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Thread: [Deck] Goblins

  1. #9841

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    This is what i'm currently on


    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Goblin Piledriver
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    4 Goblin Warchief
    3 Gempalm Incinerator
    2 Mogg War Marshal
    1 Skirk Prospector
    1 Siege-Gang Commander
    1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Tin Street Hooligan
    1 Tarfire

    4 Æther Vial
    2 Warping Wail

    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Wasteland
    4 Rishadan Port
    4 Mountain
    3 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Wooded Foothills
    1 Taiga

    SB

    Sideboard
    1 Sudden Demise
    2 Pyrokinesis
    2 Mindbreak Trap
    2 Magus of the Moon
    3 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Tin Street Hooligan
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    2 Warping Wail

    I think the SB needs a bit of fine tuning. I kind of want more artifact hate vs stoneblade decks.

  2. #9842
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by gfernandes View Post
    Thanks for the advices. I will keep that in mind.

    What about the sideboard and the side in. 3 Chalices + 2 Krosan Grip + Pithing Needle seems ok, right?
    I agree with GoboLord that your list seems well equipped enough to deal with Miracles.

    The Thopter + Sword combo, makes for a very different deck, so I'll focus on the three most common builds.

    The classic build (entreat the angels)

    +1 Needle, +2 Krosan Grip
    -1 Stingscourger, -2 Tarfire

    The mentor build (4 ponder, 2+ monastery mentor)

    +1 Needle, +2 Krosan Grip, +3 CotV
    -1 Stingscourger, -1 Skirk Prospector, -1 Tin-Street Hooligan, -1 Tarfire, -2 ???

    The Joe Losset build (Clique, Venser, Snappy, Karakas, & CoS)

    +1 Needle, +2 Krosan Grip
    -1 Stingscourger, -1 Skirk Prospector, -1 Tin-Street Hooligan


    With your list, this is how I would sideboard versus these builds, keeping in mind that you will get better results by adjusting your sideboarding to your opponent's individual list and playstyle.

    The build I'm most uncertain how to board against is the mentor one. Wasteland can still be great to keep them off of Izzet Staticaster, and just to help you cast your spells. On the other hand, one of the few ways you lose is if they get a Monastery Mentor online, so I'd want to have answers for that, even if it means having dead cards at other times. If they don't have mentor I usually feel far enough ahead to win anyway. Therefore I'm inclined not to side out Tarfires. I haven't played with your list, so of course I don't have the same feel for it as I do my own. How do you feel about the way the Mentor Miracles MU plays out for you?
    I'd be happy to hear other people chime in as well. :)

  3. #9843

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    I always feel i'm not in the control of the match wich is natural i guess and i feel i lack something to keep the pressure and shut some of their control.

    I'm thinking in making some changes to the deck.

    In the main board i'm thinking in removing Pendelhaven and adding Badlands so i can add one or two Earwig Squad to main too.

    In sideboard i thinking in adding the second Needle and remove 1 Tin Street Hooligan or 1 Pyrokinesis.

  4. #9844
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by gfernandes View Post
    I always feel i'm not in the control of the match wich is natural i guess and i feel i lack something to keep the pressure and shut some of their control.

    I'm thinking in making some changes to the deck.

    In the main board i'm thinking in removing Pendelhaven and adding Badlands so i can add one or two Earwig Squad to main too.

    In sideboard i thinking in adding the second Needle and remove 1 Tin Street Hooligan or 1 Pyrokinesis.
    That's a great idea, Earwig Squad is perhaps our best card against them.

  5. #9845
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    I can highly recommend goblin Chieftain. Im playing the full playset, because (I know, Im singing this same Song since more than 18 months now):
    - it grows your lackey and let's you attack into untapped DRS and SFMs and the like
    - it regularily Puts 5+ additional damage on the board (which is the same amount as Siege-Gang Commander does)
    - it provides haste
    - it helps you to not overextend against Miracles
    - its usually a better topdeck and also better in multiples than warchief
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  6. #9846

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    I sometimes feel like siege gang is a dead draw. Maybe cutting it for chieftain would be better to help with lowering the curve and improving the aggro plan


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #9847

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Miracles Battleplan:

    1) Play Goblin Lackey and swing. Put in a goblin. Punch them until they have to Terminus.

    2) Play another goblin with Haste and continue.

    I have played this MU more than any other matchup. My friend has played this deck for several years and that is the strategy that works best.

    My list runs Fetchlands which are particularly good against them (Shuffling library is nice). Also the best way to deal with mentor is Sharpshooter and Pyrokinesis. It's almost worth having two sharpshooter in the main. As for matron targets, I find that Goblin Ringleader and Goblin Warchief are our best cards against them. Mogg War Marshal can also just shut them down by obnoxiously being the beater for multiple turns.

    My SB for them is Warping Wail, Pithing Needle, Pyrokinesis, and Blood Moon (depending on the list).
    - Warping Wail just shuts off Terminus or some of their cantrips. Also exiles Clique and Snapcaster.
    - Pithing Needle (Karakas for the Joe Losett list, or Top in general)
    - Blood Moon keeps them off their fetchlands. This is actually beyond important as they cannot alter or setup their deck if they cannot shuffle. (Also Joe Losett's list in very greedy compared to most Miracle builds)
    - Pyrokinesis if you need it for Mentor builds.

