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Thread: [Deck] Goblins

  1. #7681
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Potdindy View Post
    How good is Settler? I've seen him popping up in more and more lists here. Is it becoming something that will be a mainstay of the deck if even as a 1-of?
    She's not great alone. She's better in something like Mogg Catcher where you get her one turn, then recur her with Kiki Jiki.

  2. #7682
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    I don't believe you understand the interaction.

    Kiki on the board.
    Play Resto.
    Resto targets Kiki.
    Kiki copies Resto then disappears.

    Kiki returns in time for the new Resto to target Kiki.
    Continue doing this until you are content.

    Swing FTW.
    I honestly went full retard and forgot that's an infinite combo.

  3. #7683
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    I decided to throw caution to the wind and played a weird list on Wednesday. Here's what the deck essentially looked like: The main points are No Vials, No Ports, No Splash.

    4 Lackey
    4 Winstigator

    4 Tarfire
    4 Gempalm

    4 Matron
    4 Ringleader
    2 Krenko

    4 Chieftain
    1 Warchief

    2 Stingscourger
    2 Mogg War Marshal
    1 Piledriver

    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Wasteland
    4 Cavern of Souls
    12 Mountain

    Sideboard
    4 Goblin Skycutter
    2 Tuktuk Scrapper
    2 Skirk Prospector
    1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
    1 Piledriver
    3 mindbreak Trap
    2 Chalice of the Void

    I really wanted to try this build in a real-life scenario. The thinking behind it was: take out Vial to increase the threat count, remove Port and Splash to limit color screw, Play Chrome Mox to accelerate WI and 3-drops.

    Here's how it went.

    R1 lands
    I opened on a hand with 2 Mountains and a Winstigator and gas. on the play I went Mountain, go. He played T1 land, manabonds and dumped 6 lands onto the battlefield at end step, including Port. i never had RR the rest of the game. Oh, and T2 he Gambled into Loam. L
    He didn't know for certain that I was on Gobbos yet, but he kept and opening hand with Tabernacle after mulling to 6. Then he immediately played an Exploration and got Loam going. les sigh. I was able to get a board together, but his Thespian Stages made 5 Maze of iths on the battlefield. huh. L

    Vial would have been good, but what i really needed was more playable 1 and 2 drops. Our 3 and 4 drops are amazing, but it was impossible getting through his wall of Ports and Mazes.

    R2 UW Delver Stoneblade
    G1 She has SFMx2 and FoW backup for my Tarfire. I scoop to Skull+Jitte cuz i don't have Tuktuk main.
    G2 I crush pretty handily thanks to the high threat count and all my removal.
    G3 She mulls to 4 and I win patiently.

    R3 Infect
    G1 i win off T1 Cavernn, lackey, T2 bounce his Infecter with Stingscourger, cheat in Krenko. He can't beat Krenko.
    G2 My lack of 1-drops makes blocking difficult and I lose.
    G3 I see an opening 7 with all 3s and 4s. I mull to 6. All 3s and 4s. I decide not to mull further and die on T3 to a berserking Infect.
    Here's what really sucks about this matchup- The infect tribe has better 1 and 2 drops than we do. Sad.

    Goblin Skycutter is totally playable as a sideboard card. Probably just a 2-of. Delver is everywhere so why not play a card that actually kills delver and plays through counters?

    Tuktuk would be much better if he wasn't 4 mana. I can't mainboard him. He's too bad to mainboard. And I will not play Tin-Street.

    We need more playable 1 and 2 drops. They are our weakest slots for bodies. If you really just want to play goblin cards there is not much to put in the 1 and 2 drop slots. What we have in those slots are grossly outclassed by those slots in the rest of the format. Also, if we had better 1 and 2 drops Vial would become better. Usually Vial just has to sit around for 3 turns before it does anything. having more 1 and 2 drops that weren't outclassed by the format would make Vial soooooo much better.

  4. #7684
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    I decided to throw caution to the wind and played a weird list on Wednesday. Here's what the deck essentially looked like: The main points are No Vials, No Ports, No Splash.

    4 Lackey
    4 Winstigator

    4 Tarfire
    4 Gempalm

    4 Matron
    4 Ringleader
    2 Krenko

    4 Chieftain
    1 Warchief

    2 Stingscourger
    2 Mogg War Marshal
    1 Piledriver

    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Wasteland
    4 Cavern of Souls
    12 Mountain

    Sideboard
    4 Goblin Skycutter
    2 Tuktuk Scrapper
    2 Skirk Prospector
    1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
    1 Piledriver
    3 mindbreak Trap
    2 Chalice of the Void

    I really wanted to try this build in a real-life scenario. The thinking behind it was: take out Vial to increase the threat count, remove Port and Splash to limit color screw, Play Chrome Mox to accelerate WI and 3-drops.

