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Thread: [Deck] Goblins

  1. #6601
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    Bardu's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    I took this deck to GP Columbus back in '07 when it was a DTB. I have been largely away from the game since then.

    I've been playtesting Jim Davis' list from SCG Philadelphia this year (almost identical to Joey Andrew's from Cleveland). The only new developments he includes are Cavern of Souls and MWM, so it is very comfortable for me, being so similar to the deck I had piloted for so long. I have tested against Canadian Thresh, UWR Delver, Show and Tell, ANT, Elves, and D&T as well as other random jank (I have not tested against Shardless BUG or Jund). I was very happy with the results.

    My opinions on a few of the newer adoptions of the deck, feel free to flame. :)
    -Warren Instigator: The reason Lackey is good is because it costs R.
    -Goblin Chieftan: Glorious Anthem is not the strongest effect. I can see including him for redundancy, but even so he is a three drop.
    -Krenko: This one I don't understand at all. He costs four, needs to tap, needs board position, and dies to Lightning Bolt.
    -Tarfire: Kills Delver, hatebears, elves, etc. I can understand it as a tutor target, but Shock was never the best card.

    Also, where is the love for SGC? Lackey->SGC is one of the reasons to play this deck!

    How do you feel about the "classic" list?

  2. #6602
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    GoboLord's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Sockosensei View Post
    I've tried to keep the number of one-drops, two-drops, and total goblins (34) as high as possible.
    I'm open to replacing two lands with Chrome Mox for speed. Will test it both ways.


    Questions
    • Warren Weirding is proving to be very effective. Yet at the same time, having those as the only black cards in the main means I'll frequently need to reveal the black splash in game 1 just to access this card. --> Is it worth it?
    • Ringleader & Shuffle effects: On the one hand, fetching lands out before playing Ringleaders should give an improvement, however marginal. On the other hand, once you've stacked the bottom of the deck with non-goblins after Ringleading, the last thing you want to do is shuffle those back in! Has this been analyzed and number-crunched, and if so, could you point me to it? How many shuffle effects are optimal? Should I replace some fetches with a 4th Badlands and perhaps an Auntie's Hovel?
    • How many slots should I devote to the 'finisher' goblins, Krenko, SGC (or Lightning Crafter/Kiki-Jiki) that I hope to cheat into play with my 8 Lackey effects?


    I'm looking forward to your feedback.

    (1) You should definitely run Chrome Moxen. At least 2 in MD and I advice 1 more in the SB. That has proven good for ScatmanX and for me (you bring in the #3 Mox mostly in combo MUs and vs. Elves)
    (2) Revealing B splash G1. I can't tell for sure if you want Warren Weiridng, but revealing the B splash is definitely not an issue.
    (3) Ringleader-reshuffle vs. fetchland-thinning the deck out: It has been analyzed and it makes no difference that we could observe in a regular tournament.
    (4) In my oppinion 1 or maximum 2 slots should be enoug for the 'finisher' goblins. I can imagine even devoting 0 slots here, since Goblin Ringleader is quite the matchwinner too. Especially in lists that run 4 Piledrivers and 4 Goblin CHieftain, I think you got a sufficient number of finishers.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  3. #6603
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Hello, my first tournament report here, although I have been reading this thread for years :-)

    Today I went 3-1 on small tourney in Prague. I played budget list of RW goblins (no wastes, no ports). Please excuse the grammar mistakes as english isn't my native language.

    Decklist:

    Spells & Artifacts

    3x Tarfire
    4x Vial

    Creatures

    1x Sharpshooter
    1x Stingscourger
    1x Tuktuk Scrapper
    3x Gempalm
    2x Krenko
    3x Warchief
    3x Piledriver
    4x Ringleader
    4x Matron
    2x Chieftain
    2x MWM
    4x Lackey

    Lands

    1x Plateau
    4x Cavern
    4x Bloodstained Mire
    14x Mountain

    SB:

    1x Rest In Peace
    3x Relic of Progenitus (wanted to play 4x RiP, but somehow couldn't get my hands on a playset the evening before the tourney started... so I decided to improvise with this - imo good - alternative)
    3x Pyrostatic Pillar
    3x Pyrokinesis
    4x Wear//Tear
    1x Stingscourger


    Now the games...

    Round 1 - RGB with punishing fire (don't know the exact name of the deck... it included such cards as goyfs, confidants, bloodbraid elf, maelstrom pulse, thoughtseize, ooze, liliana...) - 2:0

    G1: I am on play, keep very nice hand with vial, 3 lands, chieftain, warchief, ringleader. He mulls to 6. I open with mountain, vial and let him play. He starts with thoughtseize for my ringleader and passes the turn. I draw piledriver, +1 vial, play piledriver and let him play. He then puts second land and plays two! more thoughtseizes, getting me off my chieftain and warchief. I thought this didn't go well, then I realised he has almost no board position and I don't care about some discards. I got lucky with topdecks then, topdecked ringleader into 4 goblins (some haste lord, krenko, removal). He starts playing oozes and goyfs who all eat my removals, until few turns later I win the game with krenko tokens.

    G2: He starts, keeping his 7, neither do I. He plays t1 land and thougthseize (again? seriusly?), discarding my matron. I topdeck my only RiP in first draw and play it the turn after. He never got into the game after this (couldn't find abrupt decay for RiP), so I just proceeded to kill all his useless oozes and goyfs, and once again, finished with Krenko few turns later. This was a supreme start for me, I kissed Krenko's face, went for a cigarette just 5 minutes before round 2 started. Perfect timing.

