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Thread: [Deck] Goblins

  1. #6861
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbyLegacy View Post
    1st thing you may notice. no Wastelands and Ports. After play testing I found that it slowed down the deck. I found I did not ever want to loose mana because I was spending it every turn just dropping treats.
    First, grats on the result!

    When I looked at your MUs, I noticed 0 combo of any form (storm, belcher, dredge, reanimator, omnitell, sneakshow, allspells, ...) except Elves. Goblins is notoriously bad at combo matches. Mana Denial is generally gobbo's #1 plan (alongside SB hate) to slowdown combo enough for our little green men to finish them. IMO this is where Waste/Port shine the most. So I wonder if your sample size is biased, i.e. if you didn't miss Waste and Port because you didn't face any real combo. Have you tested your list against combo otherwise? How does it fare?

    NOTE: You did face elves, but you lost G1 and won post-board after boarding in Pyrokinesis on their mana engine (sticking with the mana denial plan.. Elves is unique in that their mana is creature-centric)

    Also, I wonder if the tempo boost from manadenial could have helped you beat that Blade deck. Casting TNN and equipping Swords is very mana-intensive. Historically, I have beaten equipment with Goblins by playing tempo (Waste aggressively, Port on upkeep to prevent equipping, bounce or kill 1st creature in response to equip activation). Once the equipment comes online, be it Jitte or SoFaI, we just flat out lose. So my plan has always been to play the tempo game, punishing them for the heavy mana investment, trying to delay it a few turns and win first. Without mana denial, maybe you want a green splash and Tin-Street Hooligan? Scrapper is too slow and expensive I think.



    Do to this I was able to cut lands and play more spells. 4x Tarfires, 3X Chieftain , 4x Warchiefs so far seems very powerful from what I have tested.
    Based on the above discussion with Gobolord, it sounds like 4 Tarfire + 7 hastelords is optimal in the meta regardless of the rest of the deck. Your results seem to confirm that. Tarfire was MVP. But I wonder if other slots (e.g. Sharpshooter+Skirk, Mogg War Marshal) could be cut instead of the manadenial lands.

  2. #6862
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Albylegacy
    1st thing you may notice. no Wastelands and Ports. After play testing I found that it slowed down the deck. I found I did not ever want to loose mana because I was spending it every turn just dropping treats.
    First of all, congrats for your good result.
    Secondly, i'm not convinced at all by your list. You say that waste and ports slow down the deck, but you must realize that we play those lands not just to disrupt the opponent, but also because anyway they produce (colorless)mana. By cutting wastes and ports you are playing just 18 lands, wich are played for example in burn decks that feature only one drops and two drops. Since we are playing a lot of three drops and 4 drops , it's impossible in my opinion to play just 18 lands. I know that your result show the opposite, but i suppose you just have been lucky to draw all the lands you need or to always have a vial on turn one. Math just doesn't support playing 18 lands in a deck like goblins.

  3. #6863
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    First, grats on the result!

    When I looked at your MUs, I noticed 0 combo of any form (storm, belcher, dredge, reanimator, omnitell, sneakshow, allspells, ...) except Elves. Goblins is notoriously bad at combo matches. Mana Denial is generally gobbo's #1 plan (alongside SB hate) to slowdown combo enough for our little green men to finish them. IMO this is where Waste/Port shine the most. So I wonder if your sample size is biased, i.e. if you didn't miss Waste and Port because you didn't face any real combo. Have you tested your list against combo otherwise? How does it fare?

    NOTE: You did face elves, but you lost G1 and won post-board after boarding in Pyrokinesis on their mana engine (sticking with the mana denial plan.. Elves is unique in that their mana is creature-centric)

    Also, I wonder if the tempo boost from manadenial could have helped you beat that Blade deck. Casting TNN and equipping Swords is very mana-intensive. Historically, I have beaten equipment with Goblins by playing tempo (Waste aggressively, Port on upkeep to prevent equipping, bounce or kill 1st creature in response to equip activation). Once the equipment comes online, be it Jitte or SoFaI, we just flat out lose. So my plan has always been to play the tempo game, punishing them for the heavy mana investment, trying to delay it a few turns and win first. Without mana denial, maybe you want a green splash and Tin-Street Hooligan? Scrapper is too slow and expensive I think.





