@GoboLord....
What were your MUs this weekend? I have a feeling the format is currently rife with Prison decks which we're pretty strong against. Was that the case for you?
3 sharpshooters? no stingscourgers? I am just curious about how is your meta like.. is it for monastery mentor/young pyromancer?Originally Posted by GoboLord
(though i haven't tested scouts yet. they seem nice)
how would your side be in a field having 1-of-each deck?
Hey there fellow Chieftains,
I played a tourney yesterday and ended up winning the whole thing (5-1 after 6 rounds).
Here’s the list and a brief summary of the relevant interactions in each game:
MANA (23)
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Chrome Mox
2 Pendelhaven
2 Wasteland
1 Snow-Covered Mountains (placeholder for Ancient Tomb)
11 Mountain
CORE (28)
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Matron
4 Ringleader
3 Goblin Warchief
3 Tarfire
3 Subterranean Scout
Sideboard (15)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
Some cards choices might seem unconventional, so here is what I was thinking:
Tuktuk Scrapper: I chose to put 0 in MD and 1 in SB because in my meta there are few Blade decks. This configuration is not what I would usually recommend
Subterranean Scout: new cards need to be tested, and this guy is particularly promising as it has a relevant interaction with almost half of your creatures.
Sharpshooter: it had to be 3 copies in SB as I consider it (1) the second best card vs. Elves (the best being Pyrokinesis) and (2) the best answer against Young Pyromancer and Monastery Mentor. It’s an insanely powerful card that closes out games by itself….and sometimes with the help of 7 hastelords.
Bombs: not playing any Siege-Gangs, Krenkos or Kiki-Jikis, because usually resolving a Ringleader is “bomby” enough. Also Chieftain provides a lot of additional combat power.
R1: Tim with Omnitell (2-1)
G1 was quite uneventful. He couldn’t find his combo by turn 4 (or 5?) and was dead.
G2 took quite some time, as he resolved Young Pyromancer on turn 2. I answered with Chalice of the Void @1 on turn 2, which delayed the game a little more. I started casting 2 Lackey and a Vial through my Chalice, like 2 minutes after with him about how this situation would be handled if a judge was called. At some point Tim cast Electrickery for overload costs.
PUZZLE TIME#1: How does this interact with Chalice of the Void@1?
Later, Tim was at 5 life after my last attack and I had lethal damage on board for my next turn, so he had to combo me out on his turn. It is my 2nd mainphase, Tim holds 3 cards in his hand, had 2 lands tapped and 3 untapped. I myself hold on to a Chalice of the Void, a Trinisphere and a Wasteland in my hand, having 1 untapped land.
PUZZLE TIME#2:What cards did Tim hold (including the one he will draw on his turn) in order to win on the next turn?
PUZZLE TIME#3: What would you have done in my last turn?
In G3 I had a straight T4 kill, backed up by Trinisphere.
R2: Falk with bUrg Delver (2-0)
G1: Falk had to use a lot of resources to counter my Vial, Bolt my Lackey and block my Warren Instigator. At some point he was hellbent with on a DRS in play and I overwhelmed him.
G2: Falk put on a good race with 2 Delvers and 2 DRSs. I managed to Tarfire one Delver, and effectively make DRS useless with a Relic-activation that ate 20-ish cards. Just one turn before he drew into his Dig Through Time. Sorry, Bro.
R3: Sascha with RG Combo Lands (2-0)
In G1 I went first with Mountain and Lackey. Saschas first turn included Rishadan Port and Mox Diamond. On my turn I waited at my upkeep: nothing. Then on my mainphase I dropped Pendelhaven and I knew it was too late for Punishing Fire at that point. I attacked with Lackey, he fired off his P. Fire and I activated Pendehaven in response. It went downhills for him from that point onwards as Punishing Fire was never able to get online thanks to Pendelhaven.
PUZZLE TIME #4: Imagine the following situation. You play Pendelhaven from hand. Your opponent asks “What does it do? It’s the one that pumps creatures, right?”. You respond: “Yes, that’s the one.” Next you attack with Goblin Lackey, your opponent casts Punishing Fire at Lackey. You activate Pendelhaven to pump your creature. You opponent calls a judge, saying that you did not inform him correctly about the effects of Pendehaven (as he was unaware that it provides pumps on toughness as well). Is your opponent right?
