[Deck] Dragon Stompy

[Jables237]

Question for those who have played more of this archetype than I: if I don't have access to a Goblin Settler, what is the best tribe for this archetype? Goblins, werewolves, dragons, etc?

Without goblins, I would say humans. Uncounterable Magus is a sweet play.

[OCPunisher]

So flamespeakers and kargans?

[ActionJunkie]

If you drop an uncounterable magus then moggcatcher will be counterable because cavern is a mountain. Beside this, i think it is a matter of consistency. Sometimes you will use spirit guides to power out turn one trinispheres. Sometimes you will be unable to hardcast siege-gang commander because you put a cavern on human to deploy a moggcatcher than then got killed. Sometimes you will put cavern on goblins to cast rabblemaster turn one then be unable to cast moggcatcher.

All in all, i value the possibility of being able to always cast my spells more than the raw power of cavern of souls. Cavern is a very good card and i would run 4 of it in a mono creature type deck, but if we are running humans and goblins and planeswalkers i think it is absolutely wrong to run 4 caverns, and i'm leaning to run 2 of them rather than 3.

Where's the issue? If you dropped a Blood Moon or Magus, you better be winning. There are narrow cases where they can get off a Lightning Bolt or Swords but you are playing high impact cards. So where's the issue with Cavern usually being Humans?

Yes, consistency is important. Guess I was just confused with some of your points about Moggcatcher being human and not having red for Goblins. 8 Blood Moons will lead you there (along with your ~8 mountains/chrome mox/etc.). There are definitely lists where 1-3 Caverns is correct especially with heavy Koth/PWs. And all the power to you if you like 2 - feel free to share findings but be ready for cordial/inquisitive arguments (which are a GOOD thing).

So flamespeakers and kargans?

Kargan maybe. Flamespeaker most likely as it's such high impact just hasn't been thoroughly tested. MTGdecks.net has a good list of mono-Red Stompy decks with evolution. If you go Humans, probably Werewolves. Check that website and look through mono-R Stompy decks of the last 1-3 years.

[ZTurgeon]

I am starting to test the starcity version you played. I like the moggcatcher version.
I have some suggestion/question, did you test sandstone needle instead of city of traitors mainly for access to RR for flamespeaker/koth.
I am prefering a four of koth in the place of trinisphere ; is trinisphere really worth it ?
Why no pyrokinesis in side ? It seems to be one of the best card to me for the side. Are leyline of the void really worth it ?
Isn't grafdigegr's cage just a better card ?

I haven't tried Sandstone Needle. I don't think lands that come into play tapped are where you want to be. More games are won off of using either Sol Land and Guide/Mox to power out a turn 1 Blood Moon than pretty much anything else. That and you can't turn 1 Chalice off of Needle.

Another Koth is the 76th card. I want to have another but I wouldn't cut another trinisphere. It took me 4 months of trying to cut the first and I am still not sure it's right. There are just some decks that can't beat it, and others that are so crippled by it they cannot correctly execute a game plan. Often you can hads capable of turn 1 Trinisphere or Blood Moon and that is obviously it's best place. Yes, it is worse later in the game, but it still heavily taxes decks trying to chain cantrip.

I have a love/hate relationship with pyrokinesis. It is either insane or you can't pitch cast it becuase of a lack of red cards. I wouldn't fault anyone for running it.

And Cage is a much better card, but not one we can use. It costs 1 and also shuts off Moggcatcher. Against 95% of graveyard decks, we want a chalice on 1, and that hurts cage, as well as it crippling our best card non-lock card.

[LeoCop 90]

Question for those who have played more of this archetype than I: if I don't have access to a Goblin Settler, what is the best tribe for this archetype? Goblins, werewolves, dragons, etc?

Well, it's not that you can't play goblins without goblin settler. He is not integral to the archetype. He is a nice tool to get rid of basic lands, and you can live the dream of going on the play turn 1 trinisphere, turn 2 moggcatcher, turn 3 search for settler blow up a land, turn 4 search for kiki-jiki and start copying settler every turn..... so that opponent never reach 3 mana to cast a spell. But honestly this still never happened to me, so i think you ca live without goblin settler.

