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Thread: Knightaclysm

  1. #1

    Knightaclysm

    INTRODUCTION:

    The aim of this thread is to discuss and develop a competitive deck based on a current casual design. The deck as it stands is a knight-themed white weenie variant that plays an aggro-control game rather than pure aggro. The environment I currently play in is casual, with the occasional tournament that leans heavily toward the lower end of the budget spectrum, so my aim is to create a fun, synergistic build that, while at home in casual, has a decent chance when it goes toe to toe with a tourney-level deck. While I could probably just construct and tune the deck for my current meta, I'd like to request the help of the more experienced deck builders here to come up with something that flies in more than just my little corner of the world.

    Decklist:




    Lands (20):

    6 Plains
    4 Temple Garden
    4 Windswept Heath
    4 Flagstones of Trokair
    1 Wasteland
    1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

    Creatures (18):

    4 Student of Warfare
    4 Figure of Destiny
    3 Knight of the Reliquary
    3 Mirran Crusader
    2 Knight of Meadowgrain
    2 Silver Knight

    Instants and Sorceries (17):
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Condemn
    4 Tithe
    3 Enlightened Tutor
    4 Cataclysm

    Artifacts and Enchantments (6):
    1 Rule of Law
    1 Ghostly Prison
    1 Oblivion Ring
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Crucible of Worlds

    Sideboard:
    1 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 CoP: Red
    2 Serenity
    2 Sacred Ground
    1 Ivory Mask
    2 Ghostly Prison
    2 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Tormod's Crypt




    Latest Revised Tested List:



    Lands (20):


    6 Plains
    4 Temple Garden
    4 Windswept Heath
    4 Flagstones of Trokair
    1 Wasteland
    1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All


    Creatures (18):

    4 Student of Warfare
    1 Mother of Runes
    1 Figure of Destiny
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    4 Silver Knight
    2 Mirran Crusader
    2 Stoneforge Mystic

    Instants and Sorceries (14):
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Tithe
    3 Enlightened Tutor
    4 Cataclysm

    Artifacts and Enchantments (9):
    1 Rule of Law
    1 Ghostly Prison
    1 Oblivion Ring
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    3 Mox Diamond

    Sideboard:
    1 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Runed Halo
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    1 Serenity
    2 Ghostly Prison
    2 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Tormod's Crypt



    Testing Notes:

    Mirran Crusader is a good finisher, but the deck needs more warm bodies earlier against aggro. Being bolt-proof, Silver Knight fits the role best despite being a lackluster beater.

    Mox Diamond works like a beauty, synergizing with Tithe, KotR, and Cataclysm and allowing for Rule of Law or Ghostly Prison on turn 2, which is very good against combo and aggro, respectively. You don't really want multiples tho, so 3 is enough.

    Aether Vial doesn't work too well since Mox Diamond is more useful, hence the one you want to have at least 3 of, and there are usually more important targets for Enlightened Tutor. Same thing goes for Ancient Den - it's something you almost never want to tutor for.

    You want to see multiple Flagstones in a game, if only to buff KotR, so the correct number is 4.



    Strategy:

    Against aggro, the deck wants to cast cheap threats that force the opponent to either use removal or commit heavily to the board in an attempt to race. It then wants to drop one of its three-drop creatures and then Cataclysm to seal the win. In cases where the aggro is explosive enough to kill by turn 3-4, the plan is to stall with strategic removal long enough to tutor up a silver bullet answer with Enlightened Tutor (Ghostly Prison, Rule of Law) and then mop up their crew with Cataclysm, after which we can cast our beaters and go for the win.

    Against control, we want to draw their answers out using cheap threats, hopefully resolving a Knight of the Reliquary, which then tutors for a Boseiju and allows us a foolproof Cataclysm. This is usually enough to win the game.

    Against combo, Enlightened Tutor serves to find an answer, usually Rule of Law for storm-based builds and any other combos that want to cast multiple spells in a single turn.


    Strengths:

    The toolbox options of Knight of the Reliquary and Enlightened Tutor allow a wide variety of answers to be played. The mana costs also make Counterbalance a very iffy proposition, and the presence of double strikers in the same deck with Jitte and SofI make for a very fast clock if unanswered.

