So I wanted to try out Tarfire and Krenko in my Rw list, which necessitated cutting the green splash.
4 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Arid Mesa
2 Plateau
3 Mountain
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Mogg War-Marshall
1 Tarfire
1 Goblin Piledriver
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Chieftain
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-Gang Commander
SB:
4 Rest in Peace
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Pyrokinesis
1 Boartusk Liege
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 AEthersworn Canonist
1 Angel of Despair
Rd 1 vs Merfolk, 2-0
This was two relatively easy games, since we are both tribal decks, but they have counterspells and we have creature removal.
SB out: 3 Thalia, Chieftain, in: 3 Pyrokinesis, Jitte
Rd 2 vs GW, 1-2
These games were pretty uninteresting, since both games he won he managed T2 Stoneforge into Jitte, and the game I won I blew him out with Krenko activations.
SB out: 4 Lackey, 3 Thalia, 1 Chieftain, in: 4 RIP, 3 Pyro, 1 Jitte
I decided after the match that I had SB'd wrong, since RIP just nerfs his KotR, and Jitte doesn't answer his anymore either due to the legendary rules changes.
Rd 3 vs GW, 2-0
Better sideboarding here. Pyrokinesis managed to kill a Thalia, Dryad Arbor and Hierarch on his T2 on game.
SB out: 3 Thalia, in: 3 Pyro
Rd 4 vs Goblins, 2-0
A fairly easy card advantage/attrition matchup. I managed to Lackey, Tarfire his Lackey into SGC, and he was mentally defeated on the spot.
SB out: Lackey, 3 Thalia, in: 3 Pyrokinesis, Jitte
Rd 5 ID
Quarterfinals vs GW, 2-0
A rematch vs my Rd 2 opponent. With better SB'ing I managed to take this 2-0, along with making sure that Jitte never hit.
SB out: 3 Thalia, in: 3 Pyro
Semis vs Death and Taxes 1-2
Every game he got down Stoneforge->Jitte although I managed to blow him out with a Krenko activation in game 2. In the other two games I wasn't able to answer it.
SB out: 3 Thalia, in: 3 Pyro
Thoughts on the day:
1. Krenko wass very good
2. Goblin Chieftain was rubbish and I never wanted him
3. Skirk Prospector was BADLY missed. The only games I lost were to Jittes on the day, and Prospector is my main way of stopping equipment from hitting us.
4. I decided to skip running Wear/Tear on a lark (and since I'm not running TSH, that means NO artifact removal). This was a really bad idea, considering all my losses were to Jitte.
5. Combined with (4), The SB 1-ofs were all a bit off in my list, with the Boartusk Liege the only one I really want there (vs Engineered Plague). The other slots need to go to artifact removal.
Going forward I think I will make the following changes:
+ 1 Skirk Prospector
- 1 Goblin Chieftain
SB
+ 1 Tuktuk Scrapper
+ 2 Wear//Tear
- 1 Umezawa's Jitte
- 1 AEthersworn Canonist
- 1 Angel of Despair
That will give me this list:
4 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Arid Mesa
2 Plateau
3 Mountain
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Mogg War-Marshall
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Tarfire
1 Goblin Piledriver
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-Gang Commander
SB:
4 Rest in Peace
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Wear // Tear
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Boartusk Liege
If you made it this far, thanks for reading.
Last edited by magicmerl; 10-26-2013 at 04:55 AM.
Thinking about picking up gobs again after a long hiatus. Seems like the white splash is popular; is that the consensus, or is good old' mono-R still realistically viable?
"Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."
I write articles about Legacy Death and Taxes. Check them out.
I like that you realized your sideboarding mistake against Maverick (GW). All you really need against them is Pyro, although there are some builds that run more heavily on the SFM side. I've also been blown out by Dueling Grounds while battling Maverick, so it might behoove you to side in a Wear // Tear or two for that matchup.
Against Death and Taxes you certainly want access to Artifact destruction. That deck can't put nearly the same clock on if it can't equip its otherwise vanilla creatures. So again, Wear // Tear would be a great addition to your SB. I think you've realized that.