    Based on the above discussion with Gobolord, it sounds like 4 Tarfire + 7 hastelords is optimal in the meta regardless of the rest of the deck. Your results seem to confirm that. Tarfire was MVP. But I wonder if other slots (e.g. Sharpshooter+Skirk, Mogg War Marshal) could be cut instead of the manadenial lands.
    thanks. yea, wastelands and ports are for combo for the most part . i did get lucky that i did not play decks like that. i have played vs strom and challice is my answer for that. the others i have not tested. maybe after some more testing i might decide on taking other things out for waste and ports. this was a test run on this idea and it did well. VS deathblade waste and ports i am not sure what would of happen. in my other match ups i did not need them, but ill be doing more testing and going to starcity orlando fl. so ill keep every one posted. again i am not saying this it the optimal list. just a idea i had and it performed well. i will also be posting play testing videos in the next few days. thanks for the feed back.

  4. #6864
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Played a Local Legacy today, 4 rounds 13 people.

    //Lands (23)
    3 Mountain
    1 Taiga
    1 Plateau
    3 Scalding Tarn
    3 Arid Mesa
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Rishadan Port
    4 Wasteland

    //Core [23] (-1 Warchief)
    3 Gempalm Incinerator
    2 Tarfire
    2 Tin Street Hooligan
    3 Mogg War Marshal
    2 Goblin Chieftain
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss

    //Sideboard
    3 Mindbreak Trap
    3 Relic of Progenitus
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    3 Confusion in the Ranks
    3 Pyrokinesis

    Just went 3/1 at a local tournament to lock in 14 dollars store credit of which I payed 6 to enter.

    Round 1 - 2/1 - 12 Post.
    Game 1: Turn 1 I drop a lackey, and he follows suit with a Glimmerpost. I now know he's playin 12 post and My hand at this point looks similar to Pile, Pile, Mogg, Mogg, Waste, Waste. I feel good about this game. I waste his Glimmerpost to bide time for my Piledriver team, and Lackey in a Pile. His next turn he drops a fetch. I knock him for 4 and put in a Pile, laying my waste. His next turn he drops another fetch and passes. I topdeck a Fetch, land it, and attack for 15, aka lethal. He cracks his fetch, into a dual into Crop Rotation Into Glacial Chasm so my attack is negated. I pass, he plays a top, spins it, cracks, spins again, glances at my tapped waste and forfeits game 1.
    Boarding: I boarded in 3 Thalia and took out 2 Tarfire and 1 Gempalm.
    Game 2: My opener 6 lands and a dude, I Mulligan. The next one is Vial, Vial, Pile, Matron, Ringleader, Mountain. I take it. This game goes very long. He sat behind a Glacial Chasm for a long time while sitting with a Kozilek that he brought in via Show and Tell. Not attacking, sitting. Did I mention he had a Pithing Needle set to Wasteland. I of course had a Krenko and a warchief and some critical mass of Goblins. I was holding the Tin Street Hooligan, but there was no way for me to get rid of my Warchief. Look guys, the Non-bo! He was taking the hit instead of blocking it out of fear of me having Tin Street. I eventually drew a Gempalm Incinerator and cycled it to kill Kozilek, drew another Tin Street as backup. His turn he spun the top agian into Miracle Bonfire of the Damned, though not for a ton, 2 active Ports. I lost my field and took 3. My following turn I killed him by emptying my hand that I had been holding.
    Game 3: We started, I kept another lackey opener, lucky me, and started getting some good board advantage when turns was called. I got lucky and drew the right amount of threats to get through his Crop Rotion tech.

    Round 2 - 2/1 - Dredge
    Game 1: I start the game with a slow opener of double Waste, 2 Fetch, Pile, Mogg, Mogg. I slap Waste and pass. He passes and discards Golgari Grave Troll. I quickly lose to my bad opener and his good clock. My mistake. I will mulligan more.
    Boarding: I board in 3 Thalia and 3 Relic, I board out 2 Tarfire, 2 Gempalm, 1 Sharpshooter, 1 Ringleader
    Game 2: I find an opener of Relic, Thalia, Vial, Piledriver, Mogg, Port, Port. Really close to perfect, I keep it. I start the game with the Vial, thinking that since I don't have a White, I need her out and I can always drop the Relic turn two and pop it if need be. Simply Put I manage to get both out and he kind of dies. I popped the relic somewhere in there, but it bought enough time.
    Game 3: I find Lackey, Thalia, Ringleader, Ringleader, Mountain after 2 mulligans. I keep it, and of course Draw a fetch. I'm apparently rather lucky. It seals the deal at this point and I hit him to death.. again.

