[Deck] Dragon Stompy

[Octopusman]

Get the Stormbreaths and Seething Songs. You'll be glad you did. I've gone back and forth running 3 or 4 of each.

Hoping to hear some success stories from other players. Stormbreath is going to be difficult to replace as the deck's "large" threat imo.

I'd also suggest picking up Flamespeakers while they're cheap. Card is so underrated I can't even believe how overlooked it is.

[Octopusman]

Friends and I are having a disagreement.

They say that game 1 I should t1 chalice or 1 on the play instead of t1 moon against unknown opponent.
Just curious as to the analysis. The more players with experience to chime in the better.

I say moon is the better play since it shuts off fetches and is more crippling if they kept a greedy hand/have few basics.
Argument is chalice all but guarantees they can't play something on their next turn.
However, they can fetch for a basic which makes the 8 moons much less scary.
I believe the odds that moon will wreck them happens more often than getting the chalice down a turn later has a drastic effect on the game long term.

Would really like to hear your thoughts on this.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Friends and I are having a disagreement.

They say that game 1 I should t1 chalice or 1 on the play instead of t1 moon against unknown opponent.
Just curious as to the analysis. The more players with experience to chime in the better.

I say moon is the better play since it shuts off fetches and is more crippling if they kept a greedy hand/have few basics.
Argument is chalice all but guarantees they can't play something on their next turn.
However, they can fetch for a basic which makes the 8 moons much less scary.
I believe the odds that moon will wreck them happens more often than getting the chalice down a turn later has a drastic effect on the game long term.

Would really like to hear your thoughts on this.

You are correct.
CotV will almost always blank their first turn play, but a Moon can potentially lock them out of the game. Moonman isn't as guaranteed, so I can see the argument of laying down CotV@1 to turn off bolt/plow first. Likewise, there is an argument that CotV is the correct play on the draw. But on the play against an unknown opponent, Blood Moon is the correct play.

[danpo]

Tried this again at my local last night. Four rounds, 14 dudes, this list:

4 phyrexian revoker
4 magus of the moon
4 goblin rabblemaster
4 avaricious dragon
4 stormbreath dragon

4 chalice of the void
3 trinisphere
3 blood moon

4 simian spirit guide
4 seething song
4 chrome mox
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
10 mountain

4 thorn of amethyst
3 smash to smithereens
3 sulfur elemental
2 tormod's crypt
2 sudden demise
1 trinisphere

You could argue this curve is steep, but in my mind it's the same as when we ran 4x Arc Slogger (Stormbreath) and 4x Rakdos Pit Dargon (Avaricious) and 4x Seething Song, which to be honest I'm not sure why that last card got cut. Anyway:

Round one against Reanimator:
G1 I win the roll and open with Seething Song into Blood Moon and Chalice on 1. He does not have FOW and scoops.

G2 he mulls and keeps a hand with T1 Duress. He sees a hand with Chalice, sol land, Chrome Mox, Rabblemaster and some other cards. He takes the Chalice. On my turn I topdeck Magus and slam sol land, imprint, moon you? He has FOW but is now down to two cards in hand. On his turn he plays Thoughtseize I think for Rabblemaster and then casts Reanimate on Rabblemaster, but I'm able to get an Avaricious Dragon out and eventually trade a Revoker for Rabbleman and bury him.

I feel dirty?

Round two against Omnishow:
G1 he just always has the FOW and/or Spell Pierce when he needs it. I would like to drop Trinisphere in off S&T but I never see it. He goes off the turn before I dead him.
G2 I board out Blood Moons and I guess Maguses (can't remember [[EDIT: It was Revokers. They're real pointless here.]]) for Thorns, the fourth Trinisphere and Tormod's Crypt bc Dig Through Time.
He FOWs my T1 Thorn. A couple turns later I have Avaricious Dragon and Crypt and he is at 10 life, two lands and four cards in the graveyard. I consider popping his yard but figure if he cantrips or plays/cracks a fetch I'll still have time to blow up his graveyard before he's eligible for delve. This line of thinking fails to account for City of Traitors, which he is then able to play, Dig Through Time and release a bunch of ants on the spaghetti I'm covered in.