    Here's how it went.

    R1 lands
    I opened on a hand with 2 Mountains and a Winstigator and gas. on the play I went Mountain, go. He played T1 land, manabonds and dumped 6 lands onto the battlefield at end step, including Port. i never had RR the rest of the game. Oh, and T2 he Gambled into Loam. L
    He didn't know for certain that I was on Gobbos yet, but he kept and opening hand with Tabernacle after mulling to 6. Then he immediately played an Exploration and got Loam going. les sigh. I was able to get a board together, but his Thespian Stages made 5 Maze of iths on the battlefield. huh. L

    Vial would have been good, but what i really needed was more playable 1 and 2 drops. Our 3 and 4 drops are amazing, but it was impossible getting through his wall of Ports and Mazes.

    R2 UW Delver Stoneblade
    G1 She has SFMx2 and FoW backup for my Tarfire. I scoop to Skull+Jitte cuz i don't have Tuktuk main.
    G2 I crush pretty handily thanks to the high threat count and all my removal.
    G3 She mulls to 4 and I win patiently.

    R3 Infect
    G1 i win off T1 Cavernn, lackey, T2 bounce his Infecter with Stingscourger, cheat in Krenko. He can't beat Krenko.
    G2 My lack of 1-drops makes blocking difficult and I lose.
    G3 I see an opening 7 with all 3s and 4s. I mull to 6. All 3s and 4s. I decide not to mull further and die on T3 to a berserking Infect.
    Here's what really sucks about this matchup- The infect tribe has better 1 and 2 drops than we do. Sad.

    Goblin Skycutter is totally playable as a sideboard card. Probably just a 2-of. Delver is everywhere so why not play a card that actually kills delver and plays through counters?

    Tuktuk would be much better if he wasn't 4 mana. I can't mainboard him. He's too bad to mainboard. And I will not play Tin-Street.

    We need more playable 1 and 2 drops. They are our weakest slots for bodies. If you really just want to play goblin cards there is not much to put in the 1 and 2 drop slots. What we have in those slots are grossly outclassed by those slots in the rest of the format. Also, if we had better 1 and 2 drops Vial would become better. Usually Vial just has to sit around for 3 turns before it does anything. having more 1 and 2 drops that weren't outclassed by the format would make Vial soooooo much better.

    This hurts my brain to see no vials. Instant speed little green men is so fantastic. I completely agree that there's a complete lack of 1-2 drop power in our arsenal.

  5. #7685
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Mrblueduck, thank you for such a great list. I've got home from a business trip and got some games, 6 people was watchig this deck in action in cockatrice while I was winning counter game vs reanimator around S&T, rushing shardless BUG, pimping up the lackey with pendelhaven vs UG foodchain

    The list is:
    4 goblin lackey
    4 aether vial
    2 tarfire
    4 warren instigator
    2 tin street hooligan
    2 mogg war marshal
    1 stingscourger
    2 gempalm incinerator
    3 goblin chieftain
    4 goblin matron
    4 goblin ringleader
    2 goblin settlers
    1 kiki-jiki, mirror breaker
    2 pyrokinesis

    3 arid mesa
    4 scalding tarn
    4 cavern of souls
    3 snow-covered mountain
    2 volcanic island
    1 taiga
    4 wasteland
    2 pendelhaven


    4 relic of progenitus(I dont like the fourth one, but dont know what to put instead)
    4 swan song
    2 flusterstorm
    2 mindbreack trap
    1 krosan grip
    1 goblin sharpshooter
    1 boartusk liege

    So going to order instigators, chiefs and settlers to try it in real.

  6. #7686
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    Tourney Report

    Hello all. I just put up another great run at my LGS today at our monthly premium Legacy event so it's time for another tourney report.

    My list hasn't changed much from my last tourney (since I 4-0'd) but I'm still trying to get things "perfect" so I did make a few tweaks. I cut Gempalm and Weirding to go up to 2 Stingscourger and 4 Tarfires (which I think are essential) because I wanted an excuse to be mono red during my game 1's. I don't like having to decide between being Wasteland-proof or having access to black just in case I topdeck my 1-of black card every time I fetch so I decided to cut Weirding entirely. Yes, it can be a good tutor target, and it has done work against Goyf and TNN on occasion, but I felt like trying things without it for awhile. In the sideboard I cut the Wort and used the now maindeck Stingscourger slot to go to 4 Earwig Squad and 2 Sharpshooter.



