Del
Last edited by OlegtheSuper; 10-27-2014 at 02:03 AM.
Attended a local GPT in Toronto this weekend with practically GL's list:
MANA [22]
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Wasteland
3 Chrome Mox
2 Pendelhaven
10 Mountain
CORE [32]
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Tarfire
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
OTHERS [6]
2 Goblin Warchief
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Sideboard [15]
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Boartusk Liege
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Volcanic Fallout
Went 2-3 with some good experiences with the deck:
Round 1: Burn (0-2)
Game 1: Kept a hand of Chrome Mox, Cavern of Souls, Chieftain, Chieftain, Warchief, Tarfire, Ringleader.
Was a mistake to keep such a land - couldn't get to 3rd land until the 3rd or 4th turn. By then, I burned to the oblivion.
Game 2: I boarded in 4 Chalice of the Void. Didn't draw any. Kept a hand of Lackey, Mountain, Wasteland, Piledriver, Chieftain, Aether Vial, Ringleader.
Lackey got Bolted right when he landed. Chieftain and Piledriver were scorched with Searing Bloods while smashing face with Goblin Guide and finished off with a Price of Progress.
Round 2: BG Depths (2-1)
Game 1: hardcasted Stingscourger while being beaten in the face by Lackey/Instigator and dropping 4 Ringleaders in the game gets there
Game 2: Sided in 2 Pithing Needles. Named Hexmage but Thespian Sage removed the counters and unleashed the Marit Lage end of my turn.
Game 3: Turn 2, Dark Depths was met with a Wasteland - highlight of the match.
Round 3: UWR Delver (2-0)
Game 1: Lackey/Instigator dropped a multitude of 2-3 Ringleaders
Game 2: Batterskull was met with a Tuktuk Scrapper when we both ran out of gas. Hand was quickly refilled with consecutive Ringleaders
Round 4: UG Infect (0-2)
The gentleman was running a budget UG Infect deck (no Hierarches, ran Giant Growth, Unstable Mutations, Rancors, and Necropede. Eventually, he trounced D/T, Miracles, myself and others to top 4. Played 3 casual games afterwards and Goblins just overran him completely. Perhaps, it was just a pair of bad luck games for me? Anyone with a lot of experience with this match up?
Game 1: Had Lackey/Instigator/Chieftain while Tarfiring most of his creatures but all it took was 3rd turn for the Inkmoth + Giant Growth + Berserk.
Game 2: Kept a disruptive hand: Lackey, 2 Tarfires, Wasteland, 2 Mountains, Ringleader. A first turn Blightsteel Agent was met with Tarfire. Second turn, his only inkmoth was Wasted. Last Tarfire took care of his Glistener elf. He then had a Necropede to keep Lackey in check. The epic fail of the night: My Ringleader revealed 2 Cavern of Souls, Aether Vial, and a Chrome Mox. Eventually I had no gas and he killed me with Necropede + 2 Rancors + Unstable Mutations
Round 5: Sneak and Show (1-2)
Game 1: After the first few turns, I had 2 Chieftains and a Warchief. He cast SnT and showed an Emrakul and I, a Kiki-Jiki. It was futile as Annihilator 6 got there next turn when he swung, leaving me with only 1 permanent.
Game 2: Chalice of the Void @ 1 stops his digging for good and eventually gets chomped down by a horde of green men.
Game 3: Kept a decent hand of 7 cards but no Chalice to save me this time and was met with Emrakul shortly into the 3rd game.
Notes:
- Felt I had a few games with very questionable hand keeps i.e. 2 lands + lords. Caught myself waiting for the 3rd land way too often.
- May try a Black splash to add the Earwig Squads/Cabal Therapies/ + extra removal in Warren Weirding
- Thinking of bringing this to GP NJ. What's everyone's thoughts on Gobs vs. Treasure Cruise decks? Unfortunately, only 1 matchup of the day ran the smooze cruise.
Thank you for the report!
