[Deck] Elven Advantage

[Neil]

I'm not particulary worried about sweepers, no. The deck plays what, 10 maindeck cards that generate card advantage, 4 GSZ to tutor 6 of them and Wirewood Symbiote to recur card advantage elves and save your most important ones from removal. Sweepers backed by a big threat or a card advantage engine of their own is worse but still not unsalvageable. That said in the scenarioswhere Bounty is good (Joraga + Elves! on the table as well as extra cards on hand), you should already be winning.



Retort. Also no, it's not "as clean and simple as clearing the table".

I might be missing something here, but you guys are talking about using bounty to give +1/+1 three times to Joraga which gives all the rest of the elves +3/+3 right? If that is so doesn't Joraga require +1/+1 counters which bounty does not give. Am I forgetting something?

[Infinitium]

Check the oracle wording; it gives counters.

[nedleeds]

I concede that without Warcaller it's not very exciting, but it can still save a lord or with the mana situation occasionally be cast. With a Warcaller it just seems like a game ender, or Force of Will vs. the worst main deck card in the format for this deck -- firespout --.

[Neil]

Would running 1 or 2 Copperhorn Scout be a good idea?

[Koby]

Is Deranged Hermit out of the question here? It's a good way to help beat Zoo's big guys, and potential for shenanigans with Wirewood Symbiote.

Turbo charges a Gaea's Cradle too.

[Infinitium]

I wouldn't run Copperhorn unless I also ran Emrakul/Storm maindeck since it interferes with the beatface plan, and even then it would probably be better to run more Quirion Ranger in most cases. Can't say since I haven't tested it yet, but feel free to try it out yourself! I didn't post this only to stroke my own ego y'know.

Deranged Hermit isn't unreasonable as a big mana GSZ target but I haven't had the time to test it yet. I'm toying with adding Wirewood Hivemaster in the Elven Champion/Ezuri/flex slot for many of the same reasons as it can also stall and put pressure on control without overextending much (ab)using Symbiote.

[Mr. Safety]

I'm curious what Aether Vial could do for this deck, as an alternative to Glimpse. If you can Vial in smaller dudes, your mana can be used to power out bigger dudes like Sylvan Messenger.

I'm also curious why Ezuri, Renegade Leader isn't in here x1 as a great Zenith target.

[Neil]

I wouldn't run Copperhorn unless I also ran Emrakul/Storm maindeck since it interferes with the beatface plan, and even then it would probably be better to run more Quirion Ranger in most cases. Can't say since I haven't tested it yet, but feel free to try it out yourself! I didn't post this only to stroke my own ego y'know.

right I'll proxie a version of your deck list and test it out. This is the deck list I will do pretty well.

11 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Mutavault

2 Llanowar Elves
2 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
3 Priest of Titania

4 Joraga Warcaller
4 Elvish Archdruid
1 Ezuri, renegade leader

3 Elvish Visionary
2 Sylvan Messenger

1 Viridian Shaman

2 Quirion Ranger
3 Wirewood Symbiote

4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Concordant Crossroads

3 Aether Vial

Changes are -3 Forests, -1 Wirewood, -1 Priest of Titania, -1 Elvish Champion, and -1 Elvish Visionary (I am not sure if taking out this one is so smart). +3 Mutavault, +1 Ezuri renegade leader, and +3 Aether Vial. Also replaced the Zealot with Viridian Shaman which really depends on your meta. I don't know if the Aether Vial is such a good idea but I want to to try it out.

[Neil]

Why not run Progenitus main deck? It can be played using GSZ for 11 mana. Or is that just not worth it?

[Infinitium]

I remember Eldariel using it to good effect in a similar deck (check my opening post), but I'm personally pretty lukewarm to it. Without Survival you can't really get rid of prog from your hand should you draw it, weakens the Glimpse plan somewhat and probably cannot be run alongside Sylvan Messengers efficiently. Also, having 4 mana + creatures + bomb on hand is already a pretty good hand, and being able to get to 11 mana is also a pretty good indicator that your opponent has run out of removal (getting Symbiote/Messenger here and swarming out usually enough to win in these situations anyway).

Likewise, the deck i posted at least doesn't have the mana curve to abuse Vial efficiently, and since the deck already cheats on mana naturally, have quite the few antisynergistic cards and can usually overwhelm countermagic anyway I don't really see how it furthers the general strategy of the deck (create lots of mana -> draw lots of cards -> swarm) overall. Do tell me how it pans out!

