3x Thundermaw Hellkite
    3x Blood Moon
    4x Seething Song
    4x Bonfire of the Damned
    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x City of Traitors
    11x Mountain

    Sideboard:
    3x Ratchet Bomb
    2x Relic of Progenitus
    2x Tormod's Crypt
    4x Phyrexian Revoker
    4x Anarchy

    I think that Thundermaw Hellkite takes the place that Arc-Slogger or Covetous Dragon had in the old versions. And along with Bonfire of the Damned it's just too good not to run. I like the look of the deck, but only have playtested it a little bit, so numbers might be off. I really like it though, and feel like it's the way to go in the future.

  11. #871

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    I'd like to hear how this deck is performing. Its a blast to play...in goldfishing. Zuppon, why not run Moltensteel Dragon or Instigator Gang in place of Rakdos Pit Dragon? Instigator Gang seems like he'd shine in this sort of deck. Also, Zuppon, have you considered -2 Bonfire +2 Sword of Fire and Ice?

  12. #872
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    So I went with a MichaelP (from Mtgsalvation forums) variant of the Dragon Stompy deck, with some changes I may discuss now, after the deck:

    Creatures 17
    4 magus of the moon
    4 simian spirit guide
    4 thundermaw hellkite
    3 moltensteel dragon
    1 Lord of Shatterskull Pass
    1 jaya ballard, task mage
    Artifacts: 12
    4 chalice of the void
    4 trinisphere
    4 chrome mox
    Other Spells: 10
    1 Koth of the Hammer
    4 seething song
    1 pillage
    4 stone rain
    Enchantments: 3
    3 blood moon
    Lands: 18
    4 ancient tomb
    4 city of traitors
    10 mountain
    Sideboard:
    2 pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Koth of the hammer
    2 phyrexian revoker
    2 pyrokinesis
    2 Umezawa's Jitte
    3 faerie macabre
    2 anarchy

    Changes I did to the MichaelP List:
    -3 Pillage
    3 Stone Rain
    This was due to availability and avoiding the RR requirement: I only had 1 Pillage but on testing it was hard to get the RR for the Pillage
    -1 Jaya Ballard
    1 Lord of Shaterskull Pass
    This is also to avoid the RR, although now I see it was a failure, the lord is not what I expected it to be.
    -1 Moltensteel Dragon
    1 Koth of the Hammer
    I know that the dragon ends the game pretty quickly also, but I find Koth harder to kill, and I already added a "body" to my team with the change above. The main reason for the change was to take out an artifact and maybe add something more "stampable" to use for the Chrome Mox, if needed. Sincerely, I had this issue during the tournament also.

    Side changes were availability of Revokers and I thought a Koth would be awesome Vs control. I was wrong, you don't need that, you need things that go faster, not Late Game. If you get to Late Game, you've lost anyway.

    Performance

    I decided to run this deck because is (accept it) more "brainless" that most of the decks that have a chance against combo. I wanted to kill Combo and Canadian, so I chose this deck. I ended 3-2, losing only to 2 TOP8'ers (they battled in Top8 and one got to finals, where he conceeded).

    R1: 2-0 Canadian.
    It was an "easy" win as I started 2nd both games but I could drop a Chalice G1 and a Trini G2 that gave me the games. In G2, I dropped the Chalice T1, he does pierce, I go Simian+REB, he goes Daze and I discard another simian to pay for it. Thank god he didn't have anything else.
    R2: 0-2 Zombardment:
    He started with Fetch>Swamp>Inquision, taking out my only red in my hand (Simian) so I had to stamp a Dragon in the Chrome mox in order to play the newly drawn Magus. He played dudes that kept taking my lives away and when I played the Moltensteel he had removal for it. I saw no oterh wincons.
    G2, almost the same, no wincons for me, so I lost
    R3: 2-1 Canadian:
    If you drop a Chalice to Canadian, there's a good chance of winning. I did G1 and a Blood Moon T1 in G3, and lost G2 to all the agression possible.
    R4: 0-2 Bant:
    I can be quick here: T1 Chalice? FOW. T2 Trinity: Pierce. Noble and Reliquary did it fast GG. G2: Blood Moon T1? FoW. T2 Trinisphere? Pierce. Vendillion ended shortly after.
    R5: 2-0 Reanimator:
    Chalice at 1 and Trini shortly after can punish a lot. Then the Moltensteel ended the game quickly. G2: Magus did the job for me.

