[Deck] Goblins

[BigBopper]

Those same lists run 12~16 creatures. Which you can really keep in check with 9 removal + Siege-Gang Commander. Post-board I can bring Disenchant to fight any artifact.

I have a hard time fighting goyfs with removal like Bolt, tarfire and even gempalm when no reliques are around. Also putting jitte on the table and equipping costs 4 mana. If you're not prepared to have resources open you just get hit. I don't need to tell you that 2 hits with Jitte are basically gg.
Same argument goes for TSH, but being able to have it in hand or tutor for it is a big thing, although it doesn't always work.

[Avatara]

Those same lists run 12~16 creatures. Which you can really keep in check with 9 removal + Siege-Gang Commander. Post-board I can bring Disenchant to fight any artifact.

Aren't you confusing Disenchant with Krosan Grip? They will have counters waiting for your disenchant, even more so now with Cavern.

[magicmerl]

Actually, the presence of Cavern and Vial make them more likely to side out most/all of their counters.

But yeah, Krosan Grip is still better than Disenchant if you are prepared to splash green.

[goblinsplayer]

Is all this combo in the meta optimal for goblins to splash black or is the white splash better?

[GoboLord]

Is all this combo in the meta optimal for goblins to splash black or is the white splash better?

Well, I could answer this question, but I first like to hear YOUR oppinion on that.
The cards you could take into account when it comes to fighting combo are listed in the opening post.
Looking forward to read your oppinion!

[goblinsplayer]

Well, I could answer this question, but I first like to hear YOUR oppinion on that.
The cards you could take into account when it comes to fighting combo are listed in the opening post.
Looking forward to read your oppinion!

Well, I know that the black splash offers discard, which is a big plus against combo, which is taking up a lot of space in the metagame right now. It also offers warren weirding which is good against sneak and show combo. I have not played the white splash yet but I think it does not have as good of a matchup against combo, but is good against the other decks in the meta, such as stoneblade and abrupt decay decks because of Stp. Thalia, I think, is good against combo and pulls it's weight against blue decks. My opinion is to switch to white splash because I think it's good in the meta right now. What do you think?

[orcanmail]

Well, I know that the black splash offers discard, which is a big plus against combo, which is taking up a lot of space in the metagame right now. It also offers warren weirding which is good against sneak and show combo. I have not played the white splash yet but I think it does not have as good of a matchup against combo, but is good against the other decks in the meta, such as stoneblade and abrupt decay decks because of Stp. Thalia, I think, is good against combo and pulls it's weight against blue decks. My opinion is to switch to white splash because I think it's good in the meta right now. What do you think?

In my opinion it's best staying mono red using 4 chalice and 3 thorns.

[ScatmanX]

Well, I know that the black splash offers discard, which is a big plus against combo, which is taking up a lot of space in the metagame right now. It also offers warren weirding which is good against sneak and show combo. I have not played the white splash yet but I think it does not have as good of a matchup against combo, but is good against the other decks in the meta, such as stoneblade and abrupt decay decks because of Stp. Thalia, I think, is good against combo and pulls it's weight against blue decks. My opinion is to switch to white splash because I think it's good in the meta right now. What do you think?

You're quite accurate there (Though Stingscourger is better against SnT than Weirdings). Also, discard doesn't help all that much against combo as one might think, while monored/Rw goblins have a good number of weapons to fight against them.

In my opinion it's best staying mono red using 4 chalice and 3 thorns.

IF one decides to stay monored, and have 7 combo-hate slots on the SB, my suggestion yould be to run 3 Mindbreak Traps, 2 Thorns, then 2 Chalice of the Void or ReB, depending on what you might face.
If he have MD Thalias, then I'd run 3 Trap, 3 CotV, 1 Confusion in the Ranks.

[orcanmail]

IF one decides to stay monored, and have 7 combo-hate slots on the SB, my suggestion yould be to run 3 Mindbreak Traps, 2 Thorns, then 2 Chalice of the Void or ReB, depending on what you might face.
If he have MD Thalias, then I'd run 3 Trap, 3 CotV, 1 Confusion in the Ranks.

