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Thread: [Deck] Goblins

  1. #7861
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    I'm very surprised to see Settler is gaining traction. It's not that I think it's a bad card, it's just that I don't think mana denial is a good strategy. I also don't think there are enough utility lands to warrant playing mana denial. Well, that's not completely accurate. I think playing mana denial is more detrimental than beneficial at this point because Waste/port weaken our manabase and Settler isn't good against Delver decks. In fact it's bad against Delver. But what do I know? Hopefully I'll get to play again tomorrow and hopefully it goes well again and I'll get to start giving some weight to my performance with 18 mountains.
    I agree with you: mana denial is no longer helping in this deck. But Im not suprised to see Settler gaining attraction. I dont want to lose games because I cant handle Grove of the Burnwillows. So Im trying to Run the minimum number of Wasteland, that can still Deal with this Problem. I would rather want to see a goblin, not a non-badic land, solve this Problem, thats Why I find Settler so attractive. As I said: I don't find it a latently Power card.

    Good luck for your Tournament, looking forward to reading the report.
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  2. #7862
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    I have played settler a few times over the years. Always seems lackluster. Occasionally lived the dream of Kiki + Settler, which instantly made my opponents no longer want to play magic. If someone else has found a good reason for a 4 mana stone rain... bravo.

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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord View Post
    I agree with you: mana denial is no longer helping in this deck. But Im not suprised to see Settler gaining attraction. I dont want to lose games because I cant handle Grove of the Burnwillows. So Im trying to Run the minimum number of Wasteland, that can still Deal with this Problem. I would rather want to see a goblin, not a non-badic land, solve this Problem, thats Why I find Settler so attractive. As I said: I don't find it a latently Power card.(...)
    So basically the main reason for running Goblin Settler is getting rid of those pesky utility lands? Those are mainly non-basic, right? The only advantage it has over Goblin Ruinblaster is not acquiring a kicker-cost... But that advantage is huge, I'll give you that. Being able to tutor for it, cast it of Cavern or vial it in is also pretty neat.

    I will purchase one and find out for myself then! At least it will be a nice addition for my Goblin-collection!

    Quote Originally Posted by potatodavid View Post
    I have played settler a few times over the years. Always seems lackluster. Occasionally lived the dream of Kiki + Settler, which instantly made my opponents no longer want to play magic. If someone else has found a good reason for a 4 mana stone rain... bravo.
    Well, things change, I wouldn't consider Goblin Settler if it wasn't for the rise of popularity of non-basic lands which make Goblins cry. Of course, you have a point: it's a four mana Stone Rain, but it is also tutorable and (almost always) uncounterable.

    A question to all: when running Pendelhaven, would you consider a green splash (mainly for TSH)

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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatto View Post
    So basically the main reason for running Goblin Settler is getting rid of those pesky utility lands? Those are mainly non-basic, right? The only advantage it has over Goblin Ruinblaster is not acquiring a kicker-cost... But that advantage is huge, I'll give you that. Being able to tutor for it, cast it of Cavern or vial it in is also pretty neat.

    I will purchase one and find out for myself then! At least it will be a nice addition for my Goblin-collection!



    Well, things change, I wouldn't consider Goblin Settler if it wasn't for the rise of popularity of non-basic lands which make Goblins cry. Of course, you have a point: it's a four mana Stone Rain, but it is also tutorable and (almost always) uncounterable.

    A question to all: when running Pendelhaven, would you consider a green splash (mainly for TSH)
    Do you understand how kicker and vial, kiki-jiki, lackey and instigator work together? And no TSH is terrible.

  5. #7865
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombiesquisher View Post
    Do you understand how kicker and vial, kiki-jiki, lackey and instigator work together? And no TSH is terrible.
    Kicker doesn't work with either of these cards, that's why he pointed out that Settler is much better than Ruinblaster.
    TSH is not terrible, just worse than Tuktuk scrapper in mono-R and/or Winstigator and/or Kiki-Jiki lists.
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  6. #7866
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    TSH has zero synergy with any of our cards. At least Tuktuk can hit something off a lackey trigger. I don't understand how people were able to top 8 with that dude in their 75.

