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Thread: [Deck] Goblins

  1. #5141
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoCop 90 View Post
    I think it is wrong to state this. It is especially wrong if it's based only in the few rounds you played last tournament. Probably you have playtested it a lot, but I'm saying this because I often see tournament reports ending with "this is better than that" or "this is useless", and so on. It's only to remind that every card needs to be playtested a lot and against different decks, and some cards can't even be compared, such as (this is my personal opinion) tarfire and lightning bolt. Neither of them is strictly better than the other, because sometimes you could need to tutor for tarfire or you'd be happy to draw it off ringleader, but other times you just need that one more damage from lightning bolt. I think in the end it's just a question of personal taste ( I prefer tarfire aniway ).
    I absolutely agree with you. I should have made my point clear, which was

    "On this tournament Tarfire was strictly better than Lightning Bolt whenever I drew it/netted it with Ringleader."

    Actually all the points I wrote unde rthe head of "Thoughts" were reffering to this tournaments. I need to take more time to watch my words when I'm writing reports...
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  2. #5142

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Hello again! I wanted to ask a question pertaining to certain decks I went against when I played at a local "funzeez" tournament. I got stomped, no, OBLITERATED by Esper StoneForge deck! I could not counter the damn girl, Jitte weapon always got me, Swords of Plowshares got my Goblin Chieftain or Warchief, and Force of Will just denied me the whole time. Had Tarfire, just discarded it from my hand...I did not know what to do.

    Can somebody help me in going against StoneForge...

  3. #5143

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Comments in bold

    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord View Post
    Thoughts
    * Tarfire > Lightning Bolt. I think that this is true for the first one, since you can tutor for it. But after that, it becomes much more quesitonable (basically coming down to needing to tutor for multiple shocks and being 0.02 of a card for ringleader, vs 3 damage and smaller Goyfs)

    * Wanted to have Relic #4, but I don't own it. Filled this slot with Goblin King
    * Goblin King was admittedly good. I might stick to him

    * Chalice + MBTs were not sided in once (due to lack of combo-MUs). However, I won't kick them since I really don't need the SB-slots anyway. You didn't try CotV vs RUG? Why not?

    * I'm thinking about cutting Dismember, don't know what I should run instead. Maybe a Lightning Bolt? Maybe the 4th Gempalm?

    * I did a last-minute change and replace my original Dismember #2 with a Stingscourger, which was a good idea. Agreed

  4. #5144
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoCop 90 View Post
    Speaking about removal spells, I was thinking about our deck these days. Over the years it has almost reached perfection, because we have almost all the cards we need for every casting mana cost. The 2 drops and 3 drops slots are filled,as well with the 4+ slots where we have several choices.
    I just think it would be nice to have another one cost drop, because we now have only lackey, vial and possibly a single prospector.

    I also think we need a better removal spell,because we all know the pros and cons of cards like gempalm,tarfire,bolt, and so on. In particular,we all know that our deck needs a high goblin count to work, but I understood that it also needs a high CREATURE count. The less removal i can play, the more i am happy, because every creature in the deck make the other work better. Assuming this, the only very good removal we have at the moment is Gempalm, since it is a goblin and It replaces itself when used, so that we can draw other creatures from it. For the same reason, in the past i used to run mogg fanatics over tarfire/bolts, but I have to admit that only one damage is not enough.

    So,according to the statements I made ( need a one drop, need a better removal), I really would like wizard to print an upgrade of mogg fanatic. They printed the upgrade of raging goblin with legion loyalist, but we really don't need loyalist in the deck. It can be useful in some situations with piledriver, but most of the time it's a bad card.
    So wizard, why don't you print this?

    Shocking Goblin :
    R
    Sacrifice shocking goblin to deal 2 damages to target creature or player.
    1/1.

    Or , if it would be too broken (which I don't think):
    R
    Sacrifice shocking goblin to deal 2 damages to target creature.
    2/1.

