[Deck] Elven Advantage

[GrimLavamancer]

standard combo, last time I checked, runs Nettle Sentinel, Emrakul, only one Joraga and not all times, plus Summoner Pact... how can this compare?

It seems this dude chose the package of Mirror Entity over Concordant crossroad, and then snapped in the Vengevine Side Plan, but it's miles away from the standard combo elves.

[Kich867]

standard combo, last time I checked, runs Nettle Sentinel, Emrakul, only one Joraga and not all times, plus Summoner Pact... how can this compare?

It seems this dude chose the package of Mirror Entity over Concordant crossroad, and then snapped in the Vengevine Side Plan, but it's miles away from the standard combo elves.

It compares because it's basically the same thing. Elf lists that aren't terrible don't run that many lords, or, alternatively, they focus on lords and untappers. That's all that list is, drop a lord > mirror entity > infinite out and win. I've dropped nettle sentinels out of my elf combo list occasionally--the deck doesn't perform that differently I just didn't like how prone to removal lords were and enjoyed the explosiveness of the nettle-heritage win.

Fauna Shaman Vengevine plan has been around for months, as has mirror entity (which I feel is a stronger list than mono green anyways). Wren's Run Packmaster is probably the only interesting addition to the deck.

Which, actually, is kind of a cool way to semi-infinite out? Use ranger, champion ranger, bounce packmaster, use ranger, bounce packmaster, use ranger, and so on. You could get several extra uses out of ranger given the land. I don't really see the point of it in general though, as you could similarly just go infinite with mirror entity and swing for a bagillion damage.

[igri_is_a_bk]

I'm failing to see the point of the lone Viridan Zealot now. The only enchantment this deck cares about is Engineered Plague, right? And the Zealot can't help there. The curve looks very high for Counterbalance to hurt, plus nobody plays Cb. Moat I have never seen in over four years of Legacy, so what else? Seems like a wasted slot to me. Viridian Shaman deserves a spot, but not the Zealot. That list you posted agrees with me.

Talking about that list, less than four Symbiote looks very wrong. That's my favorite card in Elves and is easily the most impressive individual creature.

[GrimLavamancer]

I agree Igri, I have not played Zealot since a while, I never find it needed.
And About the 4th Symbiote... I Guess it was just one of those personal choices, sometimes you do not want to lose an elf that could have attacked, but most of time this is not a problem for us since we have Crossroad to give them all haste.

[Infinitium]

Well, I've had to (reluctantly) agree that VZ doesn't pull it's weight either. It was mainly in as a last ditch resort for CB back when I first started to play around with this. It has some extra utility compared to VS, and occasionally it is nice to have 2 answers to artifacts MD but yeah. Tech of yesteryear. Tried cutting it a whilse back as well and don't really see the need to return to it as it is.

As for that list it's rather confusing I'd say. No Elven Visionary for one thing, so it cannot actually generate card advantage outside of Glimpse for one thing. Lots of mana outlets though. Not sure if the splashes are worth it since Wasteland/Stifle with removal looks like it will get that deck hard, and it isn't like he doesn't run on-color alternatives to Entity. The 3 WS is probably due to the lack of Visionaries, and around 6 untappers to 8 big mana Elves is around the correct ratio in testing. QR is probably better in this deck since it protects the mana sources. Not Symbiote good, but I see where he's coming from.

I've used Packmaster as MD sweeper insurance and general mana outlet/standalone threat. It isn't bad, but quite pricey at 4cc and an Elf, and at that point you might just bite the opportunity cost and go for Natural Order MD.

[GrimLavamancer]

anyone else has abismal to depressing performances against reanimator main deck (and post sideboard too if you are not running more than 4 graveyard hate???)

[Infinitium]

Try running Ooze maindecked. It's fairly broken with GSZ, and has good synergy with the deck overall what with the average life expectancy of the elves. Seeing as pretty much all card advantage engines, recursive removal and fat creatures are dependent on the GY as well it's hard to justify not running it in this meta (I noticed I sideboarded it in versus pretty much anything anyhow). I'm having it replace Sylvan Messenger for now to see how well it fares, but it's all good so far. Other than that siding in Faerie Macabre (and Emrakul to mise S&T) and praying for a semi-decent hand is the best you can hope for, and it's still very much an uphill fight sadly.

