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Thread: [Deck] Goblins

  1. #7761
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatto View Post
    Congrats and welcome! One question: why Auntie's Hovel? Did you draw them consistently?
    I have played with aunties hovel in the past and haven't had any problems with it. In my meta there seems to be quite a bit of stifles going around. There is a better chance of your cavern or wasleland to get wasted anyway.I like the idea of a mono red main deck for consistency. Outside of all the red goblins I think that earwig squad is by far the most useful. In most game 2 situations you will see your opponent board in sweeper effects like rough/tumble, pyroclasm, or plague effects where the 3 toughness comes in handy. Its power of 5 leaves you in a better position for fighting larger creatures like a batterskull token or a goif, not to mention the powerful stripping effect. I like the strategy of -4 tarfire -4 vial +4 chalice +4 earwig squad for the game 2 match when your expecting your opponent to board in cards like those or if they are playing a deck where 30%+ of there cards cost 1 cmc.

    I'd also like to hear some more opinions on goblin tinkerer and if it is effective against batterskull/sword of fire and ice/jitte

  2. #7762
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    How do you reliably cast cabal therapy from the board with just Auntie's Hovel? Should it be a 2-2 split with Badlands and fetchlands?

  3. #7763
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombiesquisher View Post
    How do you reliably cast cabal therapy from the board with just Auntie's Hovel? Should it be a 2-2 split with Badlands and fetchlands?
    No cabal therapy in the board although I can see its effectiveness. I don't have a problem with running badlands or fetchlands but I don't think the results will be much different beside paying 1 life in a mono red main board. So far I haven't had a problem finding a black source to play earwig squad for its prowl cost between hovel and cavern.

  4. #7764

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    hey guys I am exploring the blue splash right now for a card that I ve heard is pretty good:


    the deck is full of situational cards: lackey, WI and vial are bad to draw after the first couple of turns and you don't want to have a hand full of matrons and ringleaders while you can't hit the third land.
    brainstorm is exceptionally good at all stages of the game. Although brainstorm is not a goblin card it fits very well with ringleader: cast brainstorm, put 2 goblins on top and then cast ringleader. Brainstorm fits well with the natural shuffling effect of matron. Brainstorm helps finding the 1-of that are often present in goblins: artifact hate, stingscourger, fatties. Brainstorm finds lands when you need them and gas when you are flooded.
    I think that a blue splash for brainstorm alone in the main deck is more than good enough to justify the splash. Library manipulation may also finally allow us to shave off some lands without having to affect creature count.
    Other cards that would be interesting to test in the main is izzet charm which is a tarfire + spell pierce and/or stifle/daze to fit the mana denial theme.
    what do you guys think?

  5. #7765
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by fimo View Post
    Brainstorm
    This are my thoughts on it. It is a pretty fun card to play in goblins, and when I finally win a Volcanic I'll certainly play a tournament with it in Goblins.
    That said, you have to cut stuff for it, and might not be worth it. Haven't tried in years though.
    Give it a spin and let us know what you find out!
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  6. #7766
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    @ Gobolord: I noticed you dropped a 'big Bomb' aka SGC or Krenko. Did you missed a 'BB' at all? Do you concider KJ as the big finisher? I was also wondering: if Pendelhaven performs good for you: would you consider TSH over Scrapper? It wouldn't combo with KJ, though.

  7. #7767

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    After being crippled by Combo in the last tournament, I also thought about a blue splash (Oops all spells killed me two times in turn 1; Belcher went off in turn 2 both times, despite my cabal therapy).
    In a black/blue splash Impulse (I think they removed the shuffle rule of the old printing) would also have great synergies with Grenzo.
    If you just want the brainstorm effect, one might also think about sylvan library in a green splash.