I used to run traps with my thorns and chalices, however i found that they were often thoughtseized away by the combo player so i dropped them and upped my thorns and chalices.
REBs are effective but if i run them i go full out and pack 7 reb/pyroblast instead of my 7 anti combo slots and blow blue away.

[Annatar]

I'm not really sure if Mindbreak Trap is worth it against Storm. Don't most of those decks pack hand disruption such as Duress or Cabal Therapy to get rid of those cards anyways? Also, for it to work their plan needs to work all but perfectly and in most of those scenarios they will find their solutions to the card.

Thalia is probably leaps and bounds better against them, but doesn't a splash make the Jund matchup worse? It's hard to starve a Deathrite Shaman if both you and the other guy are playing playsets of fetchlands and Wastelands when starving him is important since with him around our mana disruption plan becomes that much worse.

Tarfire is a reasonable solution to the shaman. Two seems like the correct number, since you really don't want to draw too many of those against combo.

[Asgar]

Hey Guys, I need help with my Sideboard for GPT Strasbourg :)

My list contains 2 Tarfire, 3 Gempalm 1 Sting 1 Prospector as relevant cards in the matchups where i need Sideboard

I dont wanna loose against
Belcher, Tes, High Tide, Griselstorm
Sneakshow, Classic Omni-Tell
Elves and Bg.dec of course

I found Swords very convincing, but like Relic more then RIP and the W-Splash just for 3-4 swords seems weird to me.
Black is not really an option because therapy is bad against High Tide and Belcher and perish is too difficult to cast against 4 wastelands.

I have something in Mind like
1 Sharpshooter (0 main)
3 Relic
3 Swords
3 Confusion in the Ranks
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Reb

But it seems like this isn't optimal.

Any suggestions?

Thanks a lot :)

[magicmerl]

Asgar, If you are running white, then I think there's no reason not to run Thalia and RiP. Swords is great too, but it's a distant third, both in terms of how well we match up against those decks, and Swords effect on the matchup. Many of your SB options seem good but not great. Whereas you want great SB options if possible.

Thalia is more important vs poorer matchups for us, plus it's easier to cast (off cavern and Vial as well as Plateaus). Thorn of Amethyst is a decent replacement, but isn't nearly as good since it doesn't present a clock.
Rest In Peace is more important vs GY decks, and they are worse matchups for us. Plus we can tap out with impunity.
Swords is the best spot removal there is, but Pyrokinesis is pretty good, as is Dismember and Lightning Bolt.

This is my current sideboard
3 Thalia, Guardina of Thraben
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Rest in Peace
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Krosan Grip
1 Umezawa's Jitte

I run a 57 card MD and an 18 card sideboard, with 3 Thalia MS as pre-sideboarding vs our worst matchups.

ReB I think is particularly bad as a SB choice, since it slows you down, you have to keep mana open on their turn, and the blue decks typically will just be able to counter it as well and keep going off.

Some other points:
1. Pyrokinesis I think is better than Swords vs creature decks.
2. Confusion in the Ranks seems much too narrow vs Show and Tell decks. That's too many Sideboard slots to devote to a single matchup. I think that Oblivion Ring gives you nearly the same effect but with more utility (and better if you draw it).

[Geeksire]

Hello everyone! I am having problems creating my legacy goblin deck since I am on a budget. I have a r/b deck which is doing pretty awesome but I have questions regarding Warren Weirding, Tarfire, and Cabal Therapy.

