[Deck] Dragon Stompy

[Arsenal]

The problem is that SoFaF rewards you for having a full grip of cards to play with your newly available mana. Dragon Stompy will not be able to fully take advantage of the "untap all your lands" effect as Dragon Stompy unloads it's hand in the first 1-4 turns generally.

[endijian]

Hi!

I recently found new interest in DS, and I thought I mise put up my current list for discussion:

11 Mountain
4 Tomb
4 City

4 Mox

4 Spirit Guide
4 Magus
4 Raiders
4 Pit Dragon
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Lord of Shatterskull Pass

4 Chalice
4 Blood Moon
3 Trinissphere

2 Sword of Something and Another
1 Jitte

Some comments:

- No Seething Song/Arcslogger
I think I am one of the biggest Slogger-Fans around, but with Revoker in the mix, I favor a little bit more consistency over explosiveness.
I know, explosiveness is the most important asset of DS, But Revoker, as another piece of disruption, slows the deck down a turn. I do not want to play a Revoker (too) early - i. e. first or second turn off a song together with a moon / trini. So i think i can safely cut the Song. And without song, sadly no Slogger.
Speaking of consistency, another Mountain is in order, I think.

- Lord of Shatterskull Pass.
An unsafe candidate. Regrettably, the best offensive Four-Drop. I am contemplating the other usual "fringe"-cards (Taurean Mauler, Sulfur Elemental, Randomkroma) in this slot. Another card I tested was Kargan Dragonlord, but I am overloading on Two-Drops. I only know one thing for sure: I do not want FTK...

- No Koth
For a mono-red Deck, DS plays to few mountains too use Koth. I had games that were like
1st turn Chalice1;
2nd turn Trini;
3rd turn Koth with following cards in play: 1 Mox, 1 Mountain, 1 Ancient Tomb. Not that great...

- The Equipment: Might become 3 Swords, I am not sure which.
Jitte becomes worse in a Deck with Revoker. I cannot afford to trade the Revoker (or Magus, btw) to start generating Jitte-Counters. Swords on the other hand turn the equipped creature into a monster right away. Which is necessary, since Revoker adds another Dork to the Deck.
I am leaning towards SoFoF. Pro:Green is huge, and even though I really like the Wolf token, the Mill Trigger is useless, bordering to dangerous (Add SDT and Sylvan library to the aforementioned list of Graveyard decks).

[NecroYawgmoth]

Hey there... Well I had the same thoughts about Revoker, and I was thinking a LOT about the Seething or Trini blabla, and... testing approves that Trini and a bit more consisesty is better than explosiveness and first turn Seething. Seething needs another accelerator, and if we accelereate into a first turn Slogger and they have removal, we have just lost. On the other Hand... Testings had shown that SoB&M is super awesome.

So if we take a Sloggerless / Songless List with more equipment, I end up with this:

// Creatures
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Phyrexian Revoker

// Spells
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
3 Trinisphere
2 Sword of Body and Mind [ridicoulous]
2 Umezawa's Jitte

// Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Snow-Covered Mountain

// Sideboard
4 Ratchet Bomb
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Anarchy
3 Shattering Spree
1 Trinisphere

57/15

That leaves 3 Slots in the main. I think I would possibly play a 3rd Sword... that still leaves 2 Slots... What would be the best choice here? Shouldn't cost that much mana, because of missing Songs. Nevertheless it MUST be a creatures I think.


My Thoughts:

Slogger is too clumsy, and seems nearly impossible to cast constantly without Song.
Mauler is only good if the rest of the deck doesn't work, so he is a no go as 2-off also.
Sulfur is way to weak in modern Legacy
Akroma is bad without Song.
Fortune Thief is a weak choice in removal-infested legacy and can't swing.
Koth is winmore, only good with Moon/Trini and not good in the aggro-shifting legacy meta.
Lodestone Golem is an creature that is only good as a 4-off IMO, but not in this deck [or maybe yes?]. Nevertheless, he suffers from being an artifact.

so what's left? Lord of Clumsyskull Ass? Jaya Ballard, Latex Mage? Flameslash Kavu?

What do you guys think? I think Jaya is the best here, but maybe it's just my Merfolk-hatery =P

[ForlornEgoist]

@ NecroYawgmoth:

How about Detritivore or Shivan Wumpus for land hate #9/10?

Has your testing for a songless build been working out fine? I honestly loathe Songs because they're possibly the worst card to topdeck later in the game, but the deck, lacking any sort of MD removal, relys heavily on those explosive T1-3 plays, so I'm wondering how it's been working out for you. Since I've added the 4 MD Revoker's I have noticed a necessity for less reliance on Song, but I am still in that transition period where i feel the need to keep them.

@ SoBaM:

Yes. Yes. Yes. Uber yummy. It will fit nicely with my 3 MD Jitte. 5 Equipment is perhaps too much, so I'll most likely do a 2/2 split like you have.