[Koby]

Since Corcordant Crossroads is already in the deck, and this deck is capable of producing an absurd amount of mana, and with the added effect of GSZ - Terastadon would be a good substitute for Progenitus. If you target your lands, you can get 18 power worth of creatures for 8 mana.

[Augustas]

not to be rude or something, but why you needed to create another combo elves thread when there's already one? This is just a little bit updated combo elf build, nothing more.

[Koby]

not to be rude or something, but why you needed to create another combo elves thread when there's already one? This is just a little bit updated combo elf build, nothing more.

The Combo Elves focuses on Glimpe of Nature and eschews playing with GSZ. The two cards play differently. Whereas Glimpse seeks to play hyper-efficient creatures (1 mana) in order to combo off in one turn, this deck uses GSZ to power out incrementally larger threats. It allows you to ramp into more and more powerful cards to recover card advantage (Messenger, et al).

This difference is subtle, but plays completely different with proper deck construction.

[ZeinVoncy]

I might be missing something here, but you guys are talking about using bounty to give +1/+1 three times to Joraga which gives all the rest of the elves +3/+3 right? If that is so doesn't Joraga require +1/+1 counters which bounty does not give. Am I forgetting something?

"Card Text: You may remove a green card in your hand from the game instead of paying Bounty of the Hunt's casting cost.
Put three +1/+1 counters, distributed any way you choose, on any number of target creatures.
Remove these counters at end of turn.

Oracle Text: You may exile a green card from your hand rather than pay Bounty of the Hunt's mana cost.
Distribute three +1/+1 counters among one, two, or three target creatures. For each +1/+1 counter you put on a creature this way, remove a +1/+1 counter from that creature at the beginning of the next cleanup step."

Just to clarify. Would only be good for that combat step.

[Neil]

"Card Text: You may remove a green card in your hand from the game instead of paying Bounty of the Hunt's casting cost.
Put three +1/+1 counters, distributed any way you choose, on any number of target creatures.
Remove these counters at end of turn.

Oracle Text: You may exile a green card from your hand rather than pay Bounty of the Hunt's mana cost.
Distribute three +1/+1 counters among one, two, or three target creatures. For each +1/+1 counter you put on a creature this way, remove a +1/+1 counter from that creature at the beginning of the next cleanup step."

Just to clarify. Would only be good for that combat step.

I was looking at the magiccards.info card picture

http://www.magiccards.info/query?q=b...v=card&s=cname

[Koby]

So I played a variant of Elf Advantage in a Daily Event on MTGO to a 4-0 finish with 27 participants.

List:
14 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle

4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Priest of Titania
4 Elvish Visionary
3 Elvish Archdruid

4 Wirewood Symbiote

1 Viridian Shaman
1 Masked Admirers
1 Wood Elves
1 Joraga Warcaller
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Regal Force
1 Terastodon

2 Summoner's Pact
4 Glimpse of Nature

Sideboard
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Fecundity
2 Nature's Claim
3 Krosan Grip
3 Vexing Shusher

This is essentially an update on my old Survival list, but cutting the Heritage Druid/Nettle Sentinel combo to enable a more incremental approach. The choice of not running fetchland is strictly for Wood Elves as a way to recycle him via Wirewood Symbiote.

I do miss Concordant Crossroads, and it would immensely help out the alpha-strikes vs control, but alas, I didn't run them. Summoner's Pact is still pretty sick with all the lords, and will be essential to tutor up the Viridian Shaman vs the new artifact decks.

Round 1 - Affinity (2-1)
Game 1 (D) - Hand: 2x Forest, Fyndhorn Elves, Llanowar Elves, Wirewood Symbiote, Masked Admirers, Fauna Shaman
Fauna Shaman -> Viridian Shaman + Wirewood Symbiote. Destroy 2 artifacts per turn.

Game 2 (D) - Hand: Forest, Fyndhorn Elves, 2x Wirewood Symbiote, Fauna Shaman, Quirion Ranger, Elvish Visionary
Lose to a quick Ornithopter + Cranial Plating

Game 3 (P) - Hand: Forest, Llanowar Elves, 3x Elvish Visionary, Priest of Titania, Nature's Claim
Turn 3 Emrakul.