    //MANA [22]:
    4 Wasteland
    4 Cavern Of Souls
    4 Badlands
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Mountain
    3 Chrome Mox

    //CORE [28]:
    4 AEther Vial
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Warren Instigator
    4 Goblin Piledriver
    4 Goblin Chieftain
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Ringleader

    //OTHER [10]:
    4 Tarfire
    2 Tuktuk Scrapper
    2 Stingscourger
    1 Siege-Gang Commander
    1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker


    //SIDEBOARD [15]:
    4 Chalice Of The Void
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Earwig Squad
    2 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Goblin Settler



    Buy in was $30 and we had a turnout of 16 players.



    Round 1 vs Shardless BUG

    Game 1: I keep 6 on the play and lead with Cavern, Lackey. My opponent has Underground Sea, pass. I swing with Lackey, drop Matron which gets a Chieftain and play Piledriver. He plays Baleful Strix and passes. I Tarfire the Strix, swing with the Lackey and Piledriver, dropping the Chieftain. He plays Shardless Agent which reveals a Thoughtseize before (kind of) rage quitting.

    Sideboarding: As my maindeck is geared to beat the squire decks I don't need to make any changes.

    Game 2: I mull to six on the draw. My opponent leads with a DRS, while I counter with an AEther Vial. His 2nd turn is Goyf, while I tick Vial to 1 and play Instigator. Turn 3 finds him playing another DRS, but since the only thing in the yard is a fetchland he declines to attack with Goyf. My turn 3 has me playing Piledriver, which meets an Abrupt Decay. I drop a Matron and dig up a Ringleader to draw some gas in a game that's obviously turning into a longer grind but I can't play it yet. He drops Liliana and I sac Matron, then swings with Goyf and hits me for 3. My next turn I play my Ringleader, flipping 3 Wasteland and a Piledriver. Sadface. I use the hasty Ringleader and an Instigator to attack past his 1 untapped DRS to take out Lilly. His next turn is Strix, and his Goyf hits for 4. I follow with a topdecked Ringleader but it's FoW'd since I have no Cavern. I draw a Wasteland and get one of his 2 lands. At this point the my opponent has DRS, DRS, Goyf, and 1 land, while I have Vial, Piledriver, Ringleader, Ringleader, and 4 or 5 lands. For the next 4 or 5 turns, he only draws nonlands and passes, while I draw only lands and moxes and pass. I'm kind of wondering why he is holding his Goyf back as it has grown to a 5/6, but I'm not complaining. At one point he burns the last land in the yard to Hymn me, but it only gets a Mox and a dead Scrapper. Eventually I draw my 3rd Ringleader and it flips 2 Chieftain and a Stingscourger. I use this to make an EoT Chieftain, then swing, and after blocks I drop the second Chieftain and he kind of rage quits again, even though I think he had another turn. Anyway, I wasn't complaining.

    1-0



    Round 2 vs Death & Taxes

    Game 1: We both mull to 6 but I'm on the play. I keep a fairly sketchy hand, which includes 3 lands, Mox, Instigator and Scrapper, hoping to draw another goblin on turn 2. I drop the Mox with Scrapper and play Instigator. He has turn 1 Plains, Mother of Runes. I draw dead but I must have done a good job representing SGC because he throws his Mom under the bus. Wow! How lucky. He draws for his second turn and passes, still on just one Plains. I smash with Instigator but have nothing to drop. He now realizes sacrificing his Mom was a mistake. He finds his second plains next turn and drops a Spellskite, I topdeck Ringleader and it flips a Scrapper. Realizing it's going to kill his Spellskite next turn he decides to scoop.

    Sideboarding: -2 Stingscourger // +2 Sharpshooter

    Game 2: This time he's on the play, but neither of us have turn 1 plays. Turn 2 he has Spellskite again, I match with Instigator. Next he has SFM and he goes to get a Batterskull. On my next turn I come up with a slightly crafty play: I swing with Instigator and he blocks with Spellskite. Then I tarfire his SFM, he uses Spellskite to redirect, but since it has already taken 2 this turn it hits the bin, then I use my second Tarfire to target the SFM again. :) Sadly, he has a Fiendhunter to snatch my Instigator next turn. I draw a Chieftain and attack, he consults a judge about the Oracle text on Pyrokinesis before declines to block with his 1/3. Mwahaha. Sadly, the next few turns involved him drawing and playing Sword of Fire and Ice on his Fiendhunter, Serra Avenger, and hardcasting his Batterskull while I only have 4 lands, so my answers of Matron for Scrapper > Scrapper on Sword > Matron again for another Scrapper, take a whole turn each time, and by the time I kill the two equipment he has me down to six, allowing the Serra Avenger and a Flickerwisp to kill me.

    Game 3: I keep my 7 on the play, leading with Vial. He also leads with Vial. I play turn 2 Instigator, he has turn 2 Spellskite. I come in swinging next with a Chieftain, and he quickly blocks the Instigator, not realizing the Chieftain will mean it dies. Next I drop a Scrapper on his Vial, and he apparently has no gas left (already?) and scoops.