    Other notes:
    -Wasting their fetchlands in response to them cracking their first one gives them less options and puts their life total down more. This can be very relevant later.
    - Play one or two goblins at a time and beat. Start accumulating cards in your hand they can't beat you. Goblins can do card advantage better than Miracles.
    - Aether Vial is great against them (duh...)
    - Also Port is fun if they only have one white source or blue source.

    Miracles can lead to some of the most interesting matches for Goblins. But it boils down to patience. Can you accumulate more cards than them in your hand and be relevant on the board. Obviously the faster we can move the better. But sometimes it doesn't fall into our favor.

    I find playing the long game, can actually win you the game. I have had games where they cast all 4 Terminus and I cast a Goblin Ringleader 6 times. I won that game.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by GoblinTurkey; 03-16-2016 at 08:04 AM.
    "Gobble Gobble"

  8. #9848

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord View Post
    I can highly recommend goblin Chieftain. Im playing the full playset, because (I know, Im singing this same Song since more than 18 months now):
    - it grows your lackey and let's you attack into untapped DRS and SFMs and the like
    - it regularily Puts 5+ additional damage on the board (which is the same amount as Siege-Gang Commander does)
    - it provides haste
    - it helps you to not overextend against Miracles
    - its usually a better topdeck and also better in multiples than warchief
    I like Chieftain as a 5th Lord. Sometimes he can also be a dud because he doesn't make your dudes cheaper to cast. But casting it with Goblin lackey out is super fun!
    "Gobble Gobble"

  9. #9849

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Hey everyone, I played in a couple smaller tournaments in the last month playing the same build I used in the Super IQ.

    The first tournament I played in had ~15 people in it, and I ended up winning it. I only lost one match to infect in the swiss rounds, but beat the same deck in the finals. I played: U/B Tezzeret, Storm, U/B Onmitell, Infect, and 12 Post. My final record was 5-1-1

    The Second Tournament had ~20 people, and I lost in the finals to Grixis Delver. I lost to Infect in the swiss rounds, but beat it again in the top 8. I played against: Infect, Storm, Reanimator, 4 Color Loam, and Grixis. My final record was 5-2-1

    Having pyrokinesis in the main deck has been amazing, and I plan to stick with this build. I would recommend trying it out. It makes our matches against creature based deck significantly better. Suddenly, deathrite shaman, stoneforge mystic, swiftspear, delver, and the whole elves deck, don't seem like such a huge hassle anymore. I haven't missed a top 8 in quite a while, with the exception of the Classic a few months ago, and I think that having pyro's main deck has been a contributing factor.

    Also, has anyone else been playing with Legion Loyalist? The card has been amazing for me, and has gotten me multiple wins. One of the guys I played with described it as, "a Domri Rade emblem for 1 red mana, with natural haste," and I feel like this a pretty accurate description. Giving our piledrivers first strike and trample is pretty nuts, and not being block by tokens is huge (nice batterskull/elementals/thopters/angels/goblins/etc.) I am curious is others have been trying this out and seeing similar results.

    Anyway. Here is my list again, if anyone is interested:

    Creatures (30)
    2 Gempalm Incinerator
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Goblin Matron
    3 Goblin Piledriver
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    4 Goblin Warchief
    1 Legion Loyalist
    2 Mogg War Marshal
    1 Siege-Gang Commander
    1 Skirk Prospector
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss

    Spells (8)

    4 Aether Vial
    2 Pyrokinesis
    2 Tarfire

    Lands (22)

    4 Mountain
    3 Arid Mesa
    3 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Cavern of Souls
    1 Plateau
    3 Rishadan Port
    4 Wasteland

    Sideboard
    3 Chalice of the Void
    2 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    1 Stingscourger
    2 Magus of the Moon
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Pyrokinesis
    2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

  10. #9850
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    GPT Prague

    2-3, drop

    List
    4 Aether Vial
    4 Goblin Lackey
    2 Skirk Prospector
    3 Mogg War Marshal
    4 Goblin Warchief
    2 Goblin Sharpshooter
    3 Earwig Squad
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss

    3 Tarfire
    2 Gempalm Incinerator
    1 Warren Weirding

    4 Wasteland
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Snow-Covered Mountain
    3 Badlands
    3 Arid Mesa
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Wooded Foothills
    1 Karakas
    1 Pendelhaven

    Sideboard
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Cabal Therapy
    2 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Surgical Extraction
    2 Blood Moon
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper

    I stayed up until 4 am playing Hearthstone the night before the tournament, and while I didn't feel tired I noticed I played very loose. In the future I should make sure to get enough sleep.

    R1 - Mono Brown Stax. 1-2
    G1 I start applying pressure. On the last turn of the game I matron for a Sharpshooter with Warchief, Prospector, and Lackey in play. I remove his blocker and win.
    G2 I keep a slower hand, but one that will completely take over the game once it gets running. The plan is to land a t3 Warchief, and then start swarming the board. Well, my opponent has Port, then Lodestone Golem, then Sphere of Resistance, so my Warchief is a bit delayed. Warchief gets removed, and we reach a point where my opponent is hellbent with Golem + 2 Mishra's Factory in play. I have a bunch of cards, but little life to spare. I matron for Warren Weirding to deal with his Golem. I have 2 Wastelands for his factories, and matron can chump for a turn. My opponent draws for his turn, and it's a Wasteland of his own to take out one of mine, meaning I'm dead to golem on the following turn.
    G3 I keep a fast lackey hand otp. My opponent plays t1 Ancient Tomb > Warping Wail. My other land is a Pendelhaven, and so my opponent was rewarded for removing lackey right away (I know a lot of people would have waited). I don't draw a third land. My opponent plays a Sphere and wastelands me. I concede shortly thereafter.