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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombiesquisher View Post
    TSH has zero synergy with any of our cards. At least Tuktuk can hit something off a lackey trigger. I don't understand how people were able to top 8 with that dude in their 75.
    Does it need overwhelming synergy?

    Step One: Cast it.
    Step Two: Blow shit up.

    Granted Hooligan can't be popped off of Lackey or Vial, but it's still a Shatter on legs with the Goblin type and it got/gets the job done. What's not to like?

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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by iamajellydonut View Post
    Does it need overwhelming synergy?

    Step One: Cast it.
    Step Two: Blow shit up.

    Granted Hooligan can't be popped off of Lackey or Vial, but it's still a Shatter on legs with the Goblin type and it got/gets the job done. What's not to like?
    G splash. You get Tin Street, Pendelhaven, and... K Grip? Doesn't seem worth it.

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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    G splash. You get Tin Street, Pendelhaven, and... K Grip? Doesn't seem worth it.
    I don't give a shit about a green splash. I was speaking only with regards to whoever that guy was calling Tin Street Hooligan trash.
    Last edited by iamajellydonut; 09-17-2014 at 12:51 AM. Reason: wrong person

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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Ehm, right... Ok.

    Thank you all for your opinions. It has become clear (and also made very clear by some) to me that by playing a WInstigator-list other splash-colours are favorable. And yes I know how the mechanics work Lets keep things civilized, my fellow Goblins: we might be Goblin-players, but let us not act like them

  11. #7871

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    I'm very surprised to see Settler is gaining traction. It's not that I think it's a bad card, it's just that I don't think mana denial is a good strategy. I also don't think there are enough utility lands to warrant playing mana denial. Well, that's not completely accurate. I think playing mana denial is more detrimental than beneficial at this point because Waste/port weaken our manabase and Settler isn't good against Delver decks. In fact it's bad against Delver. But what do I know? Hopefully I'll get to play again tomorrow and hopefully it goes well again and I'll get to start giving some weight to my performance with 18 mountains.

    There seems to be a lengthy discussion on one of my favorite cards Goblin Settler. I have been a big advocate of the card and played it pretty heavily over the last few months in several hundred games. In fact the only reason I started playing legacy online is the printing of Settler in VMA, so yes I believe the card is not only powerful but very misunderstood. I have been asked several times why I think the card is so good, and I believe the reason is easy. Imagine a card that makes Goblins a turn faster. Instead of being able to goldfish consistently a turn 4 win you can win turn 3. That card would be extremely good, and would be played heavily. Well Goblin Settler does that... kinda. In combo matchups instead of making your deck a turn faster it makes your opponents deck a turn slower. While not exactly the same, destroying a basic land or mana source will often set your opponent back that one turn. My old goblin deck had exactly one combination to kill on turn 3, which is Lackey + KJ + Piledriver, and I had tons and tons of combinations to kill on turn 4 with Instigator, maybe 50-60. There isn't anything I could do to make my deck faster, but adding Settler, it gave me a unique angle ( that is tutorable) to consistently slow my opponents down one turn. Settler also can destroy some combo decks if you also have KJ, which with Instigator and any matron is more a reality than dream scenario, it happens a lot.

    That was the reason I moved to one Settler in the main. The reason I moved to two is, Instigator and Goblin Lackey need strong ETB targets to put into play. Turn one lackey, turn two attack and put into play.... Well one of the best cards to put into play is Ringleader. However outside of Ringleader, there aren't a lot of haymakers. Krenko used to be in that slot, and he has gotten much worse, as has a second Tuktuk scrapper. In my mind the only real competitor for that 2nd slot would be SGC, but the CMC of 5 and not running a Piledriver to take full advantage makes me choose Settler. The 'Instigator builds' Rely on connecting more than other builds and you need cards with ETB, hence Tuktuk over TSH. And out of the ETB cards I find Settler to be the most Game Over card when you connect. Doesn't matter if its against combo, control, or midrange, Settler is a strong ETB ability, and goblins don't have many alternatives. Yes Matron is great ETB, but turn 2 matron is extremely mediocre. It doesn't become better until you have a developed Vial, or more Mana sources.

