So I think that legion loyalist may begin some new winstagator lists while this far from tuned (and just theory crafting till about Sunday) I think that 4x piledriver some number of winstagator and chrome mox to make some hyper aggressive version that could race combo
4 Ęther Vial
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Chrome Mox
4 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
13 Mountain
2 Rishadan Port
2 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Warren Instigator
4 Wasteland
2 legion loyalist
I know Legion Loyalist made us all super exicted that Piledriver would be good again for a second, but is anyone else feeling like Piledriver is just not very playable anymore? I'm beginning to think that Goblins is much better suited for the long game these days and should just drop the Piledriver pipedream altogether. I'm going to throw together a Driverless deck for my next weekly and see if I can stall my way to a couple Ws.
Piledriver gives Goblins a puncher's chance versus decks it should autolose to. I think Piledriver is still valuable in Goblins, even thought it isn't quite as good as it was before.
PD is a removal spell...they need to chump him or die. If they Swords him that's ok too...i'd rather have him Swords'd that a Warchief or Krenko...
I agree with namrufmot: Piledriver must be regarded as a removalspell.Originally Posted by namrufmot
Perhaps the only question to ask yourself if you want to run it as a four-off or less then four Piledrivers. I am very comfortable running three at the moment. Don't know if I would run less than three, though
I disagree with piledriver as an effective removel spell. If we have a lot of goblins, we win anyway, if not, piley is not big enaugh to kill relevant creatures. He also is pretty bad, when we're in the Control-Position (Rug,Maverick, Sometimes BGx midrange), because they can let him do a few points of dmg and attack more evely back.
Sometimes he is, but that's nothing you can rely on.
I think he is (besides Chieftain) our main dmg-dealer and is necessary because of his cost of 1-2, where chieftain is too expensive.
He gives us games against combo and wins against merfolk by its own. I wouldn't go less then 3.
check out this list guys, its designed not to lose to abrupt decay and stomp rug delver, Bug decks, and esper / stoneblade.
4 tarfire
4 vial
4 lackey
4 gempalm incinerator
4 mogg war marshal
4 chieftain
4 matron
4 ringleader
1 tin street hooligan or tuktuk scrapper (i prefer green splash for answer to turn 2 jitte.)
1 sharpshooter
1 krenko
2 flex slots, for a while these slots were 1 skirk prospector and 1 siege gang, but dredge isnt around alot and tarfire helps against stoneforge that prospector was good against. i feel like instead i should just take these 2 slots and run 2 additional krenkos (3 total) the only way for bug to deal with krenko is discard. when your playing draw go and you rip matron and slam krenko they literally dont have an answer and you take over the board in 2 turns.
Have you had a chance to playtest it?
I like that you have the burn to answer early threats, MWM and Gempalm to clog up the mid-game, and Krenko to finish. I believe it is great against the decks you listed, just because of the inevitability offered by Krenko. The only problem I see is that a few well placed spot removal spells can really take all your steam away. If they kill your Chieftains and Krenkos you're kinda up shit creek and have to rely solely on getting enough 1/1s and 2/2s to overwhelm your opponent. Have you found this to be a problem?
lackey is there to eat early removal / force of will. also aether vial is very scary for bug players and usually eats abrupt decays. right now the only relevant removal that hits krenko is swords to plowshares, dismember (underplayed), lightning bolt and discard spells while he is still in hand. i just didnt think that piledriver jumping in the way of lightning bolts helps my situation. because if it is more profitable for them to kill chieftain then they will do it anyways. also when you only have turn 2 piledriver hes usually all alone or just sits on the board not doing much anyways.
to be honest i am strictly trying to metagame for starcity edison new jersey. i feel the field will be full of tundra control decks, rug delver, and bug variants mostly. i want to make those matchups as positive game 1 as possible and devote very little sideboard cards for them. then use heavy amounts of combo / graveyard hate to get there against the rest of the field.
ive been considering switching to black splash for perish and warren weirding, a maindeck answer for emrakul. im just not sure how much show and tell will be there.
The best MD answer we have to Emrakul is Stingscourger (he can be put into play via Show and Tell). If Emrakul enters the battlefield on any other way, Warren Weirding would be useless anyways. Still, I think B splash is a good call if you expect S&T decks, because Cabal Therapy is super effective against them.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
I am hoping to take a build like this to scg atlanta. Going to splash black and drop piledriver completely. Perish seems to be nuts as a sb card right now. Will post the list later tonight.
Edit: I barely play anymore so this is all brewed in my head pretty much but it seems good.
