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Thread: [Deck] Goblins

  1. #6401

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    So I wanted to try out Tarfire and Krenko in my Rw list, which necessitated cutting the green splash.

    4 Wasteland
    3 Rishadan Port
    4 Cavern of Souls
    1 Karakas
    3 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Arid Mesa
    2 Plateau
    3 Mountain

    4 Aether Vial
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Gempalm Incinerator
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Warchief
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    3 Mogg War-Marshall
    1 Tarfire
    1 Goblin Piledriver
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Goblin Chieftain
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    1 Siege-Gang Commander

    SB:
    4 Rest in Peace
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Pyrokinesis
    1 Boartusk Liege
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 AEthersworn Canonist
    1 Angel of Despair

    Rd 1 vs Merfolk, 2-0
    This was two relatively easy games, since we are both tribal decks, but they have counterspells and we have creature removal.
    SB out: 3 Thalia, Chieftain, in: 3 Pyrokinesis, Jitte

    Rd 2 vs GW, 1-2
    These games were pretty uninteresting, since both games he won he managed T2 Stoneforge into Jitte, and the game I won I blew him out with Krenko activations.
    SB out: 4 Lackey, 3 Thalia, 1 Chieftain, in: 4 RIP, 3 Pyro, 1 Jitte
    I decided after the match that I had SB'd wrong, since RIP just nerfs his KotR, and Jitte doesn't answer his anymore either due to the legendary rules changes.

    Rd 3 vs GW, 2-0
    Better sideboarding here. Pyrokinesis managed to kill a Thalia, Dryad Arbor and Hierarch on his T2 on game.
    SB out: 3 Thalia, in: 3 Pyro

    Rd 4 vs Goblins, 2-0
    A fairly easy card advantage/attrition matchup. I managed to Lackey, Tarfire his Lackey into SGC, and he was mentally defeated on the spot.
    SB out: Lackey, 3 Thalia, in: 3 Pyrokinesis, Jitte

    Rd 5 ID

    Quarterfinals vs GW, 2-0
    A rematch vs my Rd 2 opponent. With better SB'ing I managed to take this 2-0, along with making sure that Jitte never hit.
    SB out: 3 Thalia, in: 3 Pyro

    Semis vs Death and Taxes 1-2
    Every game he got down Stoneforge->Jitte although I managed to blow him out with a Krenko activation in game 2. In the other two games I wasn't able to answer it.
    SB out: 3 Thalia, in: 3 Pyro

    Thoughts on the day:
    1. Krenko wass very good
    2. Goblin Chieftain was rubbish and I never wanted him
    3. Skirk Prospector was BADLY missed. The only games I lost were to Jittes on the day, and Prospector is my main way of stopping equipment from hitting us.
    4. I decided to skip running Wear/Tear on a lark (and since I'm not running TSH, that means NO artifact removal). This was a really bad idea, considering all my losses were to Jitte.
    5. Combined with (4), The SB 1-ofs were all a bit off in my list, with the Boartusk Liege the only one I really want there (vs Engineered Plague). The other slots need to go to artifact removal.

    Going forward I think I will make the following changes:
    + 1 Skirk Prospector
    - 1 Goblin Chieftain
    SB
    + 1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    + 2 Wear//Tear
    - 1 Umezawa's Jitte
    - 1 AEthersworn Canonist
    - 1 Angel of Despair

    That will give me this list:

    4 Wasteland
    3 Rishadan Port
    4 Cavern of Souls
    1 Karakas
    3 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Arid Mesa
    2 Plateau
    3 Mountain

    4 Aether Vial
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Gempalm Incinerator
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Warchief
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    3 Mogg War-Marshall
    1 Skirk Prospector
    1 Tarfire
    1 Goblin Piledriver
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    1 Siege-Gang Commander

    SB:
    4 Rest in Peace
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Pyrokinesis
    2 Wear // Tear
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    1 Boartusk Liege

    If you made it this far, thanks for reading.
    Last edited by magicmerl; 10-26-2013 at 04:55 AM.

  2. #6402
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    Thinking about picking up gobs again after a long hiatus. Seems like the white splash is popular; is that the consensus, or is good old' mono-R still realistically viable?
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  3. #6403
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    Rd 2 vs GW, 1-2
    These games were pretty uninteresting, since both games he won he managed T2 Stoneforge into Jitte, and the game I won I blew him out with Krenko activations.
    SB out: 4 Lackey, 3 Thalia, 1 Chieftain, in: 4 RIP, 3 Pyro, 1 Jitte
    I decided after the match that I had SB'd wrong, since RIP just nerfs his KotR, and Jitte doesn't answer his anymore either due to the legendary rules changes.