Some comments:
What did you board out in exchange for Chalice of the Void? My first intention would be to cut Aether Vials, because they are to slow. We are losing this MU mainly against early Goblin Guides, the actual burnspells are usually not enough, since some of them are used on our creatures. So my goal would be to keep cards in the MD that can burn/block their creatures. Vial does not do that.Originally Posted by P-AiR
First of all: you can easily lose to that kind of burst-damage you witnessed in game 1. There are few things to keep in mind when playing against green pump-spell-stompy decks like this one.
(1) Use your removal with sorcery speed. If they want to save their Ichoclaw Myr from your Tarfire they have to spend a green pump-spell (of which they have plents). However, if they use them in your turn (like in response to your Tarfire) they wont be using it to pump that Myr on their turn, when that creature in in the middle of attacking you. The latter is a lose-lose situation for you: they keep their creature AND they transform their pumpspell into poison-counters.
(2) Block them whenever possible. They got about 12 creatures, you have around 30.
(3) Bring in Chalice and dare to take mulligan. They are a combo deck, treat them as such.
That one is just tough luck. The MU is as close to 50/50 as it could be, so there is no shame losing it. That sounds like you did what you could.
I didn't test against "Treasure Cruise decks" yet, but I think the card will affect our MU-%s against these decks to varying degrees. E.g. I think that classic Canadian Threshold lists (which already were quite hard to beat) will become even less favorable MUs when they are packing Treasure Cruise, whereas this card should have hardly any impact on our %s against the already favorable UR Delver matchup. It's an exciting question though and I'm looking forward to see which deck can use that card's potential the best. In general I would say that it is now even more important to apply preassure early on, so that your opponent does not have the resources (time/lifepoints, mana) to cast Treasure Cruise.
One last question:
Why did you run Volcanic Fallout in your SB? My guess is that you wanted to prepare for UR Delver - in that case I'd suggest more Sharpshooters and/or Electrickery instead.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
If you don't mind, could you share your current build and sideboard?
Very apt observations and suggestions, thanks GoboLord!
I sided out Tarfire as I figured I'd go with the speed plan: pumping out creatures ASAP as that would yield a higher return then dealing 2 damage to them. However, in retrospect, Tarfiring his Goblin Guide would've saved myself a turn or two.What did you board out in exchange for Chalice of the Void? My first intention would be to cut Aether Vials, because they are to slow. We are losing this MU mainly against early Goblin Guides, the actual burnspells are usually not enough, since some of them are used on our creatures. So my goal would be to keep cards in the MD that can burn/block their creatures. Vial does not do that.
Great suggestion - make them utilize their pump spells on my turn to keep their threats on the table. Will keep this in mind the next time.First of all: you can easily lose to that kind of burst-damage you witnessed in game 1. There are few things to keep in mind when playing against green pump-spell-stompy decks like this one.
(1) Use your removal with sorcery speed. If they want to save their Ichoclaw Myr from your Tarfire they have to spend a green pump-spell (of which they have plents). However, if they use them in your turn (like in response to your Tarfire) they wont be using it to pump that Myr on their turn, when that creature in in the middle of attacking you. The latter is a lose-lose situation for you: they keep their creature AND they transform their pumpspell into poison-counters.
(2) Block them whenever possible. They got about 12 creatures, you have around 30.
(3) Bring in Chalice and dare to take mulligan. They are a combo deck, treat them as such.
Thanks! Feels like I need to work on judging how aggressively I should sideboard against certain match ups i.e. combo. It's simply too alluring to see a hand of 3 mana sources + a handful of goblins (that could be explosive in the first few turns). It's the mentality of putting them on a clock banking on the fact they may not have their combo pieces.That one is just tough luck. The MU is as close to 50/50 as it could be, so there is no shame losing it. That sounds like you did what you could.