    The last reason I like Settler, is it is a good card in certain matchups. I already have talked about how I think its very good against Combo decks, but its also very good against Lands/12 Posts, and Miracles. Then there is the games where it will come and wreck utility lands, like Burnwillows, Karakas, Cradle, and more recently Inkmoth Nexus. And then there are the games where you Wasteland into Settler out an opponent. However as you have noted, Settler is not very good against Delver decks. That is mostly true. It is not very good against RUG or UWR. Besides our RUG matchup is pretty solid even with Settlers in the MB.

    Anways, just my thoughts.

  12. #7872
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by iamajellydonut View Post
    I don't give a shit about a green splash. I was speaking only with regards to whoever that guy was calling Tin Street Hooligan trash.

    You asked What's not to like? I answered Green splash.

    Speaking of not liking color-splash...

    What are the best mono Red sideboard cards?

    My first thoughts..

    Chalice of the Void
    Mindbreak Trap
    pithing Needle
    Tuktuk Scrapper
    Pyrokinesis
    Relic of Progenitus
    Tormod's Crypt
    Surgical Extraction

    What else is good that's either free, red, or brown?

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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    You asked What's not to like? I answered Green splash.

    Speaking of not liking color-splash...

    What are the best mono Red sideboard cards?

    My first thoughts..

    Chalice of the Void
    Mindbreak Trap
    pithing Needle
    Tuktuk Scrapper
    Pyrokinesis
    Relic of Progenitus
    Tormod's Crypt
    Surgical Extraction

    What else is good that's either free, red, or brown?
    Goblin Settler
    Goblin Sharpshooter
    Boartusk Liege
    Grafdigger's Cage (which I find better than Tormod's Crypt and Surgical Extraction)
    Chrome Mox
    Thorn of Amethyst/ Eidolon the Great Revel (depending on what kind of combodeck you have in mind)
    Dismember
    Stingscourger
    Confusion in the Ranks
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  14. #7874
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    You asked What's not to like? I answered Green splash.

    Speaking of not liking color-splash...

    What are the best mono Red sideboard cards?

    My first thoughts..

    Chalice of the Void
    Mindbreak Trap
    pithing Needle
    Tuktuk Scrapper
    Pyrokinesis
    Relic of Progenitus
    Tormod's Crypt
    Surgical Extraction

    What else is good that's either free, red, or brown?
    -Cage
    -confusion in the ranks
    -the phone number to wizards to stop printing lackluster goblins.

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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    I'm sorry, but Sulfur Elemental and Anarchy are not what I would call 'good' SB cards.
    Sulfur Elemental might kill Mother of runes, Flickerwisp, Aven Mindcensor and Thalia, but in return it makes the REALLY scary creatures of D&T even more scary.
    4/2 Flying, Vigiliance, anyone? Or 3/1 Doublestrike? Or 4/3 first strike?. Plus it does not affect Phyrexian Revoker, which I find a very good card against goblins.

    Anarchy is also not vey good against D&T because we basically NEVER have the luxury to spend 4 mana on anything (even less so if it is a non-creature spell).

    And: isn't Pithing Needle always better than Revoker, because (1) it costs 1 less to cast and (2) is harder to remove?
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by mrblueduck View Post
    There seems to be a lengthy discussion on one of my favorite cards Goblin Settler. I have been a big advocate of the card and played it pretty heavily over the last few months in several hundred games. In fact the only reason I started playing legacy online is the printing of Settler in VMA, so yes I believe the card is not only powerful but very misunderstood. I have been asked several times why I think the card is so good, and I believe the reason is easy. Imagine a card that makes Goblins a turn faster. Instead of being able to goldfish consistently a turn 4 win you can win turn 3. That card would be extremely good, and would be played heavily. Well Goblin Settler does that... kinda. In combo matchups instead of making your deck a turn faster it makes your opponents deck a turn slower. While not exactly the same, destroying a basic land or mana source will often set your opponent back that one turn. My old goblin deck had exactly one combination to kill on turn 3, which is Lackey + KJ + Piledriver, and I had tons and tons of combinations to kill on turn 4 with Instigator, maybe 50-60. There isn't anything I could do to make my deck faster, but adding Settler, it gave me a unique angle ( that is tutorable) to consistently slow my opponents down one turn. Settler also can destroy some combo decks if you also have KJ, which with Instigator and any matron is more a reality than dream scenario, it happens a lot.