    They recently printed bombs like deathrite shaman and thalia, so I'm not asking too much. And god knows how I wish thalia was a goblin :)
    Regarding removal spells in goblins I have success having 3 PYROKINESIS mainboard, it eats maverick,affinity,elves,d&t and other fair decks alive trust me guys it helped me a lot on my recent top 8's here in our country. Dont think of the card disadvantage from it because ringleader makes up for the card loss and most of the time when you use it it sweeps your opponents board making it a 2 for 1 or even a stunning 3 for 1 hit. Heres my decklist for reference: (theres a typo error there on mainboard -1 piledriver +3 pyrokinesis)- dont flame me on having fetches on a monoR build its just my preference. We have a visitor that day from Germany - Jasper Grimmer plays 4 color deathrite control a very good player, methodological as I may say
    http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...8&iddeck=75283

  5. #5145
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinoy Goblin View Post
    Regarding removal spells in goblins I have success having 3 PYROKINESIS mainboard, it eats maverick,affinity,elves,d&t and other fair decks alive trust me guys it helped me a lot on my recent top 8's here in our country. Dont think of the card disadvantage from it because ringleader makes up for the card loss and most of the time when you use it it sweeps your opponents board making it a 2 for 1 or even a stunning 3 for 1 hit. Heres my decklist for reference: (theres a typo error there on mainboard -1 piledriver +3 pyrokinesis)- dont flame me on having fetches on a monoR build its just my preference. We have a visitor that day from Germany - Jasper Grimmer plays 4 color deathrite control a very good player, methodological as I may say
    http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...8&iddeck=75283
    Pyrokinesis can only two(or more) for one something when you hard cast it, otherwise it costs you two cards (Pyrokinesis + the removed card).

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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Geeksire View Post
    Hello again! I wanted to ask a question pertaining to certain decks I went against when I played at a local "funzeez" tournament. I got stomped, no, OBLITERATED by Esper StoneForge deck! I could not counter the damn girl, Jitte weapon always got me, Swords of Plowshares got my Goblin Chieftain or Warchief, and Force of Will just denied me the whole time. Had Tarfire, just discarded it from my hand...I did not know what to do.

    Can somebody help me in going against StoneForge...
    Death and Taxes? Not an easy deck to beat. For me tho I have 3 sideboard cards I pull out.

    First: Pithing Needle
    This card is useful. Stops planeswalkers, stops Jitte and stops Mystic. The thing about the deck tho is that you need to pick your target. Hitting Mystic might by you some time against Jitte but they might draw it, hit Jitte and they will fetch Sword of Fire and Ice. Still it is a good and cheep card that can help and is good as a reaction to Jitte hitting the table.

    Another card to use is Tuktuk Scrapper
    Ok it is not as cheep as other choices but it is a good due to both the triggered ability and the damage it deals. Also think about what it says. "When scrapper or another Ally enters battle". So if you have one already on the table and you play another you can hit two Artifacts for the price of one card.

    SB Pyroblast
    This and REB are great if you are having issues against blue. FOW can be counted and it is fun to do.

    Last is something else to do if you have not had a chance to SB. If Jitte hits the table play/tutor Skirk Prospector. The reason is that then you can block whatever has Jitte on it and then Sac that creature. If you sac it no damage is delt and thus no tokens. Against removal try Thorn of Amethyst. It is not a perfect fit but it does more damage to them that it will ever do to you. Hope that has helped.

    Dice.

  7. #5147
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Avatara View Post
    Pyrokinesis can only two(or more) for one something when you hard cast it, otherwise it costs you two cards (Pyrokinesis + the removed card).
    we are not on the same page my friend I am refering to the removal issues here on creatures, I dont need to explain furthermore . . .

  8. #5148

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    I also got destroyed by tinfin.

    Game 1 i went mountain lackey, he then played and got a griselbrand in the yard, then back into play, kept drawing and playing with chrome moxes, lotus petals and rituals, and eventually tendrills of agonied me. Game over turn 1,

    Game 2 i sideboarded in RIP, as i was playing a thalia MD list. I drew and had a plateau and RIP in starting 7, and dropped mountain lackey again, he then played and went silly, dropping grisebrand in yard and then back into play, he drew a tonne of cards and thoughtseized my RIP! Although he didn't finish me off that turn it was effectively over.

    My thoughts are i need mindbreak traps, chalices, and leyline of the voids in my SB, whilst thalia maindeck still fine. Of course i'd then not have enough room in SB for other cards v other match ups.

    Thoughts? Is tinfin an auto lose? or do we sacrifice SB slots to protect ourselves v storm, tinfin etc and therefore weaken ourselves v other decks?

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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Pithing Needle can stop the draw. In all tho it sounds like a painful matchup.