  8. #7768
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatto View Post
    @ Gobolord: I noticed you dropped a 'big Bomb' aka SGC or Krenko. Did you missed a 'BB' at all? Do you concider KJ as the big finisher? I was also wondering: if Pendelhaven performs good for you: would you consider TSH over Scrapper? It wouldn't combo with KJ, though.
    After experimenting with the number of "bombs" in the past 10 month I figured out that Winstigator lists do not need more than one 'bomb'. I started with 2 Krenkos in October 2013, because I find Krenko strictly better than Siege Gang Commander (SGC). Then I realized that my Goblin Matron were fetching Ringleader (and not Krenko) most of the time, so I cut it down to 1 copy, then 0 copies. Lately I was a little disapointed with my RIngleaders, so I felt that I needed something else to fetch with Matron (especially when you connect with Winstigator and your first strike puts a Goblin Matron into play). Some players on this thread suggested Kiki-Jiki instead of Krenko and thats where I am now. Connecting with doublestriking Winstigators into Matron and Kiki-Jiki is far better than Matron --> Ringleader and also better than Matron --> Krenko (who doesn't have haste by himself). KJ can pull of combos with basically any card in the deck: copy Matron or Ringleader for cardadvantage, copy Stimngscourger for additional removal, copy Chieftain to prevent damage from Sword of Fire and Ice, copy Tuktuk Scrapper to create a lock against equipments....
    Long story short: Yes, KJ is a finisher (I suggest to read the paragraph in the opening section) and no I did not miss addtional copies.

    Also: yes, I considered TSH over Tuktuk, but TSH will probably replace the Tuktuk in the SB, not in the MD. However, I'm not really enthousiast to splash G (or rather: to run fetches and duals) because I like the very solid manabase. 6 G sources (4 Caverns, 2 Pendelhaven) might not be enough to reliably cast TSH, even less so against D&T.

    @ Wuchterkater: Sylvan Library is a really cool idea! That suddenly makes splashing G a litte more attractive :-D.
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  9. #7769

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    I have been playing goblins for about 2 years - for a long time using primarily the classic Jim Davis/Max Tietze builds and have had much success. I'd tried winstigator builds in the past (with and without chrome mox) and never really been happy with them -- but for the last month I've been running the mrblueduck Winstigator build with goblin settlers and am really impressed with the power and flexibility of this deck.

    The one thing that I consistently have had trouble with (both in the classic build as well as with the winstigator build) is Nic Fit -- for the life of me, I just can't grasp what I need to do to consistently beat it. Can you all share some tips and sideboard advice for handling Nic Fit?

  10. #7770

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Which particular version of Nic Fit are you having trouble with? I still pilot the classic shell and don't have issues like many people here in the forums. I will be piloting my take on Winstigator this weekend to test it out. If you want to shut down Veteran Explorer though, you can always splash white for Rest in Peace. Just remember Rest in Peace and Mogg War Marshal is a nonbo. If you pilot a mono red build, Veteran Explorer can help us as much as them sometimes. Otherwise, it really depends on the variant of Nic Fit you are having trouble dealing with.

  11. #7771

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by L10 View Post
    Which particular version of Nic Fit are you having trouble with? I still pilot the classic shell and don't have issues like many people here in the forums. I will be piloting my take on Winstigator this weekend to test it out. If you want to shut down Veteran Explorer though, you can always splash white for Rest in Peace. Just remember Rest in Peace and Mogg War Marshal is a nonbo. If you pilot a mono red build, Veteran Explorer can help us as much as them sometimes. Otherwise, it really depends on the variant of Nic Fit you are having trouble dealing with.
    I guess I'm not sure -- all of them? Punishing Nic Fit for sure, but not limited to that.

    What are strategies against the different variants?

  12. #7772
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Goblin Massage Parlor View Post
    I guess I'm not sure -- all of them? Punishing Nic Fit for sure, but not limited to that.

    What are strategies against the different variants?
    I have played against the more classic list a few times and simply put Cabal Therapy is backbreaking. I can very quickly establish a board with hand backup but Nic Fit's creatures are all bigger IN ADDITION to literally stripping our hand directly after casting Goblin Ringleader, so we never actually get to swarm mode. I'd advise Rest in Peace, as it does a way better job of shutting down persist, Deathrite Shaman and their terribly scary end game of Reccurring Nightmare compared to Relic of Progenitus. Pendelhaven is actually a big plus in this match-up as most of the important creatures can be traded with or beaten at 2 power. The big issue after that is Pernicious Deed and unfortunately the only way I found to beat it is the same way we beat miracles, with Goblin Ringleader, a card they can deal with with Cabal Therapy. Add Punishing Fire to the build and I think we just lose much more often than we win.

