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Thread: [Deck] Goblins

  1. #2721

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Pee-Dee-2 View Post
    Metamorph: I like this card. I remember the day, I defeated a Goblindeck playing Lackey into SGC, by playing 2 Metamorphs copying the SGC. But I don't see this guy in Goblindecks. It isn't a Goblin (Ringleadercount) and can not be searched by a Matron. If you want to haves answers against opponent's fatties or equipment, Scrapper and Stingscourger are better.
    I ran 2 Metamorph in the sideboard for awhile last year. In general, they came in against Reanimator. Metamorph acted as an additional out to Iona naming red. The other being Vial+Stingscourger.

    At the moment, Iona does not represent the most frightening of targets. I think I would rather be on the Stingscourger plan since it provides greater utility at a lower cost.

    If Progenitus were to replace Emrakul in Show decks, I could see playing Metamorph again.
    "If magic is your crutch, cast it aside and learn to walk without it." —Teferi

  2. #2722

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    On Cavern of Souls.

    I've ran 4x Cavern twice now. A small 4-rounder and a 6-rounder with Top 8. In general, Cavern came out as a positive. Several matches became significantly easier by blanking their counter magic.

    I have become pretty used to the rock solid basic Mountains mana base. Spoiled, perhaps. It will take some time adapt to playing Cavern. In about 30 games, I have had one loss directly related to having just one Mountain and a stack of Waste'd Caverns in the graveyard. I've also had several games where I've had to adjust my pace. With an open Wasteland across the table and two mountains on my side, waiting for a third mountain, then Cavern to allow a turn with four mana.
    "If magic is your crutch, cast it aside and learn to walk without it." —Teferi

  3. #2723
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinSettler View Post

    If Progenitus were to replace Emrakul in Show decks, I could see playing Metamorph again.

    Actually, Griselbrand is the one showing up nowadays. Stingscourger deals with him better because it isn't as janky as metamorph.

  4. #2724
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Participated in 38 ppl tournament, sadly due to not enough sleep I dont remember much from matches so i will just summarize. Went aganist: combo elves (2-1), maverick(2-1), goblins(2-1), sneaky show (2-1), team america (2-0), then draw with bant since i will be first and start in every match in top8 - rug delver (2-1) and top4 bant (0-2) ending 3rd in the end. I ran my classic list (post #2537) with upgraded sideboard:
    1 tuktuk
    1 siege-gang commander
    3 pyroblast
    2 pyrokinesis
    2 krosan grip
    4 leyline of the void
    2 relic of progenitus

    I still don't play caverns because they are expensive as hell and even if I had them I would have played two at best...As always maindeck was superb even though I mulliganed a lot and made some mistakes (miscounting attack and let opponent play although he was dead) I managed 6-1-1.

  5. #2725

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    can anybody please convince me why wastelands are superior to ports in a goblin deck (with warchief)?

    I m starting thinking that if i only dedicated 4 sloths to mana denaial I would run ports over wastelands. Goblins have such a high curve that often you miss the 2 drop or the 3 drop or the 4 drop. In those turns you can keep your opponent off mana with ports. However, you still want to have that mana denial land at your next turn to drop the bigger goblin you have in your hand. Sometimes I feel I am auto-mana-screwing myself with wasteland because I am always happy to have many lands down, it allows me to be explosive all of a sudden when i cast a ringleader or a warchief.
    I understand that a deck like merfolk would rather play wasteland because they do everything with 2 islands and they dont need colorless mana. On the other hand, goblins need more than 2 lands and can do good use of colorless mana. Moreover, my opponents aways fetch basics against me...

    Please, exlain me why I am wrong, why would you play 4 wastelands over 4 ports?

  6. #2726
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by fimo View Post
    can anybody please convince me why wastelands are superior to ports in a goblin deck (with warchief)?

    I m starting thinking that if i only dedicated 4 sloths to mana denaial I would run ports over wastelands. Goblins have such a high curve that often you miss the 2 drop or the 3 drop or the 4 drop. In those turns you can keep your opponent off mana with ports. However, you still want to have that mana denial land at your next turn to drop the bigger goblin you have in your hand. Sometimes I feel I am auto-mana-screwing myself with wasteland because I am always happy to have many lands down, it allows me to be explosive all of a sudden when i cast a ringleader or a warchief.
    I understand that a deck like merfolk would rather play wasteland because they do everything with 2 islands and they dont need colorless mana. On the other hand, goblins need more than 2 lands and can do good use of colorless mana. Moreover, my opponents aways fetch basics against me...