  10. #5150
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    went 3 wins 1 loss at a local legacy metagame tonight, only issue was against affinity because you can't block ornithopter's & Signal pests & other flyers that come out so fast and swing with cranial plating. Other match ups were against U/W control running helm combo, Maverick, & BUG aggro.

    The only thing different than most traditional lists was that I was running less 1 of's maindeck for Matron targets, while I also maindecked tarfires.

    10 mountain
    4 rishadan port
    4 wasteland
    4 cavern of souls
    4 aether vial
    3 tarfire
    4 goblin lackey
    4 mogg war marshal
    4 goblin piledriver
    1 stingscourger
    1 krenko, mob boss
    1 siege-gang commander
    4 goblin warchief
    4 gempalm incinerator
    4 goblin matron
    4 goblin ringleader
    -
    2 red elemental blast
    2 pyroblast
    4 relic of progenitus
    1 vexing shusher
    1 stingscourger
    1 goblin sharpshooter
    1 goblin chieftain
    1 goblin king
    1 tuktuk scrapper
    1 tarfire

  11. #5151
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    Comments in bold
    @ Tarfire:
    I didn't tutor one with Matron on that tourney (and I'm unlikely to do so, since Matron most often searches for Ringleaders I guess). What I was saying there is this:
    The tribal*Goyf interaction didn't matter since I didn't target Goyf anyway (and I didn't want to). In fact in one situation I killed a 4/5 Goyf with Tarfire + Relic activation. In this siutuation Bolt wouldn't have been better. I agree that Bolt has it's benefits over Tarfire and I think that is reasonable to play any of them. My personal choice was Tarfire and I was happy with it. That's the whole story.
    I guess I will take my time and put this whole Tarfire/Bolt discussion to an end by writing down all PROs and CONs in the opening-post/primer.

    @ Chalice vs RUG:
    Now that you mention it: I DID side in Chalice against that Niv-Magus/Kiln-Fiend deck. I know from experience that CHalice isn't all too good vs. RUG Threshhold if you have cards like Relic of Progenitus in your board. In this MU I really only side out my Lackeys, which gives me 4 slots. Those 4 cards that come in from the SB should have an immediate board-impact, even if the boardstate is unfavorable for me. What I mean is: I don't want to put down a Chalice when my opponent got more than one beater on the battlefield. Chalice sometimes is a dead draw vs. RUG, where Relic is good in almost all situations as it makes two-thirds of their creatures sit still.
    If I didn't have any Relics or other creatures in SB I would probably bring in Chalice.

    @ #4 Gempalm:
    Never. This card is way too cluncky. I want to have more cc1 removal. 2-3 Gempalms should do the job (in fact I was running 3 Gempalms for the bigger part of my "career" with Goblins, going up to 4 was a try-out-phase without all too impressive results.
    My gut feeling tells me that Mogg Fanatic might be a "nice" replacement - but then again, I#m cutting a card with reach on x/5 creatures for a card that eats x/1 creatures and helps finishing of some creatures here and there. In don't know yet what card it will be, but it's definately gonna be a removal with cc1.


    ---------------
    @ feline:
    could you please post your results of the single games you played? (like: Round 1: 2-1, ROund 2: 2-0 ...)
    I want to record your decklist/results for my analysis.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  12. #5152
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Geeksire View Post
    Hello again! I wanted to ask a question pertaining to certain decks I went against when I played at a local "funzeez" tournament. I got stomped, no, OBLITERATED by Esper StoneForge deck! I could not counter the damn girl, Jitte weapon always got me, Swords of Plowshares got my Goblin Chieftain or Warchief, and Force of Will just denied me the whole time. Had Tarfire, just discarded it from my hand...I did not know what to do.

    Can somebody help me in going against StoneForge...
    Sometimes you just get beat. Tarfire helps against SFM. Tuktuk and TSH help against Equipment. Sharpshooter helps against all their X/1s. And of course Vial does an excellent job giving you extra interactivity with them.

  13. #5153
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by orcanmail View Post
    I also got destroyed by tinfin.