Cry.

Round three against Death-n-Taxes.
This is around when I got too sad to take very good notes but basically I mulled to five G1 and went T1 Trinisphere / basically hellbent / staring contest, sit and stare awkwardly while wishing I could afford my own Revoker, eventually get out a Stormbreath but fail to race Batterskull?

G2 I mulled again and lost. We played two more and I went 0-4 against Death-n-Taxes. In one game Sulfur Elemental made two Stoneforge Mystics 2/1s I was unwilling to trade with. I smashed both pieces of equipment to smithereens but wound up losing to my own Ancient Tombs anyway.

-

Round four against Miracles variant feat. Back to Basics.
I gave up on notes at this point but I lost G1 and stole games 2 and 3 with resolved Chalice of the Void and mean clocks like Rabblemaster and Stormbreath Dragon.

2-2

This deck is neat and does fun things but having now gone ~2-2 with it on three different occasions and seeing no hope for ever beating the Omnishow man or the Death-n-Taxes guy I am breaking up with it.
Good luck have fun,
-Dan

[Octopusman]

Sorry to see you go. Three occasions is a small sample size but I can understand your frustration. I assume you went up to 4 trinisphere vs. omni? Avaricious Dragon seems pretty bad vs. that deck and to be honest I'm not a fan of that card in general. Hope you had fun with Stormbreath and got to see its potential. It races D&T very well but that voting card (forgot the name) can still rfg it.

Hit us up again if you try the deck in the future.

[Morzas]

Has anyone ever brewed with Crystal Vein? I've been thinking of trying it out but I want to hear what you all think first -- no sense in trying it if others have and had poor results, or if my idea is just plain bad.

[jmlima]

Has anyone ever brewed with Crystal Vein? I've been thinking of trying it out but I want to hear what you all think first -- no sense in trying it if others have and had poor results, or if my idea is just plain bad.

I've done, and it was variable, sometimes it worked as well as any of the 2 mana lands, sometimes I blew it up for the 2 mana and then regretted it. Overall, not consistent.

[Zupponn]

I'll still hold my 3Sphere, Chalice, Moon order.

3Sphere is by far the best T1 play as it becomes Time Walk for a turn or two if it sticks. This can let you set up that second lock piece or early threat with no fear of an answer and put you far ahead in the game. It's also the safest to run out first to draw out a counterspell since it is the least relevant later in the game.

Chalice gets second for very similar reasons as on the play it can be Time Walk for a turn again and you would rather have it countered over a moon effect.

Moon comes last because it is the most important and if they fetch for a single Island, who cares? That's probably the only basic they'll have all game and it means they still can't cast their Goyf.

Now, these would only be a fairly static order against an unknown opponent and with a perfect hand. We rarely get a perfect hand and mana matters to us quite a bit. Always plan out your manabase a turn or two early so you don't screw yourself. And against known opponents you're going to sometimes do match specific things like almost never casting 3Sphere against Omnitell because you just drop it off of their Show and Tell.

[Octopusman]

I'll still hold my 3Sphere, Chalice, Moon order.

3Sphere is by far the best T1 play as it becomes Time Walk for a turn or two if it sticks. This can let you set up that second lock piece or early threat with no fear of an answer and put you far ahead in the game. It's also the safest to run out first to draw out a counterspell since it is the least relevant later in the game.

Chalice gets second for very similar reasons as on the play it can be Time Walk for a turn again and you would rather have it countered over a moon effect.

Moon comes last because it is the most important and if they fetch for a single Island, who cares? That's probably the only basic they'll have all game and it means they still can't cast their Goyf.

Now, these would only be a fairly static order against an unknown opponent and with a perfect hand. We rarely get a perfect hand and mana matters to us quite a bit. Always plan out your manabase a turn or two early so you don't screw yourself. And against known opponents you're going to sometimes do match specific things like almost never casting 3Sphere against Omnitell because you just drop it off of their Show and Tell.