    Weaknesses:

    Play needs to be a lot more strategic than your typical white weenie, and decks that win on turn 2-3 are a bit of a challenge to find answers for, as well as decks that drop Progenitus.


    Individual Cards:


    Flagstones of Trokair: A key card that combos well with Cataclysm and can be abused by Knight of the Reliquary for library thinning and pumping itself.

    Wasteland: Tutorable with KotR and is great after Cataclysm, especially with Crucible in play (Wastelock).

    Boseiju, Who Shelters All: Cataclysm insurance

    Student of Warfare: Starts beating turn 2, trumps Nacatl, Kird Ape, et al, and demands an answer or eventually deals 8 per turn even without equipment.

    Figure of Destiny: Less likely to fully level than Student, but 4/4 is fine especially for a post-Cata beater.

    Knight of the Reliquary: The deck's main threat, both loves and enables Cataclysm

    Mirran Crusader: Yes, it's a new card that isn't even out yet, but I've tried Skyhunter Skirmisher with Jitte before, and that was the bomb if you could pull it off. This is less fragile and is a better threat solo, though it's a bit less evasive.

    Knight of Meadowgrain/Silver Knight: Ironically for white, the 2-mana spot seems to be the weakest in this deck, though these do help against red. Hopefully, suggestions or future expansions will remedy this.

    Swords to Plowshares/Condemn: While PtE might be a more beatdown option, it helps the opponent recover lands after a Cataclysm, which we don't want to do, hence these 2.

    Tithe: Thins the deck, ensures you have mana for Cataclysm recovery and to drop KotR, just makes the deck do what it does more consistently.

    Enlightened Tutor: The toolbox of toolboxes.

    Cataclysm: King of sweepers - it doesn't matter if they rely on lands, creatures, artifacts, or enchantments. And it deals with planeswalkers too, thanks to the fact that it specifies what you get to retain. Kinda sucks against Progenitus tho, unless you have a Ghostly Prison down as well.



    Sideboard cards: still very much undecided on these, and suggestions are more than welcome.

    That's the gist of it for now. Hope to hear from you guys.
    Last edited by Eldarion; 02-10-2011 at 09:17 AM. Reason: post-testing revisions and notes

  2. #2
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    AlterEgo's Avatar
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    Re: Knightaclysm

    Just some thoughts, not fully thought through:

    4 Flagstones of Trokair - I think four is too much, 2-3 seem okay.

    1 Wasteland - can't decide if I'd want more of these.

    4 Student of Warfare - very mana hungry
    4 Figure of Destiny

    3 Knight of the Reliquary - needs four!

    2 Condemn - Why not Path to Exile? You don't go for mana denial - and once you Cataclysm, that one land is gone, too


    Addition:
    Stoneforge Mystic?
    AEther Vial?
    Leyline of Sanctity instead of Ivory Mask

  3. #3
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    Re: Knightaclysm

    There's a lot of card choices here. Personally, if I were to chose a creature to run that's not a knight, I'd also choose Mother of Runes over Figure of Destiny due to the need for added protection and evasion abilities; the beaters will thank you for this. Let's talk about what you're trying to do with this list. With 6 enchantments, artifacts, does this deck have enough variety to justify running cataclysm - especially considering the lost opportunity cost of running a strong synergy card like Knight Exemplar with other Wrath effects, achieving similar results.

    Overall, I think this deck feels torn between using strong beaters and using tribal. For competitive purposes, if you want to go the singleton, beater cataclysm route, I think there are better cards to chose from than limiting oneself to aggro tribal. Show and Tell decks seem to dedicate themselves more to achieve this route. If you want to go the knight route, midrange aggro/ vial weenie probably a better speciality. Look at it this way, what advantages do knight tribal offer when you're not running the card, Knight Exemplar, that synergies the archtype?

  4. #4

    Re: Knightaclysm

    You're probably right on the Flagstones as I sometimes run out of plains in long games. Will try to cut to 3. Any less might mess up the synergy with Cataclysm tho.

    As to Wasteland, yeah, I sometimes want more but my spells really want colored mana.

    The students are fine as 3/3 most of the time - they either trade or get removed (or get equipped with a Jitte ). I like the idea though of being able to fully level them post-Cata, when the opponent is harder up for answers.

