@ Gobolord: regarding Tin Street Hooligan; I can understand why he plays better than Tuktuk Scrapper. I only find it harder to play with, because of Warchief. Do you have any tips and tricks? I would like to play the little guy, but am very wary I make mistakes...
Happy new year from Moscow Russia! Good for you and our deck!
Hello everyone and Happy New Year!! First time poster, long time stalker. I am fairly new to the tribe but not new to legacy. I have been playing the mono red and thalia versions of this deck for the last few months with varied success. I am heading to SCG Indy this weekend and decided to try GoboLord's Rb list with a few minor tweaks. I think his list and the black splash in general is really good right now with all of the blue TNN and SFM equipment decks running around.
I am having a bit of trouble with the sideboard plan for this version. I feel like I want to bring in 8-13 cards for every match-up and I rarely know exactly what cards to take out. Sideboarding in general has always been a weak spot in my game. I was wondering if you all could make a few suggestions for sideboarding against some of the major match-ups.
Here is my list:
CORE (23)
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
3 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
OTHERS (15)
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Chieftain
1 Tarfire
2 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Warren Weiridng
2 Tuktuk Scrapper
MANA (22)
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Auntie’s Hovel
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Badlands
3 Mountain
3 Chrome Mox
Sideboard (15)
1 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Earwig Squad
2 Engineered Plague
1 Perish
1 Lightning Crafter
I'm not very sure about the meta going into this tournament. I think there should be a lot of mid-range decks like usual (many with TNN and SFM + equipment)... Combo like TES, Elves & S&T... and of course the usual random stuff you see at big legacy tournaments. If any of you are familiar with this list and know how you would sideboard against certain decks, please let me know. I'll take all the help I can get. Thanks guys!!
This is how I would board against...
ANT/TES:
-4 Vial, -5 Spotremoal, -2 Ringleader,
+1 Chrome Mox, +4 Cabal Therapy, +4 Chalice, +2 Earwig Squad
ELVES:
-4 Vial, -2 Warren Weirding, -1 Ringleader, -1 Tuktuk
+1 Chrome Mox, +1 Perish, +4 Chalice, +2 Engineered Plague
(b)URG Threshold:
- 2 Scrapper
+ 1 Perish, +1 Chrome Mox
SNEAK SHOW:
-2 Tuktuk, -1 Tarfire, -2 Gempalm, -2 Vial
+1 Chrome Mox, +4 Cabal Therapy, + 2 EWS
Those are the MU that I'm playing the most lately. Especially for the Combo MU (and i'm counting elves as combo here) it's not bad to bring in many cards. I have not thought about other MUs in detail, since I usually make my boarding "on the fly" as they say, but I think I wouldn't bring in more than 2 cards in any other MU. Your SB (and mine too, for that matter) is quite dedicated to a combo-heavy metagame. So, I would suggest a really simple, but effective excercise if you have trouble with SBing.
After G1 you shuffle your while sideboard into your MD and then you identify the worst 15 cards, starting with the most obvious and pondering about the 1 or 2 remaining slots that are less clear to you.
You can simulate that for yourself and at home by thinking about any MU you want. If you have any questions feel free to ask.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
Thanks GoboLord! I'm surprised you don't board in the Chalice against RUG/BUG. Do you think Cabal Therapy & EWS are good against the Stoneforge Mystic decks that are packing True-Name Nemesis? Aside from the decks you already listed, that is the one I'm worried about the most. I have never tried the shuffle in the whole sideboard thing but I might actually try that this weekend. Thanks again for the suggestions!
Well, technically you CAN bring in Therapies to "counter" SFM, but I wouldn't do so since you already got 2 Tuktuk Scrapper in your MD. Last time I played vs. Patriot (which is probably what you meant with "Stoneforge Mystic decks that are packing True-Name Nemesis"?) i boarded 4 Chalices and #4 Chrome Mox. I landed Chalice @1 on turn 1 which settled the game immediately, but at that time I didn't know they were playing SFM.