    That was the reason I moved to one Settler in the main. The reason I moved to two is, Instigator and Goblin Lackey need strong ETB targets to put into play. Turn one lackey, turn two attack and put into play.... Well one of the best cards to put into play is Ringleader. However outside of Ringleader, there aren't a lot of haymakers. Krenko used to be in that slot, and he has gotten much worse, as has a second Tuktuk scrapper. In my mind the only real competitor for that 2nd slot would be SGC, but the CMC of 5 and not running a Piledriver to take full advantage makes me choose Settler. The 'Instigator builds' Rely on connecting more than other builds and you need cards with ETB, hence Tuktuk over TSH. And out of the ETB cards I find Settler to be the most Game Over card when you connect. Doesn't matter if its against combo, control, or midrange, Settler is a strong ETB ability, and goblins don't have many alternatives. Yes Matron is great ETB, but turn 2 matron is extremely mediocre. It doesn't become better until you have a developed Vial, or more Mana sources.

    The last reason I like Settler, is it is a good card in certain matchups. I already have talked about how I think its very good against Combo decks, but its also very good against Lands/12 Posts, and Miracles. Then there is the games where it will come and wreck utility lands, like Burnwillows, Karakas, Cradle, and more recently Inkmoth Nexus. And then there are the games where you Wasteland into Settler out an opponent. However as you have noted, Settler is not very good against Delver decks. That is mostly true. It is not very good against RUG or UWR. Besides our RUG matchup is pretty solid even with Settlers in the MB.

    Anways, just my thoughts.
    ^^^ This guy gets it! Great reasons to run Settler, and many of them are why I'm considering purchasing a second or third for my sideboard. I've actually been wondering lately if I could get away with going back to mono red and turning my Earwig Squads into Settlers.

  18. #7878
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    What are the best mono Red sideboard cards?
    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord View Post
    I'm sorry, but Sulfur Elemental and Anarchy are not what I would call 'good' SB cards.
    Sulfur Elemental might kill Mother of runes, Flickerwisp, Aven Mindcensor and Thalia, but in return it makes the REALLY scary creatures of D&T even more scary.
    Sorry, I didn't see the goalposts move to just be mono-red sideboard cards against D+T.

    And Anarchy is the only card I know of in mono-red to handle Moat, Humility, Solitary Confinement, and other enchantments...

    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord View Post
    And: isn't Pithing Needle always better than Revoker, because (1) it costs 1 less to cast and (2) is harder to remove?
    Phyrexian Revoker is always better if you want to stop a mana ability on a non-land card (like Dimir Signet). Pithing Needle is always better if you want to stop a non-mana ability on a land (like Karakas).
    You've listed Revoker 8 times in the primer as a sideboard card. It is considered 'tier 2', but it is always the card listed right after Pithing Needle. I remember some discussion over which was 'better' and recall two of the +'s for Revoker being that it attacks for 2 and can be vialed into play.

  19. #7879

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    I have been liking Price of Progress in my SB. Why play Blood Moon when you can kill players outright?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrblueduck View Post
    ...
    +1, I'll give 2 Goblin Settlers MD a shot.

    And: isn't Pithing Needle always better than Revoker, because (1) it costs 1 less to cast and (2) is harder to remove?
    Revoker stops LED and Metalworker. Revoker also serves as a clock vs. combo. Needle is more flexible though.

  20. #7880
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by cooljets View Post
    ^^^ This guy gets it! Great reasons to run Settler, and many of them are why I'm considering purchasing a second or third for my sideboard. I've actually been wondering lately if I could get away with going back to mono red and turning my Earwig Squads into Settlers.
    I played monoR last week and hadn't considered Settler as Goblin-shaped combo hate... But I don't run Winstigator or kiki-Jiki so I'm not certain Settler is a good fit for my build.

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