    Game 1 i went mountain lackey, he then played and got a griselbrand in the yard, then back into play, kept drawing and playing with chrome moxes, lotus petals and rituals, and eventually tendrills of agonied me. Game over turn 1,

    Game 2 i sideboarded in RIP, as i was playing a thalia MD list. I drew and had a plateau and RIP in starting 7, and dropped mountain lackey again, he then played and went silly, dropping grisebrand in yard and then back into play, he drew a tonne of cards and thoughtseized my RIP! Although he didn't finish me off that turn it was effectively over.

    My thoughts are i need mindbreak traps, chalices, and leyline of the voids in my SB, whilst thalia maindeck still fine. Of course i'd then not have enough room in SB for other cards v other match ups.

    Thoughts? Is tinfin an auto lose? or do we sacrifice SB slots to protect ourselves v storm, tinfin etc and therefore weaken ourselves v other decks?
    TinFins is not an auto-lose. It's explosive and all that shit, but there are soooo many ways to attack the combo since there are sooooo many pieces to it.

    White
    RiP
    Thalia : They need to cast a bunch of spells to go off. It doesn't really matter if they draw 14 cards off Grizz if they can only cast 1 of them.

    Black
    Leyline of th Void
    Surgical Extraction
    Extirpate
    Discard

    Blue
    Counters

    Colorless
    Chalice of the Void : they run like 15 lands and lots of 0cc mana artifacts.
    Karakas
    Pithing Needle : Can't draw off Grizz
    Grafdigger's Cage

    Red
    Stingscourger

    My current SB has 9 excellent cards against TinFins (3 Chalice, 3 Thalia, 3 RiP) and my maindeck has answers too (Karakas, Stingscourger). You got answers.

  14. #5154

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by orcanmail View Post
    I also got destroyed by tinfin.

    Game 1 i went mountain lackey, he then played and got a griselbrand in the yard, then back into play, kept drawing and playing with chrome moxes, lotus petals and rituals, and eventually tendrills of agonied me. Game over turn 1,

    Game 2 i sideboarded in RIP, as i was playing a thalia MD list. I drew and had a plateau and RIP in starting 7, and dropped mountain lackey again, he then played and went silly, dropping grisebrand in yard and then back into play, he drew a tonne of cards and thoughtseized my RIP! Although he didn't finish me off that turn it was effectively over.

    My thoughts are i need mindbreak traps, chalices, and leyline of the voids in my SB, whilst thalia maindeck still fine. Of course i'd then not have enough room in SB for other cards v other match ups.

    Thoughts? Is tinfin an auto lose? or do we sacrifice SB slots to protect ourselves v storm, tinfin etc and therefore weaken ourselves v other decks?
    The key cards that matter in our deck are not red :)

    Karakas, RIP, Thalia and CotV are what I go with vs them. I MD Karakas and the Thalias, which gives me enough hate cards vs them while also giving me cards vs other matchups.

    This is my current SB:
    4 CotV
    4 RIP
    3 Pyrokinesis
    3 Oblivion Ring
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    Last edited by magicmerl; 03-25-2013 at 08:57 PM.

  15. #5155
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Round 1 was against Maverick, game 1 I had to mulligan more so than I have in a long time, I wasn't seeing land until I went to 4, it was dumb. The game was a loss as expected, however I did slowly start to catch up via card advantage with ringleader, however they eventually got out an Umezawa's Jitte & even though I was catching up, that just put the nail on the coffin so to speak and at that point I knew it was over.
    ~Game 2 & game 3 were both wins, the only specifics I can recall is that I know I brought in a Tuktuk Scrapper & a Sharpshooter from the sideboard & took out a Stingscourger & something else for it, probably a Mogg war Marshal. I used to have artifact destruction access from game 1 but Maverick has gone down over time, even for the local metagame I play at so I no longer maindeck the one, basically it's a local metagame call, sometimes I have 1 main 1 side Tuktukscrapper, sometimes it's just in the sideboard, and that night I wasn't expecting to go against Jitte + alot of creatures deck, especially game 1. Whole match, won it in 3 games, losing the 1st one.

    Round 2 was against affinity, and it was traditional, fast affinity, they dumped their hand almost immediately, then got out a cranial plating & put it on a flyer, basically they were fast enough as affinity usually is, to be able to race me, game 1 was basically a blow out, while game 2 a little closer, but they were just faster & I drew no answers, even when I did kill a Signal Pest I couldn't block, they just put the plating on an ornithopter & swinged again, either game I never got to the point of being able to be the aggressive deck, but game 2 I did go down with them at like 8 I believe. They won in 2 games fast.