Appreciate this.

[Redkid43]

Just a quick idea. it's probably pretty bad but i kind of like it.


4 SSG
4 Moonman
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
3 thunderbreak regent
4 Stormbreath Dragon

4 Chalice
4 Blood Moon
4 Trinisphere
4 Chrome Mox

4 Seething Song

1 Umezawa's Jite
1 Sword of...
1 Coercive Portal

8 Sol Lands
10 Mountain


I've seen some decks playing Coercive Portal and i kinda like it. It's card draw in a deck that needs it and it's also a wrath effect in case if anything goes horribly wrong. The sword spot is flex i think---either Fire and Ice or War and Peace.

[Octopusman]

Just a quick idea. it's probably pretty bad but i kind of like it.


4 SSG
4 Moonman
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
3 thunderbreak regent
4 Stormbreath Dragon

4 Chalice
4 Blood Moon
4 Trinisphere
4 Chrome Mox

4 Seething Song

1 Umezawa's Jite
1 Sword of...
1 Coercive Portal

8 Sol Lands
10 Mountain


I've seen some decks playing Coercive Portal and i kinda like it. It's card draw in a deck that needs it and it's also a wrath effect in case if anything goes horribly wrong. The sword spot is flex i think---either Fire and Ice or War and Peace.

Flamespeaker is bonkers. However, he is already taking up the "difficult" to cast spot with his RR. Song helps but is also in demand from Stormbreath. Worried about the cost of these when all used together with Regent.
Regent is slow so that could be balanced with Stormbreath or Flamespreaker+Sword but Stormbreath isn't targeted that much and I'm not sure that's the kind of synergy that list is looking for. To be honest, I think I would run Eidolon of the Great Revel before Regent.
I'm very worried about how useful Portal would be since you're blowing up your own moxen and lock pieces. :O

Curious to know how it works out!

[LeoCop 90]

Men, Coercive portal in a 1vs1 game only has the option of drawing an extra card, assuming your opponent is not an idiot.
You get an extra card if homage has more votes or the vote is tied, so you just vote homage and then it doesn't matter at all what your opponent does.
Now assume you need to wipe the board : you vote carnage, then any opponent with a brain will vote homage and since the vote is tied you will just draw an extra card.
Basically, it is a bottled cloister without the "minor" downside that you could lose your hand.

[Redkid43]

So after some testing with my list I really felt like i needed to shy away from XRR casting cost things and move into a tighter build.

This is what I've arrived at post testing--I like the way this looks more

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
4 Stormbreath Dragon

4 Seething Song

4 Blood Moon

4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Umezawa's Jitte

8 Sol Lands
10 Mountain

Jitte on a double strike creature is crazy insane damage-but I think I may cut that number down to 2 and bring in a Sword of X and Y. Not sure which one-FaI can cause some serious damage and draw a bunch of cards (plus Flamespeaker's ability when he connects) but WaP can straight kill them if their hand is greater than 4 cards. I'm leaning more towards FaI.

I have a few different sideboard options:

Idea 1
3 Uba Mask
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Manic Vandal
1 Viashino Heretic
2 Outpost Siege
2 Chaos Warp
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Idea 2
1 Trinisphere
2 Outpost Siege
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Icy Manipulator
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ashen Rider
1 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Volcanic Fallout
1 Sudden Demise

Idea 3
2 Outpost Siege
1 Stranglehold
2 Icy Manipulator
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Volcanic Fallout
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Shattering Spree

Thoughts?

[Delvis]

Have you considered Sword of Feast and Famine to pair with your Flamespeaker?

Untapping your lands after getting two of his triggers seems okay. Plus if the first card flipped is an instant or has flash, you can cast it before the second untap trigger. The protection abilities are really nice, too, helping you dodge Goyfs, Delve creatures and Abrupt Decays.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Untapping your lands after getting two of his triggers seems okay. Plus if the first card flipped is an instant or has flash, you can cast it before the second untap trigger.