That's a great mentality to have. That was my gameplan against UWR delver. By the time, he was able to draw up to a hand size of 5 with T'Cruise, I was already applying too much pressure for him to come back from.I didn't test against "Treasure Cruise decks" yet, but I think the card will affect our MU-%s against these decks to varying degrees. E.g. I think that classic Canadian Threshold lists (which already were quite hard to beat) will become even less favorable MUs when they are packing Treasure Cruise, whereas this card should have hardly any impact on our %s against the already favorable UR Delver matchup. It's an exciting question though and I'm looking forward to see which deck can use that card's potential the best. In general I would say that it is now even more important to apply preassure early on, so that your opponent does not have the resources (time/lifepoints, mana) to cast Treasure Cruise.
I had chosen Volcanic as my last slot to answer UR Delver, Elves, and Death and Taxes. The uncounterability seemed too attractive to pass up. Since it was a 1-of, I wanted it to stick and go through if I ever drew it in a match rather than have it countered. In retrospect, siding in the 2nd Sharpshooter should've done the trick.One last question:
Why did you run Volcanic Fallout in your SB? My guess is that you wanted to prepare for UR Delver - in that case I'd suggest more Sharpshooters and/or Electrickery instead.
Appreciate the quick and helpful feedback. Will definitely continue testing this deck leading up to GP NJ.
My own question: how's Goblin Settler been for you (GoboLord) and the rest of those that are running in the SB/Main/Both.
I personally found Settler good - so good that I'm really tempted to buy a 2nd copy. However, my impression should not be overrated since I have played only very few games with it and bought it more or less on advice of mrblueduck and cooljets. Resolved it once against Sneak Show (out of a WInstigator + Matron) and it won me the game which no other card would have been able to at that moment. Also I landed Settler + KikiJiki against Miracles, but that MU is already favorable and I think any other Goblin accompanied by KJ would have done the same job at the time.
The general impression of Settler here on this board is positive. So far I have not seen/heard anyone being disappointed or regretting having bought it. So that might give you a hint.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
Hello Everyone! I played a fairly stock Rb Winstigator list this past weekend at the Legacy Champs event at Eternal Weekend. I played a total of 12 matches (10 in the main event and 2 in a win-a-box). It was my first time playing with it in a large event and I had an absolute blast! I do not have time to write up a report now but plan to have something posted later this week. Thanks!
Good to hear! What was your record?
How did you fare this weekend jrw1985? You were planning to play the Green Men right?
I did very poorly. 1-3 drop. The sole win came against a player who clearly hadn't really learned how to play Magic yet. So, yeah, it was pretty bad.
Here's the list I ran.
MonoR Goblins
4 Vial
4 Lackey
4 Piledriver
4 Gempalm
4 Warchief
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
2 Mogg War Marshal
2 Tarfire
1 Stingscourger
1 Krenko
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tuktuk
2 Pyrokinesis
3 Wasteland
3 Port
4 Cavern
12 Mountain
SB
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Stingscourger
1 Grafdigger's Cage
Nothing too crazy in the build. I kinda missed having the interactivity Port provided, so I threw a few back in, but I still liked having 1/5th of my deck being basic mountains.
R1 - Solidarity
This deck is just Instant speed High Tide.
G1 I have T1 Cavern into Lackey. I put on a a fast clock and attack for lethal. He casts High Tide to go off and kill, but I have a Port in play and tap down an island in response to High Tide. He could not account for that and died.
G2 He FoW'd my T1 play, the went off a few turns later.
G3 I was in a good position with a few Ports. I cast a Thorn pre-combat to force his hand. He cantripped and cantripped and Meditated and FoW'd my Thorn. I then attacked, but not for lethal. On his turn he did some shit. On my turn I attacked for lethal and he went off and won. In the midst of him going off it occurred to me that he never skipped his turn from Meditate. I called a judge, the judge gave him a warning for failure to maintain the game state, and he won. Even though he lost that game. And that match. I've seen this happen sooooo many times to people playing Meditate and playing against Meditate. It is super lame that it only results in a warning and not a game loss. Oh well. What really annoys me though is that I outplayed my opponent (G1 Port) and I was demonstratively better at Magic than him (remembering the Meditate turn skip, albeit too late G3) and still lost the round. That, and the fact that I actually won that game. Fucking Meditate.