    Ditto on the Reliquaries - I actually play with 4, but with the Mirran Crusader coming in, I felt really tempted to up the chance of getting a Crusader to pick up a Jitte or SoFI. Dunno if I want more than 6 3-drop critters though.

    I've been thinking of Path to Exile, but I usually like to reserve removal for after I Cataclysm so I can take whatever creature he has left. Path to exile here would mean he gets help recovering from Cataclysm. Not that I'm too happy with Condemn either though.

    Stoneforge mystic is probably the answer to my 2-drop dilemma, as well as Tarmogoyf, if I could be less pigheaded about trying to make it all/mostly knights. Since I've gone ahead and stuck in FoD, though, maybe I might as well. Probably won't hop on the goyf bandwagon though.

    Aether vial would be cool, though I'm not sure what I'd take out so I could include it. Good catch on the Leyline. I also figured Runed Halo would be a good stopper for my Progenitus problem. Think it's good enough to have main deck though?

    Thanks for the suggestions! Hope I can playtest them soon.

  5. #5
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    Re: Knightaclysm

    Cut Silver Knight for Deft Duelist.
    Remember that time you left for a few days and your girl stayed behind?

    I kept her company.

  6. #6

    Re: Knightaclysm

    Quote Originally Posted by luckme10 View Post
    There's a lot of card choices here. Personally, if I were to chose a creature to run that's not a knight, I'd also choose Mother of Runes over Figure of Destiny due to the need for added protection and evasion abilities; the beaters will thank you for this. Let's talk about what you're trying to do with this list. With 6 enchantments, artifacts, does this deck have enough variety to justify running cataclysm - especially considering the lost opportunity cost of running a strong synergy card like Knight Exemplar with other Wrath effects, achieving similar results.

    Overall, I think this deck feels torn between using strong beaters and using tribal. For competitive purposes, if you want to go the singleton, beater cataclysm route, I think there are better cards to chose from than limiting oneself to aggro tribal. Show and Tell decks seem to dedicate themselves more to achieve this route. If you want to go the knight route, midrange aggro/ vial weenie probably a better speciality. Look at it this way, what advantages do knight tribal offer when you're not running the card, Knight Exemplar, that synergies the archtype?



    You're right about Mother of Runes being better in a fully committed, nontribal aggro deck, but in some ways my 1-drops are actually removal bait - against fellow aggro I want them to stall their offense or eat up some of the removal, while they pressure the control deck to come up with answers, hopefully allowing more breathing room for my later plays.

    Good catch on the division of strategies - the earliest evolution of this deck is actually Cata Armor: the game plan was to drop a weenie, drop an Empyrial Armor, and cast a Cataclysm, hopefully leaving the opponent staring at a 4/4 or a 6/6 with an empty board. When equipment came in, it became a good solution to the usual answer for Empyrial Armor - swords/bolt/whathaveyou, and you get 2-for-1'd. The basics of the deck remained the same though: the weenies let you have enough critters in the deck to overcome removal and counters (which is the trouble with Show and Tell type decks - they overcommit on their threats and get into trouble when their enabler spell gets blocked) and the pump effects allowed what few critters you had on the field to give you board presence while avoiding overcommitting into board sweepers. Cataclysm basically just combines the Wrath of God you want against swarming aggro with the mana choke you want to apply on control, along with the artifact sweep you want against affinity and artifact-heavy control. Ditto for the enchanter decks. The upshot of this is that the resultant deck isn't really the aggro that white weenie typically is, but rather an aggro-control one that sacrifices speed for versatility and adaptability.

    What has changed though (relatively recently for a dinosaur like me) is that with Wizards finally printing knights with tribal synergies, the knight deck has a chance to become more than just the collection of some of white's best cheap beaters that it used to be. However, I think the speed and threat density of the Knight tribe still isn't strong enough to warrant going full-on tribal with the risk of running into board sweepers and sacrificing utility answer slots for creatures. This means I'll probably stick to the singleton beater route with Cata since I think there are enough strong, relatively cheap beaters that happen to be knights - Reliquary and Mirran Crusader - to enable the strategy.

