ok, so I am posting up videos today on my youtube Ch.
Here is the 1st video. much more to come today. enjoy.
http://youtu.be/PfMXPsOaRsU
Thank you for sharing, I found an article on the subject. I don't know if it's the one that was mentioned earlier though. Here it is. :)
http://www.eternalcentral.com/fighti...nst-the-waves/
The thing I love about this thread and I supposed this deck is that when things look bad...when the pro's drop it, you all are just like "meh" and then adapt. It seems that Winstigator lists with Chrome Moxen are viable, but has anyone tried using 1 or 2 moxes in a non Instigator list? Perhaps as the 23rd land? I like the Instigator lists, but they seem to be weaker against creature decks since they lose MWM's token blockers. I'd like to see if the Chromes can do work in a classic list.
Also, I remember, "punishing Goblins" was a thing for a short time before Thalia became big. Is PF a viable card in Goblins, or is it not good.
I have a few things to say about this one.
(1)
When I was watching the video I had the urge to pause the video and flame you hard for stating that "the traditional lists arn't working anymore" and "goblin are getting fucked up by all kinds of TNN decks". However, then I thought, "okay, it's his oppinion then, let's see what more the guy has to say". In my oppinion you are right about goblins needing a fundamental change. And this is not about "hey lets take a traditional list and just fix it" - I'm talking about taking a step back and see what the metagame has to offer - then adapt to it.
(2)
You are also right to say that manascrew (in forms of Wasteland and Rishadan Port) is not as important as it was and cutting Ports is certainly reasonable then. However, I think you are too much black-and-white on Wastelands here. I mean I get your point that you rather want your lands to produce mana than to destroy other lands, but that's hardly news. That's among the first things you learn when playing the deck: you need your mana and you need it badly. I still think cutting wastelands entirly is wrong, because there are a number of lands you really want to destroy (like Tabernacle, manlands, Glacial Chasm and the like). Plus, running 3-4 Wastelands does not negatively affect your deck's performance in the slightest. Especially in a monored list you have more red manasources available than you need and I don't see any reason why some of your mountains shouldn't be Wastelands instead.
(3)
I find it highly counter-intuitive to play less than 4 Piledrivers when one of your objective is to compete with "TNN-decks". Piledriver is THE single most effective card against these, may it be Esperblade, or Patriot of whatnot.
(4)
I totally agree on running more Chieftains. I'm playing the whole playset.
(5)
Funny that you, at the beginning, are saying that "traditional lists arn't working anymore" but still you are packing the "traditional Sharpshooter-Skirk Prospector combo". Why is that?
(6)
You said there will be more videos coming. I'd really like to hear a word or two about the following issues:
* splash colors
* sideboard cards
* why exactly do you think the deck needs SGC and Krenko (seems more like a relic from the supposedly un-successful traditional lists).
//EDIT:
Really nice of you to share this video. Makes me want to try this out myself. Let's see when and if I have the time to annoy you guys with my German accent and alterd Goblin cards :-D
You should check the the tournament reports section and read the last 4 or so reports of ScatmanX. He's an expert on that I'd say.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
Going to give this new God Gobbo's a spin. Seems legit.
thanks for the feedback. I do like wastelands and I took them out to test this version. I am about 99% sure I will be adding 3-4 back to the deck. sharpshooter and skirk are 2 cards that I am really good with and they win me a lot of games. every one has those cards that they just love and know how to play very well. Krenko is good to flood the board, has won me a lot of games. splashing colors, I have not got to that yet with this deck. I am still testing. like I said sir. its a test run. thanks again. hoping we all can together help build the next generation of goblins!!
Mtg Legacy: Goblins VS True-Name Patriot playtesting. with my goblins list.
Game1
http://youtu.be/l4L40w2FCGo
Game2
http://youtu.be/5zbRfQiFAo8
I will be posting my videos.
Sorry for the late reply, only just got back to a computer.
I have used Siege-Gang Commander before and it has a very powerful effect, but at 5 mana it was just too intense for my tastes. In my practice lists which ran Rakdos Charm I liked him a lot more, but in a more norma list, it was simply too much.
I really like Stingscourger but it simply does not do what I want to be doing with Goblins. I want to drag the game out and be the "Subtle Control" deck. Stingscourger supports very strong tempo plays that I believe I can win without. I replaced it with Tin Street Hooligan because I lose to Jitte, as I'm sure others do as well. Simply having two has been very relevant for me. I see him often and he is rarely dead. As a 2/1 he still supports the "More dudes to hit you with" clause. When I did play Stingscourger I found I was playing him into very thick boards and paying that echo for a block, OR tutoring him for a last resort against certain decks, and making Lackey connect.