Mana:
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Mountain
2 Auntie's Hovel
2 Arid Mesa
1 Badlands
1 Taiga
Core:
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Chieftain
3 Warren Instigator
3 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Mogg War Marshal
2 Siege Gang Commander
1 Stingscourger
4 Aether Vial
3 Tarfire
3 Warren Weirding
Total
60
Sideboard:
4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Perish
2 Krosan Grip
2 Angel of Despair
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
Total
15
Last edited by markbris; 01-24-2013 at 11:18 PM.
heres my update list
4 aether vial
4 goblin lackey
4 tarfire
4 gempalm incinerator
1 warren weirding
4 mogg war marshal
4 goblin chieftain
4 goblin matron
4 goblin ringleader
2 krenko
1 tuktuk scrapper
4 rishadan port
4 wasteland
4 cavern of souls
4 badlands
4 bloodstained mire
2 wooded foothills
2 mountain
sideboard: 3 perish
4 cabal therapy
4 grafdigger's cage
4 flex slots (probably combo hate)
i decided to cut sharpshooter because he is commonly boarded out and bad in 60% of matchups, with him went skirk prospector and all 4 piledrivers. i also cut siege-gang commander to a 2nd krenko to streamline the list, vial always stays at 4 and bug has a hard time dealing with krenko. i made this list intending to run the most amount of removal the deck can handle and then adjusting from there. try it out and all feedback in appreciated.
Sorry for the late update, but as I promised I got to playtest with Sol-Goblins Thursday and am very pleased with the turn out. I only got 9 games in with my buddy, playing tournament style - first game MD, next two SB allowed; I went 6-3, all three rounds going 2-1.
My list:
4 warchief
4 ringleader
4 lackey
4 matron
4 piledriver
3 shrieking mogg (trial run)
4 gempalm
1 krenko
1 siege gang
1 pyromancer (trial run for him)
1 soothsayer (trial run for him)
4 vial
3 goblin grenade
3 barbarian ring
8 mountain
4 cavern
4 tomb
4 city
SB
4 pyrostatic pillar
4 relic
3 chalice
3 thorn
1 boartusk
match summary
Round 1 Game 1 - LOSS
This turned into a pretty quick game, I started with a decent hand, but he had better. decayed all my early threats, thoughtsiezed the rest and got Jace TMS online and that was it from there.
Round 1 Game 2 - WIN
my first SB game, this game went flawlessly. I started with cavern, mountain, tomb, lackey, matron, krenko, gempalm. Forget what he had but i believe it was jace, liliana, decay, deathrite and fetch lands. I dropped cavern, lackey, go. He dropped deathrite, I pulled down a matron and went for a ringleader. He decayed the lackey, I topdecked a second, dropped him in and blew cycled gempalm drawing a city. He drops liliana on the board and forces me to sac; I kill matron. I draw a siege gang and it was over from there, lackey pulled siege into play and I dropped warchief down, next turn krenko hit the board and that was all she wrote.
Round 1 Game 3 - WIN
he starts with a heavier aggro hand (2 deathrites, 1 confidant, 1 tarmo, 1 brainstorm and 2 lands). I mull to 6 to pull a hand with cavern, tomb, lackey, vial, relic, and pyrostatic. Pyrostatic pretty much won me this game, he opened with deathrite, I went with vial (knowing lackey wasn't getting through) he brainstorms and pulls a decay blowing up my vial. I top deck matron, choosing to drop pyrostatic and relic on the board. Relic keeps the early tarmo hate in check until I estabilish with warchief, ringleader and a piledriver, I ended up blowing up his army with barbarian rings after dropping a land in to play to send city to the yard for threshold and exploding his tarmo with a grenade. Very close game, I ended at 4 life. Barb ring and pyrostatic carried their wait for sure.
Round 2 Game 1 - WIN
I started with essentially a 'god-mode' hand of lackey, lackey, siege-gang, piledriver, cavern, barb ring, tomb. I forgot to write this one down but I remember getting one of the lackeys through to put siege gang down and just controlled from there. Piledriver swung for A LOT.
Round 2 Game 2 -LOSS
My buddy proceeds to top deck all 4 decays, with 2 deathrites, jace and tarmo on the board. This game was ugly.
Round 2 Game 3 - WIN
Sideboard saves my ass again. He establishes an early creature wall while I setup relic and 2 pyrostatics. the pyrostatics make him pay for all of his control cards, while relic keeps me alive long enough to swing a boartusk through over his 0/1 tarmo. Very close though, I ended at 2 life.
Round 3 Game 1 - WIN
He gets the super best friends online early, but I roll into most of my ringleaders and gempalms which keep afloat through the hand hate. Eventually a small hoard of 5 goblins gets rid of jace and swings through for a win. Another skin of my teeth game.
Round 3 Game 2 - LOSS
This time jace sinks in and locks me down tight. I did manage to get an early lackey through into warchief, ringleader and krenko but he forces me to topdeck 8 lands in a row after that. While jace ults and I weep on the inside.
Round 3 Game 3 - WIN
This one went long....very long, would have gone over timer in a real tournament long. But I would have sunk a win under timer anyway. This was another game with a beautiful start, I had to mull to 5 but it was just the right 5. I keep lackey, ringleader, siege-gang, cavern, tomb. Lackey gets through to pull siege into play and I top deck the extra land to put ringleader into play ripping off 3 new goblins, including krenko. The resulting goblin hoard got big and fast. He never had a chance to establish.
Notes on my thoughts of the deck post-games:
Vial - I am dropping it. It did not once see play in any of the 9 games except the one where it was promptly blown up. Its too slow for the current meta and too susceptible to hate. I'm still toying with what I'm going to throw in the 4 open slots.
