I guess if all else fails you can drop seal off SnT and hope they just have Emrakul and not Gbrand
?Originally Posted by B-rad
Then you die to a 15/15 Spagheti.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
a wild pastafarianist appears!
anyway, just so I don't go offtopic, follows the (weird) sideboard I could manage for tonight:
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Slaughter Games
2 Pithing Needle
1 Pyrokinesis
1 Angel of Despair
1 Krosan Grip
1 Stingscourger
1 Tin Street Hooligan
Why so many 2-ofs and singletons? Cause I still don't have the playsets, that's why (much of the stuff I ordered hasn't arrived yet).
My main splashes for 2 Badlands and 2 Taigas with 6 fetches, since I opted out of the white splash this time. Besides, I set aside the discard suite I was planning on using (4 cabal therapies, to go with my war marshalls).
Is any particular card of interest?
I think these are two different methods of sideboarding, both valid. You can run cards to improve fair matchups you can already win, and cross your finger not to play against impossible matchups ( like storm or belcher), or you can run cards against the unfair matchups to have some chances to win,and fight the fair matchups only with your main deck.Serum Powder can be useful only with the second method.
Anyway if you don't want to only cross your finger against belcher or storm, a good option is Mindbreak trap. I considered to run it instead of Chalice of the Void, but I opted for the chalice because is good also against Burn and Elves.
Regarding the sideboard suggested by jrw ( 3 serum Powder, 3 Leyline, 3 angel of despair), I initially thought of building my side this way, but then i realized that the card i want to see is not serum Powder, but Angel or Leyline. I think the real-hate card should always remain a 4-of, while serum powder is only a method to find it.
It's true that you want your hate card instead of Serum Powder, but you can count Serum Powder as a one of your hate card. It's almost the same thing when you have E.Tutor sidebord. Now you can play less copies of those hate cards because SP allows you you "tutor" those hate cards by mulliganing. I think on those unfair MU it's irrelevant if you have to remove your hand because you really need those hate cards.
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...23969576_n.jpg
look what i got!
Great Foil Brad :)
I dont see as a tutor, more like it make your chance to find your SB for x times, where x is the number of cards you will draw. Its worst than a tutor because a good hand with a tutor is still a good hand with a tutor, in this case you can "muligan" again and find a bad hand with your answer. Ok, the converse is also true.. but that dont make easy to find your tutor.
Is true that you could run 4 serum powder, and 1 of each hate card, but even if this would give more options the risk dont sound worth to me. Its too much of a lottery and you can lose good goblins in the process. This is my opinion, but I really like the tests people do here, and how accurate they are, so if anyone is testing this, keep on.
My SB is like this now:
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
3 Pyrokinesis
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Anti SnT (I am trying different cards, like angel, O-ring, now I am testing trinisphere because it is also good agains some combos, confusing ranks is my next =] )
I found that here where I play, we need at least 5 cards for answering Reanimate, the relics are also good against goyfs, and cage helps a lot against reanimate, snapcaster and dredge. I use 2 needle because it really helps a lot in different games, can stop tampo, deed, 50% of maverick..
But I will change it soon, I see now that I need some answers to enchantments..
[If you find any errors in my phrases, please let me know]
Cya.
here's a brief report from my tourney last night. finished 3-2, 5th out of 18, in the money.
1st round:
1: he reanimates griselbrand turn 2, elesh norn turn 3.
2: i cannot find leyline, but i find a good strong aggressive hand and go for it. siege gang puts him dead on the board unless he plays a sweeper, so he elesh norns me next turn. I didn't overextend, though, so i could still matron for stingscourger and win several turns later. testing with my reanimator friend helped a lot, since i knew i could grind against a reanimator really well. he also had troubles finding more reanimation spells late game (i am pretty sure i saw no animate dead at all, and reanimate would actually kill him). a key mistake a did in this match was trying to go for chalice of the void for 2 instead of going for the kill with a warchief, with my opponent at one life. for my surprise, he could still pay five mana for a force of will... ;)
3: leyline comes into play, rishadan and wasteland run the distance in the control role, he never finds two mana for the bounce spell.
2-1
lesson learned: reanimator won't side out force of will post board, while i thought he would definitely... what do you guys think?
