Would you share your maindeck? How to build the optimal sideboard is highly dependent on the composition of your 60.Originally Posted by orcanmail
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Would you share your maindeck? How to build the optimal sideboard is highly dependent on the composition of your 60.
My MD is as follows
3x Chrome Mx
4 x Aether Vial
3 x Tarfire
4 x Goblin Lackey
2 x Goblin Pile driver
3 x Mogg War Marshal (The glue that synergies with Gempalms,etc)
1 x Sting scourger
3 x Warren Instigator
3 x Gempalm Incinerator
4 x Goblin Matron
2 x Goblin Warchief
3 x Goblin Chieftain
4 x Goblin Ringleader
2 x Siege-Gang Commander (I just about play these over 2 x Krenko. I don't like Moat.)
4 x Wasteland
4 x Cavern of Souls
12 x Mountain
I know 61 cards, I could drop the 3 Chrome Moxes for 2 Mountains. I don't like Hymn to Tourachs.
It's Winstigator with a hint of Classic blended together. I gave up on Rishadan Ports a couple of years ago as Legacy got too fast to control mana, and I sold my dual lands as mono red seemed strong anyway.
So how does that fit with the SB in the current Legacy meta?
Thanks for your help.
You already play three Chieftains, so I don't think Boartusk is necissary. You are already faster than most Goblin lists, so the fairly common one-of Plague granting your opponents inevitability isn't necissarily going to matter as much.
You have quite a lot of cards to bring in against Death and Taxes, compared to the number of cards you'd want to board out against them (you could make a case for siding out Lackeys on the draw, but nevertheless my observation remains true for when you're on the play).
Tin-Street Hooligan with only 4 CoS:s as green sources seems extremely ambitious.
The third Pyrokinesis is usually worse than the second, which tends to be worse than the first. You can't afford too much card disadvantage (especially in a list with 3 Chrome Moxen). Also, once you've resolved one Pyrokinesis, they are more likely to be low on resources as well, decreasing the value you could expect to gain from a second one.
I like the idea of adding Relic to your sideboard, ca 2-3 of them. They replace Boartusk vs midrange Tarmogoyf decks, and having just a few of them goes a long way towards improving your MU against the graveyard centered decks (Dredge & Reanimator). While you already have enough cards to bring in against Storm to get rid of all your actively bad cards, it is a MU where overboarding isn't really an issue.
The other card I would love to see in your sideboard is Blood Moon. It helps vs some of your most difficult matchups, and can often be the key card that wins you the game by disregarding whatever strategic advantages they might otherwise have. Blood Moon gets even better in a list such as your own, where you have multiple Chrome Moxen, and is even stronger against Storm than normally, because it protects not only Chalice, but Thorn as well, from Abrupt Decay.
In short, something like this is what I'd suggest:
-2 Boartusk Liege
-1 Tin-Street Hooligan
-1 Pyrokinesis
+2 Relic of Progenitus
+2 Blood Moon
Your D&T matchup will likely suffer a little, but your MUs against Storm, Shardless, Lands, BUG Delver and Reanimator will likely improve.
R/B Goblins
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Thanks for your observations and comments.
You're right about TSH and only 4 Caverns to cast him. I always side him together with Tuk Tuk, and if I don't have a cavern I matron for Tuk Tuk first, and most of the time have a Cavern by the time I use a 2nd matron. Still there are times...I like his 2/1 body though.
Again, thanks for your comments. You can see I hate Storm decks!
Goblins won the classic in the hands of JPR also known as Turn1Lakey on the internet .
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Soldier Stompy
Pretty cool list, with one Warping Wail main. Full list can be found here.
Last edited by Chatto; 01-25-2016 at 01:48 AM.
"Be it ever so crumbled, there's no place like home."
RGCL (GQ)
Youtube-playlist dedicated to RGCL
Is there any video of the event would enjoy watching it
And here's a report of the event : https://www.reddit.com/r/GoblinsMTG/...sic_1st_place/
well done!!