    2-0



    Round 3 vs Storm

    Game 1: I win the die roll (again!) but we both mull to 5. My first play is a turn 3 Chieftain while my opponent plays/spins a top and fetches over and over. Eventually I draw a Matron a decide to go for Piledriver to close things out before he can assemble his kill. He casts Therapy naming Piledriver and spins his top some more. Luckily, I topdeck another Piledriver my next turn and smash for 6. He Brainstorms and Piledrivers a few times, but never gets what he needs before my 2 Goblins take it down.

    Sideboarding: Here's what my sideboard is built for! -4 Vial, -4 Tarfire, -2 Stingscourger, -2 Scrapper, -1 Ringleader // +4 Chalice, +4 Therapy, +4 Earwig Squad, +1 Settler

    Game 2: We both mull to 6 and he leads with Island, Brainstorm. I play Wasteland, Mox, Lackey. I don't think he plays another spell the rest of the game, while I follow up with Lackey trigger into Instigator, and Chalice on 0 and 1. Awww yeah. My next Lackey trigger drops a Piledriver and the Instigator drops a Ringleader into Earwig Squad. Chalice OP. GG.

    3-0



    Round 4 vs 12 Post

    Game 1: I knew the guy playing 12 Post and he was the main reason I recently ebay'd up a Goblin Settler to put in my sideboard. Tutorable Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale is bad news for the goblin horde. Once again I win the roll and keep a great hand, leading with Mox, Instigator. He repeals my Mox to draw a card, but since Instigator was already on the table, I wasn't too sad about that. Next turn Instigator hits and drops Ringleader (completely wiffing!) but luckily I also had SGC in hand so I make some tokens. He takes a turn to explore, drawing a card and dropping a Cloudpost or two. I smash in with the team, dropping another Ringleader, flipping Kiki-Jiki (which also hits the table) and Piledriver, which I play with my lands. Now this whole time I had been keeping and untapped Wasteland on the table, knowing his deck was capable of tutoring up Tabernacle. Sure enough, the next turn he Crop Roations into his Tabernacle and I waste it, but he uses a Thespian Stage to copy it! So on my next turn I have to pay some upkeep. I use my 2 mana to save Kiki-Jiki and Instigator, letting Piledriver and the Siege Gang team die. I copy my Instigator, dropping him from 6 to 2, and hope he doesn't have another big play. Luckily he had nothing after that and I get the win.

    Sideboarding: -4 Vial, -4 Tarfire, -1 Stingscourger // +4 Chalice Of The Void, +4 Earwig Squad, +1 Goblin Settler.

    Game 2: He leads with turn 1 Candelabra, and I have Mox, Instigator again. He drops Exploration Map and I follow with Chieftain while Instigator drops Piledriver and Earwig Squad (I didn't have black mana to prowl, so hence the Chieftain play). I was feeling pretty good about this start, but on his next turn he plays Pithing Needle on Wasteland and Glacial Chasm! I spend the rest of the game not drawing Scrapper, Settler, or Matron and passing the turn while he assembles Thespian Stage on Dark Depths and kills me with a 20/20 flyer the turn before being unable to pay the Chasm's upkeep. Wow!

    Game 3: We both keep our 7's and I lead with Lackey. He plays Needle on Wasteland (again)! My Lackey drops Chieftain and I play an Instigator. He has also Tabernacle again, and since I only have two mana I have to sack a guy, I choose to bin Chieftain and keep the Lackey and Instigator. I swing with my 2 guys, and with my three triggers I drop Ringleader (getting 2 Piledrivers and Earwig Squad) and Matron into Settler on the Tabernacle! So clutch! He plays another Cloudpost, and my next turn has me swinging for 7 and prowling out an Earwig Squad. With his Tabernacle out of the way, I use the ability to exile his Glacial Chasm and two copies of Elephant Grass. I was feeling pretty confidant he didn't have any more outs, and sure enough, he told me the only one he had left was Oblivion Stone but he could only make 7 mana that turn, instead of 8.

    4-0



    Round 5 vs Sneak & Show

    Game 1: I win the die roll for a FIFTH time in a row (!!!) and we both keep 7's. I lead with Vial, he has a Ponder. I have nothing but a Vial tick on turn 2, but he also has nothing. I drop a Lackey at the end of his turn 2 and swing with it to drop a SGC and then play a topdecked Instigator. On turn 3 he uses a Lotus Petal to play a Sneak Attack, but has no mana left to activate it. I Vial out a Piledriver EOT and then swing for 21 on my next turn. Sweeeet.