Forlorn Egoist

[guidogulp]

I think it mostly goes according to your meta call. The last tournament I played, there were among 55 players, 8 merfolks and 6 goblins, so for the next one I've decided to go like this:

// Creatures
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Lord of Shatterskull Pass
2 Flametongue Kavu

// Spells
2 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
3 Trinisphere
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Seething Song

// Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain

// Sideboard
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Trinisphere
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Flametongue Kavu
3 Firespout
3 Stingscourger
2 Blood Moon

Basically, the decision to cut Sloggers is because many times it's hard to cast and it may slow down your hellbent. Without that -1 Seething seems right and is working well for now, ratchets gives you the stability the deck needs and breaks many threats. Kavu's just because in my meta there aren't many combos so it gives me the control and acceleration I want.

[NecroYawgmoth]

So, does any of you think that the new red Praetor has potential here?

Urabrask, the Hidden
3RR
Mythic Rare
Legendary Creature - Praetor
Creatures you control have Haste.
Creatures your opponents control enter the battlefield tapped.
4/4

It has the same cost as Slogger and plays well with the "all-in"-style because tapped creatures can't block, and topdecked RPDs and stuff would have haste. Too bad he isn't 5/5 =/

your opinions?

[Shawon]

His legendary status sometimes interferes with Hellben.

I think he's win-more. RPD flies and double strikes. Arc-Slogger kills creatures and burns your opponent. I don't think we need this guy.

[ivanpei]

I'm glad people have been finding sobam ridiculous. I'm having the same observations. Pro the right colours and wolf token= very useful. As for totally cutting sloggers and songs, I think this is not right. Sloggers can be totally cut but I think 2 copies is actually fine. As for songs, we need to play then to be as explosive as possible. Without songs, rpd and raiders become less good because hellbent is harder To achieve early. I don't like songs either, but hey we are some what of an all in deck, we are no way beating any deck with attrition so IMO it's best not to Hurt the all in plan.

[NecroYawgmoth]

yeah... SoB&M is sexyness^10

But I still don't play 3, because 4 Equipments must be enough.

My actual list which I am quite happy with:

// Creatures
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Lord of Shatterskull Pass

// Spells
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Trinisphere
2 Sword of Body and Mind
2 Umezawa's Jitte

// Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Snow-Covered Mountain

// Sideboard
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Anarchy
3 Shattering Spree
2 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage

I only play 6 cards that cost 4 mana, and I am playing the maximum Screw-Plan... and because of only six 4-mana cards [4 if I exchange Shatterskull with Kargan] I have no problems to get hellbent.

[Shawon]

If Shattering Spree is for Affinity, then that's not enough hate. Even if you can consistently hit RRR or higher, Affinity can still easily recover. Shatterstorm is better. Personally I go above and beyond Affinity hate and run 4 Null Rod.

[NecroYawgmoth]

nah... we also have Trinisphere, Chalice and we have Revoker to stop Plating... and we can cut them off from colored mana with Moon and Revoker. 3 Sprees are enough with the other stuff IMO

[black lotus]

@NecroYawgmoth: Your list comes pretty close to what I consider state of the art as far as Dragonstompy goes. As I have said many times before, slight adjustments in main- and sideboard really depend on your metagame. This would be a built for an unknown metagame or one where you expect few tribals but rather junk, cb, bant. Good job. If you expect more tribals, cut 2 moons, 1 Trini for something like 1 Lord, 2 Jaya and switch back to SoFiI, but this version seems fine otherwise =)
about Shattering Spree: It's _easily_ the best choice in this slot. If you draw it against Affinity, it's game (no they simply do not recover). 3 is fine, I wouldn't blame anyone for playing 4 though. Shatterstorm and Null Rod both hurt yourself A LOT so don't even think about it.

I still think Lodestone Golem is a good choice, but it's an artifact which actually does hurt and very occasionally, you would rather see that Lord. However, he does a lot of things very well and I recommend playing it over anything in this slot unless your metagame is like >50% aggro (Zoo, Goblin). In that case, Slogger, Flametongue and Lord do something very similar (exept that Slogger is the only one that requires Seething Song). If you don't feel confidant running Golem, Lord is probably the way to go.

I'm glad people are beginning to understand that Seething Song is not necessarily an autoinclusion to this deck and with Revokers you can be just fine running on a lower manacurve =)

Urabrask is obviously not strong enough to find its way into this deck.

[blinka]

Hey everyone. Just started getting into Legacy, and built my first deck: Dragon Stompy (both paper and online). Have always had a thing for mono-red, and the explosiveness of the deck just seemed like so much fun.

Been playing it a lot for a couple weeks now, trying out the various lists. One of the first things I've realized is how critical that opening hand is. Knowing when to mulligan is key. There are so many decks out there where a first turn blood/magus or chalice for 1 (or 2) or trinisphere absolutely shuts down the opponent.