So while my ass was going 1-3 at a local tourney yesterday Gobbos was winning a SCG classic. That's pretty nuts. I must say, this is making me rethink my aversion to Wastes and Ports. I dropped Ports a while ago but it might be time to bring them back. The tournament report is well done also. It looks like Chalice did a lot of work, plus he got pretty lucky in the Belcher match and got a free win against the lands player that blocked Ringleader over Lackey. I'd be interested to hear how he sideboarded. I usually expect to see more bombs in the side, but there weren't many here aside from Chalice. I look at that sideboard and see a lot of cards that could go in any MU, so the siding strategy sees very important here.
Regardless, this legitimately warmed my heart.
Hello again Goblins players! While Goblins was busy winning the SCG Classic, I almost took down a SCG Super IQ in Fenton, MI at BC Games and Comix.
With 32 players we had 5 Swiss Rounds with a cut to Top 8. Here is my list:
Lands (22)
14 Mountain
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
Creatures (31)
4 Goblin Lackey
2 Skirk Prospector
1 Stingscourger
2 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Piledriver
2 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Lightning Crafter
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Artifact (4)
4 AEther Vial
Instant (3)
3 Tarfire
Sideboard (15)
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Settler
1 Stingscourger
Round 1: Miracles (2-0)
Unfortunately, I was paired with my buddy Vince who had been kind enough to drive all of us from Toledo to the event (we brought 4 players). Unfortunately for him, this is our best matchup. I'd write some notes but I forgot most of this match as it was early.
Round 2: Elves (2-1)
Game 1 - I got crushed.
Game 2 - I get a Skirk Prospector on board, followed by a Chalice on 1 and then a Warchief plus a Matron I believe? I find Sharpshooter. After I deploy Sharpshooter, however, I've gone hellbent. He has a Pendelhaven and two Elves. I use my Wasteland to target his Pendelhaven, he activates it in response, I Sharpshooter in response, he Abrupt Decays Sharpshooter, I use Skirk to untap Sharpshooter and eat his other Elf. He Reclamation Sages the Chalice on my turn. I raw draw Krenko with a Warchief out, make 3 tokens and attack with everything but Warchief so as to keep it alive against blocks. On his turn, he has the nutty multiple Wirewoods into Elvish Visionary chain, finds Natural Order into Craterhoof. Fortunately for me, he has exactly 19 damage (Craterhoof and Rec Sage with +6) and opts not to attack, as I'll be able to make enough lethal hasty Goblins with Krenko next turn. I draw a land and attack with everything after activating Krenko. He does shenanigans with Wirewood and Visionary, loses an Elf and goes to 2. I have to cross my fingers and hope that the Hoof or NO is not on top of his library. He draws 3 cards with the Visionary but does not hit. Hoof was the next card after he concedes.
Game 3 - He leads with Symbiote, I lead with Lackey. He plays another Symbiote and attacks with the 1st Symbiote (!?!). I Tarfire his untapped Symbiote, attack with Lackey and drop Krenko or something into play. He has no Turn 3 play (I'm not sure what happened there?) but I'm able to overwhelm him with Goblins the next few turns. I confess I don't know Elves as well - I used my Wasteland to hit his Bayou at EoT on his effective 'last turn', and he fetched up a Dryad Arbor afterwards. He says he wasn't able to draw a land and 'go off' but I'm not sure how he would kill me with just an Arbor and Deathrite in play other than a huge Hoof.
Round 3:
BURg Delver (2-1)
Game 1 - Double Lackey is stymied by a very active Pyromancer even after the first one gets Tarfired. I am stuck on one land as my AETher Vial gets Dazed and a flipped Delver slowly eats away at my life total. By the time I hit my second land and chance to get back into the game an Angler comes down and gets in with a horde of tokens.