This can happen with BUG/RUG Thresh as well, but in general I think you want to be in a really aggressive role and Chalice doesn't help you with that as much as Perish does. I think the moment when you have a more favorable boardposition (more creatures) than them, you are really close to victory. Chalice doesn't help you establish that position, which is why I prefer to have removal here instead. Chalice can be a blank draw in turn 3 onwards, and you don't want that in a matchup that is as close as this one.
My take on the Patriot MU (taking your list) would be this:
- Nothing
+ Nothing
It's not wrong to bring 4 Chalice of the Void, but I honestly would not know what to board out here.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
Hey y'all. I just decided to add black to my deck for 3x Warren Weirding and 3 or 4x Earwig out of the sideboard. What is the optimal land base for such a splash? I have access to 4x Auntie's Hovel, 4x Badlands and 6x Fetchlands.
Hi, if I were you I'd go with 2x Badlands and 6 fetchlands.
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Ill do like this
ANT/TES:
-4 Vial, -2 1b remoal, -4 Ringleader, -1 tarfire
+1 Chrome Mox, +4 Cabal Therapy, +4 Chalice, +2 Earwig Squad
Gempalms cycling this is good.
ELVES:
-4 Vial, -2 Ringleader, -2 Tuktuk
+1 Chrome Mox, +1 Perish, +4 Chalice, +2 Engineered Plague
Vs elfs you need all removal
@cooljets: I've just Build an rb-variant. I know im very Conservative there, but as soon as i play Warren Weirding + any other Black spell i want to Play the Basic swamp. It just happened to often, that my Single Black Source was wasted by a rüg player and i wasn't able to use Perish or weirding.
My Manabase Looks like this:
3 Mountain
1 Swamp
3 Cavern
3 Waste
2 Port
7 Fetches (Obv. 4 Bloodstained Mire)
3 Badlands
I play 4 Cabal therapy for the Combo MU's. So I really want this 11 Black sources.
If You Don't Play them 9-10 could be enaug, although you want the possibility of T1 Lackey, T2 edict, exspecially if you want to tun 3 copies.
Hey guys,
I've played a tournament this week (monday, 30.12. to be more precise) with roughly the same list as last time (+1 Shrapshooter, -1 Earwig Squad in the Sideboard and +1 Fetchland, -1 Wasteland in the MD compared to my last tournament):
3 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Auntie’s Hovel
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Badlands
2 Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
3 Chrome Mox
CORE (23)
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
3 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
OTHERS (15)
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Chieftain
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Tarfire
2 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Stingscourger
1 Warren Weiridng
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
Sideboard (15)
1 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Earwig Squad
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
3 Perish
Here are my results, no detailed report this time, sorry, only results and boarding plans. But there will be a little exercise at the end.
Round 1: ??? with TES (2-1),
-4 Vial, -2 Gempalm, -1 Weirding, -1 Tarfire, -1 Stinger, -3 Ringleader
+4 Chalice, +4 Therapy, +2 Squad, +1 Sharpshooter, +1 Chrome Mox
Round 2: ??? with Imperial Painter (2-0)
-4 Vial, -2 Gempalm, -1 Weirding
+4 Therapy, +2 Squad, +1 Chrome Mox
Round 3: Stefan with Sneak Show (1-2)
-4 Vial, -1 Tuktuk, -1 Tarfire, -1 Gempalm
+4 Therapy, +2 Squad, +1 Chrome Mox
Round 4: Timo with UBrg ANT (1-2)
-4 Vial, -2 Gempalm, -1 Weirding, -1 Tarfire, -1 Stinger, -3 Ringleader
+4 Chalice, +4 Therapy, +2 Squad, +1 Sharpshooter, +1 Chrome Mox
Round 5: Milan with UBG Deedstill (2-1)
-1 Warren Weiridng, -1 Stingscourger
+2 Earwig Squad
Round 6: Pascal with UBrg ANT (0-2)
-4 Vial, -2 Gempalm, -1 Weirding, -1 Tarfire, -1 Stinger, -3 Ringleader
+4 Chalice, +4 Therapy, +2 Squad, +1 Sharpshooter, +1 Chrome Mox
Round 7: Florian with Ug 12 Post (2-0)
-3 Vial, -1 Tarfire
+4 Chalice of the Void
Conclusions
* the deck still feels solid
* I'm thinking about adding Chrome Mox #4 to the MD and cutting Krenko in the process
* MVPs were Goblin Chieftain and Goblin Ringleader (again and again and again and...)