    Race them. Don't play the slow game against deed, break it early so they don't have time to get to their bigger game, I'd even suggest Surgical Extraction if you're not using Rest in Peace.

    If that doesn't work try cheating aggressively, that always seems to get wins..
    /Sarcasm

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  13. #7773
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Goblin Massage Parlor View Post
    I guess I'm not sure -- all of them? Punishing Nic Fit for sure, but not limited to that.

    What are strategies against the different variants?
    NicFIt is good at taking boardcontrol, but very bad and slow at actually winning the game. In game 1 your goal should be to race them. Don't waste time on using wasteland or Rishadan ports, just cast your spells. I would even suggest not to cast Aether Vial when you have better things to do with your mana. Also, kill Veteran Explorer as soon as possible. The only thing that can really stop us in lategame is a flashbacked cabal therapy out of a verteran explorer - this move can cost us like 1-2 turns.
    After Game 1 you should board out Aether Vial for graveyard hate. Also Sulfuric Vortex is an excellent SB card against their deck: it blocks the lifegain of Punishing Fire, Scavenging Ooze, Kitchen FInks and DRS, which they need to stay alive just long enough to take control.
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  14. #7774

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Dedicated Nic Fit players are some of the most devoted brewers I know. There is a variety of Nic Fit variants with their unique win conditions. In ALL cases though, Rest in Peace is the best hate card against them because it shuts down Veteran Explorer, Cabal Therapy (flashback), Recurring Nightmare, Academy Rector, and other graveyard strategies or strategies that requires a creature to die (put into graveyard from battlefield). The MVPs in your deck are Goblin Lackey, Warren Instigator, Goblin Warchief, and Goblin Piledriver because you really try to push the early game before they strip your hand and solidify their board control. Here are some of the different Nic Fit variants.

    - There is the GB Fit. Their strategy is to strip your hand, wipe the board with Pernicious Deed, and kill you hard with Vraska the Unseen, Grave Titan, etc. I'd add in a couple of Pithing Needles or Phyrexian Revokers against Pernicious Deed, Thrun, the Last Troll, Deathrite Shaman, Sensei's Divining Top, and their planeswalkers. Pernicious Deed is probably top priority because it gives you the option to over extend and not worry as much about discard spells, until they find an Abrupt Decay or Maelstrom Pulse anyways.

    - There is the GBW Fit. Their strategy is the same as GB Fit but also has access to Academy Rector and a couple heavy duty enchantments like Primeval Bounty, Moat, and Omniscience. I'd add in some Krosan Grip against their enchantments and Split Second comes in handy against Pernicious Deed. Earwig Squad can be good early on to get rid of their annoying enchantments. If you are playing mono red, SGC is pretty much your only saving grace against Moat.

    - There is Jund Fit. They have access to Punishing Fire, Huntmaster of the Fells, [CARDS]Inferno Titan[CARDS], and [CARDS]Broodmate Dragon[CARDS]. Sulfuric Vortex, along with Rest in Peace, are good in the MU because it stops the Grove of the Burnwillows + Punishing Fire combo, as well as their ability to gain life, which they rely on to take control of the late game.

    - There is Jund Scapeshift. This version usually forgoes the Grove of the Burnwillows + Punishing Fire route and have Scapeshift as a win condition and Burning Wish with Pyroclasm and Firespout in their wishboard. This version also tends to play less discard spells, so not over extending may be a good idea so you can refill the board after a board wipe.

    - There is BGx Pod. This deck is all about Birthing Pod and getting value creatures to do work. The main combo is Grave Titan + Recurring Nightmare. Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is on top of the food chain. Some even play Melira, Sylvok Outcast or Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker to have the option to combo off, very similar to the Modern decks lists but with the shell of BGx Pod. I'd side in Tin Street Hooligan and Tuktuk Scrapper against Birthing Pod. Pithing Needle and Phyrexian Revoker are also worth siding in.