R2 - Reanimator
G1 I start with Vial. He Careful Studies into Elesh Norn. I tick up Vial. He Reanimates Elesh. I tick up Vial. He swings for 4. At the end step I Vial in Stingscourger and bounce Elesh. I start building my board on my turn. He plays SnT on his. GG. I can't even be mad about this one. He had the god draw.
G2 I kept a mediocre 7 with a Stingscourger. He quickly played an Iona naming Red. Then an Elesh Norn. GG.
At least that round was quick!
R3 - A gimme round against a guy who didn't really know what was going on and his deck was awful. I actually lost G2 because I kept a terrible hand knowing I would still have a good chance. I won it in 3.
R4 - MUD Metalworker.
G1 he plays a MEtalworker and Lightning Greaves and gets silly real quick. L
G2 He is all set to go off with Metalworker and Goblin Welder, but I use spot removal like a champ to keep him from being able to explode and I overrun him with Goblins.
G3 I keep a slow hand with Lackey and Tuktuk. He plays a Metalworker and Greaves and gets me quickly. Woof. L
1-3
So that obviously kinda sucked.
MonoR has not been great for me. It is just too slow and linear. Having B splash seems pretty good, not just because of WW but also because Earwig Squad seems pretty relevant now. In a format where every Delver deck plays 12 creatures taking out 3 win cons seems pretty reasonable. Plus B opens up Warren Weirding too. Tuktuk was obnoxious. Having 3 artifact killing Goblins SHOULD be great against a MUD deck. But he isn't because of the cmc. Gempalm also under-performed. The list is just so tight now, and Gempalm is too slow to be good against most of the decks in the format, it seems. It's probably still worth it as a 1 or 2-of, but 4 seemed like overkill. I am a huge Gempalm fan, I think it is a beautiful card and I love how it interacts and plays, but it is very slow and punishes you in combo games.
I'm going to go throw together a Rb deck. I'll let you all know how it goes tomorrow.
Yep, played him a few times, and he is really useful. It had been a "dead card" once or twice against some combo decks, but any 4CMC goblin would have been a dead card at that point.
FWIW, I've been testing a 1-of Settler and love it. It feels so powerful, especially when you follow up with Kiki. One of my favorite lines when you're not under a ton of pressure is to matron for kiki, then copy matron for settler. It works best when you have a vial and/or lackey to do this over one or two turns. You get to poke for 2-3 a turn while your opponent starts panicking about the lock you're about to set up too.
I've considered a second copy (because t1 lackey into t2 settler is bananas), but I might be a little over-hyped on this card. More testing required, but I highly doubt I'll be removing the one copy at least.
Also hi mtgthesource. I usually post over at reddit but I've been lurking here over the past few months.
Hey P-Air!
I just read your GPT report. If your board state in game 1 vs Sneakshow was exactly like you wrote you should have won there. With 2 Chieftains and a Warchief, a Kiki-Jiki off his S&T would give you TWO additional Chieftains for your next turn. One in his endstep, the other one in your turn. So just the Chieftains would be at 20 dmg, 26 with the single Warchief.
Kiki-Jiki makes you sacrifice the token at the beginning of the next end step. The trick is to use him during the opponent's end step so both token stay until the beginning of your end step.
If I misread something please tell me but it looks like you don't yet know about this one. But I felt like you should if you want to stick with your list
Wizards hates us. They're going after our Vials, Lacky's and Instigators!
http://mythicspoiler.com/c14/cards/c...entpriest.html
Greetings from Melbourne, Australia.
I went to a local legacy night the other week. The turn-out was about 20 people which is pretty good by Australian legacy standards.