    Sideboarding: -4 Vial, -4 Tarfire, -3 Ringleader, -2 Scraper // +4 Chalice, +4 Therapy, +4 Earwig Squad, +1 Settler

    Game 2: He starts by hardcasting a Gitaxian Probe. I play back at him with Therapy naming Show & Tell. He reveals Island, Volcanic Island, Grislebrand, Grislebrand, Sneak Attack, and Massacre Wurm. He plays another Island and passes. I have turn 2 Instigator. He plays his Volcanic Island and passes again. I attack with Instigator and drop two Earwig Squads, and since I know they can live through the Wurm's CiP ability and I use the Instigator to flackback Therapy, naming Grislebrand, and then play another Instigator. He draws a Lotus Petal to activate his Sneak Attack and hits me with the Wurm. I trade it with one of the Earwig Squads to preserve my life total of 16 (just in case I need to survive a future Emrakul swing). He draw-goes a few times while I start taking chunks of life away from him with the Squad. I eventually draw another Therapy which whiffs on a Massacre Wurm guess, but I flashback to get rid of the Lotus Petal (only relevant card in hand). Finally, with him at 6 life, me at 16 with 1 Earwig Squad, he goes Ponder, shuffle-draw, Ponder, shuffle-draw into... Emrakul! How lucky! right? But here I am sitting at 16 life, and 7 permanents. (Hey, I planned it that way!) He swings for 15, putting me to 1 life and I sack 3 lands, Mox, Vial and Piledriver, to leave my single Earwig Squad on the table. Next turn I put him to one, and his next draw is not another creature and so the Squad is able to go the distance.

    5-0



    In the end, I walked away with $108 in store credit, putting me up $78 after the $30 entry fee. Yet another undefeated run! Sure, it certainly helped to win the die roll every time, but regardless, I am feeling super good about the list, especially for my local metagame. I highly recommend something similar for anyone experiencing lackluster results with traditional lists running War Marshal/Warchief/Gempalm/Thalia sans Mox/Instigator/Chieftain/Tarfire. Let me know if you have any questions and thanks for reading.

  7. #7687

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Good to see Instigator doing some heavy lifting, I think I'll be grabbing some soon along with Moxes. I'm just gonna throw this out there, but what about Frenzied Goblin? I haven't gotten to test him or anything, but I've found that a lot of times, I'm sitting with a bunch of 1/1's and facing a single goyf or batterskull. He would help instigator connect more often if played turn 1 and for perhaps 1-2 mana helps keep one big blocker from ruining our day. I'm not sure, but hadn't seen it spoken of yet so wanted to throw it out there while looking for 1 drops.

  8. #7688
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    cooljets, great job! Congratz!

  9. #7689

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Hey Cooljets,

    At first i love the tournament reports verry clever playing around that emrakul!!
    How good is our matchup against dredge. In my meta are alot of dredge decks. So my question is can we fight dredge with this sideboard?
    And i love that tutorable settler, is there a cheaper card that works in that slot as wel since 50 euro's voor a single card is a lot for me.

    I'am deffinitley gonna give the winstagator list a shot, since i think that regular goblins can't do it anymore.

    Thx for the answer in advance

  10. #7690
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    GoboLord's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Congratulations, cooljets, on another successful run! Interesting to see that your MD in MonoR now. I too decided to switch to a Mono R MD because Warren Weiridng didn't impress me lately. My challenge now is to assemble a monoR SB that suits my metagame, but thats a different story.

    ---------------------------------------------
    @ EVERYONE:
    I figured out that some SB strategies in the opening post need some work. Also UWR Delver is a DtB now and I want to update that section.
    What are your suggestions for Tier 1 and Tier 2 (SB-)cards in the MUs listed below?


    IV. Matchups & Sideboarding

    A list of matchups and cards that are effective against the respective deck. This section will be updated regularly as the Decks to Beat change and as players are developing new strategies.
    Tier 1 = cards you should put in your SB when you want to prepare your list for the matchup; these cards have a huge impact on the matchup
    Tier 2 = cards you should board in if they are available; these cards can help you to gain some % postboard

    Ad Nauseam Tendrils (ANT) & The Epic Storm (TES)
    Tier 1:Chalice of the Void, Thorn of Amethyst, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Ethersworn Canonist, Mindbreak Trap, Flusterstorm
    Tier 2: Earwig Squad, Cabal Therapy, Relic of Progenitus, Surgical Extraction, Leyline of the Void, Rest in Peace, Grafdigger’s Cage, Goblin Sharpshooter, Phyrexian Revoker, Null Rod
    Suggested reading about Leyline of the Void, click here.
    Cards you should NOT run instead:Extirpate Faerie Macabre, Rakdos Charm , Tormod’s Crypt, Nihil Spellbomb, Pyrostatic Pillar, Orim’s Chant, Silence, Inquisition of Kozilek, Duress