    Round 3 - 0/2 - RUG Delver with homebrew tech
    Game 1: My Opener was Wasteland, Wasteland, Wasteland, Fetch, Port, Lackey, Mogg. I kept it thinking I can simply waste them out and then deal with the delver if they have it. He goes first and drops an Island. Not a Fetch, and Island. Taps it and puts in a Delver. My plan looks pretty bad right about now. I drop the fetch, crack for mountain and drop lackey, which gets dazed. I probably should have waited a turn. The rest of the game is his after his Delver Blind Flips.
    Boarding: I board in 3 Relic, I board out Sharpshooter, 2 Tin Street
    Gamd 2: My opener has a Relic and a Vial and no lands. I ship it and receive a similar hand with 1 Fetch and no other lands. After debating I take it. My vial gets dazed showing me that I clearly need to practice this matchup and the relic ends up not doing anything. I never saw a Cavern so a very large number of important top decks were countered. I died to 2 Flipped delvers, he never drew a Nimble Mongoose or Tarmogoyf.
    I asked him about his deck afterwords and he let me know he didn't play Goose, he actually was running Snapcaster Mages in that slot. I found that strange but hey, he beat me.

    Round 4 - 2/0 - Stoneblade with Delver.
    Game 1: He drops a Fetch into Tundra into Delver. I go first with an 6 keep of Port, Port, Fetch, Pile, Mogg, Chieftain. I play a Fetch and pass. He drops a Fetch into Tundra into Delver. Gross. I top deck a Waste and Waste it. He never actually played another land the entire game. I eventually killed the delver while I was at about 10 with 2 Tarfire's, he forced one. I then killed him just by having dudes of any kind.
    Boarding: I board nothing. The only card I considered was Pyrokinesis as an extra removal spell. Thalia seemed good but I wanted a high goblin count. Someone correct me here, because I'm sure not boarding was incorrect.
    Game 2: I have an opener of Cavern, Cavern, Cavern, Fetch, Tarfire, Tin Street, Chieftain. I keep it and it works exactly as it should have. He drops a stoneforge on turn 2 and I kill it. He then drops a Jitte with nothing to move it to and I kill it. I then kill him.

    So all in all I went 3/1 and snagged 14 Dollars.
    What I learned:
    -Draw Phasing a Port Activation is a good way to make your opponent accidently skip his chance to spin his top.
    -I am significantly more confidant in my Combo Matchups, which is strange considering the deck.
    -In the previous' regard, I need way more practice at fair games of all types.
    - That playing on 3 hours of sleep after a work day makes me forget that I had no sleep because Magic is awesome. I feel it really heavily now that I am writing this.
    -Delver's clock is solid. It makes me want to curse loudly at Blue's newly designed creature base of Delver, Snapcaster Mage and True-Name Nemesis.

    Cards that mattered today:
    Piledriver moved my clock up really fast against the type of decks I played against.
    Krenko is great at beating niche matchups. Some people simply don't have a plan for it.
    Cards that didn't matter today:
    Sharpshooter. Nothing relevant to shoot.

  5. #6865
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    @ Olaf Forkbeard
    gratz/ ill try your list in Russia) but will need some disenchants in sb because a lot of Plagues.
    1-what do you think about 1 siege(does it realy need, or may be second krenco? for not to vial@5)?
    2-what do you think about 1 sting. i think he is bad now.
    3-if cut shooter(i agree) and siege, do we need skirk? i think no. what do you think about it?
    4-i think that MWM now is metagame card. if there are no mav,zoo and a lot of deathblade, uwr, mirakl we dont need them at all. what do you think about it?

    for example what do you think about this list
    4 AEther Vial
    4 Goblin Lackey
    2 Tarfire
    1 Skirk Prospector
    1 Mogg War Marshal(could be chieftain. or we may cut 1 gemp to add second MWM, Chief or Tar)
    4 Goblin Piledriver
    4 Gempalm Incinerator
    2 Goblin Chieftain
    3 Goblin Warchief
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    2 Tin Street Hooligan
    2 Krenko, Mob Boss(5-6 haste lords want us to play 2 Krenco)
    4 Scalding Tarn
    1 Arid Mesa
    1 Taiga
    4 Wasteland
    4 Rishadan Port
    4 Cavern of Souls
    1 Plateau
    3 Snow-Covered Mountain
    1 Wooded Foothills

  6. #6866
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Reposting since my last post was in the middle of a discussion and was ignored:

    «
    Just seeking cards that may be interesting, what do you think?