    R2 - Esper Mentor. 2-0
    I play the control role, knowing I'll likely win if I can keep him from going off with Mentor. An Earwig Squad takes out three Monastery Mentors from his deck, and Sharpshooter sweeps his board. G2 plays out similarly, only I get a Krenko online.

    R3 - Shardless BUG. 2-1
    G1 I wasteland him early. He brainstorms and only plays a waste as his second land. I almost EWS him here but remember I don't want to give him the free shuffle, and am rewarded for it as he bricks on lands.
    G2 a Relic of Progenitus takes care of his Tarmogoyf, but I'm run over by the full set of Shardless Agents, as well as a pair of Strixes and Deathrite Shamans.
    G3 is super tight. I have a bunch of cards but not too much life. Fairly late in the game I draw a Blood Moon. My opponent has Forest, Island, and a black dual or two, so he can still cast many of his spells. I choose to go with Blood Moon anyway, rather than dropping a goblin. My opponent draws a whole bunch of mountains, and I stabilize at four life.

    R4 - Elves. 1-2
    G1 my lackey trades with his 1-drop. I have EWS for his Hoof.
    G2 I keep a six with Tarfire and Chalice. I tarfire his 1-drop, but don't draw a second land.
    G3 I mulligan a hand of Matron, 2 sharpshooters, and lands, because I deem it too slow. I have a Vial and and a Needle for his DRS, and start playing ringleaders on t4. I'm on my way to set up Sharpshooter, but my opponent casts natural order before I get there. I would really like to rewatch this game to see if I could have prevented this somehow, since I don't remember exactly how it played out. Yet another drawback of playing while underslept.

    R5 - BUG Show and Tell with Academy Rector. 1-2
    We split the first two games, and so we're off to a G3. I start racing, and manage to get him down to four life. With a Karakas in play I feel pretty safe, as neither Emrakul nor Griselbrand does much to stop me now. My opponent plays Academy Rector and Phyrexian Tower, finding Form of the Dragon. Moat with upside is difficult to beat. This was the board when I scooped:



    Thoughts: Cabal Therapy is great, but I find that I no longer bring it in versus decks other than combo (read: storm and SnT). If that's the case, maybe I'd be better off playing something else in that slot. On the other hand, I'm happy with my configuration in most matchups, and don't feel I need any more sideboard cards. I would have liked to have Pyrokinesis today though, or something else that can clear the board vs Elves to buy me time to get Sharpshooter online.

    The stax MU is just very swingy, and both G2 and G3 could have easily fallen in my favor. Form of the Dragon is a card I'm okay with being weak to, and I still felt as if I had the tools to fight the deck. I would like to revisit the Elves matchup though, to figure out how to approach it. Elves more widely adopting Cavern of Souls also makes CotV worse against them, which is something to take note of.

  11. #9851

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    If I lose to Form of the Dragon, I can't even be mad. To be honest, I'd be ecstatic. That's amazing. Would SGC have helped? Now that Moat is more common, especially in my meta as an Eldrazi hate card, I have two Krosan Grip and two SGC back vs. the UWx Control decks.

  12. #9852
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    So I've decided that writing tournament reports is the cat's pajamas, so I'm going to start writing them more often. Up today, legacy at TokyoMTG. This week we got 10 players, 3 rounds. Of those 10, 3 were on enchantress...

    Today's List
    4x Goblin Lackey
    4x Goblin Matron
    4x Goblin Warchief
    4x Goblin Ringleader
    3x Mogg War Marshal
    1x Gempalm Incinerator
    1x Tuktuk Scrapper
    1x Stingscourger
    1x Goblin Chieftain
    1x Krenko, Mob Boss
    1x Goblin Sharpshooter
    1x Goblin Piledriver
    2x Tarfire
    1x Warren Weirding
    1x Kolaghan's Command
    3x Warping Wail
    4x Aether Vial
    4x Wasteland
    4x Cavern of Souls
    3x Badlands
    3x Mountain
    3x Wooded Foothills
    3x Bloodstained Mire
    3x Rishadan Port
    Sideboard
    4x Cabal Therapy
    3x Pyrokinesis
    2x Relic of Progenitus
    1x Kolaghan's Command
    1x Umezawa's Jitte
    1x Goblin Piledriver
    1x Stingscourger
    1x Earwig Squad
    1x Tuktuk Scrapper
    This week is my first week trying Chieftain over Siege-Gang Commander, not sure how it will work out. It was only relevant once tonight (it was good) but thats not enough to go on.

    Round 1- G/W MudPost/loam WIN 2-1
    This deck was... funky. It was Green Eldrazi/Mud, splashing white in the sideboard off Talisman of Unity and Brushland, with 12 post lands, and a life from the loam package. I think it did everything ever.
    Game 1 (on the draw, opponent mulliganed to 6)
    He plays a turn 1 cloudpost, I have t1 Vial. He untaps, plays a second cloudpost and a chalice on 1 a turn too late. I start to apply pressure, and all he has is wasteland loam to take out my lands. Vial is enough tho. I dont think he played a creature all game. Piledriver, Cheiftan, and Mogg War Marshal do alot of work.
    Sideboard
    -1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    +1 Kolaghan's Command
    I think it might have been right to take out Warping Wails here. There was not much they could hit.
    Game 2 (on the draw)
    I keep a slower hand with rishadan ports. I have two vials pretty early, but he plays containment priest in response to my first activation. He wastaland/Loams away most of my lands, and plays a lodestone golem to beat down. At 1 life with Vials on 3 and 4 and a full hand, i drew Kolaghan's Command, but couldnt cast it thru Lodestone. so close.
    Game 3 (On the play, I mulliganed to 6)
    Turn 1 lackey vs t1 cloudpost, i have 2 ports and he does nothing.

