[Deck] Goblins

[magicmerl]

The reason I like Tin Street Hooligan is because sometimes you need to kill an artifact on the 2nd or 3rd turn, or don't have 4 land in play.

[Avatara]

I just wanted to point out that Tarfire can never actually kill Goyf because of the way the rules stack when it comes to Goyf checking his power/toughness and checking damage. Goyf checks his Power/Toughness first, then checks damage, so by the time Goyf "sees" the 2 damage from Tarfire he's already 2/3 because Tarfire is in the GY (Tribal Instant). It's a convoluted rule, but it's my understanding taht that's how it would work.

That's not true.. if Planar Void or Rest in Peace is in play; Tarfire can kill Tarmogoyf

[goblinsplayer]

The reason I like Tin Street Hooligan is because sometimes you need to kill an artifact on the 2nd or 3rd turn, or don't have 4 land in play.

I have tried tin street hooligan and i personally didnt like it much. It's just a 2/1 with warchief out in play, also, the fact that you run one in your deck, reduces your chance of drawing him. You usually destroy an artifact on the 4th turn with hooligan because you have to matron on turn three and cant cast hooligan. And vial does not work well with it either. I much rather prefer scrapper than hooligan but the krosan grips are very good in the green splash

[goblinsplayer]

@ Marcelo:
Thanks for the reply!
Well, as far as I know people who write for websites/Blogs actually need to write on a regular basis and about several topics. I only write whenever I feel the urge to do so (and I dont want to be driven by something else than that). Besides, I'm an expert on Goblins only. I literally have no experience with other decks (well, I do know the one or two things about storm combo...) and I don't consider myself to be a good player or something. I'm a legacy-nerd....no, even worse: a Legacy-Goblin-nerd.



Thanks for that - you are right of course. I know this interaction, but somehow while writing this I was thinking of Tarmogoyf as a */* creature (instead of */*+1). Fixed that.

could you give me your most recent list, the one you are running now?

[Bichon_Blitz]

We shouldn't be worrying so much about goyf. The majority of the time we're chump blocking him and the last I checked, he can only block 1 creature. We should usually be winning against goyf decks by overrunning the opponent (at least I do running 2 Krenkos). Occasionally, yeah, gempalm will kill an early one or they'll be forced to block piledriver but I don't fret if I can't. Red has never been good at large creature kill.

This is why I play tarfire. I'm not terribly concerned if it pumps goyf, it deals very well against drs, sfm, metalworker, mommy runes...you get the picture. And it does this early when gempalm can't a lot of times. And lightning bolt? The amount of times I had a tarfire and wished it was bolt are few. Hope that my opponent falls for it and chumps a 1/1, then tarfire. I can't say the same about the opposite. Ringleader into bolt makes me a sad panda.

[Dice_Box]

Ok call me naive (and I know for sure this has been touched on before) but why run Tarfire over something like Stingscourger or Gempalm? Sting removes a problem, maybe not permanently but at least it removes it and Gem gives you a hit and draw. That draw can save a game for you. Other than the slight cost drop I myself can not see a reason to use a space for Tar over other removal that goblins have at their disposal.

(Chances are in two days you guys are all going to point out stuff I have missed and I am going to end up running them tho... Love magic, always surprising.)

[B-rad]

Ok call me naive (and I know for sure this has been touched on before) but why run Tarfire over something like Stingscourger or Gempalm? Sting removes a problem, maybe not permanently but at least it removes it and Gem gives you a hit and draw. That draw can save a game for you. Other than the slight cost drop I myself can not see a reason to use a space for Tar over other removal that goblins have at their disposal.

(Chances are in two days you guys are all going to point out stuff I have missed and I am going to end up running them tho... Love magic, always surprising.)

Tarfire is good because it kills DRS turn 1 and lets your lackeys connect. Other reasons its good is it kills flipped delvers(without requiring you to have 2 guys to gempalm it) and also kills SFM without you having to stingscourger it and let them search up another piece of equipment. I've also been in situations against BUG decks where I get them down to a low enough life total where they stabilize with 2 E Plagues or something and having the reach Tarfire provides gives me am out to finish them off(by it being tutorable with matron and ringleader). The card is very good in a lot of matchups and against combo it's an easy card to board out which I like.

[Geeksire]

Tarfire is an excellent card to use since it has synergy with our decks, but using Gempalm can be pretty annoying in how you need to get creatures on the battlefield to do that sort of damage. I keep at least 3 of each in my deck but there have been times where I wished I had more goblins in play to use Gempalm, this is where MWM can be very helpful so you can have more goblins in play (early since our decks usually do not have a lot of 1 mana drops)! As for Stingscourcher, he is extremely helpful in a deck but at times can hinder yourself when the only removal you have is him in your hand and Stoneforge on the field. (I have ran in to that and had no choice but to return her to his/her hand...)

I think Gempalm is good but the right amount of cards that should be in a deck, I believe, should be around what GoboLord said, "2-3 Gempalms". They may give you card draw but it would be effective if it did damage to a strong creature you want since we need to swarm them.