    Rd 3 vs GW, 2-0
    Better sideboarding here. Pyrokinesis managed to kill a Thalia, Dryad Arbor and Hierarch on his T2 on game.
    SB out: 3 Thalia, in: 3 Pyro

    Quarterfinals vs GW, 2-0
    A rematch vs my Rd 2 opponent. With better SB'ing I managed to take this 2-0, along with making sure that Jitte never hit.
    SB out: 3 Thalia, in: 3 Pyro

    Semis vs Death and Taxes 1-2
    Every game he got down Stoneforge->Jitte although I managed to blow him out with a Krenko activation in game 2. In the other two games I wasn't able to answer it.
    SB out: 3 Thalia, in: 3 Pyro

    Thoughts on the day:
    3. Skirk Prospector was BADLY missed. The only games I lost were to Jittes on the day, and Prospector is my main way of stopping equipment from hitting us.
    4. I decided to skip running Wear/Tear on a lark (and since I'm not running TSH, that means NO artifact removal). This was a really bad idea, considering all my losses were to Jitte.

    That will give me this list:

    4 Wasteland
    3 Rishadan Port
    4 Cavern of Souls
    1 Karakas
    3 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Arid Mesa
    2 Plateau
    3 Mountain

    4 Aether Vial
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Gempalm Incinerator
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Warchief
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    3 Mogg War-Marshall
    1 Skirk Prospector
    1 Tarfire
    1 Goblin Piledriver
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    1 Siege-Gang Commander

    SB:
    4 Rest in Peace
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Pyrokinesis
    2 Wear // Tear
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    1 Boartusk Liege

    If you made it this far, thanks for reading.
    I like that you realized your sideboarding mistake against Maverick (GW). All you really need against them is Pyro, although there are some builds that run more heavily on the SFM side. I've also been blown out by Dueling Grounds while battling Maverick, so it might behoove you to side in a Wear // Tear or two for that matchup.

    Against Death and Taxes you certainly want access to Artifact destruction. That deck can't put nearly the same clock on if it can't equip its otherwise vanilla creatures. So again, Wear // Tear would be a great addition to your SB. I think you've realized that.

    I like your revised list. I think you can do it with 22 lands instead of 23. I think you want a 4th Port. I think you should cut the SGC. Also, you said you didn't like Chieftain, but I would give him another shot if I were you. I've been playing an almost identical list with 3 Warchief, 2 Chieftain and it's been great. Having 5 haste lords is pretty great, and the possibility of +2/+2 pump is pretty sweet. It lets you have games like a really explosive Merfolk deck where you're suddenly swinging with 5 hasty 3/3's.
    Prospector is a good addition to the list, and heaven forbid you assemble Krenko + Prospector + Karakas + Warchief/Chieftain you get to make a pretty silly-looking board. Prospector's ability to turn off Jitte and Batterskull is obviously a great way to keep the game from getting out of hand for you.

    RiP is an awesome SB card, but I prefer to run it on a 2/2 split with Relic just because Relic can Cycle and can be played off of red or colorless mana. So by running Relic you hedge against 1) being color-screwed and 2) being flooded with Graveyard hate.

  4. #6404
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning View Post
    Thinking about picking up gobs again after a long hiatus. Seems like the white splash is popular; is that the consensus, or is good old' mono-R still realistically viable?
    Rw is definitely the way to go. It gives you access to Thalia and Ethersworn Cannonist against combo, RiP against graveyard-dependent decks, and Wear // Tear against Equipment. Artifacts, and Enchantments. W really fills out the holes where Goblins is traditionally exposed.

  5. #6405

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Comments in bold
    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    What I took away from last night:
    Krenko is boss. I really want to run a second since he's just sooooo good against discard and removal. He's better than ringleader against discard because he doesn't put cards in your hand. He's too big to Punishing Fire or Abrupt Decay. If you've already drawn out a bolt or two from your opponent then he's going to survive. He was an absolute powerhouse last night.
    Yeah, he did work for me by just going 'over the top' of green decks.

    Blood Moon is bad. I ran 2 in the sideboard to fuck with greedy manabases. Then, when I had those matches, I wanted nothing to do with Blood Moon and never sided it in. Perhaps Pithing Needle will replace it.
    I think they are both bad. Honestly, I find SB space so scarce that I'm already running Thalia MD simply to give myself 18 slots. Once you have
    7 vs storm
    4 vs GY
    3 vs creatures
    3 vs artifacts
    That doesn't leave a lot of room for 'utility' cards.