    1 - 0

    Round 2 - GW Maverick - 2:0

    G1: I'm on play once again. I keep insane! hand containing: lackey, 3 lands, warchief, ringleader, krenko. I go mountain, lackey, pass. He plays savannah, hierarch and passes. I topdeck gempalm, put mountain into play, burn hierarch and connect with lackey which resolves for warchief. Next turn he plays another savannah and one more hierarch, pass. I topdeck tarfire, burn second hierarch, and go 3 damage (lackey + chief), lackey resolves once again, this time for Krenko, pass. He plays scavenging ooze and pass, I make some tokens at the end of his turn. In my turn I play ringleader into 3 goblins (2 of them matron), then I don't remember what happened exactly. All I know is that once again I won with board full of 1/1 tokens from krenko. He couldn't find sword, poor guy.

    G2: I'm on draw, keeping average hand, rather bad and slow. It's due to be noted I'm afraid to mulligan. He starts with t1 mother, t2 sfm for jitte, then in next turns he has every single good card from Maverick on board. Sfm, jitte, mother, ooze, hierarch, reliquary (like 8/8 at the time he was relevant). I'm chumpblocking as a motherfucker, trying to establish at least some board position. I remember him getting me down to 5 life, when I managed to get my hands on matron into tuktuk, getting rid of jitte. I also removed Relic, to get rid of reliquary and stingscourgered his Ooze. This was a long game (like 25 minutes). My biggest advantage was that he was so sure he was going to win, that he spent his swords for killing tuktuk and those shits, just to kill me fastest as possible with his big creatures. I managed to drive into lategame, where I managed to get a board position looking apx like this: few 1/1 goblins (matrons, tokens from MWM), 2 chieftains, 1 krenko. I play krenko's ability at the end of his turn, then in my turn topdeck krenko, play first krenko's ability, legend rule him out, play again with new krenko. From not-so-good position I stormed out with 32x 3/3 goblins in one turn.

    2 - 0

    Round 3 - Canadian Threshold - 2:0

    G1: I am on play again (what a luck), keep very good hand with lackey, removal, matron, ringleader. Play lackey, he plays something, I remove it next turn and connect. Like 5 turns later I win the game with double piledriver and some minions, this was very easy game for me, once again I was gifted with awesome topdecks versus him topdecking lands 3 turns in a row.

    G2: I'm on draw, I keep rather slow hand (like G2 against Maverick) with Relic of Progenitus. He plays t1 goose, t2 two gooses. He gets threshold by turn 4, way too fast for me and starts grinding my ass. In order to get this threshold he had to wasteland his own dual land, but after my insane g1 speed he thought this is the only way to beat me. He almost succeeded, killing and countering my goblins with three shroud monsters on board, I go down to 5 life. Then magic happens, he has 1 land in play (UG I think), 3 cards in hand. I finally get to play some goblins and start blocking those crazy squirrels. Even killing some of them during the combat. As it always is, goblins rock late game. I win few turns later with swarm of Krenko's tokens. Afterwards he shows me what 3 cards he had in hand. He is furious of anger, because those 3 cards were 3 lightning bolts and I had 5 life. He never got his hand on a red source, such a bad luck.

    3 - 0

    Round 4, final round - High Tide - 0:2

    G1: I get him down to 7, then he goes off. I haven't come prepared for this shit.
    G2: I side in 3 pyrostatic pillar and all grave hate (don't even know why, I kind of gave up when I saw him playing high tide deck). I get him down to 3! thanks to pyrostatic pillar and some attack. Turn after I got him down to 3 (with 1 tarfire in hand and 1 mana untapped), he bounces my pillar and goes off. I hit his head with tarfire in response to time spiral, draw another tafire, but have no lands to cast it.

    3 - 1

    So that's it, I finished second, beaten only by high tide. I got foil Scavenging Ooze and 2 booster packs for my effort.

    My notes from the tournament:

    1) Tarfire counts as BOTH tribal AND instant for goyf. Good to know, I tried to burn down goyf in one game, all graves empty and thanks to this he didn't die.
    2) Sharpshooter is awesome against Maverick.
    3) Tuktuk MD is a must.
    4) Don't go to a tournament with cards you are not familiar with. I wanted to play 4 RiP, ended up playing 3 relics which I didn't know the proper interactions for. That almost costed me a game against canadian, I was so bad using it.
    5) It's impossible to beat high tide without proper sideboard. 3 pyrostatic pillars were rather useless in this match, next time I shall focus on more combo hate.
    6) Krenko is the best finisher I can imagine. There hasn't been a game where I'd rather see Kiki/SGC on board instead of Krenko.

    I hope you enjoyed my report and survived all those grammatical mistakes :-) I wanted to share it with you, because this forum has been a great source of information for me. Therefore I wanted to give something IN too. Have a good day!

  4. #6604
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    Sandro95's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by prateta View Post
    Hello, my first tournament report here, although I have been reading this thread for years :-)

    Today I went 3-1 on small tourney in Prague. I played budget list of RW goblins (no wastes, no ports). Please excuse the grammar mistakes as english isn't my native language.

    Decklist:

    Spells & Artifacts

    3x Tarfire
    4x Vial

    Creatures

    1x Sharpshooter
    1x Stingscourger
    1x Tuktuk Scrapper
    3x Gempalm
    2x Krenko
    3x Warchief
    3x Piledriver
    4x Ringleader
    4x Matron
    2x Chieftain
    2x MWM
    4x Lackey

    Lands

    1x Plateau
    4x Cavern
    4x Bloodstained Mire
    14x Mountain

    SB:

    1x Rest In Peace
    3x Relic of Progenitus (wanted to play 4x RiP, but somehow couldn't get my hands on a playset the evening before the tourney started... so I decided to improvise with this - imo good - alternative)
    3x Pyrostatic Pillar
    3x Pyrokinesis
    4x Wear//Tear
    1x Stingscourger


    Now the games...

