Or an active Piledriver. They work with him too. Stinger takes the sting out of show and tell and sometimes you just need to draw. That's something gempalm is good at.
Yes, they do a lot and should be included, but when you made a reference to "in that slot" I thought you meant the 2cc slot, as in things to do with your mana on turn two? Instigator is a strong turn two play because it advances board position. Cycling a card to little effect is not what you what to be doing on turn two. That is why I think you are comparing the wrong cards. I don't even know why you would assume that decks with Instigator should not also include some number of Stingscourger and Gempalm.
To those who like Instigator I would recommend checking out Brett Parise's recent Goblins list from the Eudaimonia tournament found in the tournament section. I found it most inspiring.
I ask you then, what from say this list will you take out to put in the Instigator's? I am not disputing their power but I just can not see what you would take out to put in. That slot has Piledirvers and removal in it. I have tried to put in Instigator's before as I can see their power. But every time I try they come out after that weekend and something else goes in in their place.
I will admit tho I am thinking about trying out pulling some of my target cards and trying the deck with fetchlands and Smoldering Spires.
In the end I guess it is up to the player. Maybe a dance on Cockatrice might be in order for me tonight with a Instigator build. Still not my favorite card I am sure he can win games. Maybe I will run 2 of him or something later.
Well that list does play two Instigator, so... Anyway, the list is outdated.
What I can say is that I would not play more than two Piledriver, and I would not play any MWM. For me MWM has never been good in testing, and I have sort of come to the conclusion that it is like playing Tarmogoyf in Maverick: It doesn't do anything, and therefore should not be included.
I do not play MWM other than in my Food chain deck but thats for another reason altogether. I loath to cut two piledrivers. I want them in my hand as fast as I can get them and if I do not have to waste time fetching them all the better. Pro blue is worth its weight in gold, add on the buffing... Also the little guy draws so much fire, also useful. Last, he can win you a game. That simple. In the end I see him as more useful that another cheat card when I have lackey and Vial for that.
I'm going to assume that you've never played against RUG delver if you think MWM "doesn't do anything." He blocks Goyf and Geese for days so you can stay alive long enough to win the game and gives you the extra dudes needed to gas up incinerators. Also if you are playing the 4 Chieftain 0 Warchief build(which I currently am) you can unload damage out of nowhere. Maybe your meta is straight combo but ill never leave home without at least 3 of him.Originally Posted by Hof
I have played Goblins vs Threshold many times, on both sides of the matchup. MWM has never impressed me much, what can I say. Chump blocking Tarmogoyf and Nimble Mongoose is rarely a problem, more than half of the cards in Goblins can do that in the midgame if necessary. Delver, now that can be a problem.
It is true that Instigator is strongest against combo and control. But even against say a lone Tarmogoyf on turn two I would often rather have Instigator than MWM. Because it has been my experience that Instigator can deter Tarmogoyf from attacking. Maybe he uses a bolt on it. That clears the way for my haste lord next turn. He would never use a bolt on a MWM.
Maybe it is a matter of playstyle, too.
It also has a nice trick with warren weirding. :)
Went 1-2, Drop, at a 33 player tourney yesterday.
List
4 Vial
4 Lackey
1 Legion Loyalist
2 Tarfire
3 Thalia
3 Piledriver
1 Stingscourger
2 MWM
4 Matron
2 Warchief
2 Cheiftain
3 Gempalm
1 Sharpshooter
4 Ringleader
1 Krenko
1 SGC
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
2 Plateau
2 Taiga
4 Cavern
4 Mountain
6 Fetch
SB
3 Chalice
3 RiP
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 TSH
2 K Grip
1 Tower of the Magistrate
R1 BUG Control
2-0
I sided wrong by bringing in RiP G2. Turns out he wasn't running Goyf or Tombstalker. It didn't matter as I just out-drew him anyway.
R2 Esper Stoneblade
0-2
This is the best deck in the format. It wins GPs and the list is fairly optimized. I've put a lot of cards in my SB to beat it. No dice.
G1 I mulled to a mediocre 6, and a mediocre 6 is generally better than an unknown 5. The 6 was mediocre because it didn't have a 1-drop but did have Thalia. I lost this one pretty handily.
I sided in +2 Grip, Tuktuk, TSH, Tower, - 3 Thalia, Plateau, Stingscourger.