    Goblin Diplomats: removing blockers, yes you may take damage, but if your opponent dies, who cares?
    Taurean Mauler: While he is not in the main strategy of the goblins, he may become big really fast, and becomes a great threat, while he may be fetched and counts as a goblin.
    Goblin Grappler: Removing the big blocker from the path of your Piledriver.
    Mogg Maniac: Against big creatures or in combination with the Gempalm Incinerator to do big damage when there is a stall.
    Zo-Zu, The Punisher: Yes, it's double-edged sword, but it may be worth it.

    Those are suggestions, as I didn't do any real Legacy tournament yet and I'm still constructing my deck (I'm missing a real sideboard, Wastelands and Ports), I just want to know how you're feeling about those cards?
    »

  7. #6867
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    With all of the small creatures running around is anyone else playing 4 tar fire 4 gem palm? With chieftain making all of your dudes matter the CA of matron> tar fire and gem palm wreck all of the little black/white/blue dudes floating around right now.
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  8. #6868

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post
    With all of the small creatures running around is anyone else playing 4 tar fire 4 gem palm? With chieftain making all of your dudes matter the CA of matron> tar fire and gem palm wreck all of the little black/white/blue dudes floating around right now.
    I was just doing a bunch of playtesting today with AlbyLegacy and he plays 4 tarfire 4 gempalm. It was working out very well. His list is 1 page back.

  9. #6869

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Hey guys,
    I just wanted to Share my latest RB-List with you.
    Even if my latest local was just an embarrassing 2:2, I am pretty happy with the list and furter testing showed, that it is very well positioned against UWR Nemesis, Deathblade and Death and Taxes.
    I tried to make the Deck compeditve against Combo, too.
    I lost to double-Goyf and hell of removel more than once, but i think rug is still favourable and BUG is...well... winnable.

    4 Lackey
    4 Vial

    4 Piledriver
    3 MWM

    3 Gempalm Incinerator
    2 Tarfire
    1 Warren Weirding
    1 Stingscourger

    3 Warchief
    2 Chieftain

    4 Matron
    4 Ringleader

    1 Krenko
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    1 Earwig Squad

    4 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Scalding Tarn
    3 Mountain
    1 Swamp
    3 Badlands
    3 Cavern of Souls
    3 Wasteland
    2 Rishadan Port

    SB:
    3 Massacre
    2 Shattering Pulse
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    4 Cabal Therapy
    2 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Grafdiggers Cage
    2 Perish

    I won against Sneakshow (Mostly through Port and Wasteland) and Manaless Dredge and lost to Bug Nemesis (Darn it, no Plains!) and UW Nemesis-Control (in 3 very close games)

    What i love most about this list is, that it lest you play the control-roll very well, by also standing a Chance to Beat Combo.
    Changes i thought about were -1 Gempalm + 1 Weirding, because the MD fails to handle fatties like Tarmogoyf quite a Bit, its also better against Nemesis.

    I'd love to have 2 More Earwig Squads in the SB, but havend figured out a place yet.


    Please Share your thoughts to the list.

    Greetz

  10. #6870
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Olaf Forkbeard View Post
    Round 2 - 2/1 - Dredge
    Game 1: I start the game with a slow opener of double Waste, 2 Fetch, Pile, Mogg, Mogg. I slap Waste and pass. He passes and discards Golgari Grave Troll. I quickly lose to my bad opener and his good clock. My mistake. I will mulligan more.
    Boarding: I board in 3 Thalia and 3 Relic, I board out 2 Tarfire, 2 Gempalm, 1 Sharpshooter, 1 Ringleader
    Game 2: I find an opener of Relic, Thalia, Vial, Piledriver, Mogg, Port, Port. Really close to perfect, I keep it. I start the game with the Vial, thinking that since I don't have a White, I need her out and I can always drop the Relic turn two and pop it if need be. Simply Put I manage to get both out and he kind of dies. I popped the relic somewhere in there, but it bought enough time.
    Game 3: I find Lackey, Thalia, Ringleader, Ringleader, Mountain after 2 mulligans. I keep it, and of course Draw a fetch. I'm apparently rather lucky. It seals the deal at this point and I hit him to death.. again.