    Round 1 - RGB with punishing fire (don't know the exact name of the deck... it included such cards as goyfs, confidants, bloodbraid elf, maelstrom pulse, thoughtseize, ooze, liliana...) - 2:0

    G1: I am on play, keep very nice hand with vial, 3 lands, chieftain, warchief, ringleader. He mulls to 6. I open with mountain, vial and let him play. He starts with thoughtseize for my ringleader and passes the turn. I draw piledriver, +1 vial, play piledriver and let him play. He then puts second land and plays two! more thoughtseizes, getting me off my chieftain and warchief. I thought this didn't go well, then I realised he has almost no board position and I don't care about some discards. I got lucky with topdecks then, topdecked ringleader into 4 goblins (some haste lord, krenko, removal). He starts playing oozes and goyfs who all eat my removals, until few turns later I win the game with krenko tokens.

    G2: He starts, keeping his 7, neither do I. He plays t1 land and thougthseize (again? seriusly?), discarding my matron. I topdeck my only RiP in first draw and play it the turn after. He never got into the game after this (couldn't find abrupt decay for RiP), so I just proceeded to kill all his useless oozes and goyfs, and once again, finished with Krenko few turns later. This was a supreme start for me, I kissed Krenko's face, went for a cigarette just 5 minutes before round 2 started. Perfect timing.

    1 - 0

    Round 2 - GW Maverick - 2:0

    G1: I'm on play once again. I keep insane! hand containing: lackey, 3 lands, warchief, ringleader, krenko. I go mountain, lackey, pass. He plays savannah, hierarch and passes. I topdeck gempalm, put mountain into play, burn hierarch and connect with lackey which resolves for warchief. Next turn he plays another savannah and one more hierarch, pass. I topdeck tarfire, burn second hierarch, and go 3 damage (lackey + chief), lackey resolves once again, this time for Krenko, pass. He plays scavenging ooze and pass, I make some tokens at the end of his turn. In my turn I play ringleader into 3 goblins (2 of them matron), then I don't remember what happened exactly. All I know is that once again I won with board full of 1/1 tokens from krenko. He couldn't find sword, poor guy.

    G2: I'm on draw, keeping average hand, rather bad and slow. It's due to be noted I'm afraid to mulligan. He starts with t1 mother, t2 sfm for jitte, then in next turns he has every single good card from Maverick on board. Sfm, jitte, mother, ooze, hierarch, reliquary (like 8/8 at the time he was relevant). I'm chumpblocking as a motherfucker, trying to establish at least some board position. I remember him getting me down to 5 life, when I managed to get my hands on matron into tuktuk, getting rid of jitte. I also removed Relic, to get rid of reliquary and stingscourgered his Ooze. This was a long game (like 25 minutes). My biggest advantage was that he was so sure he was going to win, that he spent his swords for killing tuktuk and those shits, just to kill me fastest as possible with his big creatures. I managed to drive into lategame, where I managed to get a board position looking apx like this: few 1/1 goblins (matrons, tokens from MWM), 2 chieftains, 1 krenko. I play krenko's ability at the end of his turn, then in my turn topdeck krenko, play first krenko's ability, legend rule him out, play again with new krenko. From not-so-good position I stormed out with 32x 3/3 goblins in one turn.

    2 - 0

    Round 3 - Canadian Threshold - 2:0

    G1: I am on play again (what a luck), keep very good hand with lackey, removal, matron, ringleader. Play lackey, he plays something, I remove it next turn and connect. Like 5 turns later I win the game with double piledriver and some minions, this was very easy game for me, once again I was gifted with awesome topdecks versus him topdecking lands 3 turns in a row.

    G2: I'm on draw, I keep rather slow hand (like G2 against Maverick) with Relic of Progenitus. He plays t1 goose, t2 two gooses. He gets threshold by turn 4, way too fast for me and starts grinding my ass. In order to get this threshold he had to wasteland his own dual land, but after my insane g1 speed he thought this is the only way to beat me. He almost succeeded, killing and countering my goblins with three shroud monsters on board, I go down to 5 life. Then magic happens, he has 1 land in play (UG I think), 3 cards in hand. I finally get to play some goblins and start blocking those crazy squirrels. Even killing some of them during the combat. As it always is, goblins rock late game. I win few turns later with swarm of Krenko's tokens. Afterwards he shows me what 3 cards he had in hand. He is furious of anger, because those 3 cards were 3 lightning bolts and I had 5 life. He never got his hand on a red source, such a bad luck.

    3 - 0

    Round 4, final round - High Tide - 0:2

    G1: I get him down to 7, then he goes off. I haven't come prepared for this shit.
    G2: I side in 3 pyrostatic pillar and all grave hate (don't even know why, I kind of gave up when I saw him playing high tide deck). I get him down to 3! thanks to pyrostatic pillar and some attack. Turn after I got him down to 3 (with 1 tarfire in hand and 1 mana untapped), he bounces my pillar and goes off. I hit his head with tarfire in response to time spiral, draw another tafire, but have no lands to cast it.

    3 - 1

    So that's it, I finished second, beaten only by high tide. I got foil Scavenging Ooze and 2 booster packs for my effort.