* had two games were I finished my opponents of witha 6/4 hardcast Earwig Squad
* the most important lesson I learned that day is not to ignore my itching nose, my gut-feeling, my intuition,...whatever you may call it
Now, on to the promised exercise. I had 2 REALLY interesting situation that I want to discuss with you/ that I want to hear your oppinion about.
1) Round 4, Game 3 vs. UBrg ANT
Timo won game 1, I won game 2, due to a very sloppy keep from Timo's side.
So, he goes first in game 3.
My hand is: Cabal therapy, Chalice of the Void, Matron, Warchief, Chieftain, Mountain, Auntie's Hovel.
Timo's first turn: Gitaxian Probe, Gitxian Probe, Polluted Delta > Island , Ponder > Shuffle > Random-Draw, Lion's Eye Diamond, Lotus Petal (both because he saw my Chalice of the Void), Go. (4 cards in hand, 15 life)
My turn: I draw another Goblin Warchief.
-PAUSE-
QUESTION: What would you have done on turns 1 and 2?
2) Round 3, Game 3 vs. Sneak SHow
I won game 1 and lost game 2, so I go first in game 3.
My hand is: Scalding Tarn, Bloodstained Mire, Mountain, Cavern of Souls, Lackey, Matron, Earwig Squad.
ME: Tarn > Badlands, Lackey, GO.
OPP: Volcanic Island, Ponder, Draw, GO.
ME: (draw Cabal Therapy), Mountain, attack > Matron > Stingscourger, Cabal Therapy (naming Sneak Attack), Flashback (naming Show and Tell), remainig cards in his hand: Spell Pierce, Emrakul, Brainstorm, Sensei's Diving Top, Scalding Tarn, Polluted Delta.
OPP: Polluted Delta, Sensei's Diving Top, GO.
ME: (draw Warren Instigator), attack > Winstigator, Earwig Squad, in response: fetch + Brainstorm, EWS > 3x Sneak Attack), GO.
OPP: upkeep: using Sensei's, play Scalding Tarn, uses Sensei's, fetch, uses Sensei's, GO.
ME: (draw Goblin Warchief).
-PAUSE-
The boardstate at that time is pictured below. Please take a look at his library, which shows the card important for you to make a decision.
What would you have done in this turn?
I'm really looking forward to hear your responses on those 2 questions.
-GL
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
Nice. Ok:
Case #1
Id Cabal him and name Infernal Tutor. AnT can generate a hole lot of mana. Tutor is the best card he could have to go off because he already had LeD +2 mana into play. Also, the only 4of busines he run. Then, if after seing his hand you think he might try to go off next turn, or if he had disruption like Seize, Id play CotV. Otherwise Id try to settle it @1 next turn.
Case#2
Here you know 3 important things. SnT is pretty much useless now; he probably wont Sneak attack you in the next turn; he MAY Pyroclasm you. Considering this, that you already have a 5/3 on the board, and that you really dont want to give him too much time, Id go for the fastest kill and play land and Warchief. Curious to know how he won that game...
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Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
2) Play Fetchland, Attack for 8 bring in nothing.
Why? You don't improve your clock by attacking and he has 1 draw step anyway.
If he draws Pyroclasm you at least still have lethal next turn (Squad, Warchief + Sting = 9).