    Cards that didn't matter today:
    Sharpshooter. Nothing relevant to shoot.
    I wouldn't board out removal against Dredge. It is a tricky deck to play against, because it's so different from other decks, and it's easy to just think about it as a graveyard based deck. However, killing your own guys to exile bridges is often a very good play, and sharpshooter is great in the matchup since he stops their Ichorids, and gives you an edge when your goblins are fighting zombies. What are your thoughts on the matchup? I'd be happy to hear your thoughts on it, and from others as well. Cheers.

  11. #6871
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Hello,

    Long time reader, first time poster.
    My new year resolution was to go out and play more organized play so I headed to a local legacy event (10 people) with my goblin deck. Note that this was more or less my first time playing with it so my mistakes probably bias the results.

    Code:
    Decklist:
    
    Main board
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Aether vial
    3 Goblin piledriver
    3 Goblin warchief
    4 Goblin chieftain
    1 Tarfire
    4 Goblin matron
    4 Goblin ringleader
    4 Warren instigator
    1 Krenko, mob boss
    1 Tuktuk scrapper
    2 Gempalm incinerator
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Warren weirding
    
    4 Wasteland
    3 Badlands
    3 Mountain
    3 Bloodstained mire
    1 Wooded foothill
    1 Arid mesa
    1 Scalding tarn
    3 Chrome mox
    4 Cavern of souls
    
    Sideboard
    2 Earwig squad
    4 Cabal therapy
    1 Chrome mox
    4 Chalice of the void
    1 Goblin sharpshooter
    3 Relic of progenitus
    I ended up 1-3. Probably not so surprising since it was my first time with the deck (outside of goldfishing and one game on cockatrice) and in that meta. I could have been a bit more prepared but I didn't want to miss the first event of the year and rather start with a good record on my new year resolution :)

    Round 1 - Bant - 1-2

    Before the local event, I practiced playing against a buddy and my first pairing was against him. So I had already boarded in EWS. I quickly get a Piledriver and EWS out. He ends up throwing his Knight of the Reliquary (5/5 thanks to some Wasting on my side) in the way of my attackers but next turn I go lackey -> matron -> warchief and he scoops due to lack of board presence.
    Second game, I end up scooping to a live Batterskull and Jitte.
    Third game, the first four turns are spent in a Wasteland duel. He gets a SFM -> Batterskull but Tarfire prevents him from cheating BS in. I get a lonely Warchief in play and attack for a few turns. I use CT looking for Jitte (he is still far from having enough mana to hardcast BS and doesn't have white mana to get out another SFM -- was that a bad play?), i don't find it but I find TNN, so I sac' warchief to flashback CT and name TNN. When time is called, I have 4 lands in play and 4 more in hand, he drops TNN and Knight of the Reliquary for the win.

    Round 2 - Pox - 2-0

    Game 1, he's on the draw. I go lackey. He goes Mishra's factory. T2, lackey -> matron -> warchief. T3, I waste his factory, and go WI-> Ringleader -> Krenko, lackey -> Piledriver. He scoops.
    Game 2, I keep a hand with Cavern, Lackey, WI, Krenko, 2 fetch and a vial.
    T1 I run Mox (lackey exiled) -> WI.
    T2 he runs an Innocent blood.
    T2 I get a Chieftain out.
    T3 I get a Krenko out, get two 2/2 and swing with them. He chomps one with Mishra and has basically nothing left. He doesn't get back from Krenko and scoops shortly after.

    Round 3 - Nicfit+Pod 0-2

    G1, I am on the draw. He gets a DRS T1, SFM -> BS T2. End of my turn 3 he drops BS on the table and I end up losing to it.
    G2, he runs pretty much the same gig and I lose to BS.
    At this point, I feel like a second TukTuk scrapper would be welcome and that also I should probably do matron -> tuktuk scrapper as early as possible to be on the safe side instead of doing matron -> "answer to the current board state".

