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Thread: [Deck] Goblins

  1. #2001
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    I just played against an interesting iteration of Goblins and lost 0-2. Albeit I was playing a deck with a bad Goblins matchup, but the deck was interesting none-the-less.

    The guy was running... wait for it... Goblin King. Mountainwalk is more relevant in the meta these days with more and more red around, right? But that's not all he was running... wait for it... Blood Moon. Blood Moon itself was what wrecked me game two, but I had an Elspeth down with four 1/1 tokens, and then blam, Mountainwalked right into Elspeth and then right into my face.

    I really liked the concept. There are several really good Goblins that benefit from lord pumps, namely Mogg War Marshal, but also Warren Instigator and Siege-Gang Commander. Albeit, I usually only run SGC as a one-of in most of my Goblin builds these days, but the Goblin swarm + lord pump is still interesting.

    Insert metacrusher Blood Moon. On its own, it wins games. Combined with Goblin King, it gets even better.

    I doubt I'd run more than 2 Goblin King's, and I'm not sure what the right number of Blood Moon's would be, or if they should even be maindecked...

    What do you guys think?
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  2. #2002

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    First time poster here but I do play alot of Goblins Legacy in the tourny room online. In my humble opinion Bloodmoon is a 3 of in the board, I have ran 3 forever and it has served me well. As far as goblin king goes I really can't say maybe a 1 of Mb. Then 1 in the sb with your Bloodmoons? It is and interesting idea at the very least. This is my Decklist.

    4x Wasteland
    4x Bloodstained Mire
    4x Wooded Foothills
    10x Mountains

    4x Aether Vial

    4x Goblin Lackey
    4x Tarfire
    4x Warren Instagator
    3x Mogg War Marshall
    1x Goblin Piledriver
    4x Goblin Cheftain
    4x Goblin Matron
    3x Gempalm Incinerator
    4x Goblin Ringleader
    1x Tuk Tuk Scrapper
    2 Seige Gang Commander

    Sideboard
    4x Chalice of the Void
    3x Bloodmoon
    1x Goblin Sharpshooter
    1x Tuk Tuk Scrapper
    1x Vexing Shusher
    3x Relic of Progenitous
    2x Umezawa's Jitte

    As you can see I basically give up on combo matches, though chalice for 0 or 1 can be pretty good. But in return I do very well vs zoo and mav and also fairly well vs most blue midrange control decks. I have the sacs to splash any color black for wierding or green for tin street and grips in the board. What do you guys think?

  3. #2003

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Goblin king , is really good against rug delver ,- nice goyf!! there you cant block my instigator! - , but he is nothing spectacular vs other matchups not running mountains , and MD blood moon , only for him , seems risky , but maybe can work , tons of deck just scoops to bloodmoon itselfs , by the way why dragon stompy isnt played!? bloodmoon is just a overpowered effect in todays meta.

  4. #2004
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    I just played against an interesting iteration of Goblins and lost 0-2. Albeit I was playing a deck with a bad Goblins matchup, but the deck was interesting none-the-less.

    The guy was running... wait for it... Goblin King. Mountainwalk is more relevant in the meta these days with more and more red around, right? But that's not all he was running... wait for it... Blood Moon. Blood Moon itself was what wrecked me game two, but I had an Elspeth down with four 1/1 tokens, and then blam, Mountainwalked right into Elspeth and then right into my face.

    I really liked the concept. There are several really good Goblins that benefit from lord pumps, namely Mogg War Marshal, but also Warren Instigator and Siege-Gang Commander. Albeit, I usually only run SGC as a one-of in most of my Goblin builds these days, but the Goblin swarm + lord pump is still interesting.

    Insert metacrusher Blood Moon. On its own, it wins games. Combined with Goblin King, it gets even better.

    I doubt I'd run more than 2 Goblin King's, and I'm not sure what the right number of Blood Moon's would be, or if they should even be maindecked...

    What do you guys think?
    I'd much rather have Goblin Chieftain than Goblin King...haste is relevant much more often than mountainwalk. Mogg War Marshal is really only good at chump blocking, even with a lord. I'd much rather have a Warren Instigator in that slot and force my opponent to have an answer.

    As for Blood Moon, there have been 3 in and out of my board pretty much since I put this deck together. I find that they are in more often than they are out...and everyone seems really surprised to see them.