    Regarding maximizing Cataclysm, though I think the Wrath/Geddon combo it presents is enough to justify it, I also use 3-4 tutors for those 6 artifacts and enchantments, as well as Flagstones, along with a sideboard full of artifact and enchantment answers, so I think there's enough justification for Cata even if you look at it solely from a board-versatility-after-Cata perspective. :)

  7. #7

    Re: Knightaclysm

    Quote Originally Posted by KærvekTheMerciless View Post
    Cut Silver Knight for Deft Duelist.
    That shroud has me tempted, but the blue mana doesn't look too good. Main reason I cut Rafiq of the Many was to simplify the mana requirements.

  8. #8
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    Re: Knightaclysm

    Be that the case, should you decide to run Vial, I have a three for you.

    Knight Of Dawn
    Remember that time you left for a few days and your girl stayed behind?

    I kept her company.

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    Re: Knightaclysm

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarion View Post
    You're right about Mother of Runes being better in a fully committed, nontribal aggro deck, but in some ways my 1-drops are actually removal bait - against fellow aggro I want them to stall their offense or eat up some of the removal, while they pressure the control deck to come up with answers, hopefully allowing more breathing room for my later plays.

    Good catch on the division of strategies - the earliest evolution of this deck is actually Cata Armor: the game plan was to drop a weenie, drop an Empyrial Armor, and cast a Cataclysm, hopefully leaving the opponent staring at a 4/4 or a 6/6 with an empty board. When equipment came in, it became a good solution to the usual answer for Empyrial Armor - swords/bolt/whathaveyou, and you get 2-for-1'd. The basics of the deck remained the same though: the weenies let you have enough critters in the deck to overcome removal and counters (which is the trouble with Show and Tell type decks - they overcommit on their threats and get into trouble when their enabler spell gets blocked) and the pump effects allowed what few critters you had on the field to give you board presence while avoiding overcommitting into board sweepers. Cataclysm basically just combines the Wrath of God you want against swarming aggro with the mana choke you want to apply on control, along with the artifact sweep you want against affinity and artifact-heavy control. Ditto for the enchanter decks. The upshot of this is that the resultant deck isn't really the aggro that white weenie typically is, but rather an aggro-control one that sacrifices speed for versatility and adaptability.

    What has changed though (relatively recently for a dinosaur like me) is that with Wizards finally printing knights with tribal synergies, the knight deck has a chance to become more than just the collection of some of white's best cheap beaters that it used to be. However, I think the speed and threat density of the Knight tribe still isn't strong enough to warrant going full-on tribal with the risk of running into board sweepers and sacrificing utility answer slots for creatures. This means I'll probably stick to the singleton beater route with Cata since I think there are enough strong, relatively cheap beaters that happen to be knights - Reliquary and Mirran Crusader - to enable the strategy.

    Regarding maximizing Cataclysm, though I think the Wrath/Geddon combo it presents is enough to justify it, I also use 3-4 tutors for those 6 artifacts and enchantments, as well as Flagstones, along with a sideboard full of artifact and enchantment answers, so I think there's enough justification for Cata even if you look at it solely from a board-versatility-after-Cata perspective. :)
    First of all, thank you Eldarion. This is once of the most well thought out responses I've ever had the pleasure to read. While I may disagree with some choices, you've wonderfully addressed all my concerns and even gave some history into understanding not just deck choices, but its directional evolution. I'll get back to you when I'm not so charmed by this charismatic response..

  10. #10

    Re: Knightaclysm

    Quote Originally Posted by KærvekTheMerciless View Post
    Be that the case, should you decide to run Vial, I have a three for you.

    Knight Of Dawn
    LOL. Funny thing - that was actually the first knight I used with this deck, back in the day. I was still using Empyrial Armor then. Had to cut it when I had to balance Timmy coolness with a bit of mana curving, and two mana was hard to keep open when you were casting other stuff, but you're right - if I go the vial route, this would be right up there with Mirran Crusader. And I still have a playset of em somewhere. :) First thing I want to try is that Stoneforge Mystic though. She may not be a knight, but she gives Mirran Crusader some pretty toys to hack away with.

  11. #11
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    Re: Knightaclysm

    In the meantime, what about the following:
    Knight of the White Orchid >Tithe
    Vial> knight of the meadowgrain/silver knight
    Same number of knights... still have CA and deck thinning. vial knight of the white orchid like playing tithe against fetchlands.