This is how I see these three removals in being helpful:

Tarfire---Pave the way for your Lackey to get a hit, or to get rid of annoying creatures on the field (that must be low on toughness).
Gempalm---Get rid of huge creatures or small creature, but must be able to get a lot of goblins on the field (Good mid to late-game but can be hard early game.)
Stingscourcher---Allows us to slow down the opponent and also be a douche to Show and Tell and Reanimator decks : D (Really good card, but is better saved for creatures who costed a lot of mana, or who are causing a problem for you to hit.)

[goblinsplayer]

has anyone here tried warren weirding? I have been playing it forever and it kills DRS just as well as tarfire and also good against show and tell/emrakul decks.

[B-rad]

has anyone here tried warren weirding? I have been playing it forever and it kills DRS just as well as tarfire and also good against show and tell/emrakul decks.

I always found Warren Weirding to be kind of slow and clunky....Stingscourger pretty much does the same thing vs S+T decks with odds of it being uncounterable being quite high

[Dice_Box]

I always found Warren Weirding to be kind of slow and clunky....Stingscourger pretty much does the same thing vs S+T decks with odds of it being uncounterable being quite high

Have to agree with this. With Cavern and Vial kicking around I really think that if you can make a creature do whatever it is you want then you are better off taking that route. Some times you can't use a creature to do a deed but when you can I say take that path.

[Geeksire]

Hello everyone! I wanted to ask you a silly question regarding Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker with his main ability. When it says that I can put a token of a non-legendary creature that I control, does it mean that I have to put a copy of a creature that is on the field, in my hand, or in my library?

Thanks and sorry for the dumb question. My friends were saying it can only copy creatures on the field.

[Vandalize]

Hello everyone! I wanted to ask you a silly question regarding Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker with his main ability. When it says that I can put a token of a non-legendary creature that I control, does it mean that I have to put a copy of a creature that is on the field, in my hand, or in my library?

Thanks and sorry for the dumb question. My friends were saying it can only copy creatures on the field.

You can only copy creatures on the play. It really makes no sense to copy creatures on your hand, otherwise it would have a clause like: reveal a card from your hand, or search your library for a card.

[FoxBlade]

Hello everyone! I wanted to ask you a silly question regarding Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker with his main ability. When it says that I can put a token of a non-legendary creature that I control, does it mean that I have to put a copy of a creature that is on the field, in my hand, or in my library?

Thanks and sorry for the dumb question. My friends were saying it can only copy creatures on the field.

Your friends are correct, you can only copy creatures on the battlefield. However, there's a nifty little trick you can do, if you copy at the end of your opponent's turn that token will stick around until the end of your next turn. Using this technique can get you two tokens out on the field at once (with haste mind you) and can sometimes result in a turn 3 kill (if you run piledriver).

[GoboLord]

Hello everyone! I wanted to ask you a silly question regarding Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker with his main ability. When it says that I can put a token of a non-legendary creature that I control, does it mean that I have to put a copy of a creature that is on the field, in my hand, or in my library?

Thanks and sorry for the dumb question. My friends were saying it can only copy creatures on the field.

A simple rule that you can keep in mind to solve this and similar problems is this:

On the battlefield Goblin King is a creature.
On the stack (while being cast), Goblin King is a creature-SPELL
In any other zone (hand, library, graveyard exile) it's acreature-CARD

[jrw1985]

Things I learned while going 0-2 last night:

Wastesland should generally be used for mana against Esperblade. They have too many fetches to really mana-screw.

If you can kill/blank Batterskull and Jace then you probably win the Esperblade MU.

Legion Loyalist is exactly as unremarkable as I thought he would be.

Against Storm decks with Cabal Ritual, RiP is good. Against Storm decks with Rite of Flame, RiP is bad.

[orcanmail]

Just come across a card called boggart birth rite, 1 black mana tribal sorcery to return goblin card from graveyard to hand.

Would this allow us to effectively have more ringleaders and matrons and chain together our deck? Is this a good card?

[jrw1985]

Just come across a card called boggart birth rite, 1 black mana tribal sorcery to return goblin card from graveyard to hand.

Would this allow us to effectively have more ringleaders and matrons and chain together our deck? Is this a good card?

Don't do it man! Run a card that does something instead.

[RogueBuild]

I must say I feel vindicated. It only took 5 or 6 years but when Lorwyn was printed, and without a second thought, I put 3 Tarfires (some times 4) in my deck, and nearly everyone said it was a crap card and all i was doing was feeding my opponent's Goyf. Today people are not only supporting the card but questions if they need to include Lightning Bolts (which is what I pulled out to put in the Tarfires and people said I shouldn't be running those either). Guess I was just years ahead of my time...

[GoboLord]

I must say I feel vindicated. It only took 5 or 6 years but when Lorwyn was printed, and without a second thought, I put 3 Tarfires (some times 4) in my deck, and nearly everyone said it was a crap card and all i was doing was feeding my opponent's Goyf. Today people are not only supporting the card but questions if they need to include Lightning Bolts (which is what I pulled out to put in the Tarfires and people said I shouldn't be running those either). Guess I was just years ahead of my time...

Yeah...either that or it's because cards like Stoneforge Mystic, Delver of Secrets and Deathrite shaman didn't exist at that time....
6 years ago THE creatue you wanted to beat was Tarmogoyf, which is obviously not the best target for Tarfire.