    I've never thought to main deck them for one reason: Goblin Ringleader. Not to mention that there are a non-zero number of matchups where it is just a dead card. It is definitely something people should consider out of the board as mana bases get greedier and people start to run even less basic lands.

  5. #2005
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    I wasn't suggesting running Goblin King instead of Chieftan. I was suggesting to run them both. Somthing like a 4/2 split or something. 2 King seems sufficient since the deck can Matron it up if it wants to make all of its guys unblockable. Then maybe another 2 more in the board or something. MWM turns into two 2/2's for 1R with a lord in play, which is really good, and even better when that 4 damage is unblockable.

    I'm not sure what the numbers should look like without a bunch if testing, or whether or not Blood Moon main is worth it. That's why I brought it up for discussion. It does *seem* better as a sideboard card, but I'm not entirely sure that's the case. MD Moon wrecks a lot of decks right now, and it has amazing synergy with Goblin King.
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  6. #2006
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    I wasn't suggesting running Goblin King instead of Chieftan. I was suggesting to run them both. Somthing like a 4/2 split or something. 2 King seems sufficient since the deck can Matron it up if it wants to make all of its guys unblockable. Then maybe another 2 more in the board or something. MWM turns into two 2/2's for 1R with a lord in play, which is really good, and even better when that 4 damage is unblockable.

    I'm not sure what the numbers should look like without a bunch if testing, or whether or not Blood Moon main is worth it. That's why I brought it up for discussion. It does *seem* better as a sideboard card, but I'm not entirely sure that's the case. MD Moon wrecks a lot of decks right now, and it has amazing synergy with Goblin King.
    I'm not sure this deck benefits from running 6 lords. I think if King has a place it's in the board, and even then only against certain match ups.

    As for War Marshal, he doesn't actually do anything, which is a big negative in his column. Assuming we don't touch the "core", take a look at the other creatures recent lists have been running:

    Gempalm Incinerator - Straight removal.

    Stingscourger - Answers many threats that we otherwise can't reasonably deal with.

    TukTuk Scrapper - Artifact hate in the main deck is really important in the current meta given the number of W/x decks running around with Stoneforge Mystics and Batterskull.

    Tarfire - Kills a large number of problem creatures. Also gives us a little bit of reach for those last couple points of damage.

    I don't see how Goblin King or Mogg War Marshal is better in any of those slots. In a post board game the king may be relevant, particularly if you expect something like Engineered Plague or Firespout out of your opponent...but against an unknown deck I would much rather have the versatility offered by the cards listed above than a random lord. If the meta shifts back to Zoo style decks War Marshal gets much better...but I'm just not seeing that right now.

  7. #2007

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Do not underestimate MWM. He pumps gempalms, chieftains pump the extra goblin, Siege Gangs can sac them for 2 damage, sharpshooters as well, he adds to piledrivers. He helps recover from board sweepers. In fact he is central to a goblin swarm with chieftains strategy which is mono red aggresive. I play 3 MWM, 3 Instigators, and 3 Piledrivers as my 2 drops ( Tinkerer and Stingscourger SB ) and with Tarfires and fanatics with Gemplams for removal, my lackeys and instigators have more chance of connecting into chieftains, matrons, ringleaders and siege gangs. Early board pressure from Swarm Goblins, made possible with MWM.

    4 Tarfire
    4 Mogg Fanatic
    4 Lackey
    3 MWM
    3 Instigators
    3 Piledrivers
    3 Gempalms
    4 Chieftains
    4 Matrons
    4 Ringleaders

    18 Mountains
    4 Wastelands


    SB
    4 Aether Vials
    2 Tormods Crypt
    2 Relic
    3 Pyrokinesis
    Tinkerer
    Stingscourger
    Sharpshooter
    Tuktuk Scrapper

    Ringleaders are more effective, basic lands can't be stifled, and aether vials can replace mogg fantastics / tarfire if versus control. The idea of swarm goblins is to put on early pressure with must answer lackeys, instigators, piledrivers and chieftains, backed up by removal to get goblins through to drop matrons and ringleaders or SGC.
    2 SGC

  8. #2008

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    yeah i missed off 2 Siege Gang commanders from the above list!!!!!!!! add them for 60 cards.