    I'm still asking Santa for a Shatter-on-a-Stick Goblin for Christmas. There are more and more Artifacts being played that provide marginal utility or CA (Strix, Shardless, Pod) and it would be great to have a Maindeckable artifact hating goblin to deal with them. TSH and Tuktuk are just too lousy to MD. TSH isn't worth the splash when you're already MDing Thalia. And Tuktuk is too expensive.
    Yeah, a goblin-shifted Manic Vandal would be O for awesome.

    Tarfire is great.
    This I am not so sure about. For me it was 'ok', and I faced nothing but creature decks (which you'd expect it to shine). I don't think that this is nearly as solid a tutor target as Stingscourger or Sharpshooter. I think it's more in the fringe slots with Prospector and a TSH.

    Running 5 haste lords is awesome. Hastey Goblins are happy Goblins.
    Really? I didn't like chieftain much, never tutored for it, and every time I drew it I wished it was a warchief.

    Having access to Wear // Tear is pretty great. There are a whole slew of MUs that card is great against. The fact that it can hit Top or Deed or Plague or E Bridge or Batterskull or Jitte or Energy Field is all huge. Great card.
    Agreed. Is it better to run 3 in the SB, or 2 and a tutorable goblin (to give you more redundant copies of artifact removal via matron).

    I like that you realized your sideboarding mistake against Maverick (GW). All you really need against them is Pyro, although there are some builds that run more heavily on the SFM side. I've also been blown out by Dueling Grounds while battling Maverick, so it might behoove you to side in a Wear // Tear or two for that matchup.
    Thanks. I'm a bit leery of bringing in enchantment removal for Dueling grounds, simply because I'm quite happy to combo them out with Krenko/Prospector/Sharpshooter, and if they grind the game to a slow then there's more time for us to tutor the pieces up.

    Against Death and Taxes you certainly want access to Artifact destruction. That deck can't put nearly the same clock on if it can't equip its otherwise vanilla creatures. So again, Wear // Tear would be a great addition to your SB. I think you've realized that.
    Yep.

    I like your revised list. I think you can do it with 22 lands instead of 23.
    Well, I never found that I was flooded out. I'd rather be able to mulligan aggressively I think.

    I think you want a 4th Port.
    Maybe. I think I want Karakas more though, and I'm already pushing it in terms of coloured mana sources of both red and white (for Rest in Peace and Warchief). So while I do want the 4th port, I also want those other things. That's one of the costs of a two colour manabase.

    I think you should cut the SGC.
    Hrmm, he's just so nuts though. There's nothing I'd rather lackey into play, and he's another part of the 'winning without attacking' thing that I am fine with.

    Also, you said you didn't like Chieftain, but I would give him another shot if I were you. I've been playing an almost identical list with 3 Warchief, 2 Chieftain and it's been great. Having 5 haste lords is pretty great, and the possibility of +2/+2 pump is pretty sweet. It lets you have games like a really explosive Merfolk deck where you're suddenly swinging with 5 hasty 3/3's.
    Noted on Chieftain. I'll keep him in mind as a fringe card, either as the 60th card in the deck or first cab off the ranks sitting with the rejects.

    Prospector is a good addition to the list, and heaven forbid you assemble Krenko + Prospector + Karakas + Warchief/Chieftain you get to make a pretty silly-looking board. Prospector's ability to turn off Jitte and Batterskull is obviously a great way to keep the game from getting out of hand for you.
    Yeah. The great thing is that he's one of the few cards you can actually tutor for and play in a reasonable timeframe against an early Jitte that followed a T2 Stoneforge.

    RiP is an awesome SB card, but I prefer to run it on a 2/2 split with Relic just because Relic can Cycle and can be played off of red or colorless mana. So by running Relic you hedge against 1) being color-screwed and 2) being flooded with Graveyard hate.
    This is a good idea. I like your reasoning here.

  6. #6406

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    Rw is definitely the way to go. It gives you access to Thalia and Ethersworn Cannonist against combo, RiP against graveyard-dependent decks, and Wear // Tear against Equipment. Artifacts, and Enchantments. W really fills out the holes where Goblins is traditionally exposed.
    I just picked up my last Plateau awhile ago and I think I'm finally on board with the Rw build. RiP is so good against basically everything.

    I haven't tested Wear//Tear but why is that played over Disenchant? Because of the 1 mana Shatter?
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  7. #6407

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Amon Amarth View Post
    I just picked up my last Plateau awhile ago and I think I'm finally on board with the Rw build. RiP is so good against basically everything.