    Please, exlain me why I am wrong, why would you play 4 wastelands over 4 ports?
    First things first: thank for this question. That's someting I havn't thought of yet!
    But still I can defend our valuable Wastelands here.

    Those colorless lands we use (Port and Wastes) are termed "manadenial" because that's what they have in common. However, Wasteland is a little different from Port in this regard because it does more than Port. There are some lands that give Goblins hard times, which are virtually immune to Ports:
    * Grove of Burnwillows
    * Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    * Academy Ruins
    * Volrath's Stronghold

    So, as you can see, those lands are not targeted to force our opponent into mana-screw (which is why we cannot speak of "manadenial" here.
    Sure you can argue that 3/4 of those are not too common - but here is another argument:
    Sometimes you want to shut your opponent off a certain color (or a certain amount of mana) permanently. This is where Wasteland is better than Port, since with Port you constantly need 2 mana (i.e. two lands) to do this whil with Wasteland you spend only 1 mana (1 land).

    That's all I can think of for now, maybe others have some good arguments for or against Wastelands over Ports too.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  7. #2727

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    An other pro Wasteland contra Port point would be opposing Wastelands.
    Example: You're playing vs Maverick and he has a Maze out which hinders you, with a Wasteland of yours the problem is solved.
    With Port you can tap the Maze before attacking thats true, but only so long till the Maverick player fetches a Wasteland with his Kotr and destroys your Port.

  8. #2728
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Has there been a drastic change in manabases lately? Back about 9-12 months ago, monored Goblins didn't leave home without 23-24 lands. Now I'm looking at lists that are running 21-22. Even with Lackey, Vial, and Warchief, we still are a very mana hungry deck that is almost always tapping out completely (casting dudes, Porting opponents, Wasteland sets us back on mana, etc).

  9. #2729
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    Has there been a drastic change in manabases lately? Back about 9-12 months ago, monored Goblins didn't leave home without 23-24 lands. Now I'm looking at lists that are running 21-22. Even with Lackey, Vial, and Warchief, we still are a very mana hungry deck that is almost always tapping out completely (casting dudes, Porting opponents, Wasteland sets us back on mana, etc).
    Decklists back then runned only 8 1cmc and mostly only piledrivers and one stingscourgers as 2cmc, not to mention that almost everyone played 4 ports. Right now fanatic, tarfire, mwm, winstigator and pyrokinesis joined the party and whole mana curve lowered a bit. As for me I never played more than 22 lands...

  10. #2730
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Hi guys,

    today I won a GPT for Ghent with this list:

    //Lands
    4 Wasteland
    4 Cavern of Souls
    13 Mountain

    //Creatures
    4 Goblin Lackey
    2 Goblin Piledriver
    2 Stingscourger
    3 Mogg War Marshal
    4 Goblin Warchief
    3 Goblin Chieftain
    4 Goblin Matron
    3 Gempalm Incinerator
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    2 Siege-Gang Commander

    //Other
    2 Tarfire
    2 Pyrokinesis
    4 Aether Vial


    //Sideboard
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Leyline of the Void
    3 Sulfuric Vortex
    2 Pyrokinesis
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    1 Anarchy

    Here are my results

    1st Round: 2:1 against Maverick
    2nd Round: 2:0 against U/B/G Deedstill
    3rd Round: 2:1 against Canadian Thresh (thx to Chalive@1)
    4rd Round: 01 against U/B/W Walker Control
    5th Round: 11 against Esperblade
    6th Round: 2:0 against U/W Terminator

    afterwards I was in the top 8:

    7th (Quarter final) Round: 2:1 against Goblins

    8th (half final) Round: 2:0 agsinst Canadian (thanks to Chalice@1)

    9th (The final) Round: 2:0 against the Esperblade I played against in round number 5th

    The deck works nice and I wouldn't make changes at the moment.
    Last edited by Pee-Dee-2; 06-10-2012 at 08:38 PM.