  9. #2009
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    I'm agreeing with Davran...
    Goblin King in the sideboard if at all. Blood Moon is great against the DTB but Burn, Elves, and U/R Delver have been doing quite well and the card is dead against them. I like it in the board right now in case it's a dead card in the match.
    My experience with Mogg War Marshal is as a defensive card for when the meta is filled with faster aggro or bigger threats. I like Warren Instigator better right now.

    It's not so much that I think Aether Vial is holy... I've completely cut it in testing and dropped it to 3 for an event. But I cannot imagine playing Vial Goblins with the Vial's in the sideboard (for all the reasons Davran and others mentioned).
    @ Orcanmail - It sounds like your meta is full of combo. If I had a 50+% chance of playing combo each round, I'd want my vial's out of the maindeck too. However in most meta's I'd say that's a poor call.

    @ScatmanX - Is Word of Seizing better than Act of Aggression? Act seems better in most situations I can think of other than as a top deck late game.
    I've been using your list against the Stoneforge Mystic decks around here with a high success rate. It sounds like you are still searching/testing to fill 2 spots in your list. May I recommend Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker? I've spoken out AGAINST him in the past, but having access to him is like giving Goblins a Snapcaster Mage. He gets into play through Instigator -> Matron most times and by that point he's getting you your next goblin card already.

  10. #2010
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    @ScatmanX - Is Word of Seizing better than Act of Aggression? Act seems better in most situations I can think of other than as a top deck late game.
    I've been using your list against the Stoneforge Mystic decks around here with a high success rate. It sounds like you are still searching/testing to fill 2 spots in your list. May I recommend Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker? I've spoken out AGAINST him in the past, but having access to him is like giving Goblins a Snapcaster Mage. He gets into play through Instigator -> Matron most times and by that point he's getting you your next goblin card already.
    I was not really serious about Word of Seizing, but it is certainly better than Act. You can grab a Batterskull (not only the Germ token), you can Grab Jace with 12 counters on it and win, you can grab a Mother of Runes and give one of your guys Pro G/W to swing, then kill it with anything. You can even take a Fetchland that someone would pop to use Swords on your combat step. And being uncouterable and unrespondable is just awesome in today's meta...
    That said, I'm not going to play it for now. Maybe on the next small tournament I go.

    About the 2 missing slots: Yes, you can suggest Kiki, and that's the card I had in right now. That and the 3rd Gempalm (along with 2 Stingscourgers).
    The only thing I want to figure out right now is if the deck can benefit from running 1/2 Chrome Mox, or the Tarfires can slow down the game enough so we don't need it.

    @Blood Moon / Goblin king thing: It may work sometimes, but it seem too "cute" right now, and is something I don't think we need. I mean, in what MU's it would be relevant? And also, taking a removal on your King once you attack with your team hurts today just as much as it hurt on the past, and is something I don't want to be doing.
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  11. #2011

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    I've been testing out a different list over the past few days on MTGO. I'm not convinced it is stronger than the MR list currently accepted, but it has been interesting. The following are the changes I've tried.

    -4 mountains, +4 chrome mox
    -4 vial, -4 tarfire, +4 chalice of the void, +4 goblins of your choice (I've tested 2X MWM and 2X goblin king most heavily...goblin kings performed poorly, searching for another two slots to replace them).

    First, the moxes. I believe the current MR build benefits more from chrome mox than when it has been tried in the past. It obviously plays well with instigator, and seems to play better with chieftain than war chief. Chieftain builds just seem more viable with having to discard a goblin, versus war chiefs. The turn 1 openers help, but just as useful is being able to hit your 3cc slot on turn 2. 3 may be the correct number, but they really do allow for some broken openings, and the chieftain builds seem better able to recover from card advantage than the previous ones running piledriver/warchief.

    Secondly, dropping non-lackey t1 plays for adding a MB chalice. When i prepared to test the changes, I assumed I would miss vial most. In practice, I've missed the tarfires much more. The deck runs low on removal (even with 4 gempalms and 1-2 stings) without it, and there are plenty of times which you wish you had a tarfire for a delver/mancer/bob/MoM/stoneforge/etc. The moxes help compensate for the lack of removal to a degree, as it allows you to utilize more aggressive openings. Also, not pumping goyfs can be usefull. Nevertheless, relying on 4 removal (which is slow and circumstantial) and 1-2 bounce has been an issue.