    BEST:
    - Winning Combo and Canadian, the purpose of the Deck
    - Attacking with a Moltensteel with me at 12 and him at 15 and kill him that turn (4+5 (seething)+1(R)+5 (10 life)).
    - Playing a deck that didn't punish my brain that much.

    WORST:
    - Waiting for the winning cards to arrive
    - The bad feeling of facing Bant and losing without options.
    - Mulligans: 3 to 6 and 1 to 5 in 11 games (3/11 + 1/11) because of mana shortage (shuffling better may help)

    I don't know if there's a way of bypassing the losses, maybe there's one, maybe I should play more Vs Control, but I had that feeling of "C'mon, you have 4 in there, give one to me noooow" too many times. I may be too used to play blue :P

    Tips and tricks will be welcome, as always.


    JMLL
    A PRO doesn't draw, he tutors every turn.

    JMLL

  13. #873

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    JMML, are you saying that in the future you would remove Lord of Shatterskull Pass etc.?

    We have Sword of Fire and Ice for carddraw. If you run something like Zupponn, you could use 2 Bonfire of the Damned and 2 Reforge the Soul.

  14. #874
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by JMLL View Post
    Report
    Thanks for the report JMLL!
    Sounded like top decking a Bonfire of the Damned would have helped against Bant. How useful was Stone Rain? Would you replace them with Pillage or something else?

    Would you change or add to the 3 pieces of gravehate in the sideboard?
    What sideboard cards did well?
    What would you change about your board?

  15. #875
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    i took this to like 40th something place at scg cincy this weekend. it's not really stompy, but i figured it would be worth the post and give ya guys something to discuss.

    4 Emrakul the Aeons Torn
    3 Ulamog the Infinite Gyre
    4 Blightsteel Colossus
    3 Inferno Titan
    4 Simian Spirit Guide

    4 Sneak Attack
    3 Through the Breach
    2 Pyromancy
    4 Seething Song
    2 Blood Moon
    4 Chalice of the void
    1 Lotus Petal

    4 City of Traitors
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Sandstone Needle
    10 Mountain

    Sideboard
    3 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Through the Breach
    1 Jaya Ballard Taxe Mage
    1 Ravenous Trap
    2 Blood Moon
    3 Trinisphere
    2 Pyroclasm

  16. #876
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    @xdavis:

    Wow.... that's pretty much the standard Mono-Red SA list that was run over 6 years ago (minus the newer creatures, of course).

    I'm glad you did a great report (esp. with a Mono R list which is difficult to do in this meta) however, this is the wrong place to post your list. Although you use similar control elements your deck archetype is combo and your game plan is ultimately much different than ours.

    I'm pretty sure there's a Mono-Red thread several pages back, otherwise you might consider posting this in the UR Sneaky Show thread.

    Forlorn Egoist
    How to play Belcher:
    Step 1) Draw 7 cards.
    Step 2) Throw said 7 cards onto the table while making a "BLAH!" sound.
    Step 3) Hold up hands quizically and ask: "Do I win?"

    Decks
    Enchantress
    Dragon Stompy
    Rock
    UG Madness/Thresh (Pauper)

  17. #877

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Speaking about cross-building, checking MUD thread some Godo lists with maindeck Magus started to look to me as some kind of hybrid with Dragon Stompy, so I thoght that it would be interesting to try the other way around, starting with a Dragon Stompy base and changing Songs with permanent sources, max Koths as accelerators/recurring threats and play high-end creatures. I have done little testing, but so far it has the same consistence issues every Stompy list usually faces, but an unanswered Godo or a recurring Batterskull is usually better than conditional hellbent/werewolf creatures or getting a threat killed and waiting for more.

    4x Chalice of the Void
    4x Magus of the Moon
    3x Blood Moon
    3x Trinisphere

    4x Simian Spirit Guide
    4x Chrome Mox
    4x Grim Monolith/Thran Dynamo
    4x Koth of the Hammer

    4x Godo, Bandit Warlord
    3x Batterskull
    1x Sword of Fire and Ice
    4x Steel Hellkite/Wurmcoil Engine/Moltensteel Dragon/Thundermaw Hellkite

    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x City of Traitors
    6-10x Mountain
    0-4x Cavern of Souls (human->Godo and Magus)

    What do you think?