My deck is this:

Artifact: 4
4x Aether Vials

Creatures: 32
4x Goblin Lackey's
4x Goblin Matron's
4x Goblin Ringleader's
4x Goblin Warchief's
4x Mogg War Marshall or (4x Mogg Fanatic)
3x Gempalm Incinerator
3x Goblin Piledriver
1x Goblin Lookout
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Legion Loyalist
1x Krenko, Mob Boss
1x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Skirk Prospestor

Lands: 19x (I wish I can have Cavern, Rishadan, and Wasteland but do not want to spend a truck-load yet.)
4x Auntie's Hovel
12x Mountain
3x Swamp

Spells: 5x (As for spells, I cannot decide what to use in my deck.)
3x Cabal Therapy's or 3x Patriarch Bidding's
2x Warren Weirdings or 2x Tarfires

Sideboard:
4x Relic of Progentius
2x Angel of Despair
1x Tutuk Scrapper
3x Mindbreak Trap
3x Pyroblast (Deciding on replacing these 3 for Chalice of the Void or Thorn of Amethst. Should I replace for either of these or keep it the way it is?)
2x Pyrokinesis

Note: To give credit where it is due, I looked around this thread and found these posts by GTetraKai and B-Rad talking about their tournaments which really inspired me to make one around them. Hope this is all-right GTetraKai and B-Rad but you and others have some really nice sideboards.

I used to put 3x Patriarch's Bidding in my deck and it has worked great against my other friends decks, which is a Soldier deck, but now I need to figure out a better strategy to use against decks in Legacy Tournaments. If you guys can help me, I would like to decide on the three cards I mentioned earlier--Cabal Therapy, Warren Weirding, and Tarfire. I also have a problem with putting Mogg War Marshall and Mogg Fanatic. (I really do not know what to include in my deck from these two.

Thanks everyone and I hope you can help me out! Would like to go to tournaments in the future around my place! (I have never been to one : D)

[magicmerl]

Geeksire, welcome to the thread. I used to have a black splash a while ago, and what I found is that I really only wanted to have Warren Wierding MD, with Cabal Therapy and Leyline of the Void as SB cards.

Some feedback on your list:
1. 19 lands is WAY too few. 22 is the minimum (I'd suggest going with 'neither' on your Therapy/Bidding dilemmy and having more mana)
2. Fetchlands/Duals is THE cornerstone of the format. If you can't run them, then I think you should run MonoR instead of two colour.
3. AEther Vial. You should get some.
4. I also like the 4th Gempalm, a Stingscrourger and a Goblin Chieftain to round out the utility.
5. Your SB is very well tuned compared to how 'raw' your MD is, good job there. I'm not a fan of Pyroblasts, although in your cavern-free deck maybe they do more.

[ScatmanX]

Welcome Geeksire. I'll do some nipticks conserning just what magicmeirl wrote (mostly because I'm lazy):

1. Not completely true, but yeah, regarding his decklist and choices, there should be more lands, which leads to:
2. Agree. Running that manabase is totally unreliable. I'd cut the splash without fetches too. IF you don't have Ports/Wastes/Caverns, and decide to stay monored, 21 Mountains would be the bare minimum I'd run with that list.
3. I guess those 4 unnamed Artifacts there are Vials.
4. I do like them too, and if you haven't played them, definitely try them out.
5. Agree again. The slots for the ReB are your flex ones, and depend on your meta. Lots of SnT/Spiral Tide/MUC? Keep them in.

Also, need to say that LOVED to see someone running Goblin Lookout. Brings some memories.

PS: Have you done any testing with that Loyalist? How has he been for you?

[Geeksire]

Woops so so sorry lol. Forgot to put Aether Vial in the number 4x on Artifacts! I will try and look into getting Fetchlands but Badlands...I will try and afford them. As for putting more dual lands, would they be destroyed by Wasteland?

Nonetheless as for my budget, I will try to get those other lands and maybe dim down on creatures to get spells. So what spells should I get from Cabal Therapy, Tarfire, or Warren Weirding.

As for Legion Loyalist and Goblin Lookout, these are phenomenal against my friends soldier deck because I am at times never able to bring out creatures since he is able to buff up his damn Defblade Elite which has Provoke...
Once that creature is dead, I am able to buff my creatures with Goblin Lookout it is good-game as Legion Loyalist is attacking with my Goblin Piledrivers with the buff.