[Blastoderm]

Well, it's not that you can't play goblins without goblin settler. He is not integral to the archetype. He is a nice tool to get rid of basic lands, and you can live the dream of going on the play turn 1 trinisphere, turn 2 moggcatcher, turn 3 search for settler blow up a land, turn 4 search for kiki-jiki and start copying settler every turn..... so that opponent never reach 3 mana to cast a spell. But honestly this still never happened to me, so i think you ca live without goblin settler.

I wouldn't play Goblin Settler even if I had it...maindeck my only moggcatcher target is siege-gang. I don't like having bad cards (kikijiki) in my opening hand.

[Zupponn]

Personally, I like having access to Tuktuk Scrapper in my main to deal with problrmatic artifacts game one. I've tried out Settler in the main and never wanted to search it up.

Kiki-Jiki has been good with FTKs. The ability to keep picking off an enemy creature every turn is pretty strong, which can give this deck huge game against decks like Death and Taxes and the Delver flavor of the month. If you don't have multiple FTKs main, I don't think Kiki-Jiki is worth it.

[Olaf Forkbeard]

I've always thought Goblin Settler was in those builds for the relatively common match-up that is Miracles. Breaking those basics. Under that assumption, and Miracles is not really in your meta, don't run it.

[Zupponn]

I've always thought Goblin Settler was in those builds for the relatively common match-up that is Miracles. Breaking those basics. Under that assumption, and Miracles is not really in your meta, don't run it.

That would be about the best reason I can think of.

Miracles is an odd matchup for me. Sometimes I just roll it with DS, while other times I get crushed.

[LeoCop 90]

I'm surprised there is so much quiet in this thread after the printing of Goblin Rabblemaster. He is one of the best 2R creatures we ever had , and we were testing goblin builds anyway. He would certainly be a nice addition to the goblin stompy deck. Here are some thoughts of caleb durward about rabblemaster :

http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...ering-rabbles/


Does anyone here already play with rabble ?

[Sisyphos]

I have done some limited testing with Rabblemaster (8-10 BO3s against different decks), being that I commented on its possible use in Goblin Stompy in my respone to the set review of M15 by Mon, Goblin Chief.

So far, I have not been impressed, boarding it our quite frequently. Sure, landing it on T2 after a T1 Chalice or Moon sounds very nice and it closes the game out quite fast, but if your opponent can't handle the disruption, it doesn't really matter with what creature you attack. After getting a Moggchatcher online, I never searched for Rabblemaster over other targets like SCG, so its only use is when you draw it naturally. The casting cost is very nice, but comparing power-level, I have found Prophetic Flamespeaker to be so much better for the deck, that the more difficult casting cost of 1RR is more then balanced out.

When I get home, I will add the list I used.

Edit:
Here's what I tested:

2 Snow-covered mountain
2 cavern of souls
8 mountain
4 city of traitors
4 ancient tomb

4 magus of the moon
4 simian spirit guide
3 phyrexian revoker
4 prophetic flamespeaker
4 moggcatcher
2 Siege-gang-commander
3 goblin rabblemaster
1 kiki-jiki, mirror breaker
1 goblin settler
4 chalice of the void
3 chrome mox
4 blood moon
3 trinisphere

board
1 stingscourger
3 bonfire of the damned
2 umezawa's jitte
3 faerie macabre
2 ensnaring bridge
3 mindbreak trap
1 Tuk-tuk scrapper

Some Results I still remember (it's been a couple of weeks):
Wins: Rug Delver, Bug Delver, Elves, Junk
Losses: SneakShow, Shardless NO, UR Delver/Standstill-deck

[Zupponn]

I'm surprised there is so much quiet in this thread after the printing of Goblin Rabblemaster. He is one of the best 2R creatures we ever had , and we were testing goblin builds anyway. He would certainly be a nice addition to the goblin stompy deck. Here are some thoughts of caleb durward about rabblemaster :

http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...ering-rabbles/


Does anyone here already play with rabble ?