    Round 4 - Pox+discard - 0-2

    G1, I mull to 5.
    T1 lackey. T2 he poxes. T3 pox again, T4 pox + hymn to tourach so my board presence and hand are quite empty. After a while he gets his Engineering plague out (his only one MB), followed by Shrieking affliction, oppression x2 and night of soul's betrayal, while I pain to hit a Chieftain which would allow my Goblins to stick. I lose this one after a few turns spent passing.
    G2, I sideboard in CT and EWS, + Chrome mox and ditch all the creature removal.
    I am on the go and play lackey. He plays Dark Ritual -> Engineered plague T1. T2 hymn to tourach steals my chieftain. T3, Liliana and her +1 each turn (+ other discard) prevent me from ever playing what I draw while The Rack picks at my life.

    --------

    I played more games with most of my opponents after the official ones were done, when time allowed so I got a bit more practice.
    My immediate feeling after the games were that white splash with Wear//Tear would have been a good answer to the BS, Jitte, and the full range of enchantments from my second Pox MU. But considering that I sideboarded in 4CT and 2 EWS and rarely hit them, it feels like switching to white would mean getting only 2/3 Wear//Tear to sideboard in. It seems I would be even less likely to find the right answers if I pack 2/3 copies (Wear//Tear) instead of 6 (4CT + 2 EWS). So I will stick to black.

    Relic of Progenitus and Stingscourger were useless in my match-ups. Some of the other decks in the evening were another Goblin player (not with the WI build, instead with the Port one), and elves - I don't know about the other decks.

    I am thinking of ditching the Relics to add one more Tuktuk in sb (or maybe even ditch Stingscourger and MB 2x Tuktuk?). Gempalm was not so impressive, I would rather have had Tarfire. I already ran 4 Chieftains but would have loved some more against Engineering plagues so I am thinking of bringing Boartusk liege in the SB. Then against the other black enchantments I met, it seems that CT and EWS will have to do or...?
    The Chalices also felt a bit useless, but I feel it might be because I wouldn't know what to set them on (I didn't meet/see any combo deck though and I feel that's where they would be most useful? or any advice on how I could have used them in my MU of that evening?).

    One thought I had about the Engineered plagues is: Purphoros. Maybe it's a silly idea to drop Goblin after Goblin if they don't stick to the board, but when facing heavy discard or double plagues (like in my last Pox MU), turning a card that will end up in the bin next turn into a tarfire instead seems appealing to me (even if I admit it seems a bit basic). Thoughts?

    Comments and constructive criticism are welcome.

  12. #6872
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Raznaak
    Just seeking cards that may be interesting, what do you think?

    Goblin Diplomats: removing blockers, yes you may take damage, but if your opponent dies, who cares?
    Taurean Mauler: While he is not in the main strategy of the goblins, he may become big really fast, and becomes a great threat, while he may be fetched and counts as a goblin.
    Goblin Grappler: Removing the big blocker from the path of your Piledriver.
    Mogg Maniac: Against big creatures or in combination with the Gempalm Incinerator to do big damage when there is a stall.
    Zo-Zu, The Punisher: Yes, it's double-edged sword, but it may be worth it.

    Those are suggestions, as I didn't do any real Legacy tournament yet and I'm still constructing my deck (I'm missing a real sideboard, Wastelands and Ports), I just want to know how you're feeling about those cards?
    »
    Since you are new to legacy, i think that when you actually start playing, you will understand why these cards don't see play. Anyway here's my opinions :

    Goblin Diplomats/Goblin Grappler : Any removal spell is better than them. Legacy is a fast format and is becoming more and more faster, so killing opponent's creatures is better than running a diplomats that can't do anything until turn 4 just to break a board stall that probably will never happen.

    Taurean Mauler: also the mauler is quite slow, plus as you realized he doesn't belong in goblins strategy. We want to swarm the board and overwhelm the opponent, our big beater is piledriver and i would probbaly play Goblin Goon before taurean mauler.

    Mogg Maniac/Zo-zu the punisher : those two guys would make sense if our aim was to deal a lot of damage immediately. The opponent would be then forced to hold his lands in hand or don't attack into mogg maniac. But since our deck is not particularly faster and often takes the control role, opponents would have no trouble swinging their goyfs into mogg maniac.... and we already have mogg war marshals that provides 3 bodies to block.