    Elves
    Tier 1: Chalice of the Void,Pyrokinesis, Goblin Sharpshooter, Grafdigger's Cage, Perish, Nature’s Ruin
    Tier 2: Tin Street Hooligan, Tuktuk Scrapper, Pithing Needle, Phyrexian Revoker

    Sneak Show
    Tier 1: Ashen Rider, Confusion in the Ranks, Cabal Therapy
    Tier 2: Earwig Squad, Pithing Needle, Phyrexian Revoker, Swan Song, Stingscourger, Thorn of Amethyst, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    Cards you should NOT run instead: Angel of Despair, Oblivion Ring, Red Elemental Blast, Pyroblast

    Miracles
    Tier 1: Earwig Squad, Sulfuric Vortex, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Ethersworn Cannonist, Swan Song
    Tier 2: Pithing Needle, Phyrexian Revoker, Thorn of Amethyst, Cabal Therapy, Wear//Tear
    Cards you should NOT run instead: Choke, Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon

    UWx Blade decks
    Tier 1: Tin Street Hooligan, Tuktuk Scrapper, Wear/Tear, Ancient Grudge
    Tier 2: Pithing Needle, Phyrexian Revoker, Cabal Therapy, Krosan Grip, Nature’s Claim, Goblin Sharpshooter
    Cards you should NOT run instead: Meltdown, Shattering Spree, Shatterstorm, Pulverize, Seal of Cleansing, Virtue’s Ruin, Anarchy, Relic of Progenitus

    Death & Taxes
    Tier 1: Tin Street Hooligan, Tuktuk Scrapper, Wear/Tear, Ancient Grudge, Pyrokinesis, Goblin Sharpshooter
    Tier 2: Pithing Needle, Phyrexian Revoker, Cabal Therapy, Dismember, Nature’s Claim
    Cards you should NOT run instead: Krosan Grip, Sulfur Elemental , Virtue’s Ruin, Anarchy

    BUG Delver
    Tier 1: Boartusk Liege
    Tier 2: Relic of Progenitus, Rest in Peace, Perish, Nature’s Ruin, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Earwig Squad, Swang Song
    Cards you should NOT run instead: Goblin King, Tormod’s Crypt

    Jund and Nic Fit
    Tier 1: Boartusk Liege, Relic of Progenitus, Rest in Peace, Perish, Nature’s Ruin
    Tier 2: Earwig Squad, Pithing Needle, Phyrexian Revoker, Dismember, Sulfuric Vortex

    BUG Delver
    Tier 1: Boartusk Liege
    Tier 2: Relic of Progenitus, Rest in Peace, Perish, Nature’s Ruin, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Earwig Squad, Swang Song
    Cards you should NOT run instead: Goblin King, Tormod’s Crypt

    Canadian Threshold, (b)URG Delver
    Tier 1: Relic of Progenitus, Rest in Peace, Perish, Nature’s Ruin, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    Tier 2: Calice of the Void, Cabal Therapy, Pyroblast, Red Elemental Blast

    UWR Patriot Delver
    Tier 1:
    Tier 2:
    Last edited by GoboLord; 08-04-2014 at 01:28 PM.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  11. #7691
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord View Post
    Elves
    Tier 1: Chalice of the Void,Pyrokinesis, Goblin Sharpshooter, Perish, Nature’s Ruin
    Tier 2: Tin Street Hooligan, Tuktuk Scrapper, Grafdigger’s Cage, Pithing Needle, Phyrexian Revoker
    Hooligan, Scrapper? Why? For the random Needle/Null Rod? Cage should be Tier 1, it's an absurd pain in the ass and actively makes itself harder to solve. I probably hate it more than sweepers. Chalice isn't that amazing postboard IMO (though still good).

    Max. PITA rated cards from an Elf player's POV:
    1: Cage
    2: Sharpshooter, Pyrokinesis
    3: The rest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  12. #7692
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombie View Post
    Hooligan, Scrapper? Why? For the random Needle/Null Rod? Cage should be Tier 1, it's an absurd pain in the ass and actively makes itself harder to solve. I probably hate it more than sweepers. Chalice isn't that amazing postboard IMO (though still good).