Game 2 and 3 - These games are dictated by Chalice of the Void and Pyrokinesis. I don't remember them quite as well as the first round since we did play a 25+ minute first game but the other two were not as long.
Round 4:
Miracles (2-0)
Game 1 - Play through two Terminus, Ringleaders bought me enough gas to ignore it.
Game 2 - Turn 2 Piledriver, Turn 3 Warchief, Turn 4 Siege-Gang is the killing play as he has no white mana on board (and missed his 2nd or 3rd land drop :( )
Round 5:
R/G Infect
We ID but play for fun. Tarfire and Mog War Marshal take out and absorb enough Infect damage to get there. Game 2, Wastelanding his turn 1 Inkmoth takes me the rest of the way. 4 - of Wasteland is a must.
Top 8
Lands (2-1, I'm not sure how to designate these types of deck, can someone help me out? What's the difference between Aggro Loam and R/G Combo Lands?)
Game 1 - My Lackey on 1 is responded to with Turn 1 Manabond, dump the perfect Stage Combo on board and activate it at my upkeep. No raw draw Stingscourger here.
Game 2 - Turn 1 Lackey is met with Turn 1 Manabond, no Depths combo this time. He opts to keep Depths on board instead of Glacial Chasm. I punish this by dropping Settler into play off of Lackey and Wastelanding a land. Next turn I drop Kiki into play and Stone Rain him repeatedly.
Game 3 - If anyone can recommend me more hate for these Lands decks, let me know, because I think I need it. I won this game only by having the perfect opener and a potential misplay on his part. He leads with a Turn 1 Manabond (again!) but doesn't use its ability. I think he was playing around Wasteland here and didn't have the actual combo and activate yet but I do have Wasteland in hand. I lead with Relic on Turn 1. On his next turn, he does use Manabond and puts the combo into play - but this time he does not make a 20/20 on my upkeep; is this a mistake? - which means my first action is to plop a Wasteland into play and always leave it open to snipe the Depths in addition to my Relic being able to eat all of that plus a Loam in his yard. On my third turn, I put in a Lackey and leave the rest of my mana open. On his turn, he has plays a land which puts him at enough mana to Port my Wasteland, forcing me to use it and then could get a 20/20 in response. He passes to me first, however. I don't play a land for turn, attack with Lackey, trigger to drop in Matron - he responds by going for the Port, I try to Wasteland Depths to force him to put the 20/20 into play and he does so. I fetch up Stingscourger then in my Main Phase 2 play my fourth land, bounce the 20/20 and eat his entire yard. I'm able to grind the game out from there.
Top 4
U/G Infect (2-1)
Game 1 - I don't leave open enough blockers against a Glistener Elf and get Invigorate + Berserked for exactsies with the Exalted Buff
Game 2 - Chalice gets Dazed but I eat a Hierach and a Glistener Elf with a Pyrokinesis and slam Goblins onto the table after that.
Game 3 - Chalice on 1 sticks and Pyrokinesis eats a Hierach and a Inkmoth Nexus. After the game, he shows me double Berserk and Vines in his hand. Yikes!
Finals
Sneak and Show (0-2)
It's one of my other Toledo buddies! We've played the matchup many a time and we're practically even at this point. If I draw well enough my mainboard Stingscourger can generally get me there.
Game 1 - Opener is Lackey, Vial, Matron, Tarfire, 3 lands. Any other non-Lackey Goblin will probably win me this game. I run the Vial out on 1 which resolves, then draw a Lackey. D'oh! I play one of them, Vial the other in. On Turn 3, I draw dead again and attack with both Lackeys - I drop a Matron into play, finding another Matron, finding Stingscourger. I have 4 power on board, a Vial on 2 in play, Stingscourger in hand and only need to draw any other Goblin to put the game away. On his turn, he casts Show and Tell, and I smell a Sneak Attack as he generally wouldn't be so willing to discard a Show and Tell. I opt to put a land into play and he in fact has the Sneak Attack. With my Vial on 2, I can still bounce a Grisel attack but fear the Emrakul. Sadly, he has both. I'm able to bounce Griselbrand after declare attackers (he had a bunch of Simian Spirit Guides to power out the initial Sneaks and still had a Lotus Petal on board so I have to let the trigger go through) - he loses 7 to go from 11 to 4 and then I sacrifice a bunch of lands, Stingscourger and the Matrons, leave 3 lands, Vial and my Lackeys on board. I could have bounced the Emrakul, but then his Griselbrand actually hits for the 7 lifelink and I can't win at that point.