    Round 3 was against BUG midrange, nothing too out of the ordinary, & game's 2 & 3 I even played through Engineered Plague's, though at one point in game 2 an abrupt decay killed a goblin chieftain I sided in because I was expecting the possibility of Plague since they had access to swamp mana, anyhow, the abrupt decay killed the chieftain, in which my other goblins, a war marshall, lackey & goblin token, became 1/1's and promptly died, then the token comes into play, then dies as well of course, lol, luckily however they were low enough that I just finished them off eventually with burn, both game's 2 & 3 were somewhat long for going against a more aggressive version of BUG, my guess is that they might have sided out some of their aggression for more control, cause I only really saw Deathrite Shaman/Tarmogoyf games 2 & 3, and they were not short games. I believe that was won in 2 or 3 games, I don't remember but I think they got game 2.

    Round 4 was against U/W Helm / Rest in peace control if you'd call it that. Game 1 went back and forth alot, they cast 2 entreat the angels over the course of a few turns, and literally at some points it was "I'm dead next turn unless" then "they're dead next turn unless" a few times, before it finally finished with me playing a stingscourger to bounce 1 angel token, then swing to get them lower, they sword a token to gain 4 life so they don't die because they attacked the previous turn thinking I wouldn't have topdecked an answer, in which I did matron to stingscourger so I wouldn't die the following turn to the 2 4/4 flyers, there was some terminus involved in there somewhere, I just remember it being a very back and forth, very close game for a multitude of turns that kept tilting one way and then back again. Game 2 came down to a Moat when I only had them at 16 or so, but I got to a Siege Gang & started using the ability to do 2 damage until he was dead, luckily before that he had used some removal so he was in a topdeck mode and didn't have a top out. I believe that was won in 2 games.

  16. #5156
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    Hot topics

    Hey there, fellow …Chieftains!?

    People who are frequently reading this thread might be wondering: „Huh, why is GoboLord addressing us with “Chieftains” and not “Warchiefs”, as usual?!”
    I’ll tell you why!
    The past few days I have pondered a lot about Goblins. When I do so, I always read the opening post to remind myself of the “basics of playing Vial Goblins”, so to speak. I stumbled across one sentence, namely:
    Goblin Warchief
    Warchief - along with Lackey and Vial – is the reason that such heavy creatures as Goblin Ringleader and Siege-Gang Commander are part of the deck. He is very threatening, because of his cost-reducing ability in combination with providing all goblins with haste. This makes him a favored target for removal.
    Did you know that…
    Some players consider Goblin Chieftain to be equal in power and even cut Warchief to run more Chieftains. I personally think that this is a horrible move. After playing a while without Warchiefs and then returning back to them I can’t express in words how much I missed the cost-reducing ability. I would therefore run Chieftain in addition to Warchief if you (for whatever reason) need (1) additional haste-enablers and (2) pumping (+1/+1).
    However, last weekend I was piloting a list with 0 Warchiefs and 4 Chieftains instead. “What a crime”, I thought. How could I betray my own principles? It’s not too long ago that I would have eagerly discussed with everyone who committed such a crime – I mean: not running Warchiefs? Honestly?
    Another topic came back to me today when ScatmanX pointed out, that last year it was ME who preached not to run Tarfires, but play Lightning Bolts instead. And this weekend it was MY decklist that featured a full playset of Tarfire but not a single Lightning Bolt. How come?
    When I tried to make sense of this, I came to the conclusions that there are some “hot topics” in playing Vial Goblins, that probably never will be resolved. I identified 3 of them:

    (1) Warchief or Chieftain? Or both ?
    (2) Tarfire or Lightning Bolt? Or something else?
    (3) Tin Street Hooligan or Tuktuk Scrapper?

    All those 3 topics have 2 features in common: #1 They frequently come up in discussion of decklists and #2 they will probably never be resolved. So, what did I do in my limited free time? I put up a short writing on this topic to sum up the PROs and CONs for each card named above. This will hopefully put an end to those ever-recurring discussions. Also I hope this will be an interesting read for everyone who hasn’t made up his/her mind on those topics.


