Originally Posted by Zupponn
I'd cut 3 Mountain for 3 Cavern of Souls You are playing Humans and Goblins and I think that would be worth it.
The other issue i am facing with my stompy deck is the red mana. As he has a few creatures with double red requirements, going down further on the mountains might not be a good idea. I alreayd reduced souls from 4 to 2 to increase my mountain count. I find a number of times that I had to mulligan my hand coz there was not enough red mana to cast my hand. The traitors can also help you or kill you. I have mana hands with magus and goblins and only tombs or traitors and one souls. Or something like that. Making it a very big risk. Take note that many red decks including the RUG or UR delvers also run Pyroclasm which kills all our board.
I am now running 2 Souls, 4 Tombs and 3 Traitors and 11 mountains. I been trying to fit goblin king and a few +1/+1 to all goblins but the double mana requirement is a problem that I have not solved.
Hound of Griselbrand is really underated. So is Rakka-Mar.
Rakka-Mar >>>>> Rabblemaster
Both Rakka and Hound are good. But they are 4 mana and need 2 red source. So cant really compare them to a 3 mana Rabblemaster which can come out in turn 1 or turn 2. Also Rakka and hound are human. So if you have them in your deck, you may need to reduce Mogg count in the deck? Maybe play a more human deck in stead if you play hound and rakka? Worth a test.
I can't agree with a word you said. Rakka-mar is a worse Moggcatcher. Anything will win when you lock them out, but when you don't the ability to get direct damage, artifact removal and seige gang is just so much better than a 3/1.
And Hound just isn't very good without support. He doesn't beat a goyf until he dies once, and he still dies to bolt when he comes back. Every time I tried him, I wished he was something else, unless I had equipment.
Of course Rakka-Mar is worse than moggcatcher. I was saying that it was better than rabblemaster. And the point is to be able to win without a lock piece. Rakka-Mar has done that for me many times. If not dealt with quickly, you get a swarm of 3/1s
But the issue is that Rabble and Rakka aren't compatible because of the wildly different costs. That second R makes her harder to cast, and her costing 4 just puts her up in the Instigator gang, Moggcater, and Moltensteel Dragon range. Try out rabble. He kills in 4 turns for 3 mana. That is the same rate as Hanweir Watchkeep. It's the fastest single 3 drop available in red.
I wouldn't ever go below 10 mountains in this deck, no matter what the build. You need to be able to consistently land T1 Blood Moon if you have it and Cavern doesn't help with that. Plus I never want to risk drawing a Goblin if I have it on Human or drawing a Human if I have it on Goblin and I need it to produce red mana.
I agree that you will need to have maximum number of mountains in order to maintain consistancy. However Cavern of Souls is an important card to make sure stuff hits the board. It makes life so much easier. Cavern of SOuls is that card you wanna hold back untill you need to play it (Wasteland - Humans/Goblins?).
If you're talking about landing a three-drop on T1 then i would prefer to go for Cavern + Magus of the Moon any day over a Mountain + Blood Moon (unless against Lightning Bolt or decks that don't care about Moon effect's). I am not sure what line of play it is you have in mind, but going in with Mountain + 2x SSG or even 1xSSG + Chrome Mox is damn tricky. On top of that you don't need a mountain to pull that off. Also running into a FoW just costed 3-4 cards, which mostly means a scoop. Unless you know what you're up against i would never go in with that blind. Plus dropping a Ancient Tomb + SSG into a Blood Moon or a Trinisphere is always just so much better.
So new Sarkhan Vol seems like a nice addition to this deck. Removal and a 4/4 flier with haste? Not too bad.
Much better than Koth, at least.
Also brings up the question of what rules apply to tapped Planeswalkers?
What do you mean what rules? It's the same thing as tapped artifacts, enchantments, Gideon Jura, etc.
I like the idea of him, but I don't think he's better than Koth. His removal option might make him more versatile, but he is much much worse against Miricles. If he gets swords'ed or terminused, he goes away. With Koth, the mountain goes away and Koth stays to throw another one next turn and still threaten his emblem.
Not strictly Dragon Stompy, but I tested him in that Mono Red Control list that had Ensnaring Bridge, Magma Jet, Jaya Ballard, Task Mage, etc and, at least in limited testing, I wanted him to be Chandra, Pyromaster or Koth of the Hammer more often than him. He wasn't bad, though, and I could see him fitting into the right list.
Exactly I have Koth in the sideboard for Controll match ups. The removal Controll plays is usually Swords and Terminus. In which case I rather sacrifice a Land to the holy cause of killing my opponent then a 5 mana Planeswalker (which I might add is also still probably a turn slower then Koth)
Do you (or anyone else) happen to have a list or link to a possible red control list?
Although 5 mana for that Sarkhan is a bit slower then Koth, his ultimate is not to far out of reach and might break stalemate in the control match-up's. Might just run a 2/1 split between Koth/Sarkhan to see how it goes in reality.
Has anyone tried to use a combo finish with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Lightning Crafter + Skirk Prospector or Goblin Bombardment ?
I always liked the 8 moon + chalice aspect of the deck, it's devastating in the right meta and Goblin Rabblemaster is a nice addition too (and this card can give a nice boost to Goblin Bombardment or Krenko, Mob Boss).
The worst part for me was to win via "fair" attack steps (actual dragons builds / werewolf builds). Moggcatcher is a nice step toward a more control / combo finish, it can fetch all the pieces of the 3 cards combo i mentioned above, but i still wonder if fetching SCG + Kiki isn't simply better in most cases.
I was working from this list: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13668&iddeck=100433
Thank you. I think that going in T1 with a Moon/3sphere/Chalice @1 is really strong. I have been brewing some lists to pull of Wildfire along with Crucible of Worlds. While testing i had Wurmcoil Engines, Inferno Titan, Steel Hellkites and other stuff, but the plainswalkers did provide better utility. Getting Wildfire to hit the board wasn't consistant enough so i decided to get a bunch of lower costed sweeper to protect the walkers like Pyroclasm, Volcanic Fallout and Mizzium Mortars[/cards]. In the end i never tested the last list, but i wonder where it would have gotten me. Might just slam it together and find out. Can't get the idea out of my head Trinisphere followed by a Wildfire, pfew.
I used that list - Forcefield (cause $$$) and + Crystal Ball (cause cheap and scry). I also had - Form of the Dragon, + Trinisphere in the board because I did not understand what Form was used against. Another 8-Moon Stompy enthusiast informed me it helps against stuff like Merfolk and Goblins.
List was pretty good. Main decking Ensnaring Bridge was awesome when I was paired against 2 Sneak and Show for the day.
I believe we are getting to a critical mass of sweeping removal and red planeswalkers where something similar to this list could work.
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