I like your revised list. I think you can do it with 22 lands instead of 23. I think you want a 4th Port. I think you should cut the SGC. Also, you said you didn't like Chieftain, but I would give him another shot if I were you. I've been playing an almost identical list with 3 Warchief, 2 Chieftain and it's been great. Having 5 haste lords is pretty great, and the possibility of +2/+2 pump is pretty sweet. It lets you have games like a really explosive Merfolk deck where you're suddenly swinging with 5 hasty 3/3's.
Prospector is a good addition to the list, and heaven forbid you assemble Krenko + Prospector + Karakas + Warchief/Chieftain you get to make a pretty silly-looking board. Prospector's ability to turn off Jitte and Batterskull is obviously a great way to keep the game from getting out of hand for you.
RiP is an awesome SB card, but I prefer to run it on a 2/2 split with Relic just because Relic can Cycle and can be played off of red or colorless mana. So by running Relic you hedge against 1) being color-screwed and 2) being flooded with Graveyard hate.
Rw is definitely the way to go. It gives you access to Thalia and Ethersworn Cannonist against combo, RiP against graveyard-dependent decks, and Wear // Tear against Equipment. Artifacts, and Enchantments. W really fills out the holes where Goblins is traditionally exposed.
"We are goblinkind, heirs to the mountain empires of chieftains past. Rest is death to us, and arson is our call to war."
Last edited by magicmerl; 10-27-2013 at 04:15 AM.
Sigh. Max Tietze reached the invitational top8 piloting UWR delver in the legacy part of the event. He betrayed goblins.
I don't know if hoping for him to win due to his goblins past or if wishing bad luck to his ugly deck.
I really hope you're joking..even if it's a bad one and not funny.. but wishing someone bad luck because "mimimi he doesn't play my deck what a jerk!" really?
Sarcasm doesn't work all that well written without indications like ""..
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
Can the outrage and incredulity. There are folks starving in Africa. And they're not playing Goblins either.
Men, I am not so serious :) I mean, i'm a bit disappointed because i always saw tietze playing goblins in legacy, but now my life won't change.
Edit: although I also feel that I'm betraying myself when i don't play goblins in legacy. I have burn and elves, while burn is just a kiddy deck sometimes i have the impulse to tear the elf deck apart for the sake of goblins :)
"Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."
I write articles about Legacy Death and Taxes. Check them out.
Okay, can we return to goblin-related discussions now?
Some suggestions for topics to discuss would be:
(1) Why does nobody play Perish in the SB? I mean, look at the freaking DtBs. DRS.dec is everywhere. (Where I play, even Threshold decks have cut Tarmogoyfs in favor of that Shaman).
(2) This is a personal matter: I'm looking for a 1- or 2-off goblin with manacosts up to 4 and a very good to "oops, I win" kind of impact on the game. I'm talking about a Rb Winstigator list here. Possible candidates would be:
Wort, Boggart Auntie
Krenko Mob Boss
Lightning Crafter
Goblin Pyromancer
Earwig Squad
The metagame I'm playing in would be featuring some BGx, Elves and Delver Threshold at least. Suggestions are welcome.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
I think krenko is always the safest bet. Goblin pyromancer could be an alternative, but it requires a decent board position to be effective , while krenko can win almost on its own. If you like the pyromancer anyway Legion Loyalist is good with him. Lightning crafter is not an oops i win card but is good to have repeatable bolts.
Looking at other cards there are very few options:
Caterwauling Boggart could have impact in some games.
Boggart Mob is probably just win more.
Fodder Launch as a one of to deal the last damages and/or get rid of big creatures?
Stenchskipper may be strong but is not a goblin.
Shared Animosity same as stenchskipper.
I didn't find anything else, and i realize all the cards I listed are somewhat fringe. Maybe you can try a krenko/lightning crafter split.
Krenko never did me dirty and basically everyone hates seeing him across the table. I think SGC is a thing of the past; Wort seems like a game breaker vs Jund/Burn-based decks, but she's also bolt-able and her ability is slow/not as explosive as Krenko. Crafter and Boartusk liege both look sweet, decay-proof dudes, esp. Crafter who's (as Scatman proved) bonkers with a Ringleader under him.