2nd round:
1: cabal therapy for lackey double hits and buys him loads of turns. he puts a bunch of jund land into play, abrupt decay some of my stuff, dreadres other stuff, but i eventually win. the only relevant card i saw was olivia voldaren.
2: i side in 2 pithing needles and 2 slaughter games, though i was not sure what to name, having seen only removals from his deck. i know he was up to something, so decided to try anyway. my initial hand had 2 pithing needles and a vial. i go with vial turn one, he misses the cabal therapy on lackey. turn 2 i pass with incinerator mana up. turn 3 i decide to try something with my first needle and see his reaction. I name liliana of the veil. he replies with "very well thought, but i left her on the sideboard". what a weird pile... anyway, this time he finds a veteran explorer for the ramp on the flashback of cabal therapy, and proceeds to bring into play huntmasters of the fells and olivia voldaren. the grind was totally not in my favor. slaughter games never showed up.
3: i remove the needles, and mulligan into an aggressive hand with a slaughter games. i start on the aggressive role, but as it is, he actually had a damnation to clear my board. i buy my second copy of slaughter gammes and decide to name olivia voldaren with the first, removing 2 copies from his deck, and actually understanding what the whole pile was about for the first time. it is a jund nic fit, of sorts. anyway, next turn a slaughter games removes 4 huntmasters of the fells from his deck, and that was about it. the only relevant creatures still in his deck where kitchen finks.
2-1
lesson learned: my meta proved to be rather innovative and based on fair decks, since this guy manages to go 4-1, losing only this round against me. also, slaughter games bought me this win, while cranial wouldn't be of any help, since his key spells were not in the graveyard, and once hitting the board would put the match in his favor.
3nd round:
1: he is on the play, opens with double mother of runes, stone forge, batterskull, sword of fire and ice...
2: i mulligan to a hand of 3 lackeys, mountain, wasteland and chieftain. i lose. i open with mountain lackey go, he plays a mom and passes. i attack, he trades, i waste his savannah and play another lackey. he plays land, mom and passes. i attack with lackey and he trades, then i play a third lackey. he plays a forest, zenits for dryad arbor and passes. i drew a pyrokinesis, and i think here is where i lost the match: i remove his lone arbor to connect with lackey, dropping a warchief. he plays stone forge and runs the distance.
0-2
lesson learned: whoever said maverick is a good matchup, either i am doing something really wrong, or these lists i face are not standard. besides, my board needs to be more prepared to that matchup, as this guy seems to be the best player around, and managed to get a 5-0.
4th round:
1: he mulls to five, i cavern for lackey, he shrugs. i see only brainstorms and ponder and flooded strand, and wasteland prevents him from going to the second drop i put him on UW miracle control, he gives up the game to see more of my deck.
2: i side in needle, grip, chalice... but he opens with double delver. my incinerators in the sideboard were drastically missed. krosan grip could remove his jitte, but it committed all of my lands to do so, and i couldnt develop a board at all with double delver flying on my head.
3: i'm on the play, but my aggressive start of cavern lackey cannot pass trought the vapor snag and snapcaster dynamic duo.
1-2
lesson learned: i corrupted my whole deck on a rather fair matchup assuming he was on UW miracles. assumption fail. guess the correct pattern would be to side nothing at all...
5th round:
1: he mulls to 4, i lackey and waste him out of the game. the colors i see are R, U and G. I put him on some kind of slow RUG.
2: i side in chalices and needles. he mulls to six and keeps, while i keep an aggressive hand with a chalice. i start with lackey and follow up with a chalice of the void for one on turn two. it resolves, and i feel pretty confident about the match. my opponent play nothing and i win. after the game ended i asked: what were you up to? he shows me a hand of 3 terastodons, double spirit guide, and so on, having found no cascade spell at all, for the whole match.
2-0
lesson learned: i definitely should be suspicious about him not pondering or brainstorming or bolting me. now that i think of it, i see that my opponent resolved not a single spell for the whole match. i playtested against a list of hypergenesis for a whole night once, and now that it materializes itself in front of me i can't even notice it. still, won the match, but had he found a cascade spell the story would be different.
so, my takeaway points from this first experience on legacy:
- green splash was disappointing. krosan grip wouldn't have helped me on the matches it was needed, even if i had more of it, since it is so damn expensive. either that, or i was the one doing it wrong. tin street is okay, though, and i still don't see myself playing tuktuk scrapper. not sure...