I can see the merits for cutting Sharpshooter, but my meta has an elf player. 1/12 to fight elves is a good enough chance for me. My biggest issue with him is that he costs 3. The deck plays a storm of 3 costs, and It is very noticeable game 1 against RUG for TEMPO.
I personally think Mogg War Marshal is the glue that holds the deck together. The deck wants to grind, and grind hard late game and very few card support the role of "Field Fill" more than Mogg War Marshal. When I find room for my 3rd Chieftain they become even more relevant.
About your list: I have found no actual reason to play more than 1 Krenko. Siege-Gang Commander was different as he could double as very strong burn and was primarily in the deck produce a truly threatening Lackey.. Which is less useful than it was. He is my second favorite Matron Target next to Gempalm Incinerator, as well as being my actual favorite Goblin in the game. I don't necessarily understand the Skirk Prospector in your list as well. One of the values of Prospector is to make Sharpshooter good, another is to ramp via Mogg War Marshal amongst his other techy effects that can usually be replaced by a Tarfire.
As for the Dredge Matchup and what I boarded out, I probably should have left in some more removal, and I remember thinking to myself as I boarded: "Naw, I'll just draw my War Marshal's and not pay their echo cost." Bad logic in hindsight. That's super slow.
People are finding ways to win with Goblins in Japan by taking a variety of different approaches.
Here are several of the lists that have done well in the TNN meta.
Purphoros Lists
That is the article indeed.
More examples of lists with Purphoros in Japan:
5-1 (3rd place)
3-0
With all of the talk about speeding our deck up, whether via Chrome Mox or Mogg Rituals, I was interested to see Ancient Tomb being played. It's a route I'm very interested in, but at what cost to the mana base, and does it corner us into a particular role by replacing Ports.
----------------------------------------------------------
Non-Purphoros Lists
These are both lists which made top-8 at a 256-player side event at GP Kyoto in late November. Japan doesn't have an SCG circuit so this is about as large as legacy tournaments here get in my experience.
(1) Kiki-Jiki+Instigator -- Very top-heavy. Includes a 3/3/1 Tarfire/Gempalm/Pyrokinesis split in the main. MVP=Kiki-Jiki
(2) Semi-classic -- MVP=Skirk Prospector
MVP is according to the pilots' own words from a separate coverage page.
Lands
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
12 Mountain
// Creatures
4 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
1 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Tinkerer
4 Goblin Warchief
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
3 Mogg War Marshal
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Stingscourger
// Spells
4 Chrome Mox
2 Tarfire
4 Æther Vial
Working on this list.
Any thoughts?
So to sum it up.
We have couple question we need to answer.
How many -Goblin Piledrivers?
I agree on GoboLord that cutting piledrivers is somehow counter-intuitive. In today’s meta filled with true-name nemesis and combo it is very tempting to still play this guy in the main deck. I may agree to play 3 of those green bustards just to find some room for extra removal/artifact hate.
How many Mogg War Marshals?
This case is harder to solve. On the one hand – he synergize with the large part of the deck making Gempalm Incinerator, Pildriver, Skirk Prospector, Krenko, Siege Gang Commander better. On the other hand there is indeed a strong demand on higher number of removal and MWM tend to be worse in the decreasing number of Tarmogoyf’s decks. Maybe some sort of compromise will be good – 2 is the magic naumber?
Do we need the infamous Skirk Prospector & Sharpshooter duo?
I think that heavy TNN meta denies playing those guys. Still – we need to remember about Elves, Dradge and Prospector’s ability to avoid danger of Umezawa’s Jitte and Batterskull. I think that Sharpshooter deserves it’s place in the sideboard and Prospector should be replaced with removal or artifact hate.
Do we need Tarfire?
As far as I’m consider there is a strong believe that Tarfire is a must (Delver, Shaman, Stoneforge). What’s the right number? I think it’s somewhere between 2 or 3.
How many Gempalm Incinerators?
Again – the TNN meta force us to play faster and more effective removal due x/2 creatures. Still GI tend to improve its effectiveness along with our board state. In my opinion 3 is the magic number.
More haste and brute force sir?
Yes, I’m looking at you Goblin Chieftain. TNN meta caused the appearance of –X/-X effects in the sideboards and even in the main boards. It is worth to consider adding those guys also just to sped the clock.
Krenko, Mob Boss? Siege-Gang Commander?
Krenko is good. With more haste lords – he is even better. Overwhelm the battlefield is something that goblin should always do. SGC has immediately impact and some burn potential but at 5CMC he is much slower. I have no idea how solve this problem. 1-1 split? Drop SCG in favor of Goblin Chieftain?
Shatter the artifacts?