Still not happy with the SB, currently trying out 2 Vengevines and the full 4 Essence Wardens for now. Having Vengevines to push through the last points of damage versus control is pretty cool once you've exhausted their spot removal, and Essence Warden is just very good to stall into the mid to lategame versus aggressive decks in general. It's even "good" versus storm combo since it can mess up their math some, and it effectively shuts of EtW as a viable win condition. Not very subtle but what the hell. It works.

[GrimLavamancer]

Hi guys, how are you doing?
I kept playing the deck, since I find it very solid, but recently I've experienced the need of some kind of removal main deck... I mean, something that could solve troublesome cards like Peacekeeper, Blazing Archon, and elesh, also, moat, Solitary Confinement, and so on, you get the picture:

Obviously, vs reanimator, the key should be to either beat them in speed (hard) or just drop the match up on the first game, and go for the sideboard, and usually emrakul should solve the others problem post side.... yet, isn't there any other option?


This is my current list:

Mana Dork (16)
4 Llanowar elves
4 heritage druid
4 priest of titania
4 elvish archdruid

Untapers (7)
4 Wirewood symbiote
3 Quirion Ranger

Toolbox (7)
1 Viridian Sciaman
4 Joraga Warcaller
2 Concordant Crossroads

Draw&search (12)
4 Green sun's zenith
4 Glimpse of nature
4 Elvish Visionary

Lands (17)
10 Forest
1 Dryad arbor
2 Verdant catacomb
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Gaea's Cradle

For 59 cards:

I usually run 61 cards, but I do not know what to add to solve alleviate those problem maindeck, nor in sideboard:

I thought about running:

Ezuri + Elvish champion, going the classic aggro route, but they do not help vs said cards.

Or Fierce Empath + either Emrakul or Ulamog

But I am not too sure about those either, it seems Ulamog could deal better with those cards... yet both are somehow slow.
Is that empath strategy any good in your opinion guys?
I can say it works by itself, I am not sure if it's worthy though.


For the sideboard I currently have:

4 Faerie Macabre
3 Krosan Grip
3 Thorn of amethyst
1 Duplicant
1 Emrakul (if not in main deck)

And then I would have something to deal with mass removal:
I tryed Caller of the claw but it wasn't so helpfull, any other idea?

[Infinitium]

If you want removal MD your best bet is probably Living Wish into either Masticore or Rath's Edge (if you're super paranoid about having your wish target countered). Gilt-Leaf Archdruid MD is also an option if you don't mind 5cc cards and want a way to deal with Peacekeeper (as the opponent cannot pay the upkeep without Lands). Emrakul deals with the Enchantments you mentioned (also best played with Living Wish since dead cards MD without Survival is pretty much a no-go).

Elesh/Archon are better dealt with using Graveyard hate (Show&Tell decks are proabably a lost cause either way). I dislike Empath since it's a Grey Ogre at anything less than 7+ mana, and at that point pretty much any tutor usually wins you the game anyway.

[igri_is_a_bk]

What about Beast Within in the board? A single 3/3 is not going to break the lines of Elves and it solves everything. Well, everything not pro-green or shroud or hexproof.

[Infinitium]

It's not bad, but the only permanents that you care about are the ones that directly keep you from winning, and between Krosan Grip and Emrakul that only leaves Peacekeeper and some assorted Reanimator critters that BW exclusively targets. I currently run 1x Emrakul, 3x Krosan Grip along with 1 Rath's Edge and 4 Faerie Macabre to deal with all of the above, but if you're desperate for SB space I guess BW could save a spot or two in that configuration.

[GrimLavamancer]

so do you now run a living wish build infinitium?

[Infinitium]

Nah. I run 1x Viridian Shaman and Scavenging Ooze MD to be fetched with GSZ and apart from that just don't care enough what my opponent is doing to bother with additional targeted hate. Wish isn't a bad card, and the sideboard spots it takes are largely a non-issue but it is slow and the obvious flex spots it competes for in my current build (aforementioned Shaman/Ooze) are incidentally the most applicable silver bullets in the majority of matchups. Going from 5 virtual copies of those MD to 2-3 for an extra mana hurts, even if you get extra Emrakul, Cradle and removal (none of which are strictly needed but sometimes convenient) MD in the bargain.

Bottom line is Wish is good, GSZ is better and it's hard to fit both unless you're willing to drop your GSZ bullets MD (postboard this is less of a problem since you can then just side out your Wishes for whatever targets you want in that particular matchup and use GSZ to get them).