Also, what is better: Mogg War Marshall or Mogg Fanatic? I do not know which to pick! As for my sideboard, if I can get Cavern of Souls what should I replace with Pyroblast that can be efficient for my deck---Chalice of the Void, Thorn of Amethyst, Cabal Therapy, or something else.

Thanks for messaging me back.

[GoboLord]

Main

4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Goblin Piledriver
3 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Tarfire
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-Gang Commander

4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern of Souls
10 Mountain

Sideboard

3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Angel of Despair
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Grafdigger's Cage

The night before the tournament I made a bunch of changes like cutting the Warchiefs for Chieftains, adding Tarfires, and cutting all the fetches from the deck. Basically, my goal going in doing this was to make Deathrite Shamans as bad as possible against me and playing a much more aggressive list as I expected a bunch of Jund/Combo decks. The sideboard was phenomenal and the only card I didn't bring in all day was the 1 of cage. On to the tournament.

Hey folks,

yesterday evening I continued testing against Jund (w/o Punishing Fire). This time I tried B-rad's approach (see his posting above), which means: make DRS as worse as possible by running:
* Chieftains over Warchiefs
* a Mono-R list in order to avoid fetchlands
* fast spotremoval

My list was only slightly different:

Lands [22]:
exactly like in B-rads composition

Core [22]:
-4 Goblin Warchief

Others [16]:
4 Goblin Chieftain
3 Mogg War Marshal

3 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Lighting Bolt
2 Dismember

Sideboard [15]:
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Boartusk Liege
9 irrelevant cards


Observations
* in direct comparison between Relic and Rest in Peace (which was my former GYH of choice against Jund), RIP was clearly better. However!!! (and this is an important one!)
* being MonoR (i.e. not running fetchlands) was a huge advantage when playing against DRS. This basically allowed me to (1) permanently de-activate DRS (since I lacked fetchlands) and (2) run Rishadan Ports, which made it much more difficult for my opponent to resolve Bloodbraid Elf (which I believe is the real player in this deck).
* having 8 instead of 4 colorless lands made it harder to resolve Boartusk Liege and it also cost me 1 game (out of 3 where I actually drew and needed it)
* 2 Dismembers proved to be a good number: the lifeloss didn't matter as much as it did when I played them in the Rw build (the lack of fetchlands and de-activated DRS we saving me some lifepoints)
* I'm pretty sure that Lightning Bolt is better than Tarfire (although I'm unsure whether Dismember is better than Tarfire too), but I guess that lies in the eye of the beholder
* I was surprised about the positive performance of Chieftains. I think replacing Warchiefs with Chieftains is a good call vs. JUND, wlthough I can imagine that (and that's a topic that came back at me several times in the past) there will be situations where you curse yourself for not including 4 Warchiefs.
This question goes out to B-rad: Do you think it is a good idea to run both Chieftains AND Warchiefs and thereby cutting Mogg War Marshals entirely?

My overall impression was that being Mono-colored is an advantage when you want to fight Jund. I can't say such things about other BGx-matchups since I didnt test them yet. So, if you can afford to run a mediocre GYH (i.e. Relic of Progenitus) in your meta, you should absolutely pick up a configuration similar to the one that B-rad proposed.

[orcanmail]

[QUOTE=GoboLord;706747]Hey folks,
This question goes out to B-rad: Do you think it is a good idea to run both Chieftains AND Warchiefs and thereby cutting Mogg War Marshals entirely?


I used to play with 4 warchiefs but found i wanted the +1/+1 of chieftains for aggro and v e.plague so i switched. I then found i wanted the cost reduction of my warchiefs to play ringleaders through cavern of souls as my engine.

I now run 4 warchiefs and 2 chieftains ( still retaining 3 MWM, and an extra +1/+1 boartusk in the SB v e.plague ) which seems to work. My list also includes 1 Krenko that loves hasty +1/+1 dudes. It is good to have the extra 5th and 6th haste enablers which is also very important for Goblins.