Stoneforge decks need to be answer. Period. I think we need to dedicate 2 cards in the mainboard to solve the everlasting problem of Umezawa's Jitte. Depending on the splash – Tin Street Hooligan or his slower brother - Tuktuk Scraper are nice to always have.
What about the lands?
I’m huge fan of both Wastelands and Rishadan Ports in full playset. It won me countless games against combo decks. However – adding more lords and Tarfires can be problematic for our mana base that would be red-hungry. We also need to consider the number of Cavern of Souls (which I think still deserves 4 in the main board – even with some number of tarfires).
Speeding up the deck?
Sol lands (Ancient Tomb) and Chrome Moxes belongs here. I’m not sure if both deserves it’s place in main board. More lords makes Sol Lands worse. Chrome Mox in big numbers causing card disadvantage and are terrible topdecks later in the game.
Unorthodox solutions?
Purphoros, God of the Forge? I don’t think so – not a goblin, no immediate impact on the board state, terrible topdeck. But hey - it deserves more tests.
Splash?
White, Green and Black (with no particular order). All three offers nice things. Both green and white seems to be better in today’s meta offering the best artifact removal (Wear//Tear, Tin Street Hooligan, Krosan Grip, Ancient Grudge).
well I really cant answer a lot of these, because I want to give it some good playtesting, I will make videos on my ch and share (youtube.com/albylegacy). I got this idea after seeing a few goblins list from Japan that are winning. I also would like to add 2x karakas.
http://www.happymtg.com/decks/view/D056374
check out the crazy stuff they are doing in japan with goblins
MTG Legacy: Goblins VS Mono Red Burn
http://youtu.be/LY5r6tvegps
youtube.com/albylegacy
Nice play on all of those games. It was cool to see chieftain being one of the key cards especially in ur last game vs burn. Good play taking down DnT too since I have found that to be a rough MU. Have you missed MD or SB shatter goblins at all? That seems to be a big missing part, but you've won without them.
Hello, everybody, time for another quick report! Yesterday I attended Legacy Championship at GP Prague, 84 players! Went 3W - 4L though, so not a big success. But considering my incomplete list it's not that bad. It was 7 rounds with NO top 8, after 6 rounds I had 3-3, last game I didn't pay attention too much as I allready couldn't reach the prizes.
The list I played (please don't judge me for playing 1 Wasteland, I'm poor as fuck college student and I can't afford more at the moment, but saving for them! :-))
Main
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Cavern of Souls
2x Plateau
1x Wasteland
2x Tarfire
3x Gempalm
3x Chieftain
4x Lackey
4x Matron
3x Piledriver
4x Ringleader
3x Warchief
2x Krenko
3x MWM
1x Stingscourger
1x Tuktuk
SB:
4x CoTV
2x RiP
2x Relic of Progenitus
3x Pyrokinesis
3x Wear//Tear
1x Sharpshooter
Round 1 - german guy with RUG Delver, WIN 2:0 (total 1-0)
Game 1 - I am on play, I lead with Cavern -> Lackey. He drops fetch, Delver and passes. I clean my way with Gempalm, draw warchief. Lackey connects into warchief, I drop double Piledriver and pass. He then drops land, kills one driver. Next turn Lackey connects second time, dropping Krenko + driver deals damage. He scoops.
Game 2 - on draw, I keep rather slow hand (3 lands, CoTV, MWM and some 3-drops). I open with fetch and pass, he opens with Delver again. Next turn I drop another land, fetch for Plateau and play MWM. It resolves (I played around Daze with my CoTV, knowing it is a key card in this matchup). He then blind flips Delver, plays Ponder and passes. Third turn I drop CoTV @ 1 and that's basically end for him. We play several more turns until I win. After the game he showed me 5 1-drops in his hand.
Round 2 - very good czech player who organizes local tourneys with Sneak Show, Lose 1:2 (total 1-1)
Game 1 - on play, I start to put some pressure getting him to 9 life. Then he plays Sneak attack, do some weird double Griselbrand shit and wins obviously. I hate this draw 7 cards so much...
Game 2 - I'm faster, killed him on turn 4. This game was interesting because he misplayed and sided in Graffdigerss Cage thinking it would stop my Matron. Therefore he kept a slow hand with Cage which enabled me to win.
Game 3 - I'm on play, keeping an excellent! very fast game with Wear//Tear. I made an excellent board position and was able to kill him turn 3. He played pyroclasm turn two. Ok, another swarm of goblins. He plays second pyroclasm, no problem, I made more and more goblins. Third pyroclasm (wtf...) sealed the deal and I lost to Sneak attack into Griselbrand + Emrakul.