    Round 2- Enchantress WIN 2-1
    Well, it was 30% of the field, couldn't dodge it forever i guess...
    Game 1 (on the draw, opponent mulliganed to 6)
    I get a decently quick start, and he does nothing. He draws a few cards and dies.
    -3 Warping Wail
    -1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    -1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    +3 Cabal therapy (didnt want to bring in all, enchantress usually dumps all their good stuff out fast, but i wanted to be able to eat a Solitary confinement out of their hand right away if i could. I don't really have any other option to beat that card with this build)
    +1 Earwig squad
    +1 Goblin Piledriver
    Game 2 (on the draw)
    This matchup... i have t1 lackey connect. i warren weirding away his enchantress. he plays several wild growth/utopia sprawl, and then slams sphere of safety (at 5) my entire field is 1/1s and piledriver. I wind up drawing and hardcasting Earwig Squad and beating for a turn, but he quickly plays an enchantreses presence and goes from there. i sat it out to find out his win con, and he shows me both elesh norn and Sigil of the Empty Throne.
    Game 3 (on the play, I mulliganed to 6)
    T1 lackey puts in warchief, cast matron for Earwig Squad. He plays Mirri's Guile and some wild growths. Turn 3 cast Earwig Squad, Take Elesh Norn, Emrakul, and Sigil of the Empty Thorne, leaving him with no win conditions in his deck. He only has 2 cards in hand, so i was pretty sure i would be ok. he plays enchantress and solitary confinement. a few turns later, he casts sun titan, which i kill with Gempalm Incinerator. At this point there is only 1 card i dont know about, and the fact that he is still playing makes me nervous. A cabal therapy shows me his hand, and i now know for sure he cannot win. Turns out he forgot he sideboarded out his other win con, and was digging for something. His face when he fetched and realized was priceless.

    Round 3- Esper Stoneblade WIN 2-1
    This match was pretty standard. Nothing that intresting happened here, just good solid magic.
    Game 1 (On the play)
    I had a crazy fast start. he died on turn my turn 4, thru a thoughtseize and a stoneforge mystic.
    Sideboard
    -1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    -1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    -1 Goblin Piledriver
    +1 Umezawa's Jitte
    +1 Kolaghan's Command
    +1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    Game 2 (on the draw)
    Slow and grindy, he has containment priest to turn off my 2 vials, i have 2 removal spells in hand but no red source. Eventualy draw it but its too late, i die to Vendillion Clique holding a jitte.
    Game 3 (on the play, opponent mulliganed to 6)
    T1 lackey, thoughtseize eats my warcheif but turns out a free Mogg War Marshall is pretty good too. The grind goes on for 10 mins with me coming out on top. He plays stoneforge and gets out jitte, but i have tuktuk scrapper.


    Overall, Pretty good event. i feel like i played well, and it worked out. the big thing is enchantress is now 30% of our field. this matchup is garbage. Ive 2-1 the last two weeks, both of my losses to enchantress. How do you guys go about beating that deck? im considering something like Sudden Demise in the board to wipe out their enchantresses, or splashing green for Krosan Grip.

  13. #9853
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Well, if there there is such a big presence of enchantress in your meta, you can easily make extreme choices and play 4x back to nature in your sideboard, or 4x serenity that also deals with artifacts. You probably won't lose any game where you draw those cards.

  14. #9854
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins


  15. #9855

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    My main plan for enchantress has been earwig squad and chalice

    Chalice doesn't shut them out, but it can slow them enough to get you a win

  16. #9856
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Hey Chieftains,

    I'm busy writing a new chapter for the OP. The chapter will deal with matchups, how they play out, what are the keycards and so on. This is what I have until now:

    In this section I will present my view on a number of relevant MUs as well as some suggestions how to play them right. I will try to update this regularly, but please keep in mind the date when I last edited the list. Also, this is but one view that is presented here, so please feel free to test the MUs yourself and work out strategies that are different from what I am presenting here.
    For reasons of simplicity I have only 5 evaluations different of the MUs:
    (1) favorable: most iterations of Goblins will have good chances of winning against most iterations of the deck in question. Usually you don’t need to reserve any SB cards for this MU.
    (2) slightly favorable: your chances of winning range from even to good, depending on your version of the deck as well as some SB cards
    (3) even: generally chances are evenly distributed. Sometimes this is MU by certain MD or SB cards that you or your opponent are playing. Also, skill and experience will be a relevant factor.
    (4) slightly unfavorable: your list will need some specific tuning to win this MU. SB cards can turn the tides and drag the odds down to 50%. These MUs are usually what you need your SB cards for.
    (5) unfavorable: most iterations of your opponents deck will have good chances of beating yours. In some cases you can dedicate a lot of SB cards to make this MU even, but sometimes it is better to accept that you can’t beat every deck.