    - There Walker Fit that plays Karn Liberated, Liliana of the Veil, and Jace, the Mind Sculptor over powerful creatures. Veteran Explorer is usually the only creature in the deck, so removing all your creature removal may be appropriate.

    - There is also BUG Fit that plays Baleful Strix, Coiling Oracle, Consecrated Sphinx, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Brainstorm and Ponder. Spirit of the Labyrinth can really put a dent on this deck.

    If you really hate Nic Fit, you can always play High Tide.

    Tier 1:
    - Rest in Peace: Best sideboard card because it shuts down Veteran Explorer, Cabal Therapy, Academy Rector, Recurring Nightmare, etc. In fact, some Nic Fit pilot even sideboard many of their grave strategies against D&T and Stoneblade in anticipation for Rest in Peace.

    Tier 2:
    - Pithing Needle and Phyrexian Revoker: Stop Pernicious Deed, Thrun, the Last Troll, Deathrite Shaman, Sensei's Divining Top, and their planeswalkers. Stopping Sensei's Diving Top early on may be vital because, unsurprisingly, they have terrible top decks. Mid-game, it is usually appropriate to preempt Pernicious Deed unless their is a much urgent target on the field.
    - Krosan Grip: Split Second is really helpful against Pernicious Deed compared to the other enchantment removal cards. It also helps against some of their powerful enchantments like Recurring Nightmare, Moat, and Omniscience. It can also destroy Sensei's Diving Top if warranted.
    - Boartusk Liege: This card is great against Jund Variants because unlike Goblin Chieftain, it can survive from Pyroclasm and Punishing Fire, making out x/2 creatures more resilient.
    - Aven Mindcensor: It can potentially stop fetch lands, Veteran Explorer, Green Sun's Zenith, Birthing Pod, Scapeshift, and other powerful strategies that requires searching the library.
    - Earwig Squad: Very good card to hamper their powerful toolbox, such as Moat and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite.
    - Sulfuric Vortex: Stops the Punishing Fire combo and their life gain, which some variants rely on to stabilize in the mid to late game.
    Last edited by L10; 08-21-2014 at 12:34 PM.

  15. #7775
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Thank you for your elaborate overview. I will hotlink your posting in the OP in the paragraph about MUs and side boarding. Which cards would you see as tier1 and tier2 side board cards in this MU?
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  16. #7776

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Rest In Peace has pretty much been my go to strategy, but invariably it is abrupt decayed after a turn or 2. I almost wonder if Leyline might be the better option -- on the other hand, it seems hard to justify boarding anything specifically for nic fit because it's a fairly small part of the overall meta.

  17. #7777

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    After taking a break from Legacy with the switch to V4, I have been back playing quite a bit in the 2mans and the 8 PM dailies. I was able to win some, but over nothing crazy. I feel most games I win my opponents deck stumbles, or I earn them with some unknown tech and synergies. There are rarely the 'free wins' where my deck just thrashes my opponent. That is mostly because of SFM, DRS, and AD. I am just going to type some stuff I am thinking about various topics.

    The Decline of Goblins - Here is what I think the biggest problems Goblins face in order of importance.

    1) Hands that are good against Delver or DRS decks are often unkeepable or auto loses against combo decks. I am in the rare minority where I think combo isnt that bad. Belcher/Oops all Spells are miserable matchups. Omniscience/ Tendrils + Empty/Reanimator are bad, Sneak and Show is pretty even, and traditional storm/High Tide I believe are favorable. The thing is you are often getting wrenched game one, so you need to 2-0 your opponent. That is the problem. In smaller tournaments, you actually know often enough what you are playing against. So you should mulligan hyper aggressive. No hand without a Lackey or Instigator ( or Thalia if you have that in the mb) are even keep-able. Thats why I so often dismiss these 4 rounds reports, people mulligan and play differently when they know the match ups before hand.

    Unfortunately there is no way to fix this issue with our list, and traditionally has always been a problem. However with the addition of Thalia, I believe Goblins can put up much better results, but that comes at a heavy cost. We have to either 1) Ignore combo match ups or 2) Have a very heavy Combo SB to 2-0 your opponent post board. A few Thalias alone is not enough, so you often need to dedicate 6-8 slots to those matchups.

