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Thread: [Deck] Goblins

  1. #7421
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by BoiledDenim View Post
    @Olaf : I agree that Rishadan Port is a fantastic card. I played it back in the day of Trinity Green in T2 (Urzas/Masques) and it was fantastic. I am only questioning how good Rishadan Port is in the current Legacy Meta. There are so many decks designed to work on only 1 or 2 mana that we can leave up 2 land, port them on upkeep, and they still just play a land and its business as usual. Goblins seems very mana hungry to me. Maybe I am wrong, but it seems to me that whenever I have Port plus land up I can also just play a Piledriver or Tin Street Hooligan and set up to get in there on the next turn with a warchief. Or even a T1 lackey into T2 cycle Gempalm killing a delver or threatening to kill whatever is also common for me. I am not disagreeing tht R. Port is awesome. I'm just not sure how much better it is currently than other temp options. Being able to more consistenly play Thalia (or protect Thalia with bounce) in combination with bouncing all the problematic Legends in legacy seems good to me. I am going to test it and see whats what. It's even tech agains V. Clique when you are in topdeck mode and attacking with a goblin matron or whatever. It just seems Show & Tell is our worst matchup. I've had a lot of Rishadan Ports in play, mostly cause Wasteland does so much work, that I wonder if something else might be better.
    Believe it or not my arguments for most powerful cards were based on my personal play testing in the current meta. It is just value options. They don't hurt you when you are behind and push you further when you are ahead. I think we may disagree in play style at this point. I will admit, I am pretty aggressive with my Rishadan Ports.

    That spiel aside I feel like the match-up against Show and Tell is fine personally. This is the kind of combo deck we can actually do something about. Our sideboard cards actually work: 2-3 Confusion in the Ranks or Ashen Rider with a Show and Tell forces them to either not have the threat or try to win via Sneak and Show which is that much harder through Wasteland, Rishadan Port, and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben / Chalice of the Void. You can go ahead and run Karakas, but I wouldn't be cutting more than 1 Rishadan Port for it in your case. Personally I wouldn't cut any, and just run the Karakas' over a Mountain.
    Last edited by Olaf Forkbeard; 06-03-2014 at 07:29 PM.

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  2. #7422

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Olaf, In a big tourney I would agree with the Karakas over a mountain. Seems the way to go. My local meta, however, favors playing basic lands. (Nic Fit, and Wastelands abound). So maybe I am basing too much on my local meta. You could almost certainly be right.

  3. #7423

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    I have a stupid question. If I have a Warchief out, can I still use the Tin Street Hooligan to pop an artifact or is it just a 2/1 for R at that point?

  4. #7424
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by BoiledDenim View Post
    I have a stupid question. If I have a Warchief out, can I still use the Tin Street Hooligan to pop an artifact or is it just a 2/1 for R at that point?
    Alas, no you can't destroy an artifact: Warchief reduces the castingcost, so you don't get to pay the demanded green mana.

  5. #7425
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Hello, everyone! What's up? Anyways, I played in a tournament yesterday and thought I'd post about it here.

    R1 Maverick 2-1

    The games were pretty grindy. My opponent went first and I played a bunch of Goblins just staring att his Scavenging Ooze. The game ended when I gott double Chieftain + Piledriver into play on the same turn. forcing my opponent to either lose his entire board except for two lands, a SofaI and a Noble Hiearch, or do the same but with a Scavenging Ooze also left, but at one life. My opponent scooped since either way I would just run him over next turn.

    R2 BWg Deadguyish 2-1
    G1 He abrupt decays my Vial, but I port him and double wasteland, screwing up his mana. I then draw a second Aether Vial and play it, and from there on I'm pretty favored. I didn't see too much game one except for what his colors were, so I boarded in 2 Pyrokinesis, 2 Relic of Progenitus and a Tuktuk Scrapper. I figured he was almost certainly playing SFM, and if he had goyf I wanted an answer to it, and Relic at least cantrips. G2 it became apparent that he didn't have goyf in his deck so I took out the relics and added an Enginneered Plague for Mom and Bob, and I think two Thoughtseizes came in too. He played a Bob and I cast Warren Weirding. He played a second one and I topdecked Lackey, and gempalmed hiis Bob. Then he played a SFM, searching up Jitte. I played an Engineered Plague naming Artificier, and attacked with lackey. He chumped. After a while I ran him over with Goblins.

    R3 Grixis Painter 2-0
    I know that he's on painter. He leads with Underground Sea>Top. I wasteland him. He draws, sighs and flips top, then play a Scalding Tarn. After a while I run him over with goblins. G2 he gets an Ensnaring Bridge into play. I play some goblins. He has Welder(tapped) and Grindstone, with a Painters Servant in his graveyard. I kill his Welder and wasteland his Academy Ruins. He draws a Painter, plays it and activates Grindstone, but I pyrokinesis in response.