    Miracles – favorable
    How the matchups works: You have everything that they don’t want to see: a fast clock, creatures that they can’t counter, cardadvantage. There are two ways they can beat you: (1) a well-timed Entreat the Angels and (2) Monastery Mentor getting out of reach before you can remove it. The longer the games the more favored they are – so try to make it quick. Your plan is to establish a boardposition that can deal a minimum of 4 damage a turn, while holding Matron or Ringleader in your hand. You will pressure your opponent to find a Terminus during your attack step and then refill your resources with Ringleader on the second mainphase of the same turn. Matron should usually find Ringleader. Make sure to not let it get countered. After G1 you want to keep as many creatures in our deck as possible. Ideally you keep one or two removal spells after G1.
    Which version to pick: Both versions are equally well-equipped to beat Miracles. If you are playing the CLASSIC build, make sure not to overrate your Rishadan Ports but keep on casting creatures. When wielding the WINSTIGATOR list, make sure to resist temptation of overextending with Double-Strike triggers. Winstigator + Pendelhaven is a decent clock.
    Cards that support this strategy: Aether Vial, Cavern of Souls, Goblin Matron, Goblin Ringleader, Goblin Piledriver, Goblin Chieftain

    Storm Combo – unfavorable
    How the matchups works: You can steal games by killing them on turn 3 or 4. However, yur lack of disruptive elements usually makes you an easy target. When you evaluate your opening hands you should aim for a kill on turn 3 or 4. Every piece of hate should delay your opponent by at least 1 turn. If it doesn’t then don’t play it. Accept the idea of being killed on turn 1 or 2 without any interaction.
    Which version to pick: Neither version will have good times here. WINSTIGATOR lists are better equipped here as they are more likely to pull off turn-3 kills. Also, Chrome Mox helps casting hatepieces one turn earlier than usual.
    Cards that support this strategy: Goblin Lackey, Warren Instigator, Goblin Piledriver, Chalice of the Void, Cabal Therapy, Ethersworn Canonist, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Thorn of Amethyst, Leyline of Sanctity

    Eldrazi Stompy – slightly favorable
    How the matchups works: In this MU your goal is to buy enough time until you can block their way with your hordes. Eldrazi Smasher and equipments stand in the way of that plan. Their major weakness is their manabase. Their best spells cost 4+ mana and demand colorless mana, so any form of manadisruption is effective. Try to read what cards they have in hand. You can read that from the amount of mana they have available and what cards they played last turn. Watch out for some interactions of their spells and lands. A few examples: Eye of Ugin doesn’t actually produce mana, but reduces the manacosts. So, no playing Jitte with Eye of Ugin. Make sure that they tap at least 1 colorless mana when casting their spells. Under a Bloodmoon they will usually not be able to cast any spell with <> in their manacosts. Over a course of several games you will be favored, as their manabase is shaky and their mulligan decisions are more difficult, as the deck is less consistent than yours.
    Which version to pick: The CLASSIC build really shines here as it is able to run 8 manadenial lands. The WINSTIGATOR build is better in MUs where you want to win the early game – and Eldrazi Stompy is none of them, since their early game is much better than ours.
    Cards that support this strategy: Aether Vial, Wasteland, Rishadan Port, Blood Moon, Mogg War Marshal, Pyrokinesis

    Shardless BUG – even
    How the matchups works: unlike most other deck, this creature-based deck has a cardadvantage engine that is as powerful as ours. Shardless Agent revealing Tarmogoyf or Ancestral Visions can put you in a very uncomfortable position. Additionally, early DRS blocking the way for Goblin Lackey, and Abrupt Decay destroying Aether Vial can steal your tempo and mana advantage. Our strength on the other turn is their weakness to Krenko, Mob Boss as they have only 1 or two cards in their 75 that can actually get rid of it. Also, in the absence of Tarmogoyf and Ancestral visions their boardstate is usually weak and we will have enough time to develop a favorable boardposition.
    Which version to pick: The CLASSIC version is in a better here, as Mogg War Marshal supports the above strategy better. Also, running Chrome Mox makes Hymn to Tourarch hurt you more and Liliana can become a problem as well.
    Cards that support this strategy: Krenko, Mob Boss, Mogg War Marshal, Aether Vial, Goblin Matron, Goblin Ringleader, Gempalm Incinerator

    I would like to get some feedback on this. Any input on what I already wrote is appreciated, so are ideas and suggestions for writing more content. My plan would be to cover the DTBs at least, but other relevant decks can be covered as well. As I don't have extensive experience with every MU there is, I'm open to update the content when you think something is not correct.

    Looking forwar to reading your comments.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

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  17. #9857
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    @gobbolord: thanks so much for your efforts again. This is a great idea. My experience is not new, but maybe can write some enchantress or Canadian mus. ..
    Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.

  18. #9858

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    I'm definitely liking MWM quite a bit recently and, in turn, it makes Gempalm even better so I'm running an extra in the MD. Of course, it makes Krenko better too. I agree with Gobolords assessment re: the BUG and Eldrazi matchups. Fog-on-a-stick is pretty sweet against those decks.
    "We are goblinkind, heirs to the mountain empires of chieftains past. Rest is death to us, and arson is our call to war."

  19. #9859
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    It's done. Would be happy to get some feedback on where you agree/disagree with my views on the respective MUs. Or what MUs you want me to write about next.