  13. #6873
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord
    Several points work together here.
    First of all, Vial does exactly three things for us:
    (1) "produce mana"
    (2) avoid countermagic

    I think in this MU none of these factors plays a major role in winning you the game. They won't be heavily aiming at your mana and they won't counter any creature you have.
    Now this first point on it's own doesn't really say that you should board out Vial. In fact you would not board out Vial against Maverick, would you?

    However, the deck you presented runs discard spells, and that's were Vial loses all it's attraction for me. in fact your opponent might bring you into a situation where you have an active Aether Vial, but no creatures to bring in. Discard magic also allows your opponent to look at your hand, thereby giving him perfect information about when you will likely use Aether Vial. According to that he can better make decision about the timing of Abrupt Decay (@ Vial) and your hand loses much of it's surprise factor, which is something you can usually take advantage of with Aether Vial. For our lists the issue is even worse. Discard magic not only steals bodies to bring in with Aether Vial, but it also makes Chrome Mox worse. Both Chrome Mox and Vial do by themselves create card-disadvantage: you invest a card to get nothing in return that immediately improves your board position. i.e. playing Vial is effectively reducing your handsize by 1 until the moment when you can captialize on that investment by putting a creature into play that you otherwise would not have been able to play. So, in summary: your opponents discard magic, your Chrome Moxen AND Aether Vial result in carddisadvantage. WHiel you can't really do much about the first and the second, you do have the opportunity to board out Vial for something else.

    Why is Piledriver better than Aether Vial in this MU? I think what's important in this MU is to put your opponent under pressure as early as possible. They better not get Bob online, or attack you with an equipped creature. Piledriver helps you to force your opponent into situations where he has to give up valuable creatures to block Piledriver. Second, Piledriver is a natural */2 creature and you need as much of these as possible when you have nauseas in mind. With 7 hastelords in your deck Piledriver is even more of a threat. Even if you opponent manages to wipe the board for once you can quickly recover - with only a hastelord and a piledriver your a back in business.
    Thanks for the clear reply.
    It reveals just how much I have yet to learn about the deck and evaluating the role we need to play in specific matchups.


    Quote Originally Posted by FTW
    When I looked at your MUs, I noticed 0 combo of any form (storm, belcher, dredge, reanimator, omnitell, sneakshow, allspells, ...) except Elves. Goblins is notoriously bad at combo matches. Mana Denial is generally gobbo's #1 plan (alongside SB hate) to slowdown combo enough for our little green men to finish them. IMO this is where Waste/Port shine the most. So I wonder if your sample size is biased, i.e. if you didn't miss Waste and Port because you didn't face any real combo. Have you tested your list against combo otherwise? How does it fare?
    Very fair, pointed questions.
    I'll add more or less the opposite question: Can we expect it to crush everything besides combo?
    If the answer is yes, then at the least it deserves attention as a build that can be pulled off the shelf for specific metas.

    Quote Originally Posted by BaroqueW View Post
    Round 1 - Bant - 1-2

    Before the local event, I practiced playing against a buddy and my first pairing was against him. So I had already boarded in EWS. I quickly get a Piledriver and EWS out. He ends up throwing his Knight of the Reliquary (5/5 thanks to some Wasting on my side) in the way of my attackers but next turn I go lackey -> matron -> warchief and he scoops due to lack of board presence.
    I hope pre-boarding like that was not on purpose; it is completely against the rules.
    It also makes it more difficult for us to comment on the matchup.


    I use CT looking for Jitte (he is still far from having enough mana to hardcast BS and doesn't have white mana to get out another SFM -- was that a bad play?), i don't find it but I find TNN, so I sac' warchief to flashback CT and name TNN
    I think the first CT was fine. Having the information is helpful and pretty much ensures the CT flashback hits something. You might have even declared Batterskull in order to get a guaranteed hit, unless you were absolutely certain the opponent would never get it onto the board. About sacking Warchief for flashback, how much mana did your opponent have at the time and what were the life totals?
    You want to wait until he's got two mana. Even then I'm not sure. You can potentially build up a board position so quickly and swing around or Piledrive through a TNN anyway.