    R4 Merfolk (With Tidal Courier and Dakra Mystic) 1-1
    G1 I am run over.
    G2 I don't remember much about, but I won. ;)
    G3 Is a grindfest. He leads with Vial. I play Thoughtseize and see TNN, lord, 2 Dismember and lands. I take the TNN. T2 He plays his lord and passes. I draw a second Thoughtseize, cast it after playing a land, and take his freshlyy drawn TNN #2. Then I Tarfire his lord, and the grind begins.

    3-0-1 in total, felt pretty good about the deck. Had some really tight games throughout the day. I forgot to tick up a Vial at one point but other than that I think I played pretty good. I'll look forward to playtest Grenzo soon too! Until next time.

  6. #7426

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    There's been some buzz about what's going to be printed in M15. I'm wondering what we'd like to see printed. I'm not thinking about unreasonable broken cards, but rather what would we like to see for our deck that could, perhaps, one day happen?

  7. #7427
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by henweigh View Post
    There's been some buzz about what's going to be printed in M15. I'm wondering what we'd like to see printed. I'm not thinking about unreasonable broken cards, but rather what would we like to see for our deck that could, perhaps, one day happen?
    Manic Vandal as a goblin. Preferably with some upside, but even vanilla would be fine.

  8. #7428

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by woodjt5 View Post
    Manic Vandal as a goblin. Preferably with some upside, but even vanilla would be fine.
    That's a nice idea. When you say some upside, what are you thinking? Do you mean some upside beyond destroying an artifact? If so, what kind of upside?

  9. #7429
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by henweigh View Post
    That's a nice idea. When you say some upside, what are you thinking? Do you mean some upside beyond destroying an artifact? If so, what kind of upside?
    If you break down the format you have a bunch of "fair" decks running some combinations of Goyf/Delver/DRS/SFM + Jitte/BS, then you have Miracles, ANT, Elves and SnT. Our biggest problem comes from the fact that we cannot grind out the fair decks while also disrupting/racing combo decks. A card with a narrow application, like a Manic Vandal goblin (which is only really meant to beat SFM), just isn't any good against the combo decks or the other "fair" decks not running SFM. So a Manic Vandal goblin, while good, isn't good enough to really see play in legacy because its still shitty against any non-SFM deck. HERE'S WHERE THE UPSIDE COMES IN: You need a goblin that is great in a specific scenario but still good against the field in general. I've written this many times, but I feel it's worth repeating: a Qasali Prodemage goblin would be ideal. I would actually want it to cost 2, have battle cry, and be a shock on a stick.

    Ideal Goblin R1
    Haste. Battle cry (when Ideal Goblin attacks all attacking creatures get +1/+0).
    Sacrifice Ideal Goblin: Destroy target artifact
    1/2

    AAAAAnd here's why a card like this would be tits...
    R1 casting cost would allow you to still play Waste/Port and cast him T2 consistently.
    Battle cry + haste allows him to pump a T1 Lackey so it can trade with DRS/SFM/Insectile Aberrition, giving you more game against the "fair" decks.
    Battle cry + haste also puts a faster clock on combo decks.
    Sacrifice effect beats SFM and is also a real worry against SDT and random artifacts (Painters Servant, et al).
    And 1/2 body survives -1/-1 effects.

    If they printed this card I could guarantee Goblins becoming Tier 1 again. I'm not holding my breath though.

  10. #7430
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    IAAAAAnd here's why a card like this would be tits...
    R1 casting cost would allow you to still play Waste/Port and cast him T2 consistently.
    Battle cry + haste allows him to pump a T1 Lackey so it can trade with DRS/SFM/Insectile Aberrition, giving you more game against the "fair" decks.
    Battle cry + haste also puts a faster clock on combo decks.
    [...]
    And 1/2 body survives -1/-1 effects.
    Sounds like you want to play Chrome Mox + Goblin Chieftain, which provides all the things you mentioned for our deck already (except for the shatter-thing, but thats simply not realistic.)


    I would like that people recognize Goblins as a good deckchoice right now. There is no new card needed. Just a playset of Tarfire, a playset of Goblin Chieftain and 3 Chrome Moxen to get things going more quickly. It's not even relevant if you are playing with MWMs, Winstigators or whatever (I would pair Thalia with Tarfire and Chrome Mox though) as long as you stick to those 8 cards that help you push your guys through x/2 bodies aka. the meta-game creatures.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  11. #7431

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord View Post
    Sounds like you want to play Chrome Mox + Goblin Chieftain, which provides all the things you mentioned for our deck already (except for the shatter-thing, but thats simply not realistic.)