  11. #2731
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Pee-Dee-2 View Post
    Deck + result
    Congrats man!
    That deck list is great. I have one written here that have only 5 cards apart from it. The 4th Chieftain, htat is a Kiki, the 2nd Tarfire, that is a Tuktuk, and your 4-6 Mogg Warmarchall, that are Gempalm 1-3 (=p).

    I find it weird that you have 0 SB cards for Sneak and Show. Hasn't that popped up in your area?
    Do you thing 1-2 Ports could have worked on that list?
    Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.

  12. #2732
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Oh yes, the Incinerators..., I edited them. About the questions: Sneak Show isn't seen very often, that's true.

    I always have problems to find the right SB cards against it. Pyroblast could be one but I don't like them, stealing slots.

    What could be right cards and what could be done out. It's very difficult...

    My two cents about the ports, I wrote some posts above. In a meta with a high count of Wastes and 9 mainboard cards, which need double r, ports are not my favorites. I like them really but in this case, they are to risky. In future, I will test them, but not more than two copies of them.

  13. #2733
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Pee-Dee-2 View Post
    I always have problems to find the right SB cards against it. Pyroblast could be one but I don't like them, stealing slots.

    What could be right cards and what could be done out. It's very difficult...

    My two cents about the ports, I wrote some posts above. In a meta with a high count of Wastes and 9 mainboard cards, which need double r, ports are not my favorites. I like them really but in this case, they are to risky. In future, I will test them, but not more than two copies of them.
    Thanks!
    Forgot to ask:
    Where did you side in Vortex?
    How were they?

    Edit:Actually, Vortex *could be useful against Grizzlebrand.
    If it does not have lifelink, then, against an agroo deck like us against them, it is "nothing more" then a flying 7/7...
    Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.

  14. #2734
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Krenko, Mob Boss 2RR
    Legendary Goblin Warrior
    Tap: Put X 1/1 red goblin creature tokens onto the battlefield, where X is the number of Goblins you control.
    3/3

    Link to photo

    Seems playable! Win moar with more goblins!

  15. #2735
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Krenko, Mob Boss 2RR
    Legendary Goblin Warrior
    Tap: Put X 1/1 red goblin creature tokens onto the battlefield, where X is the number of Goblins you control.
    3/3

    Link to photo

    Seems playable! Win moar with more goblins!
    It does seems playable. Breaking ground stalls easily.
    Need to think if it is better than anything we're running though... But I like it.
    Also, having a 3/3 goblin is nice for once...

    For those who like fast kills:
    T1 Lackey
    T2 swing, drop Krenko, play MWM
    T3 play Chieftain, tap Krenko for 5 goblins, swing for 18.
    (whithout Piledriver/SGC/Warchief...)
    Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.

  16. #2736

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    @ wasteland vr port: I don t think those arguments are good enough to generalize playing wasteland over ports in any goblin list. The real reasons to play wastelands would be (1) to get rid of particular problematic lands (Grove of Burnwillows) and (2) that ports can get wasted. I don t think that being able to keep your opponent off a color with one wasteland is necessarily better than using port+another land:
    - ports can hit basic land which often is a huge deal
    - If you miss your 2 or 3 drop you often have another free land to activate port
    - having an extra land after resolving a ringleader is a HUGE advantage in my experience. That land would be gone if it was a wasteland.
    - Maverick laughs at wastelands. It s almost an advantage for them if we waste their lands since: they need less lands than us, they have mana producing creatures, their knight gets bigger, they can use their wastelands on cavern of souls (ouch!) rather than on ports (can get US manascrew).

    The 2 good reasons for preferring wastelands:

    (1)Regarding getting rid of problematic lands: as you say GoboLord those 3/4 of those lands you listed are not played. I would actually say 4/4 since printing of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben made punishing maverick obsolete.
    (2)A good point for running wastelands over ports would be that your lands cannot get wasted but the printing of cavern of souls have changed that since they can direct their wastelands to our caverns.

    Therefore, in a cavern of souls mana base I see ports fitting better while in a mountain-only mana base I could see wastelands better in.

    @Pee-Dee-2: congratulations!

    @new goblin: if they gave him haste would be it. However, worth testing.