    MB chalice will need more testing. It wrecks many decks in the format, as most decks have their curve weighted low. Often times, it makes 1/3 to 1/2 of the cards in their deck dead - especially removal - and works great against snapcasters. Yet, it obviously has weak MUs as well. It isn't great in the mirror, and is all but dead to (some versions more than others) metalworker decks.

    The biggest boon of MD chalice is that it gives goblins a shot in many combo MUs. It does limit what you can run in your board (cranial, extripate, pyro/REB, relics, etc.), yet it makes many of the MUs the hate is there for better. Simply boarding out the tarfires/vials for chalice would be another option, but chalice seems to work best while running chrome mox.

    There is obviously a cost to all of this. The MUs which are traditionally the best for goblins (control decks with heavy elements of blue), are harmed by the changes. The card disadvantage from chrome mox, and not having a vial in these MUs both hurt. And as stated, the lack of removal is an issue. Nevertheless, the current setup has performed better than I had initially expected, and seems to give goblins a chance in some of its worst MUs.

    In any case, if anyone else would like to test the current configuration and let me know the results, it would be appreciated. I will post my full list later if anyone is interested - it is still in flux. Again, I am not claiming the list is preferable (or even equivalent) to the present standard. The results, however, have been encouraging, and better than one would initially expect.

  12. #2012
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    It's not so much that I think Aether Vial is holy... I've completely cut it in testing and dropped it to 3 for an event. But I cannot imagine playing Vial Goblins with the Vial's in the sideboard (for all the reasons Davran and others mentioned).
    @ Orcanmail - It sounds like your meta is full of combo. If I had a 50+% chance of playing combo each round, I'd want my vial's out of the maindeck too. However in most meta's I'd say that's a poor call.
    In a metagame where there's too much combo to run Vials in the maindeck, you should reconsider why you're playing Goblins at all.

  13. #2013
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    @Chuck: Nice to see you're trying something new. Try going to a tournament with it to see how it goes. I guess Swapping Vials for Moxes will make you flood, so I'd cut 1-2 Mountains.
    Concerning removal, you could replace Tarfire with some 2cc goblins, like Sparksmith, Ember Hauler, os splash B for Warren Weirdings. And even something like 1-2 Arc Trail or Sudden Shock.

    If Chalice is worth playing, do you think 1-2 Thorn of Amethyst could be Chalice5-6?

    Hope to hear some news soon.

    Edit: hell, if you constantly reach 4 mana by turn 3, even Murderous Redcap could kill a Stonefoge.
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  14. #2014

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    does anybody play the kiki-jiki/lightning crafter combo? is it satisfying enough?
    I did some testing with aeter vial in sideboard and food chain MD and a full playset of both kiki-jiki and lightning crafter. Also, I played 4 ancient tomb and 3 chrome mox. I have to admit that I playtested only against maverick but it s very promising something like 80-90% wins. The AVAILABILITY of a combo engine (extra win condition) capable of killing turn 3-4 (even T2 with the ideal hand) is great. The problem of lackey not connecting against creatures decks is much less of a concern and there is even the possibility of racing combo decks.
    Didn t test with control decks yes but I guess that the possibility of having aeter vial/REB/Leyline of Lifeforce shouldn t make it a big problem. The deck is able to play similarly to a normal vial list anyway

  15. #2015

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by ScatmanX View Post
    @Chuck: Nice to see you're trying something new. Try going to a tournament with it to see how it goes. I guess Swapping Vials for Moxes will make you flood, so I'd cut 1-2 Mountains.
    Concerning removal, you could replace Tarfire with some 2cc goblins, like Sparksmith, Ember Hauler, os splash B for Warren Weirdings. And even something like 1-2 Arc Trail or Sudden Shock.

    If Chalice is worth playing, do you think 1-2 Thorn of Amethyst could be Chalice5-6?

    Hope to hear some news soon.

    Edit: hell, if you constantly reach 4 mana by turn 3, even Murderous Redcap could kill a Stonefoge.
    Warren Weirding seems to be the obvious choice, and perhaps I will try a black splash for it. I am hesitant to splash with moxes (it seems they wreak enough havoc on the deck without worrying about discarding a red card for RR to play an instigator), but it appears to be the best option.