I draw a Ringleader the next turn - attack with my Lackeys. He Sneaks in the first Griselbrand and I attempt to Tarfire my own Lackey to prevent the Lifelink, but he has Force of Will. He gains 7 and my Ringleader whiffs on all 4! He puts the game away next turn.
Game 2 - I think I have the nuts draw of Turn 1 Vial, Turn 2 Thorn of Amethyst but he is able to run Sneak Attack into play with City of Traitors and multiple Simian Spirit Guides on the fourth turn. I die with both of the Stingscourgers in my hand. What a way to lose!
6-1-1 as an overall record for Goblins is great! I think that going forward, I am going to remove the Lightning Crafter combo from my decklist to put a mainboard Sharpshooter in, I'll move to the 4 Wasteland 4 Ports version (nearly every game I lost Rishadan Port would have been AMAZING) and try out some Warping Wails in the mainboard and sideboard. Additionally, I think some number of Pithing Needle at least need to be in the sideboard to deal with Lands and Sneak attacks. If anyone has questions, comments, or criticisms, let me know! It's been a great weekend for Goblins, let's keep it going my friends! :)
Last edited by Dan Pyre; 01-26-2016 at 01:13 AM.
Two pretty insane results for the green men in one week! Wow!
Congrats on your run! I agree with you and jrw that Ports seem to be coming back, which is quiet interesting to say the least.
"Be it ever so crumbled, there's no place like home."
RGCL (GQ)
Youtube-playlist dedicated to RGCL
Great job man. Looks like I'll have to give Chalice a slot back in the SB. Looks like it did work. Grenzo looks pretty cool too.
"We are goblinkind, heirs to the mountain empires of chieftains past. Rest is death to us, and arson is our call to war."
Congratiolations to both of you and thanks for the reports (also for the one over at reddit).
I'd like to hear more about that. Could you give some examples of situtauions in your lost games where Rishadan would have mattered?
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
So, last time I competed with Goblins in July I was playing the 3 Chrome Mox Winstigator version. I did pretty well considering my matchups and that Omnitell was still legal, but after losing the clutch game to 4 color Delver in the 3rd round of that tournament by drawing all of my Chrome Moxen I decided I wanted to try a more stable version of Goblins, despite being worse against fast combo.
If we assume that in any given game where I had multiple Mountains that one of them was a Rishadan Port instead, I could have done the following:
-Port down non-basic Miracles White mana during a time when it isn't convenient for them, forcing Terminus to be used at the wrong time or not at all during my attack phase. This either forces them to fetch into Wasteland or fetch a ton of Basic Plains, which might not be good for them with the color requirements of their deck.
-Port in the Elves matchup would have bought me a turn against Cradle hands, but I imagine there that the two mana without pressure might not have been good enough.
-Porting down Inkmoth Nexus seems incredibly helpful in the Infect matchup. I know that the idea is that 'we win if we get Sharpshooter on board' but he does cost 3 mana and all of their initial spells cost less than that - having the option to slow something like that down to buy time would have been great.
-In the Lands matchup, in the Game 3 situation had I drawn a Port I could have forced his hand on the Depths Combo into my Wasteland by Porting Stage. Had I not had the hand that I did, there's no way I would have won that final Game. Having 4x Port would make this matchup quite a bit better I imagine.