  17. #2737
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    I also played a Grand prix trial yesterday. Mine didn't go as well tho :roll eyes:
    list:
    12 mountain
    4 cavern
    4 wasteland

    25 core(-1piley)
    4 incinerator
    2 stingscourger
    2 tarfire
    3 mogg war marshall
    1 goblin chieftain
    1 skirk prospector
    1 goblin sharpshooter
    1 tuktuk

    side:
    4 chalice
    3 pyroblast
    3 relic
    2 pithing needle
    2 pyrokinesis
    1 tuktuk

    Round 1 against Maverick
    Grindy games, which I end up winning 2-1.

    Round 2 against ANT
    I win game 1 due to wasteland and him not finding gas. Game 2 and 3 I don't find my chalices and lose on turn 3.

    Round 3 against Merfolk
    Should be a bye, but after keeping a 1 lander on the draw I proceed to not draw lands for 5 turns and get overwhelmed by lords.
    Game 2 I make an insane misplay of playing my pyrokinesis into a daze, would have easily won the game otherwise.

    Round 4 against UW Miracle
    Both games I get lethal on board, declare attack and he has the Entreat the angels + swords for like 6 angels and the removal on my chieftain.

    Still, was my first tournament with goblins. Funny stuff: I never had lackey in my opening hand all day. However there are some things I am going to change to my list.

    Im cutting the 1 offs for more chieftains and pyrokinesis main deck. I just hate opening hands like mountain mountain cavern skirk prospector tuktuk etc. When the new goblin is released I might move 1 stingscourger to the sideboard for him tho, because I think with 7 Haste lords he is good enough to deserve a spot. Im going to cut 1 piledriver for my 13th mountain, just to balance stuff out a bit.

    Sideboard wise:
    I was completely unimpressed with pyroblast, So I will be cutting those for sulfuric vortex/pyrokinesis.

    List now:
    13 mountain
    4 cavern
    4 waste

    Core: 24 (-2 piley)
    3 goblin chieftain
    3 mogg war marshall
    3 incinerator
    2 pyrokinesis
    2 tarfire
    2 stingscourger (might move 1 to SB when the new goblin is legal)

    Side:
    4 chalice
    4 leyline of the void (relic wasn't good for me, against maverick I rather have anarchy, against RUG: I rather board in chalice)
    2 pithing needle
    2 Sulfuric vortex
    2 anarchy
    1 tuk tuk scrappers


    Comments?

  18. #2738
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by ScatmanX View Post
    It does seems playable. Breaking ground stalls easily.
    Need to think if it is better than anything we're running though... But I like it.
    Also, having a 3/3 goblin is nice for once...

    For those who like fast kills:
    T1 Lackey
    T2 swing, drop Krenko, play MWM
    T3 play Chieftain, tap Krenko for 5 goblins, swing for 18.
    (whithout Piledriver/SGC/Warchief...)
    hold your horses, whats he going to replace? the 4cc slot is pretty tight and we aren't going to remove any ringleaders.

  19. #2739
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Hey, your new list is nearly up to mine ;)

    @Wastelands vs Ports: There are some pros and cons for both. IMO Wastelands are better because you don't have to spend 2 mana all the time in it to shot someones manabase down. Furthermore, if you want do colourscrew someone (for example by Watse/Port a Tundra), Waste is better. The land is gone and sometimes they'll don't find the f.e. "Plains" again. by using a port each turn, they easyly kann play a Swords to plowshares during their upkeep.

    @Krenko: Hmm...should be tested. He can be nice but also win more. With enough hasters, he could be better than Piledriver. For sure, Piledriver gets +2/+0 and Krenko makes 1/1 Goblin which is less damage, but on the other side, many little green men are more difficult to block than a big Piledriver. Here you can force more damage but he still costs 2 more mana than Piledriver (and has no protection from Delver). Very interesting card.

    Do we get some liitle playable cheap ones? I hope so, although we have no deckspace anymore ;)

  20. #2740
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Pee-Dee-2 View Post
    Hey, your new list is nearly up to mine ;)

    Do we get some liitle playable cheap ones? I hope so, although we have no deckspace anymore ;)
    Haha yeah, only difference is that I really need to answer Sneak & Show, since that it played quite a bit here.

    I also hope we get a playable 1 or 2 cmc gobbo

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