No love for Kiki-Jiki? Multiple Pile Drivers/Lords/Ringleaders seems sweet to me.
Also, I don't know if y'all have seen this, but there's a reprint of Goblin Sharpshooter in commander with amusing new artwork. Even if they never give us a Manic Vandal Goblin (also on my wishlist this year, as Shattergang Bros. isn't fast enough) they'll always give us good art/flavor.
"Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."
I write articles about Legacy Death and Taxes. Check them out.
There is no need to hold on 4cc in winstigator list imho. So i would play (i do actually) the most fearsome duo - SGC and Kiki.
1) I don't run Perish for several reasons. It is narrow, slow, the wrong color, and there are other cards that do similar things but are better colors. If you want to beat Elves Perish is too slow. They can go off t2 or t3 fairly easily. Pyrokinesis is better. If you want to kill Goyf or Goose RiP is better. That brings up a second layer of reason to not run Perish: it's better to have access to W for sb cards than B. Thalia, RiP and Pyrokinesis are better, more flexible, and generally cast a greater sphere of influence than Cabal Therapy, Leyline of the Void and Perish.
2) there isn't really an Oops I Win goblin, probably because the design of goblins has always been based on the swarm. Kiki - Lightning Crafter is pretty much the only game-ender available to us. Pyromancer seems good too, but I don't like that it doesn't really work off Lackey.
Meta suggestions: RiP is great against GBx and Delver, and I think Pyro is better against Elves.
Thank you for your reply!
Here is the problem that I have with your view:
First, I can't just cut 3 Perish and add 6-8 slots for Pyrokinesis and RIP. IMO Perish works well enough against both decks (BGx and Elves), whereas your suggestion is to run more card in general. So my problem is that my SB slots are a little restricted here.
Second, I disagree with RIP being BETTER than Perish in dealing with Goyf & Mongoose. I do know that RIP is certainly a very good card to make them less troublesome, but then again RIP is more vulnerable than Perish. RIP's etb-trigger can be Stifled, meaning that RIP runs the risk of doing nothing to actually kil the creatures. Plus, (talking about RUG and RUGb Threshhold) Spell Snare is a thing that can catch RIP, whereas counters that can deal with Perish (FoW and Daze) are more likely to be sitting in SB after G1. Apart from that Perish has the added benefits that it can immedeatly wipe the board from eventual bodies (DRS is still 1/2, Scavenging Ooze might be grown meanwhile etc.) which means that (ideally) you dont give your opponent a chance to find solutions for his boardstate. This is different with RIP which your oppnent can destroy with Abrupt Decay and refill his graveyard afterwards.
Third, while I agree with you that P'Kinesis is strictly better than Perish in the Elves MU I disagree with your statement that it is too slow. First, I'm talking about an WINSTIGATOR list here, which has more means of casting Perish on T2 than CLASSIC lists (due to Chrome Moxen). Second, I don't think that Elves easily go off T2 or T3 (I recognize that this is a possibilty, but not a likely one). Playing Earwig Squad in SB (like I do) means that I assume to have him on the board before Storm Combo decks can go off. WHen I think that 3 mana is fast enough for Storm Combo I also think it's fast enough for Elves. After all, Perish is not the only spell to bring in vs ELves, as I have Chalice of the Void too, to slow them down (if not blow them out completely).
Besides, playing P'Kinesis in a Winstigator lists feels awkward and Perish looks like a good rplacement for that purpose. Perish in CLASSIC Goblin lists is a differnt story though and I admit that your arguments hold for CLASSIC lists - not for WINSTIGATOR lists though.
That being said, I find that Perish is a very good card to play right now and might even be another reason to run WINSTIGATOR lists over CLASSIC lists right now (at the very least this is true for my local metagame).
//EDIT:
I want to add that I agree with your that W is probably the better splashcolor in general. However, I personally have been quite disappointed with Thalia recently and my meta doesn't call for graveyard hate (RIP). So two-thirds of the reason to splash W are not valid for me (the 3rd would be Wear//Tear, which I find awsome). That's probably another reason why I'm advocating B splash here.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
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