    2) Lackey is not a particularly good magic card on the draw. If you look at my win rate on the play vs on the draw, I imagine it is a huge difference. So when people say " variance really hurts goblins," but can't really say why, it is often because of Goblin Lackey. I have started cutting 1-2 Lackeys every game on the draw against non combo decks, added Pendelhavens to make them better, and have bombs like Pyrokinesis to force them through, but they all come at a cost. Your SB space is already limited due to our storm match-up, so Lackey stinking is really stretching it thin. You could look to run Goblin Chieftains and they do work sometimes. But when they don't work, its glorious, often losing the game on the spot when you attack get your chieftain ADed and Lackey eaten. I am down to running 2 chieftains, as he often is a poor draw and interacts poorly with Pendelhaven.

    I have tried cutting Lackey, but you need to replace it with something, anything else. You have to have some one drops. Jamming Moxes, does nothing, literally nothing to solve this problem. It makes your mulligans backbreaking, so I guess there's that. I would recommend Cabal Therapy, and have a list which runs them. Even though the list is pretty mediocre, it just reminds me that it is an extremely strong card.

    3) Our one drops scale extremely poorly. A turn 1 Aether Vial is an extremely strong play, but what about a turn 3, or even turn 5. Our collection of one drops are almost comically bad later in the game when compared to BS, DRS, SDT, STP, Ponder. I mean, you can look at D&T or Folk and say, they have the same issues, and while that is true, we have 8 bad draws, to there 4. Its much easier to get punished.

    Quick Thoughts about Card Choices-

    1) Chrome Mox. I was brewing random Goblin lists, and I was never really sure if I should be the control deck or the beat down. I finally get it. With my original list, I was almost never the beat down, but in these games I didn't know what I should be doing. I was thinking, maybe Mox is what I should be doing. I have a strong feeling that came from inexperience and lack of knowledge with the deck. When in doubt, just smash I guess.

    2) Grezno, Dungeon Warden. I have a feeling if this card was Red Red X he would be a 2-3 of in basically all my lists. Being multicolored is a massive massive downgrade. That being said, it scales extremely well, single handledly can beat Engineered Plague, and helps smooth out your already below average 2s. He isn't really what we are looking for, but helps patch enough holes, that I am rarely unhappy to draw him. I have been running 1, and reasonably happy. In my other solidly black/red list, he was actually much more impressive then I thought, and went up to 3. Not running a single black source is awkward, but as a one of, I don't mind.

    3) Pendelhaven. When its bad, you often don't notice it. When its good, its game breaking. Its worth checking out, and would not run less than 1 in any Instigator build.

    SB

    1) Spirit of the Labryinth. So we need help in the combo match-up. I don't think Thalia and blasts are quite enough. I like Spirit as the 2nd 'hatebear' of choice. I think its better than Canonist at this point. It is actually good against Sneak and Show, Reanimator, Omniseince, Tezzeret, and much more versatile. You can bring it in for a number of random matches. Canonist is just much much more narrow.

    2) Moon Effects. I think death blade might be our worst matchup. Right there with Belcher. Why is it so bad? They usually run 4 of DRS, SFM, TNN. Geeez. Ohh and they run Jitte, Batterskull, Targeted discard, and postboard wrath effects like Zealous Persecution. So how do you win, well they stumble, and you can win. You can run something like Mirror entity, or you can cheese them. Moon effects wreck that deck. They have proven to be very effective against both the BUG and ESPER lists, as they have cut down on basics because of DRS, so they have the potential to be game ending.

    I was going to discuss a lot of match-ups, maybe another time. Hopefully you find this rambling to be somewhat entertaining or valuable. Let me know if you want to talk about something in particular.

  18. #7778
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    This deck needs new printed cards that are slightly playable. Deck tunning might give you 5% against some deck, while losing to any deck packing Stoneforge Mystic (which is pretty much 35% of decks).

    Our matchup against any fair deck is a hell of a grind, and this deck loses to pretty much any combo.

    The last two cards that have had ANY impact on this deck, if so, are Cavern of Souls and Krenko, which are good, but didn't solve any problems. Goblins never cared about countermagic as long as Goblin Ringleader isn't the target. Krenko is good, but we already have good fatties in SGC and Kiki Jiki.