[B-rad]

Hey folks,

yesterday evening I continued testing against Jund (w/o Punishing Fire). This time I tried B-rad's approach (see his posting above), which means: make DRS as worse as possible by running:
* Chieftains over Warchiefs
* a Mono-R list in order to avoid fetchlands
* fast spotremoval

My list was only slightly different:

Lands [22]:
exactly like in B-rads composition

Core [22]:
-4 Goblin Warchief

Others [16]:
4 Goblin Chieftain
3 Mogg War Marshal

3 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Lighting Bolt
2 Dismember

Sideboard [15]:
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Boartusk Liege
9 irrelevant cards

Observations
* in direct comparison between Relic and Rest in Peace (which was my former GYH of choice against Jund), RIP was clearly better. However!!! (and this is an important one!)
* being MonoR (i.e. not running fetchlands) was a huge advantage when playing against DRS. This basically allowed me to (1) permanently de-activate DRS (since I lacked fetchlands) and (2) run Rishadan Ports, which made it much more difficult for my opponent to resolve Bloodbraid Elf (which I believe is the real player in this deck).
* having 8 instead of 4 colorless lands made it harder to resolve Boartusk Liege and it also cost me 1 game (out of 3 where I actually drew and needed it)
* 2 Dismembers proved to be a good number: the lifeloss didn't matter as much as it did when I played them in the Rw build (the lack of fetchlands and de-activated DRS we saving me some lifepoints)
* I'm pretty sure that Lightning Bolt is better than Tarfire (although I'm unsure whether Dismember is better than Tarfire too), but I guess that lies in the eye of the beholder
* I was surprised about the positive performance of Chieftains. I think replacing Warchiefs with Chieftains is a good call vs. JUND, wlthough I can imagine that (and that's a topic that came back at me several times in the past) there will be situations where you curse yourself for not including 4 Warchiefs.
This question goes out to B-rad: Do you think it is a good idea to run both Chieftains AND Warchiefs and thereby cutting Mogg War Marshals entirely?

My overall impression was that being Mono-colored is an advantage when you want to fight Jund. I can't say such things about other BGx-matchups since I didnt test them yet. So, if you can afford to run a mediocre GYH (i.e. Relic of Progenitus) in your meta, you should absolutely pick up a configuration similar to the one that B-rad proposed.

I wouldn't cut all the war marshalls entirely. You need the spot on the curve as well as the extra men he provides to get your gempalms going. Overloading on 3cc guys is not where you want to be right now so I believe 3 is a good number for him. He also works very well with chieftain giving you 6 hasty power early on. And most Jund players i played against left in Liliana who is laughably bad against us especially if we have a war marshall in play. As far as chieftain v warchief it's all really metagame dependent. If its a heavy Stoneblade/Miracles environment then I like 4 warchief 1 chieftain. If its a bunch of jund and BUG like it is now I like 4 chieftains and 0 warchiefs. I like Tarfire over Bolt because of it being a goblin and being tutorable and every creature you want to kill with a bolt dies to a Tarfire as well(Delver, SFM, Deathrite). The only downside to Tarfire is that it supercharges a Goyf and doesn't go to the dome as well. Also, I think having 10 non-goblin creatures in the main makes your ringleaders significantly worse and more likely to brick. If I were playing the mono red build right now I'd be using the same list I used for Cincy with -1 War Marshal -1 Krenko +1 Piledriver +1 Sparksmith(still iffy on this guy)

[B-rad]

Also if you do like the 6 removals spells in the main I would go 4 Tarfire 2 Dismember. Like I said in my previous post Tarfire kills every non Goyf relevant creature and you have dismembers for the Goyfs. I strongly advise at least a couple of Tarfires because I had several games where I would get my opponents down to around 4 or 5 life and run out of gas while they stabilize with Punishing Fire and Grove. Having the tutorable shock always let me feel like I had a chance(like the game I beat double E Plague). If you really aren't a fan then maybe try 2 Tarfire 2 Dismember and 2 Bolts for variance sake.