Pretty awesome SB, right? Well, I mulled to 5. He kept 7. I landed a T1 Vial and then we played draw go until he landed a T4 Moat. Then he Jace Fatesealed my KGrips away. Jace ultimate kills me. Blech. I needed REBs or Needle.
R3 Dragon Stompy
1-2
What I'd have done differently....
There are 4 MD slots that I can see dropping: 3 Thalia and 1 Loyalist. Thalia isn't pulling weight. Loyalist blows. Loyalist blows bad. I could see going Rg in the future and dropping W altogether.
Thanks for the report!
I wonder why you didn't stick to you Rancor-built. That one looked pretty good to me and you seemed to be happy with it too. I'm not saying that this would have served you better though. Just being curious why Rancors were in your binder.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
Played in the GPT Brussels today.
List (based on some of ScatmanX's lists):
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Waste
10 Mountain
1 Port
2 Chrome Mox
4 Lackey
4 Vial
4 Lighting bolt
4 Instigator
2 Piledriver
1 Stingscourger
4 Chieftain
4 Matron
1 Warchief
3 Gempalm incinerator
4 Ringleader
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Siege-gang
1 Kiki
SB:
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Chalice
2 Thorn
2 REB
1 Stingscourger
3 Relic
1 Chrome Mox
1 Sharpshooter
Round 1: WW with Stoneforge, equips (including sword of war and peace), hatebears
G1 He does his Stoneforge thing, Matron fetches Tuktuk from daycare to handle it (Good thing I put him maindeck again at the last moment!). Next he misplays by first playing Leonin Arbiter (no library search unless you pay 2), then Stoneforge (no search!). I get Kiki online and overwhelm him.
G2 He plays Grand Arbiter, making me use Vial only on my turn. The first couple goblins vialed in get plowed. His weenies kill me.
G3 I have the nut draw and kill him really fast. Lackey, Bolt your guy, Siege-gang. It doesn't last long after that.
1-0
Round 2: Sneak&Show
G1 I play some gobbos to start the beats, he show&tells in Griselbrand. I draw some more guys with Ringleader. Next turn I decide to attack into grisel, so I can Gempalm kill it. He draws 7 and show&tells in another Griselbrand. I attack again, try to kill it with Gempalm+bolt. He forces the Bolt. Next turn he plays a third show&tell, giving me siege-gang. On my turn, the goblin horde comes crashing in, Grisel&Emrakul block but siege-gang prevents lifelink and I miraculously win this one through a triple Show&Tell.
G2: I slow him down with Thorns, and have Stingscourger in hand for the Show&Tell. He builds mana. I don't put enough pressure. With enough mana, he plays Sneak Attack, and buddies 7/7 and 15/15 smack me in 1 turn.
G3: See game 2, except faster (turn 3).
1-1
Round 3: RUG
G1: He removes all my guys with bolts, Stifles Ringleader, Goyfs kill me.
G2: I get double Relic going, keeping him off of any graveyard. I overwhelm him eventually.
G3: I misplay my second turn by forgetting Vial (Doh!). I can't kill him in the end, only getting him to 1. Costly mistake.
1-2
Round 4: Elf combo
G1: He goes off turn 3.
G2: Bolt kills his initial guys. Chalice at 1 shuts him down.
G3: Pyrokinesis 1 removes 2 Nettle Sentinels so I can beat. Harmonic Sliver kills Chalice at 1, but I Pyrokinesis his Elves a second time. Win.
2-2
Round 5: ANT
G1: I know he is on combo so I mull to 5 but with T1 Lackey. He goes Petal, LED, Burning Wish, resp. sac LED... Grapeshot you for 3, kill Lackey ?!? So he now has no hand, and a single land. I win eventually.
G2: I play a Chalice and a Instigator. He tries to go off, but says he's too tired and scoops. Whew! Dodged the combo bullet.
3-2
Round 6: EsperBlade
G1: I have a really fast start, and can Port him off of playing a Jitte in time.
G2: He gets an active Batterskull, I get lots of goblins. He is stuck on 2 mana however (fetched blue and white), so finally I Gempalm the Germ, and kill him. He tells he kept a hand with Ponder/Brainstorm/Darkblast, but failed to find a third fetch/land.
4-2
5-2 is top 12 and receives the entry fee back in store credit. Here we go...