    My notes from the tournament:

    1) Tarfire counts as BOTH tribal AND instant for goyf. Good to know, I tried to burn down goyf in one game, all graves empty and thanks to this he didn't die.
    2) Sharpshooter is awesome against Maverick.
    3) Tuktuk MD is a must.
    4) Don't go to a tournament with cards you are not familiar with. I wanted to play 4 RiP, ended up playing 3 relics which I didn't know the proper interactions for. That almost costed me a game against canadian, I was so bad using it.
    5) It's impossible to beat high tide without proper sideboard. 3 pyrostatic pillars were rather useless in this match, next time I shall focus on more combo hate.
    6) Krenko is the best finisher I can imagine. There hasn't been a game where I'd rather see Kiki/SGC on board instead of Krenko.

    I hope you enjoyed my report and survived all those grammatical mistakes :-) I wanted to share it with you, because this forum has been a great source of information for me. Therefore I wanted to give something IN too. Have a good day!
    Congratulations on your results! In my personal experience High Tide isn't a very bad matchup, it is possible your opponent just drew well. Normally, they're a fairly slow combo deck, in other words, one we can race. Anyways, once again, congratulations and thanks for an informative report.

  5. #6605
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    goblinsplayer's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Hi, i did not do well on the legacy challenge today and i wonder if there is something i need to change with my list. Espically the sb. Can you help me tune it for the open tomorrow?

    4 lackey
    4 matron
    4 ringleader
    4 warchief
    4 mwm
    3 piledriver
    3 gempalm
    2 tarfire
    1 shooter
    1 chieftain
    1 krenko
    1 stingscourger
    1 tuktuk
    4 vial

    4 port
    4 wasteland
    4 cavern
    10 mountain

    Sb
    4 cotv
    3 reb
    2 mindbreak trap
    3 relic
    3 pyrokinesis

  6. #6606
    Creature - Elf Wizard
    andrebonotto's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by max_goblin View Post
    Hello,

    Yesterday I was able to play a small legacy tournament, and went 2-2,

    (...)


    R1, D&T
    G1, I won the roll, go mountain lackey, he dont cast a drop1, lackey connects => ringleader => removal, gg.
    (...)


    R3, D&T.
    (...)
    G2, I go lackey, that drops a ringleader, after that we trade some creatures with removals, but we end with him play gaga for jitte, and I at 3 mana again... The wastelands and ports kept me off tuk tuk again, and I lose with 2 tuk tuk in my hand for just a crusader with SoFI and Jitte..

    (...)
    Am I playing wrong against Jitte? Do you guys have any advice?
    Sorry about the writting, I am a bit lazy to search for mistakes.
    Cya.
    Hi max,


    I couldn't help but notice that more than once you've dropped a Ringleader from a Lackey that connected very early.

    I know that the idea of reaching some (more) early removal through Ringleader is a tempting one, to try to control the board.
    However, maybe this early Ringleader is related to your lack of getting enough lands to continue developing your board (and playing your Tuk-Tuk, as you mentioned).

    (i.e., you may get your goblin-attached removal, but at the same time you may not get the lands that you needed to draw, since you throw them at the bottom of your library).

    What do you think about it?

    Maybe you could test some games where you try to hold your Ringleaders a bit longer until you draw some more lands, and see if that makes any difference?

    It was just something that occurred me...

    Best wishes,

    - André

  7. #6607
    Right Hand of Doom
    Barbed Blightning's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by goblinsplayer View Post
    Hi, i did not do well on the legacy challenge today and i wonder if there is something i need to change with my list. Espically the sb. Can you help me tune it for the open tomorrow?

    4 lackey
    4 matron
    4 ringleader
    4 warchief
    4 mwm
    3 piledriver
    3 gempalm
    2 tarfire
    1 shooter
    1 chieftain
    1 krenko
    1 stingscourger
    1 tuktuk
    4 vial

    4 port
    4 wasteland
    4 cavern
    10 mountain

    Sb
    4 cotv
    3 reb
    2 mindbreak trap
    3 relic
    3 pyrokinesis
    Not much to rune, tbh, but the rebs have never felt good in this deck, IMHO. What about CitR?

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
    "Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."

    I write articles about Legacy Death and Taxes. Check them out.

  8. #6608
    Member
    goblinsplayer's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning View Post
    Not much to rune, tbh, but the rebs have never felt good in this deck, IMHO. What about CitR?

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
    JC, I don't have access to citr and don't know how to play them. Thanks for the advice though. How are you doing in seattle?

  9. #6609
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    Sockosensei's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord View Post
    (1) You should definitely run Chrome Moxen. At least 2 in MD and I advice 1 more in the SB. That has proven good for ScatmanX and for me (you bring in the #3 Mox mostly in combo MUs and vs. Elves)
    (2) Revealing B splash G1. I can't tell for sure if you want Warren Weiridng, but revealing the B splash is definitely not an issue.
    (3) Ringleader-reshuffle vs. fetchland-thinning the deck out: It has been analyzed and it makes no difference that we could observe in a regular tournament.
    (4) In my oppinion 1 or maximum 2 slots should be enoug for the 'finisher' goblins. I can imagine even devoting 0 slots here, since Goblin Ringleader is quite the matchwinner too. Especially in lists that run 4 Piledrivers and 4 Goblin CHieftain, I think you got a sufficient number of finishers.
    (1) I'll certainly test it. Sometimes the choice I need to make with it just breaks my fragile heart.
    (2) I'm very happy with the effectiveness of Warren Weirding as a card. The issue is more the risk of fetching a Badlands early and exposing myself to Wasteland.
    (3) Great, thanks!
    (4) Understandable, and indeed this is indeed something I'm considering. 7 hastelords supporting crazy card advantage engines and powerful two-drops seems powerful on its own.
    Thanks!