    Max. PITA rated cards from an Elf player's POV:
    1: Cage
    2: Sharpshooter, Pyrokinesis
    3: The rest.
    I readily believe you that Grafdigger's Cage is a pain in the ass and probably the card you dislike the most. However, the way I see the MU it is not Natural Order and Green Sun'sZenith that are killing me, but Glimpse of Nature and/or a "regular" Elves beat-down with Nettle Sentinel, backed-up with Umezawa's Jitte (which is why I listed TSH and Scrapper as Tier 2). Natural Order is probably way more problematic for other decks (ANT, decks with discard that grab your Glimpse, decks that arn't scared of beatdown because their creatures are large enough to block). In my mind I'm losing against Elves whenever I can't get my men past your blockers, in other words: when your board is stalled. Even if Elves go off with Glimpse and they "fizzle" before they could cast their Natural Order, there is still a huge amount of blockers left behind which kills me next turn (which is why I listed Chalice as Tier 1 to counter Glimpse and sweepers as Tier 1 to delete early blockers/manadorks).

    I agree though that is awkward of me to rank TSH/Scrapper in the same category as Grafdigger's Cage.

    Thank you for your input.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  13. #7693

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    @cooljets: Thanks for posting your tourney report. I took your list to a local legacy tournament and finished 3-0. The decks I beat were Tezzeret Affinity (2-1), Shardless BUG (2-1) and Burn (2-1).

    Here is the list I played:

    //MANA [22]:
    4 Wasteland
    4 Cavern Of Souls
    4 Auntie's Hovel
    4 Blackcleave Cliffs
    3 Mountain
    3 Chrome Mox

    //CORE [28]:
    4 AEther Vial
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Warren Instigator
    4 Goblin Piledriver
    4 Goblin Chieftain
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Ringleader

    //OTHER [10]:
    4 Tarfire
    2 Tuktuk Scrapper
    2 Stingscourger
    1 Siege-Gang Commander
    1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker


    //SIDEBOARD [15]:
    4 Chalice Of The Void
    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Earwig Squad
    2 Goblin Sharpshooter
    2 Relic of Progenitus

    There are few differences between our lists, but essentially this is the cooljets list (gotta give credit where credit is due). Unfortunately, I don't own any Badlands or Bloodstained Mires, however, I have played black/red goblins in the past and Auntie's Hovel and Blackcleave cliffs have never caused me any problems.

    You just play the card you reveal with Hovel and Blackcleave Cliffs almost always comes into play untapped because of all the Wastelands in Legacy. I know some might be skeptical, but I assure you these lands work just fine in black/red goblins and because they are viewed as budget lands they are good for some rub-ins. Nothing feels better than winning with rarely played cards.

    The sideboard was also off by a couple of cards. Once again, I don't own a Goblin Settler (although I would like to) and I didn't have a fourth Earwig Squad, however, Re-animator, Dredge and Goyf decks show up quite often in my meta so Relic of Progenitus was a decent substitute. In fact, I wouldn't have won my match against Shardless Bug without them.

    Cards not commonly seen in Goblin decks that impressed me all day were Tarfire, Warren Instigator, Goblin Chieftan and Kik-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. Tarfire cleared the way for Lackeys and Instigators and Chieftans were pumping the Instigators. Four damage and two free goblins is a huge tempo swing.

    Finally, Kiki-Jiki + Matron or Ringleader was closing out games. First time I've ever played with Kiki-Jiki in a tournment and it was impressive.

  14. #7694
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord View Post
    I readily believe you that Grafdigger's Cage is a pain in the ass and probably the card you dislike the most. However, the way I see the MU it is not Natural Order and Green Sun'sZenith that are killing me, but Glimpse of Nature and/or a "regular" Elves beat-down with Nettle Sentinel, backed-up with Umezawa's Jitte (which is why I listed TSH and Scrapper as Tier 2). Natural Order is probably way more problematic for other decks (ANT, decks with discard that grab your Glimpse, decks that arn't scared of beatdown because their creatures are large enough to block). In my mind I'm losing against Elves whenever I can't get my men past your blockers, in other words: when your board is stalled. Even if Elves go off with Glimpse and they "fizzle" before they could cast their Natural Order, there is still a huge amount of blockers left behind which kills me next turn (which is why I listed Chalice as Tier 1 to counter Glimpse and sweepers as Tier 1 to delete early blockers/manadorks).

    I agree though that is awkward of me to rank TSH/Scrapper in the same category as Grafdigger's Cage.

    Thank you for your input.
    I agree that the beatdown plan is strong vs. Goblins. I just think that as strong as Perish and the like are, there's a certain slowness to them. It's why I rated Pyrokinesis and Sharpshooter high - Sharpshooter half-locks us while Pyrokinesis allows you to apply pressure while building a board better. Rebuilding after a typical Wrath is not terribly hard is all. They're still good cards, but Cage+Pyro+Sharpshooter is just the better plan. Elves has a million angles, and that configuration attacks more of them than a mass of sweepers does. A pure sweeper plan will just keel over and die to a Worldspine Wurm or a random Hornet Queen, for example. Without Cage, we can also just pull off stunts like Gobs: Perish => EOT crack fetch for Dryad Arbor, untap, NO FTW. Cage shuts that down at two separate points.