    This deck needs a 2/1 Lackey effect for R, or Goblin-shaped artifact destruction at 1R top, or even something like Eidolon of the Great Revel in Goblin-shape as well.

    I wouldn't be sad if we had something like: R, 2/2, when this thing connects, sacrifice it and put a goblin card from your hand into play.
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  19. #7779

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    @Gobo, I updated my previous post. I hope I am thorough enough.

    @mrblueduck, regarding to Grezno, from my testing, I find the card too counter-productive with Goblin Ringleader. Also, sometimes I will whiff a Tarfire or Gempalm Incinerator, which may be annoying. Was this not an issue for you?

    Goblins never cared about countermagic as long as Goblin Ringleader isn't the target.
    I am pretty sure that Goblins, traditionally, never cared about counter magic because we can cheat our stuff in with Goblin Lackey or Aether Vial, and that Gempalm Incinerator is immune to traditional counter magic, not that we don't actually care about counter magic. Both Goblin Lackey and Aether Vial has gotten weaker now and our reliance on Tarfire actually makes our deck more susceptible to counter magic. Regardless, I did actually cut all Cavern of Souls on my mono-red builds. There is nothing I hate more than a Turn 1 Lackey with Cavern of Souls but can't find a Mountain for Tarfire or Gempalm Incinerator. Or if on draw, the opponent has Deathrite Shaman in the open, and I open with a Cavern of Souls + Goblin Lackey, and my opponent proceeds to Wasteland my Cavern of Souls and use it for mana with Deathrite Shaman. I think I'd rather have a more resilient mana base, especially when not facing against a blue deck.

  20. #7780
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by mrblueduck View Post
    After taking a break from Legacy with the switch to V4, I have been back playing quite a bit in the 2mans and the 8 PM dailies. I was able to win some, but over nothing crazy. I feel most games I win my opponents deck stumbles, or I earn them with some unknown tech and synergies. There are rarely the 'free wins' where my deck just thrashes my opponent. That is mostly because of SFM, DRS, and AD. I am just going to type some stuff I am thinking about various topics. -I agree here. I used to be able to control opponents with Waste, port and removal. Now the control route isn't effective, runnig Ports is a liability, and most of my wins in recent memory are due to my opponent's misfortune rather than my skill

    The Decline of Goblins - Here is what I think the biggest problems Goblins face in order of importance.

    1) Hands that are good against Delver or DRS decks are often unkeepable or auto loses against combo decks. -And the other way around! I am in the rare minority where I think combo isnt that bad. Belcher/Oops all Spells are miserable matchups. Omniscience/ Tendrils + Empty/Reanimator are bad, Sneak and Show is pretty even, and traditional storm/High Tide I believe are favorable. The thing is you are often getting wrenched game one, so you need to 2-0 your opponent. That is the problem. In smaller tournaments, you actually know often enough what you are playing against. So you should mulligan hyper aggressive. No hand without a Lackey or Instigator ( or Thalia if you have that in the mb) are even keep-able. Thats why I so often dismiss these 4 rounds reports, people mulligan and play differently when they know the match ups before hand.

    Unfortunately there is no way to fix this issue with our list, and traditionally has always been a problem. However with the addition of Thalia, I believe Goblins can put up much better results, but that comes at a heavy cost. We have to either 1) Ignore combo match ups or 2) Have a very heavy Combo SB to 2-0 your opponent post board. A few Thalias alone is not enough, so you often need to dedicate 6-8 slots to those matchups.

    2) Lackey is not a particularly good magic card on the draw. If you look at my win rate on the play vs on the draw, I imagine it is a huge difference. So when people say " variance really hurts goblins," but can't really say why, it is often because of Goblin Lackey. I have started cutting 1-2 Lackeys every game on the draw against non combo decks, added Pendelhavens to make them better, and have bombs like Pyrokinesis to force them through, but they all come at a cost. Your SB space is already limited due to our storm match-up, so Lackey stinking is really stretching it thin. You could look to run Goblin Chieftains and they do work sometimes. But when they don't work, its glorious, often losing the game on the spot when you attack get your chieftain ADed and Lackey eaten. I am down to running 2 chieftains, as he often is a poor draw and interacts poorly with Pendelhaven.