Here's the list I used:
4- Aether Vial
4- Goblin Lackey
4- Goblin Matron
4- Goblin Ringleader
4- Goblin Warchief
2- Goblin Piledriver
3- Gempalm Incinerator
3- Goblin Chieftain
1- Tuktuk Scrapper
3- Mogg War Marshal
2- Siege Gang Commander
3 Tarfire
7 Fetches
6 Mountains
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
2 Rishadan Port
Round 1- RUG Delver
Let's call this guy Tom.
Game 1:I wasteland him twice and he draws no more colour providing land. The goblin beats sure are small but they are steady and I win before he can get moving again.
Game 2: I have no idea what he's playing (all I saw in game 1 was a Delver of Secrets, a Volcanic Island and Wasteland), and so I decide to shuffle my entire sideboard in, and then promptly remove it.
I keep a hand of vial, mogg war marshal, lands and some other goblins.
Mr Delver gets going quickly, and before I know it I'm staring down young pyromancer and friends as well as about 165 tarmogoyfs.
I chump as best as I can but I'm dead rather quickly.
Game 3: I put in some relic of progenitus' and a sharpshooter and I take out the tarfires.
My opening hand involves a lackey, siege gang, piledriver, ringleader and lands. I thank the baby jesus for the gifts my opponent is about to receive.
Unfortunately, rough/tumble is a card and my lackey, piledriver and siege gang + friends are all mercilessly killed.
I refuel quick enough with matrons and ringleaders and kill all his threats while smacking him around with a piledriver.
Matches: 1-0.
Round 2: 4 colour Delver.
Let's call this guy Josh.
Game 1: We do the old 1 for 1 trade and he uses a few discard spells on me at the start, but like the awesome player I am I draw some wastelands and all of a sudden he has no useable lands. Ringleaders keep drawing me into gas and I push through for lethal.
Game 2: I don't remember this game very much, but I think I mulliganed and my hand was torn up very quickly. I die quicker than I know it.
Game 3: If I'm honest, I got lucky in this game; after we traded around 1 for 1, Josh flooded out. This is saying a lot in a deck that runs like 17 land.
I get a little concerned when he has 2 deathrite's gaining him life and all I have are a pair of 1/1 goblin tokens, but I draw a chieftain and push through his defences.
Matches: 2-0.
Round 3- Punishing Jund
Let's call this guy Fred.
I've played Fred before so I know he's on the whole punishing jund thing.
Game 1:
I decide that a mull to 5 is in my best interests. Hymn to Tourach comes my way and I die via goyfs for the 2nd time in one day.
Game 2:
This time I don't have to mulligan and I get a decent start, playing multiple dudes and drawing heaps of cards to make up for the Liliana +1s. When he's at 4 life he gains control and then he does the old punishing fires/grove of the burnwillows and I die very slowly. During my slow descent into death I think about the important things in life such as Ferrari's dismal F1 performance this year and what kebab store I shall visit after this tournament is over.
Here is a picture of the life-totals from this match: http://imgur.com/p8e6Q0O
My life totals are on the right side, in case it wasn't obvious.
After the match, I asked Fred if there was anything I should know about his deck and what I could have done to beat it.
He rolls his eyes at me so hard that his eyeballs nearly come out of their sockets. Nice guy for sure.
Matches: 2-1.
This put me into 3rd place, and as no one could be bothered playing finals, I net a cool $20 in store credit.
Thoughts on the deck: Piledriver is fucking fantastic. I've moved up to 3, taking out a chieftain. Mogg War Marshal, whilst a great chumper, is probably better at 2 copies. I've put a tin-street hooligan in instead to replace a copy of the MWM. As a result I'm also playing a taiga now and I've upped the Port count to 3.
The "May" clause on Vial, Lackey and Winnie makes this card a little annoying, but not too crazy. For instance, you activate Vial, they flash in Priest, you just don't put anything in play. Just kill the priest and carry on as usual.
They put me on a feature match stream on Wednesday at the Mead Hall. Link is below and my match starts at 2:29. It was for funsies and didn't count. I beat Jason 2-0 in tournament play, then they asked us to play a feature match real quick before the last round.
http://www.twitch.tv/themeadery/b/583284277
The match was a little sloppy. I could have ordered my lands better G1. G2 my opponent forgot to return 2 cards from his Brainstorm, then G3 forgot to draw off Preordain. We were just trying to play fast and get the game done sooner.