If he draws SnT you have Stingscourger.
If he draws Sneak Attack and the unknown card is a Sol Land (or vice versa) you can sac your lands and everything but the Squad to put him on a 2turn clock.
Oh and I would've led with Cavern -> Lackey.. in the random case he Forces your Lackey you seriously lack pressure with this hand.
1) Well playing Chalice x=0 doesn't make a ton of sense unless he draws a bunch of cards via Ad Nauseam in which case you're probably dead anyway.
Thus I'd let with Cabal Therapy t1 and probably play the Chalice T2 depending on what I draw & see.
The more interesting question would be what to name with the Therapy..
He played his artifacts -> no need to name them.
Assuming he has another land he has 5 mana with a single DR, thus enough for a natural Ad Nauseam and obviously enough for IT -> Ad Nauseam (thanks to LED). He also could go land, DR, IT (sac LED), PiF, DR, IT, Tendrils but hes lacking storm for that thus needs further cards, anyway Ad Nauseam should kill you most of the time.
A single Cabal Ritual would him only put him to 4 mana (assuming he doesn't have ********). At the moment he has 4 cards in the gy and can get a 5th in a pinch thanks to the Petal. If he goes for fetch (5 cards), sac Petal (6), he lacks 1 mana for Tutor -> resp. CR -> resp. LED.
If I made no mistake in my thinking here I think its safe to say that:
Name DR if you are afraid to die next turn.
Name CR if you go for the high risk / high reward play since its way more powerful t3 (for having ***** and since you disable DR t2).
Another choice would be to call Tutor/Wish (assuming thats what hes splashing red for).
Assuming its 4 and 4 one is most likely as good as the other for the purpose of killing you.
Anyway I'd rather say IT than Wish since:
a) It's allways an 4of.
b) It can grab CR if he has one play around your following up of Chalice x = 1.
Its true that he could go for Wish -> Discard -> getting rid of chalice, though that also "gets rid" of 1 Buisness spell.
So now the question is:
Whats better DR vs IT
and CR vs IT.
Well most likely I'd end my thinking here, since in all those cases IT can kill me, I'll call it, pray he doesn't have DR & Wish and most likely go for Chalice x=1 in my next turn in case I'm still living.
Case#1 I'd make the same play versus ANT, I think Infernal Tutor is the best name here.
Case#2 If our opponent pyroclasms next turn, holding Warchief is better for us since our opponent would be at 8 and we would be able to play Warhcief>Stingscourger next turn and attack for lethal.
If our opponent doesn't pyroclasm, playing Warchief doesn't speed up our clock.
If our opponent goes Sneak attack>Emrakul having Warchief in play is better.
I find it more likely that the opponent will find Pyroclasm than Sol land + Sneak attack, so I'd propably hold Warchief in hand.
Currently supporting RW Goblins, but what is the consensus on the best build for Goblins currently? RW, RB, Mono-red, other?
You wrote exactly what I was thinking and that's exactly what I did in both cases.
Case#1:
I named Infernal Tutor. I saw: Brainstorm, Past in Flames, Cabal Ritual, Chain of Vapor. Next turn Timo went off. Brainstorm must have been pretty good there.
The thing is that, the moment I played Cabal Therapy, I had this "feeling", this itching nose of mine, telling me to call Brainstorm. But thinking logically as you guys did I came to the conclusion that Infernal Tutor was a better call. This can be nothing more than coincidence, but sometimes you just gotta trust your intuition. In fact, seen scientifically, "intuition" is nothing less than a decision that came into your mind by unconsciously evaluating a ton of subtle factors that you would never be able to evaluate when consciously thinking about such problems. Maybe it was the greedy look in his eyes, or the fact that he kept a sloppy hand and felt overly self-secure and risk-taking...I don't know, I believe that there has to something about it.
Well, whatever, next time then.