Round 2 - BW Discard (2-0)
Game 1 (D) - Hand: 2x Forest, 2x Elvish Archdruid, Llanowar Elves, Fyndhorn Elves, Glimpse of Nature
Aggro beatdown with Symbiote providing advantage when it can. Glimpse seals the deal. (1st one is taken with discard)

Game 2 (D) - Hand: 2x Forest, Fyndhorn Elves, Glimpse of Nature, Wirewood Symbiote, Elvish Archdruid, Masked Admirers
Grind out card advantage with Visionaries and Masked Admirers. Fecundity means he can't ever win attrition wars, and I finish up with Ezuri providing overruns.

Round 3 - Aggro Bant (2-1)
Game 1 (P) - Hand: Forest, Fyndhorn Elves, Llanowar Elves, 2x Fauna Shaman, Priest of Titania, Elvish Archdruid
Elf, meet StP. Elf, meet FoW. Priest, meet no resistance, Glimpse and go off. Attack for 39 with 3 guys. :P

Game 2 (D) - Hand (mull a no-lander): 3x Forest, Llanowar Elves, Krosan Grip, Glimpse of Nature.
Bait some Glimpses, he fights over them, I play a few guys then run out of mana. He plays a Jitte while I'm trying to ramp to 15 mana for the topdecked Emrakul. :/

Game 3 (P) - Hand: Forest, Gaea's Cradle, Wirewood Symbiote, Quirion Ranger, Fyndhorn Elves, Priest of Titania, Fauna Shaman
Fauna Shaman and Wirewood meet removal, then I topdeck Masked Admirers and grind out card advantage vs his attackers, recycling Admirers about 3-4 times. Finally draw Ezuri and win with overrun damage.

Round 4 - UW Cb/Thopters (2-1)
Game 1 (P) - Hand: 4x Forest, Elvish Visionary, Wood Elves, Elvish Archdruid
He gets Counterbalance out turn 2, and I can't resolve any more spells. Jace finished me off.

Game 2 (P) - Hand: 2x Forest, Gaea's Cradle, Thorns of Amethyst, Fauna Shaman, Elvish Archdruid, Nature's Claim
I resolve Thorns, which slows him down a ton, then resolve a Fauna Shaman. Fortunately, I draw an Emrakul the same turn, and hard cast it on turn 5. Mise!

Game 3 (D) - Hand: 3x Forest, Llanowar Elves, Fyndhorn Elves, Quirion Ranger, Vexing Shusher
Long story short: he ran out of time between EE/Recursion and Jace, and while he had the kill, he didn't have enough time to claim it. I win with 15 minutes on my clock to his 0.

Let me know if you're interested in any explanations or more info.

EDIT: For those who like a ton of information, here's some notes and chicken stratch:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...CJng08AK#gid=0

[Infinitium]

Congrats! How did Masked Admirers work out for you? I haven't seen anyone use them sans survival. How do they compare to Sylvan Messenger in the 4cc spot?

[Koby]

I haven't tested with Sylvan Messenger in this deck yet, but I can tell you that when I've got a Fauna Shaman on the board, and trying to keep up with removal that Masked Admirers help to recoup card advantage. He also allows you to continue cycling him thru Wirewood Symbiote through 1 Engineered Plague; granted not as good as Sylvan Messenger, but the ability to reuse him with Fauna Shaman is the primary focus here.

In essence, he's a Squee with the Elf subtype :)

[GGoober]

I came to my conclusion that Elven Advantage is superior to Elf combo. The reason (my personal opinion so please correct me if I'm flawed).

Elves is a deck that can and should consistently beat Merfolks/Gobs unless Perish is involved. In the combo version, you could go off much faster before they can get Perish online, which is a plus, but the combo version is more prone to disruption (hand/counter). Elven Advantage has a better attrition war since it plays more card-advantage engines instead of being entirely reliant on Glimpse (it could utilize the power of GSZ as a mid/late-game).

Since both combo and Elven Advantage lose majority of the games to combo, it would be good to forgo the combo matchup and focus on winning the conrol matchup, which Elven advantage is better at.

I maybe wrong, but this is my opinion on the list. I personally think that an Elf list should always be playing GSZ. There is no reason not to since it's both a tutor, tightens the maindeck, and elves have the ability to break GSZ more than any other deck given that the 'x' cost in GSZ is not a big issue for elves. Combo Elves probably cannot afford GSZ since they are focused on speed.

[(nameless one)]

Hey ruckus,

Congrats on the win.

Does Masked Admirers really work? And is Glimpse really that better than Messenger or you're just doing it to improve your curve?

Hopefully we'll hear more from you.