Round 3 - Czech guy with BUG, Win 2:1, (total 2-1)
Game 1 - on play, mulligan to strong 6. Lackey connects thank to Tarfire -> his DRS, dropping Chieftain and casting Piledriver. Then we play removals for next couple of turns, until I drop Krenko with hastelord on board and swarm him with goblins. Note - He discarded two Matrons for me with his Hymn and 1 ringleader with Thoughtseize.
Game 2 - on draw, he mulls to 6. Obviously strong 6, got my board swiped by Toxic Deluge and Pernicious Deed two times. In the end, I can't stand the pressure of 3 goyfs as I haven't seen any grave hate I brought in the whole game. I only saw 1 RIP, but I saw it in Ringleader, so yeah, bad luck.
Game 2 - on play, very similar to game 1. Lackey connects into Krenko, drop MWM. Next turn I play Chieftain, he Forces. Turn after that I play another one + Relic -> swarm of goblins, he scoops.
Round 4 - german guy with BUG, lose 0:2, (total 2-2)
Game 1 - he was really good at controlling my board, I only got him to 17 life until I lost to JTMS's ultimate. Seriously didn't expect this.
Game 2 - I am able to make some pressure, getting him to 7 life. Then he gets back into the game, dropping JTMS and fate sealing me again for couple of turns. I lose to JTMS ultimate for the second time while everybody watching the game is having a really good time :-D
Round 5 - german guy with UWR Stoneblade, win 2:0 (total 3-2)
Game 1 - lackey connects thanks to removal, then he drops Sword of Fire and ice AND Batterskull. Thanks to Tuktuk and Wear//Tear I am able to get rid both of them and win with Krenko + Chieftain.
Game 2 - As in the first game I destroy two of his equipments (this time Jitte and SoFI), while removing his Delvers. I also dropped CoTV @1 and won thanks to that.
Round 6 - german guy with UWR Stoneblade again, this was important round for me as I was still able to reach prizes if I won this and the game after that. Well I lost 1:2 going to 3-3 total
Game 1 - on play, keep a hand with 3 Caverns. They all get wastelanded and I struggle with mana for a few turns, getting him to 4 life. Then he controlled the board and killed me because of my GIGANTIC misplay. I had Ringleader and Tuktuk in hand, while he had Delver and Batterskull (without token) on board. I decided to play Ringleader, to get more cards. He had 5 lands, 4 life. I had some lands and 6 life. I was stupid enough to not realise he can equip his BS to Delver. My Ringleader brought me many good cards to win the game, but I should've Tuktuk the BS. Well I didn't, he equipped and ended my miserable life.
Game 2 - on play, mull to 6, CotV @1 round 3, destroyed his BS and win. He didn't take me any life, I was ahead the whole game.
Game 3 - on draw, mull to 6 again. I wasteland (with my only one, yeah) his Volcanic and try to make some board position. In the end I lose to Delver which he is able to protect by countering/Stifling my Matrons. Tournament (prizes) ends here for me.
Round 7 - czech guy with Miracles. This was a fun game, didn't pay much attention because we both allready had nothing to win. I didn't keep notes, so quick only. So many mulligans on my side in this one. Lose 1:2, total 3-4
Game 1 - on draw, mulligan to 5. Even though I win.
Game 2 - on play mulligan to fucking 4! I destroy his Moat, which surprises him. But he still won with Helm + RIP combo.
Game 3 - on play, mull to 6. This was a long game, I got him to 3 life then I lost to his combo.
So I won nothing, but had a lot of fun and gained some experience. My findings from this tournament.
1) I moved sharpshooter to SB to increase the number of hastelords to 6. Never ever brought him in.
2) Stingscourger was as useless in this tourney as Sharpshooter. Sided out many games, never used in the others. Will think about removing him completely again.
3) It's not nice to lose twice to JTMS's ultimate in one round. Whole Germany had fun of me :-D
4) If my list wasn't crippled by not having a playset of Wastelands, I could've won more games. I just missed them, also Ports. It's important part of goblins, even though people seem to doubt it nowadays.
5) There was never a time I would've wanted SGC instead of Krenko. Once again I've been assured that Krenko is the Boss. Even though dropping Krenko on turn 2 seems worse than dropping SGC instead, it isn't if you're able to drop a hastelord the next turn.
Well I hope you enjoyed my report and if you have any questions about my games, feel free to asks. Or if you have some ideas what I should've done instead of something else, go on. The report ain't the best, I was more focusing on play instead of keeping notes. This is the best it can get from me :-) Also sorry for grammatical errors, there must be many of them. I wrote this in a rush because the café I've been writing it in is was closing very soon. Will read it at home again and try to correct some of them.
Purphoros, God of the Forge looks nuts with MWM and Krenko
Got tired of Legacy and you like drafts? Try my Paupercube What?
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