    Before I sum up the differences between those cards, lets first look at their similarities!
    * both cards cost 1RR
    * both cards provide HASTE to other Goblins
    * both cards have HASTE themselves
    * both cards have a 2/2 body
    * every Goblin decklist has at least 4 slots dedicated to any combination of Warchiefs and Chieftains
    * both cards have a static ability that is good in multiples

    So what are their differences?
    Goblin Chieftain provides +1/+1. This is especially appealing when you feel like you need the pumping (e.g. when you expect your MU to be more combat-oriented). This ability is also attractive if you want to be better prepared for Engineered Plague. Lastly, this “lord-effect” is valuable when you want to be able to apply pressure to your opponent even with only few Goblins in play.
    Goblin Warchiefs reduces casting costs by 1 colorless mana. This ability is especially attractive when you want your list to be more explosive. Also, when you play additional creatures with higher casting costs (like Krenko, Siege-Gang Commander, Kiki-Jiki) this ability comes in handy, as your other mana-cheaters (Lackey, Vial) might be too slow or not reliable enough to help you cast your larger dudes. A third point (and this is more theoretical) is this: The less basic-lands you run, the more likely it is that you will be short on mana in early- and midgame. Reducing casting costs makes you slightly less vulnerable to manadenial. However, this might not even be of importance if you don’t expect to have too many MU where mana-issues actually matter (e.g. in a combo-heavy metagame or playing with a mono-R decklist). A last point would be to consider the relative benfits of the cost-reduction: while being able to cast Goblin Matron for 1R and Goblin Piledriver for R is always nice, your list might have a number of Goblins that are completely unaffected by Goblin Warchief (Mogg Fanatic, Legion Loyalist, Skirk Prospector, Warren Instigator).
    I’m not going to give a conclusion on which one is better – that is something you have to decide for yourself (maybe considering the points I listed). Especially in the case of Warchief vs. Chieftain it is entirely possible to run 5-8 copies, thereby splitting between them.


    Similarities:
    * both cards cost R
    * both cards can destroy x/1 and x/2 creatures (in a 1-for-1 trade)
    * both cards are instants
    * both cards can target your opponents life points.

    Lightning Bolt has a better reach than Tarfire, since it deals 3 damage, instead of 2. This makes it easier to kill Tarmogoyf with a Lightning Bolt (which is really the ONLY creature that you can reach with a Lightning Bolt, but not with Tarfire): Tarfire can never kills a 'goyf. This is because Tarfire is a “tribal” instant spell. However, if for one reason or the other Tarmogoyf does NOT play a role in your considerations (e.g. the meta-game is not all too Tamogoyf-infested and/or your run Relic of Progenitus in your Sideboard), there are benefits to Tarfire over Lightning Bolt.
    First, Tarfire is a Goblin, which is relevant for Goblin Matron and Ringleader. This is also relevant if it is somehow important that your decklist does contain a solid number of goblin-cards (and a small number of non-Goblin cards). Especially if you are playing vs. lots of discard-effect, Tarfire is slightly better: it improves your Ringleader (by whatever percentage), therefore making your hands slightly bigger, when non-targeted discard-effects (Hymn to Tourach, Liliana of the Veil, Raven’s Crime) hit you. This means that, especially if you want to dedicate a large number of slots (say 4) to “spotremoval with cc1 and reach 2” you are slightly better off with Tarfire (all other things being equal).
    However, there are some unique benefits to Lightning Bolt, of course. Lightning Bolt has a higher reach, which makes it easier to trade in combat situations (think of blocking a Batterskull’ed Germ-Token with a 1/1 creatures). Also, Lightning Bolt does more damage to opponents lifepoints and to Planeswalker’s loyalty-counters. It should be noted that there is comparable cc1 removal available if you only want aim for creatures. However, for reasons of simplicity I will only list them, and not discuss their respective benefits/disadvantages: Swords to Plowshares, Dismember, Tragic Slip, Dead//Gone. Lastly, I want to point out that it is always a reasonable choice to run a singleton Tarfire (as a Matron-target) alongside with any number of Lightning Bolts.