    IV. Matchups & strategy (last update: 28/03/2016)

    In this section I will present my view on a number of relevant MUs as well as some suggestions how to play them right. I will try to update this regularly, but please keep in mind the date when I last edited the list. Also, this is but one view that is presented here, so please feel free to test the MUs yourself and work out strategies that are different from what I am presenting here.
    I am using the following five "ratings" for MUs.
    (1) favorable: most iterations of Goblins will have good chances of winning against most iterations of the deck in question. Usually you don’t need to reserve any SB cards for this MU.
    (2) slightly favorable: your chances of winning range from even to good, depending on your version of the deck as well as some SB cards
    (3) even: generally chances are evenly distributed. Sometimes the outcome if this is MU decided by certain MD or SB cards that you or your opponent are playing. Also, skill and experience will be a relevant factor.
    (4) slightly unfavorable: your list will need some specific tuning to win this MU. SB cards can turn the tides and drag the odds down to 50%. These MUs are usually what you need your SB cards for.
    (5) unfavorable: most iterations of your opponents deck will have good chances of beating yours. In some cases you can dedicate a lot of SB cards to make this MU even, but sometimes it is better to accept that you can’t beat every deck.

    Miracles – favorable
    How the matchups works: You have everything that they don’t want to see: a fast clock, creatures that they can’t counter, cardadvantage. There are two ways they can beat you: (1) a well-timed Entreat the Angels and (2) Monastery Mentor getting out of reach before you can remove it. The longer the games the more favored they are – so try to make it quick. Your plan is to establish a boardposition that can deal a minimum of 4 damage a turn, while holding Matron or Ringleader in your hand. You will pressure your opponent to find a Terminus during your attack step and then refill your resources with Ringleader on the second mainphase of the same turn. Matron should usually find Ringleader. Make sure to not let it get countered. After G1 you want to keep as many creatures in our deck as possible. Ideally you keep one or two removal spells after G1.
    Which version to pick: Both versions are equally well-equipped to beat Miracles. If you are playing the CLASSIC build, make sure not to overrate your Rishadan Ports but keep on casting creatures. When wielding the WINSTIGATOR list, make sure to resist temptation of overextending with Double-Strike triggers. Winstigator + Pendelhaven is a decent clock.
    Cards that support this strategy: Aether Vial, Cavern of Souls, Goblin Matron, Goblin Ringleader, Goblin Piledriver, Goblin Chieftain
    Meaninful SB cards: Earwig Squad, Pithing Needle

    Storm Combo – unfavorable
    How the matchups works: You can steal games by killing them on turn 3 or 4. However, your lack of disruptive elements usually makes you an easy target. When you evaluate your opening hands you should aim for a kill on turn 3 or 4. Every piece of hate should delay your opponent by at least 1 turn. If it doesn’t then don’t play it. Accept the idea of being killed on turn 1 or 2 without any interaction.
    Which version to pick: Neither version will have good times here. WINSTIGATOR lists are better equipped here as they are more likely to pull off turn-3 kills. Also, Chrome Mox helps casting hatepieces one turn earlier than usual.
    Cards that support this strategy: Goblin Lackey, Warren Instigator, Goblin Piledriver
    Meaninful SB cards: Chalice of the Void, Cabal Therapy, Ethersworn Canonist, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Thorn of Amethyst, Leyline of Sanctity

    Eldrazi Stompy – slightly favorable
    How the matchups works: In this MU your goal is to buy enough time until you can block their way with your hordes. Eldrazi Smasher and equipments stand in the way of that plan. Their major weakness is their manabase. Their best spells cost 4+ mana and demand colorless mana, so any form of manadisruption is effective. Try to read what cards they have in hand. You can read that from the amount of mana they have available and what cards they played last turn. Watch out for some interactions of their spells and lands. A few examples: Eye of Ugin doesn’t actually produce mana, but reduces the manacosts. So, no playing Jitte with Eye of Ugin. Make sure that they tap at least 1 colorless mana when casting their spells. Under a Bloodmoon they will usually not be able to cast any spell with <> in their manacosts. Over a course of several games you will be favored, as their manabase is shaky and their mulligan decisions are more difficult - their deck is less consistent than yours.
    Which version to pick: The CLASSIC build really shines here as it is able to run 8 manadenial lands. The WINSTIGATOR build is better in MUs where you want to win the early game – and Eldrazi Stompy is none of them, since their early game is much better than ours.
    Cards that support this strategy: Aether Vial, Wasteland, Rishadan Port, Mogg War Marshal,
    Meaninful SB cards: Blood Moon, Pyrokinesis, Tuktuk Scrapper

    Shardless BUG – even
    How the matchups works: unlike most other deck, this creature-based deck has a cardadvantage engine that is as powerful as ours. Shardless Agent revealing Tarmogoyf or Ancestral Visions can put you in a very uncomfortable position. Additionally, early DRS blocking the way for Goblin Lackey, and Abrupt Decay destroying Aether Vial can steal your tempo and mana advantage. Our strength on the other turn is their weakness to Krenko, Mob Boss as they have only 1 or two cards in their 75 that can actually get rid of it. Also, in the absence of Tarmogoyf and Ancestral visions their board is usually weak and we will have enough time to develop a favorable boardposition. One more thing that many people might not notice: Tuktuk Scrapper can usually destroy one of their creatures, since Shardless Agent and Baleful Strix both are artifacts.
    Which version to pick: The CLASSIC version is in a better here, as Mogg War Marshal supports the above strategy better. Also, running Chrome Mox makes Hymn to Tourarch hurt you more and Liliana can become a problem as well when running Warren Instigator in the spot of Mogg War Marshal.
    Cards that support this strategy: Krenko, Mob Boss, Mogg War Marshal, Aether Vial, Goblin Matron, Goblin Ringleader, Gempalm Incinerator
    Meaningful SB cards: Relic of Progenitus, Rest in Peace, Perish

