[Deck] Goblins

[RogueBuild]

there have always been 1 and 2 toughness creatures out there to kill and its not like Goyf has gone away.

[GoboLord]

there have always been 1 and 2 toughness creatures out there to kill and its not like Goyf has gone away.

There have always been enchantments...and we still don't run Reverent Silence.
It's the IMPORTANCE of the cards that matter, not wether they exist or not.
However, you can make yourself belief that you were way ahead of your time - I'm fine with that. Just dont spam this thread with this non-sense... I mean, honestly, what kind of answer did you expect?

[RogueBuild]

There have always been enchantments...and we still don't run Reverent Silence.
It's the IMPORTANCE of the cards that matter, not wether they exist or not.
However, you can make yourself belief that you were way ahead of your time - I'm fine with that. Just dont spam this thread with this non-sense... I mean, honestly, what kind of answer did you expect?

GoboLord,

You do miss 1 very important detail (likely because you were rushing to post a rude comment without thinking); on your 2nd turn when you are wanting to swing with a Lackey, ANY blocker is important and therefore worth burning. Is there really any potential blocker that you could say "that creature is so unimportant it is not worth killing it so my Lackey can make contact and I can drop _(insert goblin here)_."

I'm not saying there are not more important 1 and 2 toughness creatures thee days, I'm saying to execute the goblin game plan Tarfire was always a good idea.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I must say I feel vindicated.

Dude, this is the first post you have ever made in this thread. Who exactly do you feel vindication from? Your friends at home? No one here has ever said anything to you about your idea on goblins.

I must say I feel vindicated.

And you start your first post off like this? That comes across really pompous. Gobolord called you out correctly. Re-read your post in the mindset of someone other than you.

I must say I feel vindicated.

Tarfire is good now. It wasn't always. A cards importance varies over time. Remember when Phyrexian Dreadnought was a thing? Remember when Progenitus was the worst thing someone could grab with NO?

[RogueBuild]

this isn't the 1st goblin thread. Pretty sure it isn't even the 2nd. Might be the 3rd. but my earlier posts on goblins go back many years now and at least 1 thread of over 200 pages ago. To give you an idea, MoggFans and other sac-able creatures could still deal combat and sac damage. At the time I was running GobLegionaries. Some of us have been playing for more then 5 years.


Seriously? You are comparing a couple cards that are only good when used in combination with other specific cards (some time printed years later) with a card that fills the slot of spot removal in a deck where the simple fact it also counts as a goblin is enough to make it many times more useful then if it didn't.

Do you care to try again and find a better example to support your argument?

[Ace/Homebrew]

my earlier posts on goblins go back many years now.

Not on this forum.

This is the first post you made on this board. You've made 108 since, mostly in Burn and Pox.

I must say I feel vindicated.

That was your first post on mtgthesource in the Goblins thread.
Click on my name and select View Forum Posts. You can see where I post too. This information isn't a secret.

I must say I feel vindicated.

[ScatmanX]

Have to agree with GobboLord here. Tarfire just sucked back then.
Against Zoo? yay, kills Lavamancer. Against Canadian Threshold? Yay, did nothing. Against Counterbalance? Yay, nothing again.

Now most of the decks we face have Shamans, Delvers, Stoneforges and company, so yeah, Tarfire did got better, as Instigator is from time to time, as Piledriver, and many others....

[RogueBuild]

It did take me a min to figure out why I couldn't find my much older posts but when I went digging I found the reason. This is my 2nd profile here, my 1st I had long ago forgotten the password to and for whatever reason couldn't reset. My 1st profile was DWolf from when I still lived in Austin. On page 24, very top, of the [DTB] Vial Goblins thread you will find 1 of my very old posts taking about some of the card selection issues. When I looked at the profile it says there are 13 posts but only lists the location of that 1. I don't care enough to go digging for others but they are out there.

So while I can understand the hesitance in believing me when I say I said something years ago, the actual information backing my argument is a different issue... When Tarfire was printed people where shooting it down, while still playing MoggFan.

Go figure...

[Bichon_Blitz]

The eternal formats change with every set added. Just look at what abrupt decay/drs has done. And shallow grave being played again, in a deck with children of korlis, because griselbrand was reprinted (and somehow hasn't been banned, yet). In 6 years, who knows what will happen. Goblins not being playable? Or Legacy on it's deathbed ?

[jrw1985]

Guys, quit bashing RogueBuild. This is unnecessary.

Does anyone actually have anything to say about Goblins today? I'm playing in a medium sized tourney in like 3 hours and I have like 3 SB slots I need help filling.

MD 3 Thalia

SB
3 Chalice
3 Rip
3 Pyro
2 K Grip
1 TSH
3X

What should the last 3 slots be? Rwg build.

[orcanmail]

Guys, quit bashing RogueBuild. This is unnecessary.

Does anyone actually have anything to say about Goblins today? I'm playing in a medium sized tourney in like 3 hours and I have like 3 SB slots I need help filling.

MD 3 Thalia

SB
3 Chalice
3 Rip
3 Pyro
2 K Grip
1 TSH
3X

What should the last 3 slots be? Rwg build.

Same as my current SB in my MD Thalia build. I add an extra krosan grip and 2 x surgical extraction as i recently got detroyed by tinfin and griselbrand even when i went mountain lackey. surgical extraction can be cost for 0, and break the combo, so i get to play turn 2!

[jrw1985]

Same as my current SB in my MD Thalia build. I add an extra krosan grip and 2 x surgical extraction as i recently got detroyed by tinfin and griselbrand even when i went mountain lackey. surgical extraction can be cost for 0, and break the combo, so i get to play turn 2!