- it seems my meta is based on fair decks, though i could spot a TES player. i assume (though i am really bad on assumptions, it seems) that the black splash is promising
- i need to improve my play and my board against maverick, since this seems to be the deck that has been winning every week there. he is a really good player and plays a really good build, and makes no mistake at all. i could watch him play last week on a scouting visit to that store, and i saw a toolbox of answers with enlightened tutor in his board
- i need to improve my perception of what my opponent is up to. having known legacy only by reading lists over the internet (including this forum), i couldn't not understand what was going on 3 out of 5 times. worse than that, i quickly put my opponents on a deck they weren't piloting at all. guess this can only be solved by playing more, getting to know the people that go there, and so on.
- the other goblin player of the store seems to be doing really well with an 4-instigator 4-moxes mono-red build.
- i'm am sold on rishadan port. along with wasteland, it just wins you games against stuff. it seemed to be really unneffective against other stufff, though, so the quantity seems to be the puzzle.
finally, the list:
4 caverns
4 wastes
3 mountains
2 taiga
2 badlands
4 bloodstained mire
2 arid mesa
2 rishadan port
20 core (lackey, matron, warchief, ringleader, aether vial)
4 incinerator
3 mogg war marshall
3 goblin chieftain
2 krenko
1 goblin piledriver
1 siege-gang commander
1 goblin sharpshooter
1 tin-street hooligan
1 stingscourger
sideboard
4 leyline of the void
2 chalice of the void
2 pithing needle
2 slaughter games
1 angel of despair
1 krosan grip
1 pyrokinesis
1 stingscourger
1 tin-street hooligan
Im fairly sure you should board lackeys out against Maverick.
Why do you have Slaughter Games in your sideboard? No Tuk-Tuk Scrapper or any anti-artifact goblin maindeck?
I see myself loosing over and over to Maverick, too. I was winning a lot more before cavern of souls, when i was maindecking 3 Warren Weiding and a basic swamp and SBing Perish when they hadn't thalia.
I would love to hear a tech in deckbuilding or playing, that makes this matchup better without ruining the other ones.
my artifact hate was tin-street hooligan, i run one MD and one SB, as well as a single krosan grip.
I decided to try slaughter games because A can't be countered B doesn't need a card in the graveyard to work. people are generally afraid of 4 mana costed spells, but during playtesting it was often that i could muster enough lands for such spells, by playing with 23. for sure you wouldn't bring this in against stufff like TES and belcher, which are some of our worse matches, and one would say it isn't wort at all just for that, but as you can see from the list extra copies of golden spells were not available yesterday...
as for lackey, i tried to keep them on the play. on the draw, though, i would side them out. would you guys side them out on the play as well? i still think it is a relevant card, that must be answered. if i did get a gempalm at any of the 3 draws i had, i would be free to connect without a trade. seems like a good situation for me.
I've got a playset of perishes coming, but time and again I've found the problems to be mother of runes + stoneforge mystic.
Dear guys, I'm back ;)
#1: I also won't attack. Prospector is one of the best Goblin in this MU and he always will block it!
#2: Have a look at #1. Is in this early game the Squad so relevant? I also won't attack and play things like MWM or MWM + Piledriver to attack and cast Squad next turn. He won't play anything other than Top oder Brainstorm, because he will put Batterskull otb. So he has one blocker while he will have 2 attackers.
I do the same. Keep them in if on the Play, side them out on the Draw.
Your second game against Maverick, I guess your mistake cost you the game. Attacking into Mom was right both times. When he Zenithed for Arbor though, and you had only Kinesis, and not much else, you should have passed. There was not a single card the Mav player could have cast that the Kinesis wouldn't be able to take out, in taking the Arbor along with it (unless he had 2 lands on the yard already, but still). Doing that 2-1 on yourself, to kill a 1/1, and getting diminishing gains, was not worth at all. You don't need to play Kinesis the first opportunity you get. It's usually better to hold on to it, to get maximum value.
Your 'lessons learned' were quite good, and you should keep doing that. Acknowledging the mistakes you made is the 1st step to stop making them.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
The Hypergenesis player had no chance against you even if he had a cascade spell... Terastodon can only hit non-creature permanents... and all of yours but Vial are creatures. Plus if you're holding a Matron or Ringleader, you get to find your extras and put them into play off of Hypergenesis.