    I would like that people recognize Goblins as a good deckchoice right now. There is no new card needed. Just a playset of Tarfire, a playset of Goblin Chieftain and 3 Chrome Moxen to get things going more quickly. It's not even relevant if you are playing with MWMs, Winstigators or whatever (I would pair Thalia with Tarfire and Chrome Mox though) as long as you stick to those 8 cards that help you push your guys through x/2 bodies aka. the meta-game creatures.
    Don't mistake me, I think Goblins is a viable and great deck right now. But, as we think about how we'd want to improve it around the edges, I was just throwing open the opportunity for colloquy around what we might hope for to make the deck more robust, more interesting, more resilient, more resourceful, more adaptive, etc. We've all played a variety of incarnations of the deck and we may have some places we wanted to take it where it has just not yet gone.

  12. #7432
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Hello fellow Chieftains,

    today I played a small tournament: 4 rounds, 11 players. And funny enough the most-played deck was Goblins! There were 3 Goblin players, including me, and all of them were rocking a WInstigator list! I'm really glad to see this version being played - but first thing first. The decklist:


    MANA (22)
    4 Caverns
    2 Hovel
    4 Fetch
    3 Chrome Mox
    3 Mountain
    3 Wasteland
    2 Badlands
    1 Taiga

    4-OFFs (32)
    Tarfire
    Vial
    Lackey
    Winstigator
    Piledriver
    Chieftain
    Matron
    Ringleader

    OTHERS (6)
    2 Warchief
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    1 Tin Street Hooligan
    1 Weirding
    1 Stinger

    Sideboard
    4 Chalice
    4 Earwig Squad
    3 Perish
    2 Cabal Therapy
    2 Dismember

    Matchups:
    R1: Jund 1-2
    R2: UWr Miracles 2-0
    R3: MIRROR MATCH 1-2
    R4: GW Token Stoneforge-Deadguy something. 0-2

    Some words on the mirror match.
    My opponent started in the first game, leading with Lackey, which got Tarfired on my turn 1. My opponent played a Vial and a Wasteland which he used to destroy my only land. Thing went pretty slow from that point on. At one point his VIal is at 4 Counters and he has plenty of lands, but nearly no creatures on board. I have Warchief, 3 Piledrivers, a Goblin Lackey and 0 cards in hand when I attack him for 12 damage. 2 of my Piledrivers don't survive the combat step. a few turns later my opponent is at 8 life, has a Chieftain in play, a Vial @ 4 and still very many lands. I have 4 manasources and a Goblin Warchief as well as a 5th land in my hand. He is better at finding RIngleaders and that's that.
    G2 he can't handle my Turn-1 Lackey.
    G3 I can't handle his Lackey, which ultimately connects into kiki-Jiki on turn 2, and teams up with a Piledriver. The game ends on turn 3 with the following boardposition (the red dice @2 indicates two copies of Goblin Piledriver)


    Conclusions:
    * I tested a G splash for TSH in the slot of one Tuktuk Scrapper. I'm not sold yet, because it did not matter in those 4 rounds. however...
    * ...manascrew was an issue in rounds 1 and 4. I'm leaning towards using more fetchlands and basiclands and running as few non-basics as possible. One of the other GOblin players was running a monoR version and confirmed that he never had any issues with being short on mana. This means that I won't running the extra dual-land for TSH in this version, but rather I stick to a more constistant manabase.
    * Last time I indicated that I wanted to cut Warren Weirding, 2 games today made me change my mind.
    * In a game of mirrormatches, you handle Lackey or you die. Seriously, don't keep hands that can't handle your opponent's T1 Lackey. Don't be the fool that I am.
    * the other Winstigator lists both went 3-1 finishing 3rd and 4th. I am confident that this approach to the deck is the way to go right now.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  13. #7433

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    On the topic of Karakas: I have been running the following mana base for my goblins list:

    4 wasteland
    4 Rishadan Port
    4 Cavern of Souls
    6 Red Fetches (I would recommend using Wooded Foothills, as it is the most ambiguous to play on turn 1, game one if you haven't a turn one play)
    2 Badland
    1 Plateau
    1 Karakas
    2 Mountain

    And if you aren't running 24 lands in the post-Conspiracy era, you are doing it wrong. Point-blank. This deck is super mana-intensive, Rishadan Port IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY TO WIN OPENS, and Grenzo may make it a viable option moving forward. I have been using karakas for a while because of its added utility in some matchups, but also because I run 1 Siege-gang Commander AND 1 Kiki-jiki, Mirror Breaker. 3 Thalia in the board, no warren wierding in the 75. (It is unfortunately lack-luster...)