    I have tried cutting Lackey, but you need to replace it with something, anything else. You have to have some one drops. Jamming Moxes, does nothing, literally nothing to solve this problem. It makes your mulligans backbreaking, so I guess there's that. I would recommend Cabal Therapy, and have a list which runs them. Even though the list is pretty mediocre, it just reminds me that it is an extremely strong card. -I too have been looking for playable 1-drops to increase the T1 consistency of the deck. The only two that seem to make any sense are Discard and Sensei's Divining Top. But discard gives us another terrible mid-late game card (like Lackey and Vial) and Top isn't terribly effective in out mana-hungry deck.

    3) Our one drops scale extremely poorly. A turn 1 Aether Vial is an extremely strong play, but what about a turn 3, or even turn 5. Our collection of one drops are almost comically bad later in the game when compared to BS, DRS, SDT, STP, Ponder. I mean, you can look at D&T or Folk and say, they have the same issues, and while that is true, we have 8 bad draws, to there 4. Its much easier to get punished.

    Quick Thoughts about Card Choices-

    1) Chrome Mox. I was brewing random Goblin lists, and I was never really sure if I should be the control deck or the beat down. I finally get it. With my original list, I was almost never the beat down, but in these games I didn't know what I should be doing. I was thinking, maybe Mox is what I should be doing. I have a strong feeling that came from inexperience and lack of knowledge with the deck. When in doubt, just smash I guess. -I have found Chrome Mox to be entirely OK, but it doesn't make the deck consistently better since Chrome Mox itself is such an inconsistent card. But, since we can't lower the curve, playing accelerators seems like the most obvious route to regaining power parity in the format. What sucks though is there is no way to do it without giving up CA (Skirk Prospector, Mox, lotus Petal) since we really need RR.

    2) Grezno, Dungeon Warden. I have a feeling if this card was Red Red X he would be a 2-3 of in basically all my lists. Being multicolored is a massive massive downgrade. That being said, it scales extremely well, single handledly can beat Engineered Plague, and helps smooth out your already below average 2s. He isn't really what we are looking for, but helps patch enough holes, that I am rarely unhappy to draw him. I have been running 1, and reasonably happy. In my other solidly black/red list, he was actually much more impressive then I thought, and went up to 3. Not running a single black source is awkward, but as a one of, I don't mind. -I've not played any real games with Grenzo. He seemed underwhelming in playtesting, and I hate that he's RB because i want to play Rw.

    3) Pendelhaven. When its bad, you often don't notice it. When its good, its game breaking. Its worth checking out, and would not run less than 1 in any Instigator build.

    SB

    1) Spirit of the Labryinth. So we need help in the combo match-up. I don't think Thalia and blasts are quite enough. I like Spirit as the 2nd 'hatebear' of choice. I think its better than Canonist at this point. It is actually good against Sneak and Show, Reanimator, Omniseince, Tezzeret, and much more versatile. You can bring it in for a number of random matches. Canonist is just much much more narrow. - I played some SB Spirits once, and they weren't terrible, but Thalia would have been better. It sucks that all these hatebears are so much better suited for DnT.

    2) Moon Effects. I think death blade might be our worst matchup. Right there with Belcher. Why is it so bad? They usually run 4 of DRS, SFM, TNN. Geeez. Ohh and they run Jitte, Batterskull, Targeted discard, and postboard wrath effects like Zealous Persecution. So how do you win, well they stumble, and you can win. You can run something like Mirror entity, or you can cheese them. Moon effects wreck that deck. They have proven to be very effective against both the BUG and ESPER lists, as they have cut down on basics because of DRS, so they have the potential to be game ending. - 3CMC Moon effects have always been too slow, and sometimes with DRS they don't even matter. Plus, monoR isn't that great, and losing a splash is less than ideal.

    I was going to discuss a lot of match-ups, maybe another time. Hopefully you find this rambling to be somewhat entertaining or valuable. Let me know if you want to talk about something in particular.
    Good times.

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