    BUG Delver – even
    How the matchups works: Delver of Secrets, Deathrite Shaman and True-Name Nemesis will try to deal unblockable damage to your lifepoints while Tarmogoyf, Hymn to Tourarch and Liliana of the Veil will try to eat your resources so that you can’t handle their damage output. The rest of their deck is largely irrelevant as you can usually ignore their countermagic. Also their deck is light on removal spells so, unless you need to throw your creatures into a Tarmogoyf or Liliana, every creature that hits the board, stay on the board. Your plan is to create a large-enough cardadvantage, while killing Delver and Deathrite Shaman as early as possible. As with other tempo-decks, try to avoid unfavorable trades. On the long run your deck has a better stamina. At the same time you need to close out games fast enough, because their unblockable damage can stack up really fast and put your lifetotal in lethal range.
    Which version to pick: The CLASSIC version should have easier times surviving the early game. Just don’t focus too much on using your manadenial, but make sure to get some value on the board. The WINSTIGATOR list will be better at closing out games and switching from the control role to beatdown mode. However, as with Shardless BUG, Hymn to Tourarch and Liliana hit you harder when playing with Chrome Mox.
    Cards that support this strategy: Mogg War Marshal, Tarfire, Aether Vial, Goblin Piledriver, Krenko, Mob Boss
    Meaningful SB cards: Relic of Progenitus, Rest in Peace

    Grixis Tempo – slightly favorable
    How the matchups works: Very much like BUG Delver, this is another Tempo deck featuring the shell of Deathrite Shaman and Delver of Secrets, Force of Will, Daze and 8 cantrips. The most problematic card in this MU is Young Pyromancer, which can take over games from one turn to the next. Save a removal spell for this guy and you will be fine. With this MU you will have somewhat easier time getting ahead in early game as their creatures are initially very weak. Also, in comparison to BUG, Grixis usually doesn’t play any Abrupt Decays, which means that your Vial will stick on the board. In earlygame it is totally legit to trade your Lackey for Delver of Young Pyromancer. After G1 you will bring in some Pyrokinesis and/or Sharpshooter to counter their most effective wincondition, while they exchange some of their countermagic for more removal spells and probably discard.
    Which version to pick: Their deck operates well with a small amount of mana. In addition to that, grinding out games is not necessary. For these reasons the two major strength of the CLASSIC version don’t carry weight. The WINSTIGATOR list should be your version of choice, as it brings a very strong early game.
    Cards that support this strategy: Warren Instigator, Goblin Chieftain, Tarfire, Gempalm Incinerator
    Meaningful SB cards: Pyrokinesis, Goblin Sharpshooter

    Elves – slightly unfavorable
    How the matchups works: In game 1 they are clearly favored. On the way of assembling one of their combokills they can block the board with a bunch of 1/1 creatures and gain value with untaps, mana-abilities and bouncing their own creatures (like Elvish Visionary). Their most effective enablers are Quirion Ranger, Wirewood Symbiote and Heritage Druid – so usually you should kill of these first. It is very rare that you can slowly build up an advantage that you can ride to victory. The MU comes down to whether or not you can wipe their board with clean with Pyrokinesis, Goblin Sharpshooter or Perish, so your strategy should support finding one of these. Note that Chalice of the Void seems effective on first sight but in practice they will often be able to play around that.
    Which version to pick: The WINSTIGATOR list is the better choice as it support your plan of finding (and casting) boardsweepers better. Also, with Warren Instigator you have a doublestrike-creature that can engage in combat situations more easily.
    Cards that support this strategy: Chrome Mox, Warren Instigator
    Meaningful SB cards: Goblin Sharpshooter, Pyrokinesis, Perish, Pithing Needle, Cabal Therapy, Grafdigger’s Cage

    UG Infect – even
    How the matchups works: Your priority in this MU is to destroy their infect-creatures. Use your removal in your turn to make them use their pump-spells to protect their creatures, rather than killing you. They can kill you with only 2 pumpspells, but most often they will have to use 3. Due to their lack of removal and the very small amount of countermagic they play, build up a threatening boardposition is relatively easy for you. Other than that, there is not much to watch out for. Make sure to play safe and steady – don’t get greedy or do anything risky. The MU is already quite shaky.
    Which version to pick: WINSTIGATOR is better by a mile. The fact that they can’t interact with you building up a boardposition makes them an easy prey for Lackey and Warren Instigator. Plus, running Chrome Moxen comes at basically no cost, as the card-disadvantage will not carry any weight.
    Cards that support this strategy: Goblin Lackey, Warren Instigator, Tarfire, Gempalm Incinerator, Stingscourge
    Meaningful SB cards: Goblin Sharpshooter, Pyrokinesis, Chalice of the Void, Pithing Needle, Blood Moon

    Death & Taxes – favorable
    How the matchups works: The worst thing that can happen is that they have an equipment at a moment when you can’t deal with it yet. This would be the case when they have Stoneforge Mystic on turn 2 and you can’t kill SFM before the equipment comes down. Try to grind them out, make favorable trades (or even one-for-ones). We have a cardadvantage engine, while Death & Taxes is only able to generate CA via equipments. Other potentially problematic cards in their deck are Mother of Runes and Phyrexian Revoker (which shuts down a range of valuable cards).
    Which version to pick: Both versions will do equally well. The WINSTIGATOR version has easier times going into profitable combat situations, while the CLASSIC list is better at grinding out games until you get keycards on the table.
    Cards that support this strategy: Tarfire, Krenko, Mob Boss, Mogg War Marshal
    Meaningful SB cards: Tuktuk Scrapper, Pithing Needle, Goblin Sharpshooter, Pyrokinesis