    I haven't tested Wear//Tear but why is that played over Disenchant? Because of the 1 mana Shatter?
    1. It's cheaper than Disenchant when we want to hit an enchantment
    2. It's easier to cast when we want to Shatter something
    3. It can be fused to hit both targets at the same time vs a deck like CounterTop

    It's basically strictly better than Disenchant for us.
    Last edited by magicmerl; 10-27-2013 at 04:15 AM.

  8. #6408
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Sigh. Max Tietze reached the invitational top8 piloting UWR delver in the legacy part of the event. He betrayed goblins.
    I don't know if hoping for him to win due to his goblins past or if wishing bad luck to his ugly deck.

  9. #6409

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    I really hope you're joking..even if it's a bad one and not funny.. but wishing someone bad luck because "mimimi he doesn't play my deck what a jerk!" really?
    Sarcasm doesn't work all that well written without indications like ""..

  10. #6410
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoCop 90 View Post
    Sigh. Max Tietze reached the invitational top8 piloting UWR delver in the legacy part of the event. He betrayed goblins.
    I don't know if hoping for him to win due to his goblins past or if wishing bad luck to his ugly deck.
    Nope, he didn't betray anyone. He just swapped his G splash for a solid U. And thats how the decks are different.

    //EDIT:
    ""
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  11. #6411
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord View Post

    //EDIT:
    ""
    Lol, for Holly?

  12. #6412
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    Can the outrage and incredulity. There are folks starving in Africa. And they're not playing Goblins either.

  13. #6413
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Men, I am not so serious :) I mean, i'm a bit disappointed because i always saw tietze playing goblins in legacy, but now my life won't change.

    Edit: although I also feel that I'm betraying myself when i don't play goblins in legacy. I have burn and elves, while burn is just a kiddy deck sometimes i have the impulse to tear the elf deck apart for the sake of goblins :)

  14. #6414
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    Can the outrage and incredulity. There are folks starving in Africa. And they're not playing Goblins either.
    I thought it was China that had the starving kids? They might be playing Goblins, though, so it's not all bad
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  15. #6415
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Okay, can we return to goblin-related discussions now?

    Some suggestions for topics to discuss would be:

    (1) Why does nobody play Perish in the SB? I mean, look at the freaking DtBs. DRS.dec is everywhere. (Where I play, even Threshold decks have cut Tarmogoyfs in favor of that Shaman).

    (2) This is a personal matter: I'm looking for a 1- or 2-off goblin with manacosts up to 4 and a very good to "oops, I win" kind of impact on the game. I'm talking about a Rb Winstigator list here. Possible candidates would be:

    Wort, Boggart Auntie
    Krenko Mob Boss
    Lightning Crafter
    Goblin Pyromancer
    Earwig Squad

    The metagame I'm playing in would be featuring some BGx, Elves and Delver Threshold at least. Suggestions are welcome.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

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  16. #6416
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    I think krenko is always the safest bet. Goblin pyromancer could be an alternative, but it requires a decent board position to be effective , while krenko can win almost on its own. If you like the pyromancer anyway Legion Loyalist is good with him. Lightning crafter is not an oops i win card but is good to have repeatable bolts.

    Looking at other cards there are very few options:

    Caterwauling Boggart could have impact in some games.
    Boggart Mob is probably just win more.
    Fodder Launch as a one of to deal the last damages and/or get rid of big creatures?
    Stenchskipper may be strong but is not a goblin.
    Shared Animosity same as stenchskipper.

    I didn't find anything else, and i realize all the cards I listed are somewhat fringe. Maybe you can try a krenko/lightning crafter split.

  17. #6417
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Krenko never did me dirty and basically everyone hates seeing him across the table. I think SGC is a thing of the past; Wort seems like a game breaker vs Jund/Burn-based decks, but she's also bolt-able and her ability is slow/not as explosive as Krenko. Crafter and Boartusk liege both look sweet, decay-proof dudes, esp. Crafter who's (as Scatman proved) bonkers with a Ringleader under him.

    No love for Kiki-Jiki? Multiple Pile Drivers/Lords/Ringleaders seems sweet to me.

    Also, I don't know if y'all have seen this, but there's a reprint of Goblin Sharpshooter in commander with amusing new artwork. Even if they never give us a Manic Vandal Goblin (also on my wishlist this year, as Shattergang Bros. isn't fast enough) they'll always give us good art/flavor.
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    There is no need to hold on 4cc in winstigator list imho. So i would play (i do actually) the most fearsome duo - SGC and Kiki.