In G2 He did some Gambling and also dropped that new Seismic Assault on turn 1. Relic ate his Punishing Fire and overall I had too many relevant targets in early turns - wasn’t able to keep up with that.
R4: Dennis with Junk (2-1 )
G1 he put up a considerable pile of creatures with 2 KotR, Scavening Ooze, Deathrites and Dark Confidants, backed up by Lili. Too much for me to handle. Made a misplay that mattered a lot, but I wouldnt go so far to say I could have won the game otherwise. With 1 creature on the board and a Vial @ 2, 3 lands in play I drew another Mountain. Instead of dropping that Mountain I kept it in my hand as I wanted to bait a targeted discard spell. Unfortunately he played Lili on his next turn, making me discard the mountain. On my next turn I drew into Ringleader, and felt super awful as I just discarded my 4th manasource AND had no chance but discarding Ringer to Lili next turn. Lessons learned: mana is important.
G2: I was way too fast. Too many Winstigators and Chieftains.
G3: He opened with Silvan Library out of Mox Diamond and something else. I opened with Vial, the Had Warren Instigator, Matron and Sub-Scout in my hand. Oh yeah, baby.
R5: Tim with Miracles (0-2)
Tim is a goblins player back whom I know basically ever since back when I started playing competitive Legacy. We talk about how our decks interact and he’s telling me that he has to find his singleton Entreat in time, as this is his only chance of winning. Well, he bought himself come considerable ampunt of time with 3 Termini and 4 Swords to Plowshares and ultimately won this game at 1 life. I made a mistake in that game as well, which turned out costing me the win: I attacked with Lackey and Warchief, holding Ringleader and a Tarfire in hand. At this point Warchief was way more relevant for me that Lackey, as he could catapult and cards directly into his face with haste. So, on my attack, Tim cast Snapcaster Mage, targeting Swords to Plowshares. I considered Tarfir-ing SnapMan before blockers were declared, but in this situation Tim would surely target Warchief with StoP. Wanting to keep my Warchief I let him declare blockers (he blocked Warchief) and then Tarfired his SnapMan, hoping he would remove Lackey with StoP. He didn’t. So I lost because I was this 1 damage short.
In G2 I had a opener with Moiuntain, Chrome Mox, Chalice, Winstigator, and 3 Hastelords.
PUZZLE TIME#5 What is your turn-1 play here and why?
R6: Markus with Infect (2-1 )
G1 Markus establishes 2 Hierarchs, and 1 Blighted Agent. On my turn, I drop an Pendelhaven, attack with Lackey, connect into Matron fetch a Tarfire and kill his Agent. Next turn Markus drops that Infect Elf and passes. I attack with Lackey, connect into Matron, fetching Tarfire, targeting his Elf – only this time he counters it. On my turn I chump block his Elf with Matron. Next turn I attack with Lackey, connecting again into Matron, fetching my third Tarfire and ultimately killing his Elf – both of us just had to laugh. I establish a board position of too many chump blockers and overwhelm him.
G2: I am able to deal with his Infect guys again, but he goes nuts with two Hierarchs and kills me with actual combat damage out of Become Immense + Berserk.
G3: I have a slow, but effective hand with Vial, 2 Sharpshooters and Chalice of the Void. Markus Manages to counter my Chalice. Later the first Sharpshooter comes in via Aether Vial at EOT. On my turn I drop, and resolve a second Chalice. Sharpshooters damage gets “countered” by Invigorate. The second Shooter does the trick though and the game is decided.
Conclusions
* unfortunately Subterranean Scout was a little shy on that day. I do remember imprinting him into Chrome Mox at least twice. I have to monitor its performance more closely. It feel awkward thought that, although it is a good solution to loads of tokens from Grixis Pyromancer, and green creature-walls of BUG and Junk, it is basically the first card I would board out against these deck with my current SB configuration.
* Sharpshooters are awesome
* I need to play more tightly, I make too many mistakes. I could have avoided 3/5 lost games just by playing better
* I am considering playing a 1-off bomb again. The list is very good at remaining in a dominant position, once you establish a favorable boardstate. However it does struggle to win when your opponent has both feed on the ground and is hiding behind 3+ creatures. The common choices are Krenko, SGC and Kiki-Jiki – for this end I would choose SGC, as Krenko and KJ do very little to get you back in the game once you fall behind. Also SGC does break free stalled board states.