    RG Combo Lands – even
    How the matchups works: It is relatively easy to keep them off their combo-kill with an untapped Wasteland. It takes them quite some effort and setup-time to still push it through your untapped Wasteland. Stingscourger is another valuable asset , which can save you even after Marit Lage hits the board. On the other hand they have very effective means of keeping from winning, including Grove of the Burnwillows + Punishing Fire, Maze of Ith and Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale. Looking at all of this, your plan is to kill them as fast as possible, while having a Wasteland untapped. The longer the games lasts, the more likely they are to gain the upper hand. After G2 things don’t look so much different in their deck, but you will usually have a few cards to bring in.
    Which version to pick: The WINSTIGATOR list is the better choice, as it supports the plan of setting up a fast kill. Chrome MOX has no drawbacks in MUs where speed is your strongest asset. In addition to that Pendelhaven (which is more common in Winstigator builds) will mess with their Punishing Fire.
    Cards that support this strategy: Wasteland, Chrome Mox, Goblin Lackey, Warren Instigator, Goblin Piledriver, Stingscourger Pendelhaven.
    Meaningful SB cards: Blood Moon, Earwig Squad, Pithing Needle, Goblin Settler, Relic of Progenitus, Rest in Peace

    Sneak Show – slightly favorable
    How the matchups works: Get an Stingscourger or Goblin Matron on your hand as quickly as possible, as this will effectively shut down Show and Tell. The only card really left to care about is Sneak Attack. As with other combo decks, your plan is to kill they as fast as possible. Due to their lack of interaction with your setup (other than a little countermagic) you can usually go all-in. After Game 1 they will bring in some Pyroclasm and possibly Through the Breach (which work as additional copies of Sneak Attack). Your gameplan doesn’t change much though, only will you replace your spotremoval with some hatecards.
    Which version to pick: I don’t have experience with fighting this deck with the traditional list, but I assume both versions are well equipped to win. WINSTIGATOR’s strength is to end the game in a timely fashion, while the classic list has additional manadenial to delay the mana-intense winconditions of Sneak Attack and Through the Breach.
    Cards that support this strategy: Stingscourger, Goblin Matron, Chrome Mox, Goblin Lackey, Warren Instigator, Goblin Piledriver, Rishadan Port, Wasteland
    Meaningful SB cards: Pithing Needle, Goblin Settler, Cabal Therapy

    [Reanimator/TinFins – unfavorable
    How the matchups works: They can easily reanimate scary creatures on turn 2. Contrary to Stormdecks, their combo will not kill you on the same turn, but “only” make it very likely that they win. In game 1 you can get lucky and have Stingscourger in your opponing hand and they didn’t reanimate a creature that you can’t bounce (Iona#Red or Sphinx of the Steel Wind). However, this scenario will only buy you some time and doesn’t mean that you win. For G2 you can bring in some graveyard hate and/or combohate, while they won’t get any more dangerous than they already are.
    Which version to pick: If anything you can expect that the WINSTIGATOR list is better for this MU, but neither version will have good chances of winning.
    Cards that support this strategy: Stingscourger, Warren Weirding, Chrome Mox, Goblin Lackey, Warren Instigator, Goblin Piledriver
    Meaningful SB cards: any graveyard hate, Cabal Therapy, Chalice of the Void
    Last edited by GoboLord; 03-27-2016 at 08:10 PM.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  20. #9860
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    Olaf Forkbeard's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    My comparisons:

    Elves
    I'd put Grafdigger's cage in front of Pithing Needle in the list, simply to keep them in order of relevance. I actually think it's probably a little better than Perish, and a lot worse than Pyrokinesis, so it fits right in there. You just get some time to breath. No broken tutors, comes down early.

    U/G infect.
    I run the classic list, and I feel this match-up is pretty favorable. I'm curious to know what we differ on that makes the match-up feel so different.

    All of their creatures die to all of our removal. Just end of their turn kill their dudes. Unless they have the gold standard for getting in for lethal, they should be playing out like a delver deck with 1/1's, holding pump spells for removal. Their mana is also pretty fragile, Waste and Port do great work. Pyrokinesis and mana denial rock this match-up. Just respect the deck, count numbers and go with what's likely. Stop playing with "The Fear"

    D&T
    I think it's worth mentioning how much of a grind this match-up is, meaning experience will go very, very far in this match-up. Worth practicing.

    Lands
    I've always found this match-up to be noticeably negative, not even. I guess I'll playtest it more and come back here with more information.

    Sneak & Show
    "..Goblin Matron in your hand." not "on your hand."
    I think it's worth noting, this is a match-up where the diminishing returns on Stingscourger are non-existent. More is just better. Also Containment Priest is pretty good here.

    Reanimator
    I've won this match-up far more than I've lost it. Since their win con does take multiple turns you have the time to set up. The nightmare scenario is pretty rare (Iona, Shield of Emeria on turn 1, while you don't have Stingscourger & Aether Vial). They are hit harder than most decks by mana denial. Perhaps this has something to do with my sideboard though. I generally run Containment Priest as a 2 of.

    If I edit a post without an explanation, I am just correcting typos and / or formatting.
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