    Quote Originally Posted by Bardu
    -Warren Instigator: The reason Lackey is good is because it costs R.
    No doubt that's the key to Lackey's power. No one's talking about replacing one card with the other. Rather it's one in addition to the other, giving you 8 early creatures with such effects. By running 4 Lackey, 4 WI, 4 Piledriver, you've got 12 early creatures that opponents MUST deal with, 8 of them immediately, and the Chieftains make them that much harder to kill. Whether the WI lists find the consistency of the Classic lists is still under investigation; the potential power is awesome.
    "I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours."

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  10. #6610

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by andrebonotto
    (i.e., you may get your goblin-attached removal, but at the same time you may not get the lands that you needed to draw, since you throw them at the bottom of your library).
    I've had the same thought, but I don't think it's valid. The chances of having X lands in your top 4 cards is the same as having X lands in cards 5-8. You may see the perfect distribution of lands go to the bottom and weep. But that doesn't mean you won't peel lands after the ringleader either.

    It's different if you are looking for a particular land. If you need to top deck the last Cavern in the library that's four draws at sending it to the bottom.
    "If magic is your crutch, cast it aside and learn to walk without it." —Teferi

  11. #6611

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by andrebonotto View Post
    Hi max,


    I couldn't help but notice that more than once you've dropped a Ringleader from a Lackey that connected very early.

    I know that the idea of reaching some (more) early removal through Ringleader is a tempting one, to try to control the board.
    However, maybe this early Ringleader is related to your lack of getting enough lands to continue developing your board (and playing your Tuk-Tuk, as you mentioned).

    (i.e., you may get your goblin-attached removal, but at the same time you may not get the lands that you needed to draw, since you throw them at the bottom of your library).

    What do you think about it?

    Maybe you could test some games where you try to hold your Ringleaders a bit longer until you draw some more lands, and see if that makes any difference?

    It was just something that occurred me...

    Best wishes,

    - André
    Thx for reading it =]
    I think in the same way as GoblinSettler, but, I agree that dropping an early ringleader is not optional.

    Most of the time I try to make my lackeys accel the best of my game, so dropping a 4cost creature is better than dropping a 3cost one. But I lost a lot of games with a full hand, but no board pressure. The problem I found is the following:
    Most of the time I have to choose, drop a 2drop from a lackey, or, drop a matron/ringleader, but a two drop is something I can easily cast, but ringleader/matron are cards that I want to cast later in the game, so I can bring my CA to work.

    The changes I would like to try:
    -1 Gempalm +1 tarfire (ScatmanX cant be wrong, and this really sound good for me).
    and I want to bring one more chieftain, so my MWM, Lackeys and Matrons are good even in the late game. I believe that what made me lose was the fact that I didnt have enough board pressure =/

  12. #6612
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardu View Post
    -Warren Instigator: The reason Lackey is good is because it costs R. And the reason Instigator is good is because he has Double Strike. Don't get the point
    -Goblin Chieftan: Glorious Anthem is not the strongest effect. I can see including him for redundancy, but even so he is a three drop. Haste is also pretty good in goblins too you know... and turning your 1/1s into 2/2s in a world of 1/2s is actually quite good (imagine if there was a way to pump a double striking goblins... that'd be awesome uh?
    -Krenko: This one I don't understand at all. He costs four less than our other finishers), needs to tapSo, great with more haste enablers right? wonder where we can find those...), needs board position(If by 'board position' you mean him and any other goblin, then right...), and dies to Lightning Bolt(guess you shouldn't play goblins if you want to play a deck where your guys don't die to Lightning Bolt...).
    -Tarfire: Kills Delver, hatebears, elves, etc. I can understand it as a tutor target, but Shock was never the best card (Mogg Fanatic was, and this is a straight upgrade in a world with Stoneforge, Delver, Shaman, Bob, yadayada... Don't underestimate the 'being a goblin' part. Read some reports.
    @prateta and max: Thanks for the reports.
    Quote Originally Posted by goblinsplayer View Post
    Hi, i did not do well on the legacy challenge today and i wonder if there is something i need to change with my list. Espically the sb. Can you help me tune it for the open tomorrow?
    Nothing wrong with the decklist. Maybe posting how you lost the games and how you sideboarded can help more than changing it outright.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinSettler View Post
    I've had the same thought, but I don't think it's valid. The chances of having X lands in your top 4 cards is the same as having X lands in cards 5-8. You may see the perfect distribution of lands go to the bottom and weep. But that doesn't mean you won't peel lands after the ringleader either.
    This is accurate.


    SO,
    Check what I played yeasterday:
    4 Wasteland
    2 Rishadan Port
    4 Caverns of Souls
    1 Karakas
    2 Plateau
    6 Fetchland
    4 Mountain

    4 Aether Vial
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    4 Goblin Warchief

    3 Mogg Warmarchall
    1 Goblin Piledriver

    1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    1 Stingscourger
    3 Gempalm Incinerator
    3 Tarfire

    3 Restorarion Angel
    SB:
    2 Chalice of the void
    2 Mindbreak Trap
    1 Ethersworn Cannonnist
    3 Thalia

    2 Boartusk Liege

    1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    2 Wear / Tear
    1 Oblivion Ring

    YEAHH! Restoration Angels ! That card is insane in goblins!
    Here’s how it played out:

    Round 1: Spiral Tide
    Game 1: Slow hand got combo’ed out.
    In: 8 combo-hate, 2 Boartusk. Out: 7 Removal, 1 Tuktuk, 2 Ringleader
    Game 2: Mull and kept Lackey, Matron, Canonist. Lackey connects, Matron>Piledriver, but He counters it. Had Caverns in hand, but wanted to protect Canonist. Draw Thalia, cast it and a Vial, and Port him. Draw CotV, play@1 while having Vial@2. Pretty much locked here.
    Game 3: Mull into the same start, but He blocks my Lackey T3 with a Snapcaster. I get CotV@1, and have Piledriver and Matron hitting, with Port out. He has the combo, but has to bounce CotV. In his 6th turn (lost a land drop on the 4th) I did not Port him. He had 5 lands now. Used 2 to bounce CotV, then used 1 to cast High Tide. I responded Porting an Island. He could only produce 3 mana, and needed 4 to go off. Had I ported him on his upkeep, I’d have lost.
    Kill him on the comeback.
    1-0

    Match 2: DnT
    Game 1: Win the roll, Lackey gets to connect twice.
    In: 2 Wear/Tear, 1 O.Ring, 1 Tuktuk, 1 Shooter. Out: 4 Lackey, 1 Piledriver
    Game 2: I kill a T1 Mom but He has another, followed by 2 Mirrand Crusader. I Matroned, and had Ringleader in my hand only, and made the terrible choice of searching for Sharpshooter. He casts and equips Sword U/R and I die.
    In: 2 Wear/Tear, 1 Tuktuk, 1 Shooter. Out: 2 MWM, 1 Angel, 1 Piledriver
    Game 3: We both have Vial, but I Wear/Tear his (card is awesome!). The 2/1 flash dude almost catches me of guard, but I find a Mountain on the top 4 cards. When Vial reached 4, I had Ringleader, 2x Angels and Krenko. Angels stopped his attacks and blinked Ringleader. It was more than enough. Finished the game with 7 cards on my hand.
    2-0

    Match 3: 12 Post
    Game 1: Lackey into Matron>Piledriver. He has Needle @Waste, then @Vial, then Crop Rotations into Chasm. Chasm takes him to 12, until He sacs it, and plays Kolziek. I had some onther goblins on the table, play Stingscourger, and win.
    In: 1 Tuktuk, 2 Wear/Tear, 1 Shooter, 1 O.Ring, 2 CotV. Out: 3 Tarfire, 3 Gempalm, 1 Angel.
    Game 2: Needle @Port and @Waste. I have Lackey. He bounces it. I play it again. He plays Tabernacle. I pay, swing, and Matron>Piledriver. He plays Elephant Grass. I pay for my 3 dudes, play Plateau and Wear/Tear the Elephant Grass. Hit and drop Tuktuk, bringing him to 11. He had SnT, but not the mana to cast it, and I steal this one too. (MY GOD, Wear/Tear is AWESOME!)
    3-0

    Match 4: UW Stoneblade
    Game 1: He leads with Stoneforge. I Tarfire it, then Port him. T4 he plays Geist. I Don’t port him and pass with 4 mana open. He doesn’t swing (Angel Power!), tap all lands and play Batterskull. I play Angel eot, untap, play Cavern and Kiki-Jiki and COMBO HIM OUT! Yeah! The deck is SICK!
    In: 1 Tuktuk, 2 Wear/Tear, 2 Liege. Out: 3 MWM, 1 Angel, 1 Piledriver.
    Game 2: I mull and have Vial. He gets Stoneforge into Batter, but is stuck with 2 lands. I get Tuktuk his Batter. From there Ringleader draw some dudes, Angel draw some dudes, and it’s over.
    4-0

    Hell yeah! Restoration Angel is AWESOME! Next Time I play him though Will probably trim it down to 2, and maybe add a 24th land (Port). The curve was significntly increased here (9 4drops and 1 5drop MD).

    Also, hereby I purpose a challenge. I want people to suggest an awesome list tat you haven’t have the time to test, for me to try out this Wednesday. Monored, or any combination of b, g or w (don’t have Volcanics). If it sounds great I’ll play it.
    Cheers.
    Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.

  13. #6613
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins


    Hey there fellow Chieftains,

    today it was tournament time again. I finished 2nd after 5 rounds with a solid 4-1 (again). I played Rb WINstigator Goblins (again) and performed some minor tweaks to my list.

    MANA (22)
    4 Wasteland
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Auntie’s Hovel
    3 Scalding Tarn
    1 Badlands
    2 Mountain
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain
    3 Chrome Mox

    CORE (23)
    4 Aether Vial
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Goblin Piledriver
    3 Goblin Warchief
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Ringleader

    OTHERS (15)
    4 Warren Instigator
    4 Goblin Chieftain
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    1 Tarfire
    2 Gempalm Incinerator
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Warren Weiridng
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper

    Sideboard (15)
    1 Chrome Mox
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Earwig Squad
    3 Perish

    The changes to my prior list were this:
    MD: +1 Chrome Mox, -1 Scalding Tarn
    MD: +1 Tuktuk Scrapper, -1 Krenko
    MD: +1 Warren Weirding, -1 Tarfire
    SB: +1 Chalice of the Void, -1 Tuktuk Scrapper

    Round 1 BYE
    I cheer a friend playing Merfolk in the parallel Modern event.

    1-0

    Round 2 Christian with Spanish Inquisition
    G1: I knew he was on Spanish Inquisition (for those of you who don’t know the deck: it’s a BG Turn-1-Glasscannon Combo Deck, similar to Rg Belcher, just half a turn faster). I pondered if I should concede G1 without showing him any card, since I would likely lose anyway. I decided to try it. He goes off Turn 2.