The list I'm currently running is similar to NecroYawgmoth's, except with seething songs, 2 akromas, no SoBaM. I usually keep the trinispheres in the sideboard. Also been messing around with Jaya, as well as sometimes Land's Edge. I like playing with two Land's Edges, especially if I'm using arc-sloggers and/or koth (being able to discard these guys anytime for hellbent is important).

In terms of matchups, I'm still learning about all the other decks out there. It sucks when I have a phyrexian revoker early, but am not sure what I should be choosing. More experience will help in this regard, I'm sure. In general, I've been able to beat Counter-Top pretty reliably as well as Death & Taxes. Seems about 50/50 against whatever that deck with Bridge from Below is called. Seem to always lose to other non-dragon stompy mono-red decks like goblins and burn.

Overall, the deck is a lot of fun to play, and I'm liking the legacy scene so far. Great thread!

[Shawon]

about Shattering Spree: It's _easily_ the best choice in this slot. If you draw it against Affinity, it's game (no they simply do not recover). 3 is fine, I wouldn't blame anyone for playing 4 though. Shatterstorm and Null Rod both hurt yourself A LOT so don't even think about it.

No, Affinity can recover. You either attack their team or their mana with Shattering Spree. Affinity is fast as hell. If they are one turn from lethal, Shattering Spree for RRR may save you, but they can still rebuild their offense the next turn or reequip Cranial Plating to a new creature or Blinkmoth. If you think 3 Shattering Spree is enough against Affinity, you need to play the matchup more.

Null Rod is easily the best answer to Affinity. Who cares if your Chrome Mox or Jitte gets turned off, because in exchange you turn off their entire deck.

[TheSleeper]

I don't like Revoker main deck. I've always found these creatures (Meddling Mage, etc) to be more trouble than they're worth. They don't affect board position at all and have antergy with some of your best cards (Jitte). It's not red for Mox and you don't always know what your opponent is playing game 1. What exactly is so crucial to Stifle that he can offset these drawbacks? Aether Vial? I think partially why he's been ok is because maybe this deck really just needed another low-cost creature. Until Wizards gives us another awesome 2R, we have to make do with what we have. To that end, I trawled up a few cards to generate discussion/ideas. Its always good to do due diligence even if you come back to Revoker :) I understand the cards below can't be cast off a single Tomb/City like Revoker can. Ability to pitch to Mox could offset that tho..

Embersmith - our deck has 14 artifacts, which means 'Smith could be activated a couple of times. 2/1 isn't bad either.
Goblin Tinkerer - why stifle Vial when you can just blow it up
Keldon Marauders - trades with Nacatl and friends while dishing damage
Mogg War Marshal - fantastic chump blocker, can kamikaze with a Jitte
Rustrazor Butcher - this guy was born to carry equipment! Jitte + first strike is awesome, with Wither to boot. With Jitte he can attack into a 5/6 Goyf and survive (and shrink it). Any of the swords on this guy are sweet too. I wouldn't mind testing him.
Skirk Marauder - another morph keeps opponent guessing, option to Shock could be decent
Stingscourger - having an out to Emrakul is a good thing
Yellow Scarves Cavalry - carries equipment.. kinda. I really just mention him because he wears likes yellow scarves.
Goblin Piledriver - blocks merfolk/war monk all day, carries equipment
Vexing Shusher - best way to protect Rakdos from FoW

[TheSleeper]

<double post sorry>

[blinka]

I've put the revoker to good use against Aether Vial, Knight of the Reliquary, Sensei's Divining Top, Umezawa's Jitte, Mother of Runes, and various swords. Yeah, there's a lot of times I wish I had a different card, but there is no doubt i've won some games because of it.

I kinda agree though, it doesn't seem like THE answer for the four slots it takes up.

[Zupponn]

Here's my list:

-Lands-
11x Mountain
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Crystal Vein (Don't want to spend the money on Cities at the moment)

-Creatures-
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Rakdos Pit Dragon
4x Gathan Raiders
3x Magus of the Moon
3x Arc-Slogger
2x Lord of Shatterskull Pass
2x Flametongue Kavu

-Spells-
4x Chrome Mox
4x Trinisphere
3x Chalice of the Void
3x Blood Moon
3x Seething Song
2x Koth of the Hammer

[ivanpei]

Unfortunately, revoker is the best dude @ 2cc. Also you can cast him T1 off a double land in response to a T1 Vial or Heirarch. When you follow it up with a moon effect, it's GG. That's what I like most about him, the fact that he can screw around with Mox's/Vials/Heirarch early and then later, shut down bombs like opposing Jittes, Kotr, Mangara or Top.

[Zupponn]

To me, Revoker seems a bit fragile, and the cards that you named that he shuts down have better answers in my opinion. Also, I don't like how he doesn't work under a chalice at two is affected slightly by Trinisphere, and doesn't play well with Chrome Mox. Maybe I didn't test him enough or am not thinking about something, but those are my feelings on him.