    Absolute Law> CoP: Red

  12. #12

    Re: Knightaclysm

    Quote Originally Posted by luckme10 View Post
    In the meantime, what about the following:
    Knight of the White Orchid >Tithe
    Vial> knight of the meadowgrain/silver knight
    Same number of knights... still have CA and deck thinning. vial knight of the white orchid like playing tithe against fetchlands.



    Absolute Law> CoP: Red
    Might try that though I initially didn't want Orchid knights since they put the land in play and you like to keep a land in your hand to lay after cataclysm. Tithe also makes one-land hands more than playable. Absolute Law looks interesting though Red Deck Wins is big in my meta and that deck sends its burn to the face.

  13. #13

    Re: Knightaclysm

    Quote Originally Posted by luckme10 View Post
    First of all, thank you Eldarion. This is once of the most well thought out responses I've ever had the pleasure to read. While I may disagree with some choices, you've wonderfully addressed all my concerns and even gave some history into understanding not just deck choices, but its directional evolution. I'll get back to you when I'm not so charmed by this charismatic response..
    LOL. Thanks for the compliment. I know some of my card choices aren't optimal since this started as a pet tribal deck, but most of the non-knight cards actually went in there after a good bit of testing in my own little meta, and the knights I ended up picking are actually the leanest and the meanest around since I've tested with all the rest. You might want to try the deck out, see how it runs. Though it's pretty straightforward and you can play it to unwind from testing whatever tricksy stack you're currently brewing, some things are easier to see in actual play.

  14. #14

  15. #15

    Re: Knightaclysm

    Maybe a Pithing Needle maindeck to fight off opposing Vials? If your opponent has an Aether Vial he/she could develop an army again. Or you could run Seal of Cleansing I suppose if you don't want to cut off your own Aether Vial.

    Since you run green you could use Oxidize for that aswell I suppose.

    Running 4 Students of Warfare and 3 Figure of Destiny seems to be a bit overdoing it. You'll often end up with 2 of these mana sinks while you'd be much better off having just the Student. So maybe cut out another Figure or all three of them for2 Mother of Runes who could protect your Knights of the Reliquary (which I really like in here) and what should be 4 Mirran Crusaders (don't want to be low on threats).

    You already stated that you used your one drops to stall off your opponents/eat removal. Although Mother of Runes might not seem like a threat to you, it does feel like it if there is one on the opposing side of the board. They typically eat any removal your opponent has rightaway. On the other hand, if they don't ... You now have a useful creature to help protect your meaner knights.

    I really like the deck. I hope it works out for you :)

  16. #16
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    Re: Knightaclysm

    I'd probably want 1 or 2 of the white artifact land. It can work with an enlightened tutor, and it works well with cataclysm, if you don't have an equipment out.

    I'll echo what someone else brought up above, i'd love to see Knight Exemplar in here, it is just so cool with Cata or in multiples.

    If RDWins is huge in your area, why not throw in some Kor Fire Walkers into the board? not a knight but certainly ridiculous against that deck.

  17. #17

    Re: Knightaclysm

    @Nameless Two:

    My out against opposing artifacts and enchantments is a singleton Oblivion Ring, though I'd love to find room for a Pithing Needle maindeck.

    Yup, Mother of Runes for Figures of Destiny seems to be the sensible choice, never mind how much my inner TImmy howls at the substitution, and I suppose 8 3cc critters isn't too much if you're running vial. And yes, Knights of the Reliquary are the bomb here, coming down 6/6 or better post-cata usually. :)

    Thanks for the suggestions; glad you like the deck, and hope you can help me test it, see how/if it works in your meta.

    @ReAnimator

    That singleton Ancient Den sounds like a great idea, though ideally I'd have an Aether vial with a few counters on it by the time I cataclysm.

    Sadly, Cata's board sweep is sacrificial in wording, so Knight Exemplar wouldn't be able to help preserve your horde against it. It is great in multiples, but I don't think tribal knights have hit critical mass yet for Legacy. I may be wrong - that accorder paladin looks interesting, for one - but there just don't seem to be enough lords or synergy for a successful tribal legacy deck. I mean, look at how many lords merfolk have, never mind the explosive synergies of elves and goblins. Even the fae, with their spellstutter-bitterblossom-mistbind mojo, don't seem to work as a tribal legacy deck (though I'm brewing something that might help change that. ;) ) Maybe in Standard, though . . .