    I like the idea of thorns, and against combo they would be somewhat simliar - each would slow down the deck. Against control (or typical 3 color blue decks), however, chalice turns out to be more of a CA piece, as it will make a third of many decks completely dead. It usually works out to be a weird form of eventual CA.

    I am also weary about going over the traditional 25/6 non-goblins in the deck, but I will try a few different things with my builds. I lack the cards to splash online, and I lack the chrome moxes in paper, but perhaps I will snatch a few up. In any case, I will post future dailies online, or when i compete in RL events with the modified lists.

  16. #2016
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by fimo View Post
    does anybody play the kiki-jiki/lightning crafter combo? is it satisfying enough?
    I did some testing with aeter vial in sideboard and food chain MD and a full playset of both kiki-jiki and lightning crafter. Also, I played 4 ancient tomb and 3 chrome mox. I have to admit that I playtested only against maverick but it s very promising something like 80-90% wins. The AVAILABILITY of a combo engine (extra win condition) capable of killing turn 3-4 (even T2 with the ideal hand) is great. The problem of lackey not connecting against creatures decks is much less of a concern and there is even the possibility of racing combo decks.
    Didn t test with control decks yes but I guess that the possibility of having aeter vial/REB/Leyline of Lifeforce shouldn t make it a big problem. The deck is able to play similarly to a normal vial list anyway
    There was a thread about food chain goblins a while back. I played the deck on a tournament some years ago.
    I ran 4 Food Chain, Lackey, Instigator, Matron, Ringleader, Warchief
    3 Kiki-Jiki, Lightning Crafter
    2 Siege-Gang, Piledriver, Skirk Prospector
    1 Sharpshooter, Goblin Pyromancer.
    lands/moxes
    I guess it was something like that.

    The deck has hability to go off T2 with a hand of Mox, red card, Taiga, Ancient Tomb, Food Chain, Matron, and I did it twice in that tournament, once trough a Trinisphere.

    Though the deck is awesome, it is quite inconsistent, and is hurt more by removal and counterspell, since you don't have Vial.
    I'd suggest you to try it out. is hell of fun, and NO ONE will see it coming.
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  17. #2017
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    For those removing Vial from the main list, has anyone considered running Grafdigger's Cage on that slot? It shuts down anything from Reanimator to Green Sun's Zenith to Snapcaster.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
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  18. #2018
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    ...not to mention that it it's like a kick in the balls for Dredge.
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  19. #2019
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord View Post
    ...not to mention that it it's like a kick in the balls for Dredge.
    Nice to see you back mister.

    But Grafdigger's Cage is everything a Dredge player wants to see in a hate-sideboard. It doesn't stop dredge from building it's graveyard, and it can be blown out with ease.

    Still, for goblins it's a good card, as it stops Snapcaster Mage, Green Sun's Zenith (and Natural Order, to a lesser extent).

    I'd say a split with Tormod's Crypt would be as good as it can be. Something like 3~2 Cage/Crypt
    Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return

  20. #2020

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    I am wondering there is still a case for Mogg Fanatic, it isn't all that exciting but it still can deal with plenty of naughty creatures, Dark Confidant, Noble Hierarch, Delver etc. It let us keep Tar Fire in reserve and keep the goblin count up for Gempalms. However, it is rather silly to play it as 1-of. Maybe Ember Hauler would be more appropriate.

    What about some of the old favourites like Bloodmark Mentor, Spikeshot Elder? I think it is really a good idea to play with a 1-of either Goblin Sharpshooter, Lightning Crafter, Sparksmith or Spikeshot Elder in every deck.They are running removal or can ping the opponent every turn. Spikeshot is looking more and more attractive now with the Chieftains, but finding mana for it in early turns might slow us down too much.

    I would love to play Wort, Boggart Auntie or Boggart Mob but I want to stay mono red. Not sure if they are playable just using the vials? Thoughts about this?

    I am also wondering about some other techy goblins that is possible as an 1-of. Goblin Shortcutter, Intimidator Initiate, Thick-Skinned Goblin, Akki Underminer, Caterwauling Boggart, Zo-zu The Punisher, Tuktuk the Explorer, Murderous Redcap. All of them have some degree of playability but I suppose a right fit must be found.

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