I have been running into a lot of TinFins recently....

[goblinsplayer]

I have been running into a lot of TinFins recently....

Really? because here in the northeast, nobody, literally NOBODY plays tinfins... Anyways, if i was playing in a meta with a lot of tinfins, i would run in my sideboard, assuming that i am running mono red,
3 surgical extraction
3 tormod's crypt
3 REB
3 chalice
1 scrapper
1 chieftain

I think it is time to run crypt because relic is a bit slow and mono red can't run RIP. crypt is faster and has a similar effect to relic.

[B-rad]

Really? because here in the northeast, nobody, literally NOBODY plays tinfins... Anyways, if i was playing in a meta with a lot of tinfins, i would run in my sideboard, assuming that i am running mono red,
3 surgical extraction
3 tormod's crypt
3 REB
3 chalice
1 scrapper
1 chieftain

I think it is time to run crypt because relic is a bit slow and mono red can't run RIP. crypt is faster and has a similar effect to relic.

I am going to have to disagree. Crypt may be better vs graveyard based decks but you really need some number of Relics vs Tarmogoyf decks. Jund, BuG, and RuG are all pretty tough matchups and relic can do some serious work vs them. I agree with you on the surgicals as I've now put 2 of them in my board to go along with 3 relics as my gy hate package.

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

Why is warren instigator out? I always liked him a lot because he is such a huge threat for many decks. If he connects with a matron in hand he can do very nasty tricks.



I probably missed the Loyalist discussion, is he playable MD? He certainly is a good SB card in some metas since he really helps with BS.

[edit]did another reading in the thread: Seems like it's 0-1 Loyalist.

Another thing that sprung at me:

Many people seem to be kind of reactionary to opponents deck lists playing many answers (even maindeck pyrokinesis). My goblin philosophy always has been to be as explosive as possible. Just put him under pressure to react, it helps a lot (with cards like instigator/chrome mox, war marshal was always too slow in my eyes).

[goblinsplayer]

I am going to have to disagree. Crypt may be better vs graveyard based decks but you really need some number of Relics vs Tarmogoyf decks. Jund, BuG, and RuG are all pretty tough matchups and relic can do some serious work vs them. I agree with you on the surgicals as I've now put 2 of them in my board to go along with 3 relics as my gy hate package.

Or splash white and run RIP....

[GoboLord]

Many people seem to be kind of reactionary to opponents deck lists playing many answers (even maindeck pyrokinesis). My goblin philosophy always has been to be as explosive as possible. Just put him under pressure to react, it helps a lot (with cards like instigator/chrome mox, war marshal was always too slow in my eyes).

I partly agree with your philosophy of building up pressure. Or as Avatara expressed it a few days ago:

If you can't force them to interact with you during the first couple of turns you are often too far behind. (free Time Walks anyone?)

What Avatara said hits the nail right on the head.
Playing Goblins is not only about "being aggressive" or "being explosive". The cards you play need to be good vs your opponents deck/strategy. i.e. It's a little more complicated than saying "card A is better than card B - always". You have to take into account which decks you will likely face and then work out the best strategy against them and picking up the cards that support your strategy best. That's why Mogg War Marshal is probably too slow, or too 'bad' vs. Esperblade, but he is one of THE BEST cards vs. RUG Thresh. Sometimes you are better off with cards that are slightly less aggressive/explosive (as funny as that may sound, talking about a 3-in-1 creaturecard) - as long as they hinder your opponents gameplan (e.g. when an essential lan of an opponent's deck is to 1-for-1 you all day long, you are better off with a MWM than with Winsiogator).

I'm not saying that either WInstogator or MWM are bad or awsome. I'm just picking up this example to show that things arn't that simple. My conclusion would be that we are better off with thinking of the deck in terms of Avatara's suggestions (force them to interact) tnan with just perceiving it as being as explosive as possible (although that is an important element of course).

[Dice_Box]

When it comes to instigator my view is that hitting turn 3 is far from the same as hitting turn 2.i can see the value of running it but there are better choices for the slot. Stinger or Gempalm come to mind. Of course hitting with it latter in the game can help too but I rather plan for my first 5 turns and fetch Kiki-Jiki and Crafter if the fame goes past that.

[Geeksire]

Hello everyone! Nice discussions on every end, but I would like to show you something that made me happy today. If you are interested in getting cards that are pretty expensive in Legacy, look no further because for some reason Magic the Gathering is releasing a new block that is called "Modern Masters". For sure it will have Tarmogoyf reprinted and City of Brass but it is all about patience when this block is released. I mean who knows! We might even get some goblins to get reprinted again, and maybe even cheaper than they are right now! Hope this is useful information : /

Good for Tarmogoyf players--bad for us since we have to deal with more decks using that card...
BUT! We will see a greater emphasis and number in Legacy, which is always awesome because I would like my store to always have tournaments every week pertaining to Leagcy (damn you Standard...)

"- There are no land cards in packs, each pack contains a foil"
"- New art for many cards, new token cards"
"- Complete set - 101 commons, 60 uncommons, 53 rares, 15 mythics"

Here's the link! Enjoy!
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...ly/feature/218

[Hof]

When it comes to instigator my view is that hitting turn 3 is far from the same as hitting turn 2.i can see the value of running it but there are better choices for the slot. Stinger or Gempalm come to mind.

You can't really count Stingscourger or Gempalm in the 2cc slot, because most likely they do nothing relevant unless you have an active Lackey.