Thank you for reading my report. You feedback on the PUZZLE TIMES is highly appreciated – so are any question regarding the list or the games.
Last edited by GoboLord; 09-22-2015 at 01:57 AM.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
Mulligan.
That hand is useless against Miracles.
Huh? Drop Chalice on 1 and lock out SDT, StP, Brainstorm, and Ponder. You'll (generally) naturally draw gas and if they don't literally Miracle off of the top your Winstigator and Hastelords kill them in a few turns. If they force the Chalice then /shrug
That's the best case scenario yes. If they FOW the chalice or even the Mox GG.
So... a 50 percent chance to autowin the game? If not my opponent Hymn to Tourachs themselves and then either the Winstigator resolves next turn or if god forbid they countered the Mox any land off the top gets you back into the game. That seems like a snap keep considering you basically win on the spot if they don't have Force.
Assuming Gobolord is on the play, the Miracles player only has a 40% chance of having FoW. I'd take those odds and jam that Chalice.
I agree.
To me, the point of contention is whether to slam a redundant haste-enabler or the Instigator under the Chrome Mox. Haste is worth it's weight in gold here. But I'd feel like such a chump whiffing on a Mountain. Sitting on RR. Staring at a hand of three drops.
I think it's fairly obvious you throw a lord under there. If you knew there was a land on top, maybe not? IDK. To me, it's pretty clear you go land, mox (imprint hastelord), jam Chalice@1. Even if you think they have Force, they likely wouldn't burn it on the Instigator, so all you do is give them another turn to draw an out to Chalice.
Wait, what? Even with a guarantee of a third land you still imprint the 3rd haster on the Mox and drop the Instigator after Chalice - he can produce upwards of 7+ mana for 'free' (if you draw a Matron or Ringleader in the next two draw steps). Even if you biff on draws putting the hastelords in around countermagic is huge. And since it's doublestrike you get an additional +1 on the 2nd strike. And then on the next attack they take 12 (assuming both hastelords are Chieftains) if you literally have drawn no other Goblins. Seems fine.
Assuming we're on the play and we keep the correct sequencing is:
Turn 1 Land, Mox imprinting 'redundant' hastelord, Chalice on 1. Assuming no FoW then it's
Turn 2 Instigator, even if we hit a land because...
Turn 3 drop guys into play for free around countermagic, and if either of the draws were a CA Goblin the match is ours.
Going for Chalice on 1 is great, but the rest of the hand is garbage in this matchup. What happens if it does get countered?
If you've never had your t1 play force of willed, and then your t2 play swordsed/bolted, you haven't played enough Legacy.
I say the hand is garbage because a hand of 3 hastelords is rubbish, and your average 6 card hand with a matron or a ringleader is just better.
I'm keen to find out what happened in the rest of this game for Gobolord to lose.
Edit: Syntax.
+ 1.
Slam it down, and if it sticks... GG.
About #4: technically you have said what it did, he interpreted it wrong. Did he read the card?
"Be it ever so crumbled, there's no place like home."
RGCL (GQ)
Youtube-playlist dedicated to RGCL
Sure, it's happened to me. But we're not playing a Tier 1 deck (despite what your sig says), we have to take risks that have huge payoffs sometimes. There's no guarantee that the hands gets any better either. I'd take an explosive 7 that Miracles literally cannot beat without FoW right now than a chance at a mediocre 6 that gives them time to set up.
EITHER WAY - this is all just playstyle and opinion at this point. The only fact is that IF Chalice on 1 resolves T1, it's GG in Goblin favor. If not, then Winstigator MAYBE gets there depending on draws on both sides. I'd like to hear what happened from Gobolord though!
Puzzle 1 - You counter Eletrickery. It still costs 1.
Puzzle 2 - Guess he would need eot Dig, so he had at least 5 cards his turn, then drop a land(1), SnT(2), Omni(3), bounce the Trini(4), killcon (5).
Puzzle 3 - I know that one.
Puzzle 4 - Your opponent is wrong. You are not required in any circumstances to give a full detailed oracle text of any card. If you don't lie, like you haven't, then it is his own fault for not knowing what the card does, whether by reading it properly or by asking the judge for the oracle text. My advice would be: Don't lie. If it is competitive, don't give complete information.