  19. #6419
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord View Post
    Okay, can we return to goblin-related discussions now?

    Some suggestions for topics to discuss would be:

    (1) Why does nobody play Perish in the SB? I mean, look at the freaking DtBs. DRS.dec is everywhere. (Where I play, even Threshold decks have cut Tarmogoyfs in favor of that Shaman).

    (2) This is a personal matter: I'm looking for a 1- or 2-off goblin with manacosts up to 4 and a very good to "oops, I win" kind of impact on the game. I'm talking about a Rb Winstigator list here. Possible candidates would be:

    Wort, Boggart Auntie
    Krenko Mob Boss
    Lightning Crafter
    Goblin Pyromancer
    Earwig Squad

    The metagame I'm playing in would be featuring some BGx, Elves and Delver Threshold at least. Suggestions are welcome.
    1) I don't run Perish for several reasons. It is narrow, slow, the wrong color, and there are other cards that do similar things but are better colors. If you want to beat Elves Perish is too slow. They can go off t2 or t3 fairly easily. Pyrokinesis is better. If you want to kill Goyf or Goose RiP is better. That brings up a second layer of reason to not run Perish: it's better to have access to W for sb cards than B. Thalia, RiP and Pyrokinesis are better, more flexible, and generally cast a greater sphere of influence than Cabal Therapy, Leyline of the Void and Perish.

    2) there isn't really an Oops I Win goblin, probably because the design of goblins has always been based on the swarm. Kiki - Lightning Crafter is pretty much the only game-ender available to us. Pyromancer seems good too, but I don't like that it doesn't really work off Lackey.

    Meta suggestions: RiP is great against GBx and Delver, and I think Pyro is better against Elves.

  20. #6420
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Thank you for your reply!
    Here is the problem that I have with your view:

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    If you want to beat Elves [...] Pyrokinesis is better. If you want to kill Goyf or Goose RiP is better.
    First, I can't just cut 3 Perish and add 6-8 slots for Pyrokinesis and RIP. IMO Perish works well enough against both decks (BGx and Elves), whereas your suggestion is to run more card in general. So my problem is that my SB slots are a little restricted here.

    Second, I disagree with RIP being BETTER than Perish in dealing with Goyf & Mongoose. I do know that RIP is certainly a very good card to make them less troublesome, but then again RIP is more vulnerable than Perish. RIP's etb-trigger can be Stifled, meaning that RIP runs the risk of doing nothing to actually kil the creatures. Plus, (talking about RUG and RUGb Threshhold) Spell Snare is a thing that can catch RIP, whereas counters that can deal with Perish (FoW and Daze) are more likely to be sitting in SB after G1. Apart from that Perish has the added benefits that it can immedeatly wipe the board from eventual bodies (DRS is still 1/2, Scavenging Ooze might be grown meanwhile etc.) which means that (ideally) you dont give your opponent a chance to find solutions for his boardstate. This is different with RIP which your oppnent can destroy with Abrupt Decay and refill his graveyard afterwards.

    Third, while I agree with you that P'Kinesis is strictly better than Perish in the Elves MU I disagree with your statement that it is too slow. First, I'm talking about an WINSTIGATOR list here, which has more means of casting Perish on T2 than CLASSIC lists (due to Chrome Moxen). Second, I don't think that Elves easily go off T2 or T3 (I recognize that this is a possibilty, but not a likely one). Playing Earwig Squad in SB (like I do) means that I assume to have him on the board before Storm Combo decks can go off. WHen I think that 3 mana is fast enough for Storm Combo I also think it's fast enough for Elves. After all, Perish is not the only spell to bring in vs ELves, as I have Chalice of the Void too, to slow them down (if not blow them out completely).
    Besides, playing P'Kinesis in a Winstigator lists feels awkward and Perish looks like a good rplacement for that purpose. Perish in CLASSIC Goblin lists is a differnt story though and I admit that your arguments hold for CLASSIC lists - not for WINSTIGATOR lists though.

    That being said, I find that Perish is a very good card to play right now and might even be another reason to run WINSTIGATOR lists over CLASSIC lists right now (at the very least this is true for my local metagame).

    //EDIT:
    I want to add that I agree with your that W is probably the better splashcolor in general. However, I personally have been quite disappointed with Thalia recently and my meta doesn't call for graveyard hate (RIP). So two-thirds of the reason to splash W are not valid for me (the 3rd would be Wear//Tear, which I find awsome). That's probably another reason why I'm advocating B splash here.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

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