So he would have had 3 huge vanilla dudes and no hand and you'd have had an overwhelming swarm fit for attacking or chump blocking.
Also CotV at 0 ruins him.
Against fair decks, Krenko is your "I win" button.
Against Maverick I would recommend a more control route. If they have blockers to kill your Lackeys then don't attack. Once you get Krenko online you'll be glad you had the extra bodies. If they have Mom but no clock you have nothing to worry about. You can also save Pyrokinesis for your alpha strike and target the Moms on board. They'll tap them to save them but then they're already used up and you can sneak by with your horde.
Just to make it clear: If you put Matron into the battlefield from Hypergenisis, you'll not be able to search for your goblin until Hypergenesis resolve, so you won't be able to put the goblin you search with Matron into the battlefield from Hypergenesis.
A spell or trigger can only beggin resolving after all the effects from the last spell or trigger finishes resolving.
(guess it's the same thing you said, but a little more detailed)
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Whoa! Anachronism post!
Slaughter Games: I totally see why you'd want to play it, but I don't think it's playable. In fact, i know it's not a competitive card for a Goblins deck. It's a card you want to use against Combo, but it's too slow to fight combo. It's also too slow to stop sideboard hate cards. AND it doesn't do anything against a spell that has actually Resolved and is affecting the Game State.
Slaughter Games has a cool effect, but it doesn't actually do anything in a game of magic. The only deck i see it being even slightly playable against is Miracles, and that's not a problem MU anyway. Stop the Slaughter.
Maverick: Against Maverick I want to side in removal, whether that's Pyrokinesis, Anarchy, Perish, whatevs. I want to do this because Maverick is a creature based deck, so you need to control their board position to win. The first thing to side out to make room for more removal is Thalia. I run Thalia in my list and I ahve no interest in seeing her against Maverick. The second thing I'll side out is Piledriver. This is because between Mom, Maze, and SoFaI they have many ways of chumping Piledriver and keeping you from getting value out of him. After Piledrivers I would side out utility goblins or one Gempalm. I run 4 Gempalms and 1 Sharpshooter. Sharpshooter can be great against Mav, but it can also be a dud so i feel comfortable siding him out for something I know will get me value, like Anarchy. And I'm OK with siding out 1 Gempalm for another piece of removal because I'm lowering my goblin count by siding in removal, so Gempalm is a little less necessary/effective. My point here is that I'd side out all of these before I would consider siding out Lackeys. Thalia, Piledriver, utility goblins, 1 Gempalm.
If you ever find yourself facing a situation where you can kill their Mom with a Lackey, do it. I will 1:1 my Lackey with one of my opponent's creatures all day every day. Because my opponent can't draw cards like I can. The more cards we play, the further ahead I get. Really the only thing to fear is equipment in this MU, and if you just sandbag a Tuktuk or whatevs you can't lose. Just play some guys, chump, use your Gempalms in response to their Mom activations, resolve and activate a Krenko, or vial in a hasty Sharpshooter and clear their board.
After a month and a half without playing I finally attended another tourney yesterday. I played a Rw build with 3 Thalia Md, 2 Port, 1 Karakas. Went 1-1-1.
Drew with UW Miracles 1-1. Thalia was awkward and I whiffed on a Ringleader G2. Probably could have been a little more aggressive.
Lost to Affinity 0-2. Played first both games, had T1 Lackey both games. Couldn't get board position or removal when I needed it either game. Also ran into Etched Champion both games, which tends to be difficult to deal with.
Won against TES 2-1. I mulled to Thalia G1 and won. I mulled to a no land hand with 6 but a Chalice G2. Couldn't draw the lands I needed to actually put pressure on. G3 I played double Leyline o Void T0. He kept a durdling hand with Ponders and Mana and couldn't find a tutor in time. I asked afterwards if Leyline was relevant. He said No. I believe him.
Since we were on the sideboarding subject, what do you guys usually side out against Merfolk for Pyrokinesis. Taking Jim Davis list for exemple:
4 Aether Vial
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Mogg War Marshal
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Stingscourger
1 Tin Street Hooligan
4 Snow-Covered Mountain
2 Arid Mesa
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Rishadan Port
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Taiga
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
3 Pyrokinesis
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
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