Case#2:
Same thing here. By itching nose told me to go play Bloodstained Mire, Goblin Warchief, keep Stinger in hand and attack him for 10. But thinking about it I came to the conclusion that playing around Pyroclasm would be just better. So I attacked for 8, played Mire and passed. However, I have run through a lot of possible scenarios after that game and I came to the conclusion that there was a way to play that turn which would have made it close to impossible for me to lose that one. Let me show you my options.
There are 3 options for me and 5 for my opponent. (so 3x5= 15 scenarios)
M1: play Mire, Attack for 8, putting gim to 8
M2: play Mire, play Warchief, attack for 10, putting him to 6
M3: play Mire, play Warchief, play Stingscourger, attack for 12, putting him to 4
After thinking about it a lot, there were only 5 scenraios that would prevent my opponent from losing the next turn. Remember, he had Emrakul, Spell Pierce and Unknown in hand, SDT in play, a regular drawphase and 3 lands in play. This means he can have max. 3 unknown cards by next turn (drawphase, SDT-> draw),
O1: (1) Show and Tell (into Emrakul), (2) irrelevant, (3) irrelevant
O2: (1) Show and Tell, (2) Grieselbrand, (3) manasource
O3: (1) land, (2) Show and Tell OR Lotus Petal, (3) Sneak Attack (into Emrakul)
O4: (1) Pyroclasm, (2) non-fetchland manasource, (3) irrelevant
O5: (1) Pyroclasm, (2) Pyroclasm, (3) manasource
Let'S go through the scenarios one by one:
O1: (1) Show and Tell, (2) irrelevant, (3) irrelevant
I win, no matter which of the 3 options I chose.
M1: I put Stingscourger into play and swing for 8+ next turn
M2: same.
M3: I attack and deal 5+ dmg.
O2: (1) Show and Tell, (2) Grieselbrand, (3) manasource
M1: I put Stingscourger into play and swing for 8+ next turn
M2: same.
M3: I need a Piledriver or Matron, or Ringleader, or Chieftain (so, 1/3rd of the deck helps me out)
O3: (1) land, (2) Show and Tell OR Lotus Petal, (3) Sneak Attack (into Emrakul)
M1: I sacrifice everything exept for Earwig Squad, attack for 5 next turn (puting him to 3) and force him to topdeck a fattie
M2: I sacrifice everything exept for Earwig Squad and Warchief, attack for lethal damage
M3: I sacrifice everything exept for Earwig Squad and Warchief and Winstigator, attack for lethal damage
O4: (1) Pyroclasm, (2) non-fetchland manasource, (3) irrelevant
M1: play Warchief and Stingscourger and attack for lethal damage
M2: attack for 5, putting him to 1, and force to draw Sneak Attack AND Emrakul next turn (if I draw Wasteland the game is over immediately)
M3: I attack for lethal damage
O5: (1) Pyroclasm, (2) Pyroclasm, (3) manasource
M1: I have a 4 turn clock or faster with Stingscourger backup
M2: I have no clock with Stingscorger backup
M3: I have no clock and no backup
As you can see, going for option M2 or M3 would have been the right call, since both lines of play can only turn out to be a failutre if very psecific conditions are met (or to say it everyday-language: if my opponent is a huge lucker who has sold his soul to the devil).
Oh, and this is what happend.
ME: attack for 8, putting him to 8 life. I play Bloodstained Mire and pass the turn (4 lands, 3 creatures in play).
OPP: regular draw, taps SDT to draw a card, plays a fetchland > Volcanic Island (7 life), plays Lotus Petal, plays Sneak Attack > Emrakul, attack for 15, I sacrifice anything except Earwig Squad.
ME: draw something, attack for 5, putting him to 2
OPP: plays Brainstorm, finding Griselbrand, activate Sneak Attack into Griselbrand for the WIN.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
More videos of legacy Goblins...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLHjGnfqHp0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4wRiviwis0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No6rtuWVuGY
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