    IN: 4 Chalice, 1 Chrome Mox, 3 Earwig Squad, 4 Cabal Therapy
    OUT: 4 AEther Vial, 5 Spotremoval, 3 Ringleader


    G2: I knew I had to take mulligan to Chalice of the Void OR to Turn 1 Cabal Therapy. SO there we go.
    Draw 7: Turn 1 Lackey, no hatecards. Mulligan.
    Draw 6: No lands, no Chalice. Bye-bye.
    Draw 5: T1 Lackey again, but no hatecards. Mulligan
    Draw 4: 3 Lands, 1 Matron. Nope.
    Draw 3: Nope.
    Draw 2: Nope.
    Draw 1: Auntie’s Hovel.
    Well, what can I say? I won this game. Like…honestly, I won this game with a fucking mulligan to 1. I would REALLY love to tell you that my overwhelming Jedi-Force or some insanely well played card won me this. But that was not the case. I drew Cabal Therapy, Warren Instigator, Chieftain, Lackey and some lands. That’s the whole story. Cabal Therapy. Flashbacked with Lackey. True story.

    G3: my hand was like this:
    Goblin Lackey,
    2x Warren Instigator
    1 Goblin Chieftain
    1 Chalice of the Void
    2 Lands.

    The game went like this:
    Christian: *plays Lotus Petal* *plays Dark Ritual* “Well, since I go first and you don’t have any counters I just pull off my combo here, ok?”
    Me: “Well, you can do that as long as you ask me to respond after you cast your third spell.”
    Christian: “Hum. So you got a Mindbreak Trap.” *casts Cabal Therapy naming MBT* *play Dark Ritual* *plays Cruel Bargain to draw 4 and go to 10* *plays Chrome Mox* *plays Mox Opal*. “Go.”
    Well, I beat him on turn 3, which was an easy task as he had only 10 life left.
    Needless to say I was a little confused after this Round.

    2-0

    Round 3 Alex with UWR Patriot
    G1: Lackey out of a Caverns connects into Warchief + Chieftain on turn 2, followed by a Ringleader on turn 3. Alex scoops.

    IN: 4 Chalice of the Void
    OUT: 1 Tuktuk Scrapper, 1 Stingscourger, 1 Warchief, 1 Krenko


    G2: Delver on turn 1, Bolt for my Lackey on turn 2. Wasteland + Daze delay me long enough for Delver and True Name Nemesis to fish me off.

    G3: I start with Mountain, Chrome Mox, Chalice @ 1. GG!

    3-0

    Round 4Markus with Punishing Maverick
    G1: Markus has pretty strong raw with Death Rite Shaman, Mother of Runes, Grove of Burnwillows, Punishing Fire AND Life from the Loam (for recurring Groves). On turn 2 I attacked with Lackey and Chieftain into an untapped Deathrite Shaman, while markus had 2 lands untapped. I knew I could be screwed pretty badly by Punishing Fire (@Chieftain) there, but I think it was correct to take the risk. Well, Markus had Punishing Fire, which pretty much ended the game for me.
    I’d like hear some reactions on that situation!

    IN: 3 Perish, 1 Chrome Mox
    OUT: 4 Aether Vial


    G2: I kept a pretty strong hand with T1 Lackey and lots of stuff to put into play. Markus screwed up my plans with another Deathrite Shaman, followed by Mother of Runes, 2 Punishing Fires, Wasteland and Ajani Vengeant. This, plus not drawing a third manasource pretty much sealed the deal.

    3-1

    Round 5 Marcel with BG something
    G1 he quickly collapses under the pressure of Warren Instigator and Goblin Chieftain.

    IN: 3 Earwig Squad, 1 Chrome Mox
    OUT: 4 Aether Vial


    G2: I keep a risky hand with 4 lands, 1 Lackey and 1 Earwig Squad. His Thoughtseize on T1 sets me back...just a little. Eventually I happen to draw 4 cards out of my Goblin Ringleader and finishing his Liliana. He appears to stabilize with Toxic Deluge, but by that point I have enough Chieftains, Piledrivers and Ringleader in my sandbag to easily build up a lethal board position.

    4-1

    Thoughts:
    * I’m positive that 68/75 cards are just right in the decklist. The spots that I’m sure about are those:

    ”SETTLED” (56)
    4 Wasteland
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Auntie’s Hovel
    3 Scalding Tarn
    1 Badlands
    2 Mountain
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain
    2 Chrome Mox
    4 Aether Vial
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Goblin Piledriver
    3 Goblin Warchief
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    4 Warren Instigator
    4 Goblin Chieftain
    1 Tarfire
    2 Gempalm Incinerator
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Warren Weiridng

    OPEN SLOTS (4)
    X Chrome Mox
    X Scalding Tarn
    X Tuktuk Scrapper
    X Krenko Mob Boss
    X Tarfire

    Sideboard (15)
    1 Chrome Mox
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Perish
    3 OPEN SLOTS

    I don’t think that my choices for today were bad. They were “okay” - I’m just not sure if they are the best thing I can do with the list. How would you fill those 4 MD and 3 SB slots?

    * MVPs were Chieftain and Goblin Ringleader again
    * Warren Weirding good
    * Krenko was not needed and not wanted
    * Chrome Mox #3 was cool. There was NO point in the whole tournament where it would have been BAD to draw another Chrome Mox instead of another land.
    * Tuktuk was not needed either, except for Round 3 where I mistakenly boarded him out (luckily I didn’t get punished for that)
    * Earwig Squads were not match-winning, but they were not bad either. I still think this slot could be used better. But then again…it’s a freaking 5/3 body for 2B and I’m starting to believe that this is his actually value (stripping cards does not matter as much as I want it to)

    Thank you for reading. Questions are, as always, appreciated.