    From what I've seen Jitte is not that common, so boarding in more artifact hate sounds pretty bad. If you have a couple hate pieces maindeck, fine, but you'll get more mileage out of shutting down the tutoring engine and attacking the resource massing plan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  15. #7695
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    Cage is good against Elves but it doesn't do much against the rest of the meta. Its graveyard clause is obviously good against dredge and Reanimator and I guess Past in Flames, but the library clause only really works against elves. It's a narrow card and I wouldn't run it unless my meta was crawling with elves.

    Or am I missing something? I guess there are a few GSZ decks besides elves, but not that many. GSZ is not a card I'm generally worried about finding an answer to. And on the graveyard side Cage doesn't shut off Goyf or PF, which makes it less attractive to me than Relic.

  16. #7696
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    Cage is good against Elves but it doesn't do much against the rest of the meta. Its graveyard clause is obviously good against dredge and Reanimator and I guess Past in Flames, but the library clause only really works against elves. It's a narrow card and I wouldn't run it unless my meta was crawling with elves.

    Or am I missing something? I guess there are a few GSZ decks besides elves, but not that many. GSZ is not a card I'm generally worried about finding an answer to. And on the graveyard side Cage doesn't shut off Goyf or PF, which makes it less attractive to me than Relic.
    Well actually it makes sense to attack Elves from a different angle with Cage. We already have some spotremoval and occassionally Sharpshoot in MD so Cage might cover an area that we otherwise can't cover.

    Other than Elves and Reanimator/Dredge I find Cage good vs ANT. That deck usually cant go off via the Ad Nauseam route because we set their lifepoints under pressure in early turns. So the safest route against fast aggro is to increase your storm-count with Past in Flames. Grafdigger's Cage blocks this route whil our aggro plan "blocks" the AdN-engine. At least that'S the theory :-D


    EDIT:
    jrw1985, I noticed in your tournament reports that you have quite some experience with the Delver-decks (don't know if one can put all of them into the same category though).
    I would like to hear your oppinion on Tier 1 and Tier 2 SB card in those MUs. Here is what I thought would be appropriate:

    BUG Delver
    Tier 1: Boartusk Liege
    Tier 2: Relic of Progenitus, Rest in Peace, Perish, Nature’s Ruin, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Earwig Squad, Swang Song
    Cards you should NOT run instead: Goblin King, Tormod’s Crypt

    Canadian Threshold, (b)URG Delver
    Tier 1: Relic of Progenitus, Rest in Peace, Perish, Nature’s Ruin, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    Tier 2: Calice of the Void, Cabal Therapy, Pyroblast, Red Elemental Blast

    UWR Patriot Delver
    Tier 1: ?
    Tier 2: ?

    What are your suggestions here?
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  17. #7697

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    Cage is good against Elves but it doesn't do much against the rest of the meta. Its graveyard clause is obviously good against dredge and Reanimator and I guess Past in Flames, but the library clause only really works against elves. It's a narrow card and I wouldn't run it unless my meta was crawling with elves.

    Or am I missing something? I guess there are a few GSZ decks besides elves, but not that many. GSZ is not a card I'm generally worried about finding an answer to. And on the graveyard side Cage doesn't shut off Goyf or PF, which makes it less attractive to me than Relic.
    Well luckily online 2 of the 3 most popular decks are weak against Cage; Dredge and Elves. As for ranking cards against elves, I am not sure if you only using SB cards or what, but this is the 10 most important cards I would rank. I suppose if I were add Perish, it would be right around Cage, 3rd or 4th.

    1) Spirit of the Labyrinth ( Pre m15 at least)
    2) Pyronkinesis
    3) Grafdigger's Cage
    4) Pendelhaven
    5) Ethersworn Canonist
    6) Tarfire
    7) Gempalm
    8) Lackey
    9) Wasteland
    10) Sharpshooter

  18. #7698
    Hey guys, let's do it! The blue yonder awaits! Yahoo!
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Question, perhaps a silly one, but suppose I attack with a Lackey or Winstigator and put Ruinblaster into play: can I pay the kicker? I would think yes, but I'm not sure. Anyone?

  19. #7699
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatto View Post
    Question, perhaps a silly one, but suppose I attack with a Lackey or Winstigator and put Ruinblaster into play: can I pay the kicker? I would think yes, but I'm not sure. Anyone?
    No.
    Kicker only applies when you cast a spell.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  20. #7700
    Hey guys, let's do it! The blue yonder awaits! Yahoo!
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Aah thanks Gobolord, it's a shame but oh well

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