Honestly, I thought about it when the card was spoiled, but I didn't really take it seriously at the time. I'll have to look into it more.

Also, Gerry Thompson featured that 4-0 list as well:
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...in-Prison.html

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Honestly, I thought about it when the card was spoiled, but I didn't really take it seriously at the time. I'll have to look into it more.

Also, Gerry Thompson featured that 4-0 list as well:
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...in-Prison.html

I've started trying him as a 2 of in modern jund (cutting the 4 drops) and if he's the only thing on the board the game just goes so quickly. He seems like a perfect fit in goblin builds.

[ivanpei]

The new red walker is super good in this deck. I'm currently going to try working on a Monored Superfriends deck between Koth Chandra and the new Red walker.

[CabalTherapy]

The new red walker is super good in this deck. I'm currently going to try working on a Monored Superfriends deck between Koth Chandra and the new Red walker.

True, this dude screams:"Play me with Chalice and Sphere, bro!"

[iamajellydonut]

The new red walker is super good in this deck.

He looks like an overcosted Koth with an inefficient creature kill ability. Remember when people used to run Chandra Nalaar just to kill Baneslayer Angel? This seems about as embarrassing.

[ivanpei]

It's much better than Chandra Nalaar. He's not quite Jace or Liliana level but he's the best red has unfortunately. Right now I'm thinking of trying this Superfriends shell to dodge removal. It tries to minimize creatures and run zero equips.

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus or the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide

3 Dismember
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Flame Tongue Kavu

3 Chandra Pyromaster
3 Koth of the Hammer
4 Sarkhan Dragonspeaker

10 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox

The deck tries to play control while dropping lock pieces. You throw our your lock pieces as early as possible then try and clear the early game drops like Delver or Deathrites with removal. What I like about Sarkhan is that he is a Removal Spell plus win condition in one card. He is just so good in this deck. Quite often one or two creatures that sneak through your lock Web will wreck you. A Delver or Goyf is just really hard to deal with early.

Rather than flat out aggro with a creature and equip build, I'm going to try a board control build where I sweep the weenies and drop walkers ftw. Also FTK can combo with Sarkhan in indestructible dragon form if there is nothing to fry. Or a Koth when you are land flooding after a swing with the 4/4.

[LeoCop 90]

In a mono planewalkers list ensnaring bridge would be very good. Problem is that sarkhan need to attack to do something. If only his emblem said "draw 3 more cards" instead of 2 it would have been the dream.... 4 cards in hand in your turn so you can attack with sarkhan and koth mountains..... 0 cards in hand at opponent's turn....

[Blastoderm]

None of the new cards look promising...rabblemaster doesn't do much vs tarmogoyf or batterskull.

I'm STILL using my original list from 2011 (the first Goblin list ever!):

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post734754

Only change was -1 Koth +1 Tuktuk Scrapper in the main

My sb is the following:

2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Goblin Assault (for miracles)
3 Sudden Shock
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Ensnaring Bridge

I recently went 3-1 with the deck. I lost to miracles but I played a more belcher style (turn 1 moggcatcher). I beat him 2-0 after we finished the match though. Goblin Assault was all-star!

I then had to grind out wins against mono black The Gate (no non basics) and Junk, UB decks with budget mana bases. I literally sided out blood moons EVERY MATCHUP (all 4) and trinisphere (in 3 matchups). Goes to show that the deck can pull out easy wins with the strong creatures (rakka mar is insane).

I'm still waiting to replace Hound of Griselbrand with something but he's been so sturdy at holding back Goyf, Batterskull and Liliana. Amazing in combat.

[Octopusman]

Can we have a pro vs con of Rabblemaster vs Assault, by match up if necessary? I'm curious.
[Edit] I realize chump block on Rabblemaster is a concern aside from being easier to remove but in context (under lock pieces) I'm still curious.