Round 7: BUG
G1: Weird game. Turn 1 Lackey gets forced. He tells me he really didn't want to play Goblins, since he didn't test against it at all. I seem to get ahead when I Waste most of his mana, but his single DRS keeps him in the game. I have both Siege-gang and Kiki in hand, and Vial is slowly ticking up. At 4, he Abrupt Decays it. Then he plays Tombstalker. I don't draw a fifth mana. He Hymns me. I lose from there, drawing blanks for 3 turns.
G2 (I boarded wrong here by not bringing in Relics): I keep a hand with Vial, Lackey, 2 Instigator, Chieftain. He still contains them by a combination of DRS, Abrupt Decay, and 3 Goyfs. On the final turn his goyfs are 5/6, me at 3, he at 17. He has active DRS, so I'm dead next turn. I can topdeck Stingscourger to deal 19. But I draw Mountain instead...gg.
4-3
The deck mostly did what it had to do, except when I made the mistakes. Chieftains pumping lackey/instigator helped alot, as well as providing the necessary speed. There weren't any obvious cases where I would have preferred Tarfire over Bolt. All SB cards were used, so can't complain there either.
Thanks for the report. Too bad you didn't get the store credits! However, those games sound like you've had your fun today :-D
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Overall it sounds like you could have performed better by playing better (refferring to G3 vs. RUG and Sideboarding vs. BUG), which is actually a good thing, since you can improve your results next time.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
So kicking around a few idea's and came across Smoldering Spires. So my idea is to use it as a spell to tackle some of the creatures I do not want to deal with. The thought for this is to use a fetch land to pull it in the middle of an attack and render something worthless and hit with say Pile or Lackey. Something that can be done out of the blue for free. So I was thinking if I am going to use fetches I am going to have to splash. I have full Black or green splash at hand but really green is a better choice. Also after seeing Rancor here I thought I might play around with it.
Issues:
I have lost 2 Ports in this build. They where all I could cut.
I have no basic lands. Something I myself hate doing.
Cut two Prospector's, first time I have run with less than 3
The Feches mean Root Maze has to be totally cut (No testing with it yet, still need to order it anyway)
Can run slower due to untested Mana.
Advantages:
Has two (possibly unblockable) Instigator's.
Green Splash opens maindeck possibilities like Rancor and Grip.
Smoldering Spires is a left field card. It is unexpected and can come from no where. Can not be counted either.
Thoughts:
Might cut the last two ports for Basic land or might run a Khalni Garden. I am of two minds about this as I do not think the sudden blocker is worth the cost in deck speed.
I think the mana is unstable but its at this point an idea only so...
What are peoples thoughts on this? I have all the card other than Spires and am open to testing it but can anyone see a flaw I have missed?
Deck list
Cretens:
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
2 Skirk Prospector
2 Stingscourger
2 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Matron
3 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Lightning Crafter
2 Warren Instigator
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
Artifacts:
4 Ęther Vial
Other Spells:
2 Rancor
1 Krosan Grip
Land:
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Rishadan Port
2 Smoldering Spires
4 Taiga
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
//Sideboard
SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Goblin Sharpshooter
SB: 1 Krenko, Mob Boss (Might put another Tuktuk Scrapper here)
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
Last edited by Dice_Box; 03-31-2013 at 11:21 PM.
If I were to stream myself playing dailies on MTGO, would you guys be interested?
''The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword.'' Lord Eddard Stark - A Game of Thrones
-Adsum
-ChrisMeister on MTGO
Yes I would for sure, I've been playing goblins for a few weeks on MTGO now and I have to admit the sledding has been pretty rough. I don't think i've gotten paid in a daily yet, probably like 0 for 4.
I can't imagine playing without tuktuk or tsh. Yyou want to be able to matron for one against batterskull/jitte.
Good point. Tuktuk was one of the cards I cut to make the changes. Totally few over me that I had given up my tutor ability. Thanks for that.
Edit, dropping a grip adding a Scrapper.
Fuck yes. i do love watching goblins being played.
You cant find smoldering sires with a fetchland because it isnt a mountain
Interesting idea though. I think I wouldnt like it because of the cipt and goblins normally has a way to use all of its mana but let us know how it goes if you test it.
Right you are. Now I feel half way a fool. Idea was there tho and I still like the card.
As for the Cipt effect, think of it this way:
Smoldering spires (r)
Sorcery
This spell can not be counted
Target creature can not block this turn
(Or another way to put it, no tokens on Jitte this turn.)
Add in that it is a land after you play it and its a bonus. I will have to rethink the deck tho. Ports go back in for one.
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