    @ ScatmanX: My suggestion would be the list above. Feel free to design the 7 open slots according to your wishes.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  14. #6614

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord View Post
    On turn 2 I attacked with Piledriver and Chieftain into an untapped Deathrite Shaman, while markus had 2 lands untapped. I knew I could be screwed pretty badly by Punishing Fire (@Chieftain) there, but I think it was correct to take the risk. Well, Markus had Punishing Fire, which pretty much ended the game for me.
    Well what did you risk? Even if he kills Chieftain with the Piledriver trigger on the stack he can't kill your Piledriver by blocking.. and if you hadn't attacked he still could've killed your Chieftain end of turn so did I miss something/did you forget something?

  15. #6615
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Holly View Post
    Well what did you risk? Even if he kills Chieftain with the Piledriver trigger on the stack he can't kill your Piledriver by blocking.. and if you hadn't attacked he still could've killed your Chieftain end of turn so did I miss something/did you forget something?
    I'm sorry it was LACKEY and Chieftain there. I edited the original post.
    So, yeah, I had something to lose there (and something relevant to put into play. Don't remember what it was though)
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  16. #6616

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord View Post
    I'm sorry it was LACKEY and Chieftain there. I edited the original post.
    So, yeah, I had something to lose there (and something relevant to put into play. Don't remember what it was though)
    Ah okay that makes sense.. well I would still probably go for it, chances are that your Lackey won't do anything this game anymore if he untaps with 3/4 mana anyway although he does have a lot of outs between Fire/Decay and him not casting anything with 3 mana is suspicious.

  17. #6617
    Legacy Vagabond
    Shawon's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Anyone watching Jim Davis vs. Ben Feingerish on SCGProv right now?

    Game 2, I think he should have attacked with the Prospector, and if Ben blocked with DRS, he could have then cast Pyrokinesis to remove all of Ben's creatures, nullifying Ben's Cradle. Thoughts?

    EDIT: Jim just lost. Ben recovered and cast NO-> Pro in two turns. I think leaving that Visionary alive saved Ben since it let him operate Cradle. It was downhill for Jim anyway, but I think Jim could've lasted a lot longer.

  18. #6618
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Hello everyone, Rg Classic player here (want to splash w too). I've been following this thread for some time, and decided to make an account.

    I have questions regarding two cards.
    First of all, is the split second-ability of Krosan Grip important enough in the current metagame to be played? I haven't seen it in any list, but I thought it might be useful against Jitte, Batter and Top. Is Wear//Tear significantly better? Does anyone have experience with Krosan Grip?

    Second of all, how good is Lightning Crafter? Almost same story as KGrip. Is he playable in combination with enough Warchiefs/Chieftains?

  19. #6619

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    ScatmanX: I played Restoration Angel Goblins at the last SCG: Open I played, going 5-4, losing to burn twice, Tin Fins, and BUG (barely). I had 24 land and 2 Angel as per your update. The reason I liked Angel was not only for the combo kill (blink Matron, grab Kiki, etc), but the fact that the Angel's body is actually perfect in Legacy, especially in poor matchups. Against decks like Jund or BUG, it dodges common removal spells such as Punishing Fire, Lightning Bolt, Abrupt Decay, and even Engineered Plague. I had no issues with the Angel itself other than having to play white mana. I didn't really draw it throughout the tournament other than my last round loss to BUG where in game 3 it almost pulled me back into the game against a Chill.

    You wanted decklists to test, so here was one I was pondering for awhile if it "peaks" your interest (no foreshadowing to Teetering Peaks or Peak Eruption :P):

    Mirror-Entity Goblins
    ---------------------

    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Mogg War Marshal
    4 Goblin Warchief
    4 Gempalm Incinerator
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    1 Goblin Piledriver
    1 Skirk Prospector
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Mirror Entity
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    1 Siege-Gang Commander
    ---32 Goblins---


    4 AEther Vial
    ---4 Non-Goblins---


    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Rishidan Port
    4 Wasteland
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Wooded Foothills
    2 Plateau
    4 Mountain
    ---24 Land---


    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    3 Pyrokinesis
    2 Relic of Progenitus
    2 Rest in Peace
    2 Wear // Tear
    2 Mindbreak Trap
    1 Boartusk Liege
    ---15 Sideboard Cards---


    Essentially, the maindeck is built as your typical fair value-driven Goblin deck with a minor token theme. What separates us from other similar builds is the power of Mirror Entity, which is a splashy but on theme (it's a Goblin!) card that does the following for the deck:

    1) With enough mana we can vial it in and either protect our creatures from Lightning Bolt or kill them out of nowhere. This part is obvious.

    2) It can turn our non-Goblin creatures into Goblins to favor cards like Gempalm Incinerator, Goblin Piledriver, and Krenko, Mob Boss. At the moment I didn't include maindeck Thalia but it would do this in Game 1's if you did.

    3) My favorite: With just a single Tuktuk Scrapper in the deck, you can only take out one of the 2 heralded equipment from a Stoneforge deck. But with the power of Mirror Entity's changeling ability, with a Scrapper already in play, you can take out the second one! What's more: If you pay a mana with the ability on the stack, it will deal damage to the opponent equal to the number of total creatures you have in play since it turns all of them into Allies. This can possibly give you a win against a Moat if the circumstances are perfect, or help kill a Jace, but it's super sweet.

    Mirror Entity is about the only thing exciting about the deck, but I thought it might be worth trying out!

  20. #6620
    Siege-Gang Commander
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by superspaceshooter View Post
    Mirror Entity is about the only thing exciting about the deck, but I thought it might be worth trying out!
    Mirror Entity has already been tested by several people and it was found to be underwhelming, if I remember correctly.

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