Puzzle 5 - Easy keep T1 Mountain then Mox imprinting Warchief if it is there, then casting CotV. T2 Instigator, T4 kill. Can't ask much more than that. If he handles your team, you had 4 drawsteps already to get more relevant cards. CotV is one one the most potent cards against Miracles. That hand is better than most 6 cards I can think of that don't include Matron or Ringleader.
As for the list, you know I'm a fan.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Hand is good. You can't mulligan because they can have force of will for chalice and swords for instigator. You can't always play assuming the opponent has all the answers he needs. Even if he has them, well, it's not like you must have shitty topdecks all the time.... you just need a land and you will eventually draw matron/ringleader in a good percentage of games.
Congrats on the win Christian!
Did you forget about your own Chalice or where you waiting for Tim to point out the triggers?
PUZZLE#1: Chalice@1 + Electrickery for overload costs.
Chalice of the Void cares about CCM, and overload doesn't change it. Electrickery should be countered
PUZZLE#2: I don't really understand if you have trini in hand (no effect so, he can eot Dig or Cunning wish for intuition or volcanic island) or on board and he can End of your turn cast Cunning wish for (WipeAway)
His turn no trini: show&tell -> Omniscience + Cunning wish is enough for Firemind's Foresight...
PUZZLE#4: Your opponent asks “What does it do? It’s the one that pumps creatures, right?”. You respond: “Yes, that’s the one.” Is your opponent right? I don't know the answer but I think he had to read the card and call the judge to be sure or it's his mistake!
GP Lille, I played a french version of Lightning crafter. My spanish opponent asked me an english translation to be sure of the activated ability but not for "Appuie de gobelin" which he translated HIMSELF by "championing" without my help. When he terminus-ed me, saw the return of matron (championed) and realized his mistake and the defeat. He called the judge saying that I had not explain championing effect (He knew the name).
I was very angry because that was clearly a lie and he tried to win by unfair way.
That was difficult to explain well to the judge. There was no impact because I can kill him with one card in my hand.
PUZZLE#5 Miracle What is your turn-1 play here and why? (Mountain, Chrome Mox, Chalice, Winstigator, and 3 Hastelords)
T1 Moutain + Mox (imprint Hastelord) + Chalice@1
You played Chalice to avoid top, SoP and cantrip. Without these weapons Miracle needs lot of luck to terminus your T4 kill
T2 Winstigator
T3 WI connect + 2 chieftain 17 PV + (piledriver drew :) )
T4 WI +2/+2 + 2 chieftain 3/3 8 PV + ??
Thank you everyone for your responses. I really love to read the discussions and I am glad that my PUZZLE TIMES initiate some of them.
Here are my replies:
PUZZLE TIME #1: Electrickery gets countered.
PUZZLE TIME #2: Tim needed (and did hold) Show and Tell, Omniscience, Emrakul, a bounce spell (or Cunning Wish EOT) and a land. In his turn he had 6 mana including the Land he just drew from the top of his library. He cast SnT dropping Omniscience, I dropped Trinisphere, then he bounced my Trinisphere, cast Emrakul and went to his extra turn. One Attack would not have been enough to Finish me , so he had to draw another Emrakul or Cunning Wish - which he did.
PUZZLE TIME #3: it would have been correct to use my Wasteland to drop him down on 4 lands,then he would have needed a Sol-Land to go off. Instead I dropped another Chalice for whatever reason.
PUZZLE TIME #4: according to the judges the answer is: it depends on the REL you are playing. We were playing REL: competitive which means that my answer was according to the rules as I didnt lie. On REL: regular both Player need to make sure that game states are understood correctly, meaning the least thing I have to do is to ask him to call a judge for the correct Oracle text (as the card Text was written in a foreign language).
This situation didnt happens during the tournament, it was just a thought experiment.
PUZZLE TIME #5: You are indeed right that the hand is keepable, and that Chalice would have been the better thing to play on turn 1 - Miracles will board out some number of FoW after G1 when they have enough cards to bring in from SB. I cast Winstigator first,which got exiled by StoP. Chalice Stuck on the next turn, but from that point onwards I didnt draw my third Land until turn 6-7. At that point Tim was able to find his Engineered Explosives , Brainstorm + Entreat the Angels.
Last edited by GoboLord; 09-24-2015 at 09:19 AM.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
sooooo....
dig through time is now banned. guess we can go back to being a tier 1.5 deck?
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