    One thought I had about the Engineered plagues is: Purphoros. Maybe it's a silly idea to drop Goblin after Goblin if they don't stick to the board, but when facing heavy discard or double plagues (like in my last Pox MU), turning a card that will end up in the bin next turn into a tarfire instead seems appealing to me (even if I admit it seems a bit basic). Thoughts?
    I was just reading an article about Purphoros Goblins earlier today. Gets my curiousity up at the least. He's tough to remove and gives you some inevitability even if you never make it into the red zone. 4 mana cost avoids Abrupt Decay, swarm pump's a bonus especially with Instigator, and the 2 damage is untargeted (not that opponents will side in Leyline vs us often).
    What's the absolute minimum of goblin cards we need to run to keep up Ringleader's effectiveness?
    Last edited by Sockosensei; 01-10-2014 at 10:48 PM.
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  14. #6874
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Sockosensei View Post
    I was just reading an article about Purphoros Goblins earlier today. Gets my curiousity up at the least. He's tough to remove and gives you some inevitability even if you never make it into the red zone. 4 mana cost avoids Abrupt Decay, swarm pump's a bonus especially with Instigator, and the 2 damage is untargeted (not that opponents will side in Leyline vs us often).
    That sounds interesting, would you please link the article?

  15. #6875
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Thank you for answering!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sockosensei View Post
    I hope pre-boarding like that was not on purpose; it is completely against the rules.
    It also makes it more difficult for us to comment on the matchup.
    I didn't intend to break any rules here. I must say that my opponent did the same as we had just been playing against each other for an hour so we were on even footing. Thanks for pointing it out, though, I don't want to get into bad habits. I guess the rule to quote is

    Code:
    100.4. Each player may also have a sideboard, which is a group of additional cards the player may use to modify his or her deck between games of a match.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sockosensei View Post
    I think the first CT was fine. Having the information is helpful and pretty much ensures the CT flashback hits something. You might have even declared Batterskull in order to get a guaranteed hit, unless you were absolutely certain the opponent would never get it onto the board. About sacking Warchief for flashback, how much mana did your opponent have at the time and what were the life totals?
    You want to wait until he's got two mana. Even then I'm not sure. You can potentially build up a board position so quickly and swing around or Piledrive through a TNN anyway.
    If my memory serves me right, he was at about 12/14 life total and one land. I, on the other hand, was likely to have fetched a couple of times, so about 17-18 life total.

  16. #6876
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post
    With all of the small creatures running around is anyone else playing 4 tar fire 4 gem palm? With chieftain making all of your dudes matter the CA of matron> tar fire and gem palm wreck all of the little black/white/blue dudes floating around right now.
    O am. It's been working very well

  17. #6877
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandro95 View Post
    That sounds interesting, would you please link the article?
    Couldn't find an article, but found the following list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/purphoros-goblins-1/

    Question: at first, Purphoros is an enchantment which becomes a creature, right?

  18. #6878
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatto View Post
    Question: at first, Purphoros is an enchantment which becomes a creature, right?
    No, it's a creature (and enchantment) card in your library, hand and on the stack (spell). In other words you can Vial him in. When he's in play your devotion to red is checked.

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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoCop 90 View Post
    Since you are new to legacy, i think that when you actually start playing, you will understand why these cards don't see play. Anyway here's my opinions :

    Goblin Diplomats/Goblin Grappler : Any removal spell is better than them. Legacy is a fast format and is becoming more and more faster, so killing opponent's creatures is better than running a diplomats that can't do anything until turn 4 just to break a board stall that probably will never happen.

    Taurean Mauler: also the mauler is quite slow, plus as you realized he doesn't belong in goblins strategy. We want to swarm the board and overwhelm the opponent, our big beater is piledriver and i would probbaly play Goblin Goon before taurean mauler.

    Mogg Maniac/Zo-zu the punisher : those two guys would make sense if our aim was to deal a lot of damage immediately. The opponent would be then forced to hold his lands in hand or don't attack into mogg maniac. But since our deck is not particularly faster and often takes the control role, opponents would have no trouble swinging their goyfs into mogg maniac.... and we already have mogg war marshals that provides 3 bodies to block.
    Thank you for your insight.

  20. #6880
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Avatara View Post
    No, it's a creature (and enchantment) card in your library, hand and on the stack (spell). In other words you can Vial him in. When he's in play your devotion to red is checked.

    Aah nice... Thanks for the clarification

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