I don't see any instants or cards with flash in his list or 3 potential sideboards. And discard isn't enormously relevant, although getting 2 cards is hard to ignore the impact of...

I'm personally starting to like SoWaP although I have not tried it yet. Octopusman's point of "our #1 goal is to lock opponents out of playing spells, so why not punish them for having cards in hand" really resonated with me.

[Redkid43]

Under that paradigm, I can get behind War and Peace--and considering it has the potential to possibly kill the opponent with Flamespeaker's double strike is appealing.

As for sideboards, i really like the first one. Although Viashino Heretic is a bit slow. I'm gonna try out Stranglehold in it's place.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I have a few different sideboard options:

Idea 1
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Idea 3
1 Stranglehold

Thoughts?

I have experience with some of those cards you may find useful.

Why 2 Emrakul? 1 is all you need against Painter's Servant combo and it isn't very good against OmniTell. I haven't seen Sneak and Show in a while, maybe it is big in your meta?

Strangehold is a wasted slot in my experience. I have tried it several times and want it to be good, but it isn't.


I also have a question:
Why so many Uba Mask? Is it just to turn off permission?

[Redkid43]

I have experience with some of those cards you may find useful.

Why 2 Emrakul? 1 is all you need against Painter's Servant combo and it isn't very good against OmniTell. I haven't seen Sneak and Show in a while, maybe it is big in your meta?

Strangehold is a wasted slot in my experience. I have tried it several times and want it to be good, but it isn't.


I also have a question:
Why so many Uba Mask? Is it just to turn off permission?

Theres a good amount of blue in my meta so Uba Mask is for them.

[Delvis]

I don't see any instants or cards with flash in his list or 3 potential sideboards. And discard isn't enormously relevant, although getting 2 cards is hard to ignore the impact of...

I'm personally starting to like SoWaP although I have not tried it yet. Octopusman's point of "our #1 goal is to lock opponents out of playing spells, so why not punish them for having cards in hand" really resonated with me.

I'm on board with Tolstoy. The basic plan of the deck is to force them to have dead cards in hand, and W&P capitalizes on that. OTOH, F&F's discard lets them discard the cards in their hand that they can't cast anyway.

The instants comment was more offhand hypothetical than actual plan. If there were instants, F&F might be better, but even so I think W&P fits in too well with the deck's gameplan. Of course I'm just a random outsider.

Can we call it Tolstoy instead of SoWaP or W&P, though? I would be so happy.

[Octopusman]

Haha. Tolstoy. I can get behind that. I'll start spreading that around my lgs whenever I kill them the same turn it's played.



RedKid, your last main deck looks very similar, if not identical to a build I tried. I think you'll be happy with it. I dropped Rabblemasters for maindeck land d, but Rabblemaster can get out of hand if left unchecked for just a turn... multiplicatively so if you drop a 2nd.

Very, very excited to hear about your results/experiences with Flamespeaker and Stormbreath. Jitte has the benefit of costing 1 less, which is actually a really big deal. Though, the removal activations are less important since you're usually just killing them as soon as possible. It can't hit important stuff like True-Name, but it does kill Thalia. The appeal of activating the +2/+2 after a first strike and before normal combat damage is great since you're now able to clear large threats like Goyf. I'd say if you're gaining life, you're poorly positioned. If you have the Sword of War and Peace, I'd really suggest trying it. But, why not try both? I could see Jitte being a potential better choice in a list focusing on Rabblemaster. Since it's not unreasonable to cast and equip a Jitte the turn after landing Rabblemaster.

Viashino Heretic does seem very slow. I see you already have Shattering Spree in another sideboard. It's hard to beat the value of spree.

Chaos Warp is bad. Emmy doesn't do much when they drop Omniscience and extra turn on their free Emmy. There's a enough of omnishow in my meta.
Have you tried Ensnaring Bridge?

Gotta run,