    Here, again, I want to first point out their similarities before turning to their respective benefits.
    * both of them are “tutorable” with Goblin Matron
    * both cards are “net-able” with Goblin Ringleader
    * both cards can destroy an opponent’s artifact
    * both cards have power=2
    * both cards can be played in mono-R decklists with 4 Cavern of Souls

    Tuktuk Scrapper’s ability triggers if he was put into play via Aether Vial OR if he put into play via Goblin Lackey, OR if he was played from your hand, while Tin-Street Hooligan must be cast from your hand to actually Shatter and artifact.
    Tuktuk Scrapper has a the small benefit of dealing 1 damage to your opponents lifepoints.
    Tin Street Hooligan “net-value” is higher if you run him in MD: in case your opponent doesn’t have artifacts he has a reasonable body-to-mana ratio, while Tuktuk Scrapper is highly “overpriced” for a 2/2 creature. Related to this is the fact that TSH is slightly faster, as he can be cast from T2, while Tuktuk Scrapper is usually not castable before Turn 4. However, this difference should not be stressed too much, since both cards usually are 1-offs, which means that they are unlikely to be among your first 10 cards you draw, anyway.
    If your decklist is splashing Green (for whatever reason), Tin Street Hooligan is the better choice. So, in a list that is Rg anyway, you are more likely to be able to cast TSH. Also, TSH is a slightly better choice if you run more Goblin Chieftains than Goblin Warchiefs, while Tuktuk Scrapper is slightly better if your list has more Goblin Warchiefs than Goblin Chieftains.

    Thanks for reading. Comments are - as always - appreciated.



    //Edit: I just was reminded of the fact that some people get paid for this kind of work
    Last edited by GoboLord; 03-26-2013 at 11:03 AM.
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  17. #5157
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    Re: Hot topics

    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord View Post
    post
    I have to agree with you in everything here. Like someone said, there might not be a perfect list, but rather 'perfect lists', and all the cards listed on your post could be on them. (That Ted video was great. Thanks for that)
    For me, it boils down to your personal preference and your read on the metagame.

    About getting paid, haven't you ever considering writing for a site or something. You have a very good knowledge, obviously, and a tight fun writing. (And of course, people who get you thinking about stuff =p)
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    Re: Hot topics

    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord View Post
    Lightning Bolt has a better reach than Tarfire, since it deals 3 damage, instead of 2. This makes it easier to kill Tarmogoyf with a Lightning Bolt (which is really the ONLY creature that you can reach with a Lightning Bolt, but not with Tarfire): Tarfire can only destroy a Tarmogoyf if there are no other cards in either graveyard (which is virtually NEVER the case).
    Thanks for the excellent analysis as always, GL!

    I just wanted to point out that Tarfire can never actually kill Goyf because of the way the rules stack when it comes to Goyf checking his power/toughness and checking damage. Goyf checks his Power/Toughness first, then checks damage, so by the time Goyf "sees" the 2 damage from Tarfire he's already 2/3 because Tarfire is in the GY (Tribal Instant). It's a convoluted rule, but it's my understanding taht that's how it would work.

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    Re: Hot topics

    @ Marcelo:
    Thanks for the reply!
    Well, as far as I know people who write for websites/Blogs actually need to write on a regular basis and about several topics. I only write whenever I feel the urge to do so (and I dont want to be driven by something else than that). Besides, I'm an expert on Goblins only. I literally have no experience with other decks (well, I do know the one or two things about storm combo...) and I don't consider myself to be a good player or something. I'm a legacy-nerd....no, even worse: a Legacy-Goblin-nerd.


    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    I just wanted to point out that Tarfire can never actually kill Goyf because of the way the rules stack when it comes to Goyf checking his power/toughness and checking damage. Goyf checks his Power/Toughness first, then checks damage, so by the time Goyf "sees" the 2 damage from Tarfire he's already 2/3 because Tarfire is in the GY (Tribal Instant). It's a convoluted rule, but it's my understanding taht that's how it would work.
    Thanks for that - you are right of course. I know this interaction, but somehow while writing this I was thinking of Tarmogoyf as a */* creature (instead of */*+1). Fixed that.
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  20. #5160
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    The reason I personally like Tuktuk Scrapper is that it can kill more than one artifact. If I drop one and kill and Artifact most players leave it well alone. By that point in the game I am dropping things that they think are more of a danger and do not touch it. Thing is with it's effect if you drop a second one, with your first one on the table, the one on the table fires off again. This means for the cost of two cards you can take out three Artifacts. Useful.

    Once this is known (Game 3 if you lost game two) then they are more of a target and sometimes a Scrapper can draw fire from another card you might want to keep alive, just because its effect is remembered.

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