  14. #7434
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by henweigh View Post
    That's a nice idea. When you say some upside, what are you thinking? Do you mean some upside beyond destroying an artifact? If so, what kind of upside?
    Playable:

    2R

    When ~ comes into play, destroy target artifact

    2/2

    A little upside: Same thing as above, but add haste

    Probably too much to ask for:

    1RR

    Haste

    When ~ comes into play, you may destroy target artifact. If you do, ~ gets +x/+0 until end of turn, where X is the CMC of the artifact destroyed.

    1/2

    I also like the pridemage idea.

  15. #7435

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Hi everybody,

    I was the mirror match GoboLord mentioned in his previous report. First of all, thanks a lot for supervising this threat. I think it adds much value to the Goblin tribe. Being my first legacy tournament, I decided to play a list very similar to the one of Josiah Skallerup:

    MANA (22)
    4 Caverns
    4 Hovel
    2 sulfurous springs (my fetch lands did not arrive in time)
    3 Chrome Mox
    3 Mountain
    4 Wasteland
    2 Badlands


    4-OFFs (28)
    Vial
    Lackey
    Winstigator
    Piledriver
    Chieftain
    Matron
    Ringleader

    OTHERS (10)
    3 Tarfire
    2 Weirding
    2 Tuktuk Scrapper
    1 Warchief
    1 Stinger
    1 kiki-jiki

    Sideboard
    4 Chalice
    2 Earwig Squad
    2 sharpshooter
    4 Cabal Therapy
    1 stinger

    Matchups:
    R1: BUG Delver 1-2
    game 1: He began. I played cavern and vial. Then he wasted my cavern, leaving me behind with a wasteland as my only land in my hand and a vial on board. I didn't catch a land the next two turns and this was it. Maybe I should have taken a mulligan.
    game 2: I drew pretty well with my ringleaders. He played a goyf and a TNN, but my board advantage was high enough to win.
    game 3: He drew three goyfs, which where all in play in turn 4 or 5. Too much to handle. A perish would have been priceless ...

    R2: Death and Taxes 2-1

    R3: MIRROR MATCH 2-1
    I think you mentioned all important things, Gobo. If you are second to play and do not have any answer a turn 1 lackey, you lose. Seeing your decklist now, I think you were favorable in this matchup, having a full set of tarfires and 2 dismember to answer lackey.

    I do not like warchief too much in our decklist (winstigator+lackey+vial provides enough speed). Of course, being able to play 2-3 piledrivers at once was impressive at first sight. But if you have any blockers, like I did, it is not much of a problem, since you can trade the piledrivers 1on1 in most cases.


    R4: Shardless BUG 2-1

    Wasteland were priceless in the matchup. In the last match I played Lackey on turn one and wasted two of his lands on turn 2 and 3 for the win.

    A few comments on your deck list Gobo:

    I really like your sideboard. I strongly consider to add dismember or perish, too. In my match ups my current sideboard was not very helpful (I did not face combo or SnT). A perish would have won the game for me against BUG delver. I feel like I need an answer to goyf in addition to the two warrens.

    I also like your idea of TSH, instead of tuktuk. Tuktuk just is too expensive in a lot of scenarios. However, I am not sure if playing only 3 Wastelands is worth it. Furthermore, if your opponents plays any land disruption (like wastes and ports) he might deny your green many source in order to protect his artifacts. Did you have any experience with the issue of having green mana when you need it so far?

    A word on Grenzo:
    Like we discussed yesterday, 2 (3 might be too much) Grenzos might suit well in this deck. In my opinion, the conflict with ringleader is not as high as on might think on first sight. In the cases, where we are able to play a ringleader we typically are able to generate board advantage. In these cases one might not even need the ability of Grenzo. We particularly need him, when we are not able to draw a ringleader and are playing topdeck.
    Since Grenzo is so mana hungry, I consider adding 2-3 ancient tombs to my decklist. This could give us even more speed in cases where we cannot connect with lackey or winstigator (mox and tomb enable you to play ringleader in turn two). What do you think of this option?

  16. #7436
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Has anyone ever tried/considered Spirit of the Labyrinth instead of Thalia?

  17. #7437
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Avatara View Post
    Has anyone ever tried/considered Spirit of the Labyrinth instead of Thalia?
    See jrw1985's last report
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  18. #7438

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Grenzo is testing well, but only with plenty of fetches to balance its interaction with ringleader.

  19. #7439

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    @Manic Goblin: I'd settle for the upside of "may destroy".

  20. #7440

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by v1ND View Post
    @Manic Goblin: I'd settle for the upside of "may destroy".
    That's actually a pretty good upside in our deck.

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