Shrieking Mogg - without vial was pretty weak, I thought that with a haste enabler on board it could allow some interesting non-vial plays, but he never shined through for me. Hes getting replaced with MWM.
The two trial goblins - weren't bad, soothsayer did help me muscle through an aggro stall game on round 2, but I don't think they warrant the slots. Going to cut them but they may be worth a try for some people.
Barbarian Ring - My little sleeper agent. This card cleared the way for victory for me in 3 of my wins, and helped me stabilise in the others. I do need a way to get threshold faster, but I'm making this a 4-of. Excellent card for goblins.
Wasteland - I didn't miss it. Like, at all. There was not a single point where I could have feasibly taken my opponent off of a color, at all in any of the 9 games. If anyone is saying they can with the sheer volume of fetch-lands most of these decks run anymore, you're lying. The one and only reason to run this land any more is if you're meta houses an alarming number of tabernacle and pendrell vale's. Maze of ith isn't a threat for us (we swarm, we don't send singleton goblins in). I could see minimal argument for wasteland against grove of the burnwillows. But again we should be able to outpace punishing fire. Wasteland without Stifle/Vindicate/Sinkhole is dead for us. I am wholly convinced of it.
Sol-Lands - I was pleased with them. Not overwhelmingly so, but they did well. I'm currently playing with the idea of finding more goblins in that perfect 2R casting cost zone to take the most use of them, but I found even having the extra colorless to throw towards siege-gang's ability was very useful. They'll be staying however I do plan to cut city to 3 to make room for the fourth barb ring.
Goblin Grenade - positively, stupidly, and obnoxiously amazing with siege gang, mogg war marshal, and krenko. Without these guys though it is worthless. In 3 games it blew up an oversized tarmo, and in one if went to my opponents face to allow just enough damage to get through for a win. I'll be keeping them but may be cutting it to two.
Boartusk Liege - Is an absolute house. This guy has be debating if Horde of Boggarts and Reckless One are worth it again. I feel Goblins needs a more substantial beat stick on the board to comfortably trade with tarmo's and bskulls. Boartusk stays for sure, but I'll be trying the other two out in the near future.
In all 6-3 against BUG has me pleased. My deck is close to optimized for my meta. Another few weeks of testing should have it up and running and bashing the tournament scene. I'll keep you guys posted
Turbo eldrazi decks have been picking up a bit of steam lately. I think we have trouble dealing with it once they establish glacial chasm or post board tabernacle. Any suggestions on how to beat it with regards to play style / card options?
Bloodmoon or surgical extraction and hit their non-basics (try getting their green sources if you can) after hitting them with wasteland. If you can get their cloud posts you pretty much win.
You know I'm thinking I might try main decking 4 chalice of the void. Between vial, lackey, instigator, and caverns, we could totally abuse chalice. Might as well give it a try...
Last edited by FoxBlade; 01-27-2013 at 03:40 AM.
Seems good against RUG, Elves, Storm, Belcher, Reanimator, perhaps even Dredge to hit their 1cc cantrips.
Its not quite as good against Miracles, Stoneblade, or BUG.. but hitting cantrips is always good against blue. Turning off Swords is good. The thing is, if its coming down on turn 2 its vulnerable to Daze, Spell Pierce, and friends while basically everything else in the deck is not due to Vial/Cavern. I'm not sure it will wind up working for you maindeck.
Luck is a residue of design.
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Expect me or die. I play SI.
Pithing Needle sounds good too, between 4 Expedition Maps, 4 Tops, and some Candelabras of Tawnos.
Also, their Needles shut down our Wastes, so keep TSH in.
I'd not trust Vial hands, because of Needle, but Vial + some lands is acceptable.
Shotter + Prospector + Krenko is your best bet after being locked down by Chasm.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
// Lands
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
4 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [B] Tropical Island
2 [ZEN] Island (2)
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [CMD] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
2 [FD] Trinket Mage
// Spells
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [GP] Repeal
2 [MR] Oblivion Stone
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 2 [CMD] Oblivion Stone
SB: 1 [MR] Chalice of the Void
1/3 of the maindeck is cc1, so Chalice @1 lets you bog them down while you develop your board.
Skirk Prospector + Krenko is always good against Tabernacle.
Wasteland lets you blow-up Glacial Chasm, so sandbag it until it's time to win.
Unless you run Sol-Lands like me and drop it in turn 1
I've also been debating MD on chalice....or even thorn of amethyst. Sol-lands make the idea that much more appealing.
Against miracles and stoneblade, I'd probably side them out. Against BuG though, you hit a pretty good portion of their deck, however abrupt decay can still play right through chalice anyway. But then what would be a more attractive target for a BuG player, chalice @ 1 or goblin warchief?
You're right too about the turn 2 thing. I'm not sure if I should add some 2 mana lands, moxes, or 1-4 skirk prospectors to fix that. I've tried Thalia and she does a bit, but she doesn't seem to do enough. I've been considering black splash for cabal therapy and maybe wort, boggart auntie in addition to MD chalice.
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