You will notice I played Rb with Frogtosser Banneret. Frogtosser was pretty good that night. I really like that he can make Ringleader castable T3. I also like how the B splash is supported by Auntie's Hovel, so I could run 11 R/B lands between Badlands, Hovel and fetches, so basically 1/5th of my deck could produce R or B mana.
My list-
3 Waste
3 Port
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Badlands
4 Aunties Hovel
1 Mountain
2 Fetch
4 Vial
4 Lackey
3 Piledriver
2 Frogtosser Banneret
4 Warchief
3 Matron
4 Ringleader
3 Earwig Squad
2 Tarfire
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Warren Weirding
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Mogg War Marshal
1 Stingscourger
SB
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Grafdigger's Cage
R1 - Leylines
G1 He attacks me with a bunch of Leylines and I die. Awesome!
G2&3 Thorn & Waste & Port do work and I win.
1-0
R2 - BUGW
I lose both games. I kept a slow hand G1 and had mana troubles G2 that got worse once he Wasted me.
1-1
R3 - OmniTell
G1 Port gets there
G2 Chalice @ 1 + Thorn x2 makes the game pretty impossible for Jason.
2-1
R4 - BUG Aluren
G1 he kills me with a swarm of Shardless Agents and Baleful Strix.
G2 I land an Earwig Squad to remove a crucial combo piece and win from there.
G3 I have a lousy hand of lands, lands, lands, but it has Vial and Pyrokinesis. He plays a Deathrite. I pyro it, removing Lackey, and play Vial. Then I use Port and Waste to control him mana base and get some beats going for the win.
3-1
Port did work, work, work all day long. It was the MVP of the night I was very happy playing with it again. I really liked Frogtosser, and will probably play 3 in the future. I could cut Warchief down to 3. I should be playing 4 Matron and regretted cutting one many times. I like having the variety or removal that I did. I don't think 3 maindeck Earwig squad is correct. Maybe 1 squad, then a 1-1 split of SGC and Krenko. I don't know if Relic is needed in the sideboard in the current environment since Goyf seems weak at the moment. Maybe Earwigs will replace Relic.
We've got new thalia
C-cleric, t-thalia
1)enchantress
C<Т
2)reanimator
C>Т
3)mono red and ur S&T
C>Т
4)dredge
C>Т
5)manaless dredge
C>=Т
6)tin fin
C>Т
7)bekcher
C<Т
8)АNТ и ТЕS
C<Т
9)oops all spells
C>Т
10)omnitell
C<Т
11)burn and ur burn
C<Т
12)hightide
C<Т
13)hivemind
C<Т
14)hyperginesis
C>Т
15)doomsday
C<Т
16) elf
C>T
17)bombardment
C>T
18)probant
C>T
Last edited by OlegtheSuper; 11-01-2014 at 04:29 AM.
Yeah she looks pretty insane. Sort of wrecks our own strategies but it's better than being emrakul'd or hoofed (though elves can still combo draw into hoof and hard cast).
And to think I was about to cut white. This is so tough I don't know whether to keep my ridiculous 4 color build or cut green or black.
That new Cleric isn't going to make as much of an impact as Thalia. First off, it does nothing against low cmc delver/DRS/SFM/Goyf decks, whereas Thalia could at least punish their 18 land builds. Secondly, in almost any scenario where the Cleric is good Thalia is too, because Thalia makes those cheating spells more difficult to cast. Thirdly, Thalia has more of an impact across the format against a greater variety of combo decks (at the same cmc as cleric). Lastly, decks that could run the Cleric have anti-synergies with it (DnT has Vial, Maverick has GSZ) that they don't have with Thalia. Lastly lastly the cleric is easier to play around than Thalia.
But the Cleric is a house against Zombardment.
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