-In the Show and Tell match, with Port and a Lackey out I could have bought myself at least a turn by porting down his lands each turn, effectively making his Sneak Attacks cost one more. This would have been insanely helpful, especially after I resolved my Thorn of Amethyst.
-Additionally, having 4x Cavern, 4x Waste, 4x Ports in the deck provides 12 colorless sources for Warping Wail while only being 8 'True' colorless sources since all of our red spells other than Tarfire can be played on it. I think that Warping Wail should definitely be in most Goblins decks as a one, if not two-of going forward. Once I acquire the Ports I will definitely be slotting at least 3 in my 75 to test it out at FNM's and the like.
That makes s lot sense, thank you for the elaborate answer.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
In addition to Dan's points, I like port because:
1. It's a great follow up to a turn 1 vial or lackey, putting you at a big tempo advantage
2. Tapping down mishras factory and mutavault can be relevant too (mutavault is one of the few ways Merfolk has to deal with piledriver)
3. Tapping maze of ith can let lackey or a big piledriver get in
I stopped playing Port and even cut down to three Wastes during the Cruise/Dig era. Putting lands in graveyards or tapping them down just didn't matter with all the delve and DRS running around. Plus the constant threat of mana screw has been worse since AD started killing Vial consistently, so running all those colorless lands seemed like a liability. But now I might have to bring back the mana denial package. Warping Wail gives us a little more utility with colorless lands which Gempalm and Tarfire do not. And the format is a little more reliant on actually using lands to cast spells again.
As part of my New Years Resolutions, I am going to try and be more civil and polite, especially on this thread, and not just resort to throwing shit at people/being a troll. So with that aside...
As many of you know I have always been an advocate for playing 4 Ports. I am currently only playing 3 (the 4th being replaced by a Pendelhaven) but what is the cost of running 2-4 Ports in your 75? There are times when if you run 4 Port/Waste/Cavern you'll be stuck without actual red mana, but isn't the payoff worth it for the other times when you have something to do with your mana every turn? Turn 1 Vial -> Turn 2 Port you is such a strong play and I dare believe it to be one of the strongest turn 2 plays outside of a Lackey/Winstigator connecting and dropping some business.
I really like this quote;
Applying this concept... Are 2-4 Rishadan Ports better than 2-4 Mountains in your deck? For me that is a yes. Whether you think of port as the 5th-8th piece of mana disruption, whether it's your foil to Maze of Ith or a Manland, whether it's just another piece of interaction, is the cost of playing it greater than having perfect mana? I think not. Anyway, good discussion lads, and congrats to all.
That's a very mature decision to make, and you deserve a lot of credit and respect for making it.
For me, port has two major weaknesses.
Number one: it's vulnerable to wasteland (a card we can often play around otherwise).
Number two: It produces only colorless mana. This is often not a problem when it comes to casting our creatures, since Cavern of Souls helps pay for those as well, in adition to us being able to Aether Vial them in. The problem is when he have cards such as Tarfire, Gempalm Incinerator, and various sideboard cards in splash colors, especially noncreature ones that we prefer to play early on, such as Cabal Therapy.
If we are playing a splash, we can shave on fetches/duals, but that makes it harder for us to cast cards of that color. We can also shave basics, but having at least four of them (or five, depending on your list and your curve) is important to ensure that we can develop our mana in a way that makes us resistant to wasteland, which is important against decks like Lands and Pox.
That being said, Rishadan Port can be our best two drop, especially alongside Aether Vial. In a deck where the two drop slot is often the most underwhelming, that can be very strong, providing us with a more streamlined curve, or more space to fit in stronger and more powerful cards.
I don't play any Rishadan Ports at the moment, but that has a lot to do with me being on the black splash. If you're playing a mono red classic list, or a Thalia list, I would recommend the card though. I have had decent results with it in R/b lists as well, where I've found two copies to be the optimal number.
These are my two cents, looking forward to hearing your thoughts on them!
R/B Goblins
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