    Kor Firewalkers are an option, as are a good number of other critters, like Burrenton Forge-Tender, but I'm thinking I want to keep my sideboard as artifacts and enchantments since they benefit from the MD enlightened tutors and creatures would take up space, needing multiples to be effective.

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    Re: Knightaclysm

    So I am not sure if why this deck goes tribal, I mean I can't see any lords in the list. Aren't there better white weenies out there for a list like this, at least for a couple of the dudes. Anyway it looks kinda fun to play, but perhaps some card drawing could keep the gas up in the deck. Seeing that you already pack green and some lifegain(Jitte and the kithkin knight) perhaps Sylvan Library could improve the list. Might also put some Horizon Canopy in the list for some extra draw and love for KotR.

  19. #19

    Re: Knightaclysm

    @muscleb:

    The quick answer to the tribal question is that that's part of what makes it fun to play. :)

    Specifics on the latest version I'mtesting below:

    The original deck for this is actually what tribal was before the word tribal was coined to describe it: the very first tournament-winning white weenie played something like 8 pump knights and a set of white knights. Since all those knights are obsolete, this is an attempt to update that. With the current list though, I don't think there are any better white weenies on a power-to-cost basis: Mirran Crusader's 4 damage for 3 mana, never mind what happens when he picks up a jitte or a sword. There's a good reason Knight of the Reliquary's in a lot of competitive lists, and Cataclysm adds to that list of reasons. For the latest list posted above, with the changes I agreed to making in the thread, that leaves Mother of Runes, Stoneforge Mystic, and Student of Warfare. I don't think we need to discuss Mother of Runes and the Mystic since they see a lot of play in highly competitive decks. (In this particular deck Mystic's really useful for the uncounterable equipment.) Student of Warfare might be debatable, but it's pretty solid for being able to swing for 3 on turn 2 and trump nacatl, kird ape, and a lot of other early plays. Basically the deck wants to have creatures that can own the field after a Cataclysm and I think most of these do that or help the deck get to that goal.

    About the Canopy, I'd use it if I didn't sometimes run out of plains for my fetches and tithes and flagstones. Sylvan library sounds like a good idea though. I'll see if I can't find a spot for that one.

  20. #20
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    Re: Knightaclysm

    Overall, I think this deck feels torn between using strong beaters and using tribal. For competitive purposes, if you want to go the singleton, beater cataclysm route, I think there are better cards to chose from than limiting oneself to aggro tribal. Show and Tell decks seem to dedicate themselves more to achieve this route. If you want to go the knight route, midrange aggro/ vial weenie probably a better speciality. Look at it this way, what advantages do knight tribal offer when you're not running the card, Knight Exemplar, that synergies the archtype?
    What has changed though (relatively recently for a dinosaur like me) is that with Wizards finally printing knights with tribal synergies, the knight deck has a chance to become more than just the collection of some of white's best cheap beaters that it used to be. However, I think the speed and threat density of the Knight tribe still isn't strong enough to warrant going full-on tribal with the risk of running into board sweepers and sacrificing utility answer slots for creatures. This means I'll probably stick to the singleton beater route with Cata since I think there are enough strong, relatively cheap beaters that happen to be knights - Reliquary and Mirran Crusader - to enable the strategy.
    I see the flavor going Knights, but I don't really see the synergy or point. If you're going to have nearly all Knights why not just go Knight Exemplar and Day of Judgement ... Vial in your 1cc 2cc Knights like Meadowgrain or Knight of the Holy Nimbus would actually be a great choice with Day. Prophyral Nodes would actually work pretty awesome with Exemplar with the indestructibility, too, and holding off against early rush tribals you'd rape them since you get to choose if tied in power.

    When I think abusing Cataclysm I'd do it way different, I think of cards like Weathered Wayfarer or splashing red for Greater Gargadon to sacrafice permanents in response to clysm or removal, would also work with Trokair; Wayfarer would help you fetch for any land back in response, including wastes maze etc. Just my 2-cents
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