  18. #878
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Entromancer View Post
    JMML, are you saying that in the future you would remove Lord of Shatterskull Pass etc.?
    Yes, sure. I don't feel like it's been a great card. Imho, this deck plays a control game T1-T2 and then flips into a aggro deck and tries to run as hell before the opponent has answers to our threats. The problem is that the opponent may have something on the table when you proceed to lock the game, and you need a way to remove it before winning.
    The Lord doesn't do it, it does not help you come back. We need another card to put preassure or defend ourselves.
    Out of the bat, Flametongue Kavu may be a real option eventhough you need something to kill on the board or it fires itself. A Mox can be a good place for it if it doesn't fit the board.

    Quote Originally Posted by Entromancer View Post
    We have Sword of Fire and Ice for carddraw. If you run something like Zupponn, you could use 2 Bonfire of the Damned and 2 Reforge the Soul.
    Zupponn? Sorry I didn't find this card although I searched for it. The Sword of F&I acts as a carddraw and removal, soemthing you REALLY need. The issue is: Where do I attach it to? I'm already light on creatures. If Godo was cheaper, but CMC 6 is too much.
    Talking about Bonfire, it's not a bad option at all, it does what I need it to do, mainly destroy his creatures and deal a bit of damage. Maybe I should try to use it, but beware that I need a PERMANENT wincon in order to win... Reforge may be what I need to refill my hand. I can use it to stamp it on a Mox if I get it Mainhand or turns 1-2. Not a bad idea, needs some study.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Thanks for the report JMLL!
    Sounded like top decking a Bonfire of the Damned would have helped against Bant. How useful was Stone Rain? Would you replace them with Pillage or something else?
    As posted above, the miracle cards may be good, but I need to make room for them AND keep putting preassure.
    Stone Rain was good in the main deck. I didn't have any issue playing it and it made my some decks play counters in order to save their lands from them, so I could easily play other lock pieces. I thought it was a bad G2 play, as I had other cards outside that could fit more into the strategy (REBs, Revoker/Jitte against Zombardment...). Although the REBs were ace, the other cards were not that good, and a Stone rain would have won me that game as I could have destroyed his lonely swamp and let him out of colour. Maybe I sided badly, but I'm sure I need something to push for the win after I played my locks. Pillage wasn't needed for me, I didn't want to destroy an artifact and usually you don't need to. The most annoying one can be a Revoker that stops your Moxes, but you'll be screwed anyway. Maybe an Ingot Chewer, Oxidda Scrapmelter or a Battlehorn may o the job for you and put a body onto the ground so you can slam the opponent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Would you change or add to the 3 pieces of gravehate in the sideboard?
    What sideboard cards did well?
    What would you change about your board?
    For me, the 3 pieces of GY hate were alright and I wouldn't add more. I played them Vs Reanimator and win G2 easily. It's hard to counter that and it avoids your lock pieces. If you want to add a 4th one feel free, but it's not needed in my meta.
    REBs did surprisingly well, More that I expected, and I would add the 4th for sure. Revokers were weak, 2/1 when I needed removal, and I didn't draw into Jitte or Pyrokinesis, so I don't know if they're good or not. The Koth in the side was out all day long, useless card.
    Speaking of locks and similar stuff, Defense Grid may shut up a Blue Deck, or force a counter for it (we don't use cards in other turns anyway). This, with a form of removal would be the improvements I suggest, probably the Bonfire.

    Thanks for the feedback, let's think about improvements!


    JMLL
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  19. #879
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by JMLL View Post
    Zupponn? Sorry I didn't find this card although I searched for it.
    This made me laugh =)
    Zupponn

    I agree with your assessment about the deck's need for a threat. I prefer the hellbent version of this deck but even that needs something more.
    I feel that Bonfire of the Damned is exactly what the deck needed to keep up with aggro strategies. I'm just waiting for it to drop to the $20-25 range before getting a playset...

  20. #880
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    This made me laugh =)
    Zupponn
    I'm a card now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Entromancer View Post
    I'd like to hear how this deck is performing. Its a blast to play...in goldfishing. Zuppon, why not run Moltensteel Dragon or Instigator Gang in place of Rakdos Pit Dragon? Instigator Gang seems like he'd shine in this sort of deck. Also, Zuppon, have you considered -2 Bonfire +2 Sword of Fire and Ice?
    Instigator Gang has been tried before and I believe that we've come to the decision that he's just too inconsistent for this deck that already lacks consistency. As for Moltensteel, I've just never liked him. Other people like him, but RPD has won too many games for me to just toss him aside. I've never been unhappy about playing RPD, but I have been unhappy about playing Moltensteel.

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