You imply that cutting Piledrivers for Chieftains or Krenkos turns goblins into an 'all-out aggro deck' but Piledriver does literally nothing except attack.
Chieftain and Krenko both have some additional utility outside of attacking in terms of giving haste and protecting your guys from sweepers (Golgari Charm, Engineered Plague and the like), and flooding the board with blockers (plus additional marginal applications like getting tokens for your Siege Gang or whatever).
Krenko is certainly less exciting without a haste lord but so is Piledriver.
Both Chieftain and Krenko are better than Piledriver if you're casting them into an empty board, which can happen a reasonable amount against the fair decks with removal. Not every game goes to plan with endless Ringleader chains - Piledriver is just not a very resilient card.
(Note that I'm not saying Chieftain and Krenko are the only alternatives, you could add another MWM or a 24th land or a Sparksmith or the 4th Gempalm or anything).
Nobody is comparing Piledriver to Stoneforge Mystic. I was comparing a dud Piledriver to a vanilla 1/2 for 2 mana.Don't think of piledriver as Stoneforge Mystic. Think of it as a purely tactical card that says: if you can get your opponent to drop his guard, play this and win. No one playtests the matchup; punish them accordingly.
What does the second sentence even mean? 'Goblins has completely fallen off the radar and the current crop of players have no knowledge of cards that aren't modern-legal so Piledriver lets you kill your opponent by vialing it in endstep when they tap out.' Seems like a pretty wonky justification for playing a card.
My understanding of your argument is that you're usually going to have a field with a few goblins, and all three of these goblins exist only to put more power onto your board, so play Piledriver because it's the cheapest and has the maximum damage potential. But I still can't see how you think it's the best option when it's the most synergy-dependent of the three cards mentioned and your stated goal is to be paired against decks that have removal and blockers. I definitely wouldn't cut all of them but I think you need at least 1 Krenko somewhere in the 75 and this is what I would cut to fit it.
I personally like 4x piledriver because it allows you to go from 0 to 60 really fast. It also helps absorb removal from more important goblins like warchief.
Being able to threaten a ridiculous alpha strike at any moment is significant even if you don't plan on making the attack. We can approach the game as a control deck and the slam hasty piledrivers the moment our opponent slips up. Chieftain and Krenko require a turn or two to heat up.
Also, having a pro-blue dude is very relevant at times.
While Krenko and chieftain are solid picks, I wouldn't take out piledrivers to run them. I'd sooner take out a settler or one of my stingscourgers (but I like the 2 main stringscourger for a variety of reasons)
Additionally, having a cost of 1R is a plus. Being able to play him on a single red source is a valid strength.
Anyone cares to read the opening post, where gobolord explains perfectly the function of piledriver ? If you don't have time/will to do so i can remember to you :
- piledriver is a two drop and we don't have a lot of good two drops (piledriver/instigator/thalia/war marshal)
- piledriver gives us at least a possibility to race combo decks
- piledriver against fair decks either is a "spot removal" for big creatures, because they will be forced to block him if we alpha strike, or takes a removal spell that would otherwise be pointed to mor eimportant things like haste lord.
These are the essential functions of piledriver, but other considerations can be done like pro blue is relevant against merfolk and nowadays true name nemesis; he can steal games because having 2-3 of them on the field is a nightmare for every opponent.... and so on
All that said, he was way more powerful years ago, now he is just a role player and i don't personally think is necessary to play 4 copies. I wouldn't cut him completely though and in my opinion 2-3 copies is the sweet spot (i prefer 3)
Apologies for the mumbo-jumbo I wrote earlier, I'd just spent 36 hours straight on a uni assignment and wasn't really awake when I wrote it, but it seems Goblinpiledriver and LeoCop90 got what I was trying to say, so cheers for that boys.
But back to PD.
It's all about the mana curve + impact.
This is the curve of my deck;
If I had Chieftains and TukTuks and Krenkos, my curve shoots way up, and then by the time I'm casting meaningful stuff, the game's over. Source: It happened to me many times when I was playing bad goblins lists.
What I meant by "Piledriver is not Stoneforge" is that Stoneforge is the type of card that just tends to wins games by itself. Get whatever equipment is the best, and then ride it to victory. Piledriver is not that. Goblins in general is not that. Goblins is an incredibly hard deck to play because you need to be able to keep your board going while interacting with your opponent. If your curve is low like mine, you can bob and weave with your dorks while Porting and Wasting.
When I said Piledriver is played tactically, the most obvious tactic is this: You exhaust your opponent of removal, you keep getting him to waste it on meaningless shit like lackeys and ringleaders and then just when your opponent thinks it's fine to tap out or empty his hand, you push the nitrous button and end the game. I've made that play a million times and it never gets old. If you're not playing 4 Drivers, how can you realistically fight through removal or even push through a single chump blocker?
I'm not saying all goblins lists should play 4 Drivers, but if you're playing the classic R/G Vial goblins, 4 Drivers is correct.
So here's a pile of awesome that somehow won a GP trial this weekend in Kyoto. After some consideration, I have decided that the Radkos Ringleader is a typo that was supposed to be Goblin Ringleader. Maindeck Chalice finally makes an appearance at a large event.
HIROSHI TAKABE - GPT J
Creature (27)
4 Goblin Lackey
2 Goblin Piledriver
1 Mogg War Marshal
1 Stingscourger
1 Sparksmith
4 Goblin Matron
3 Goblin Warchief
2 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Goblin Chieftain
4 Rakdos Ringleader
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Lightning Crafter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
Instant (1)
1 Pyrokinesis
Artifact (3)
3 Chalice of the Void
Land (23)
2 Mountain
3 Plateau
1 Badlands
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Rishadan Port
3 Wasteland
Tribal instant (2)
2 Tarfire
Other (4)
4 AEther Vial
60 Cards
Sideboard (15)
1 Lightning Crafter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Pyrokinesis
1 Chalice of the Void
4 Rest in Peace
3 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Boartusk Liege
1 Earwig Squad
1 Tear
Here's the link, which includes a nifty hand-generator. Maindeck Chalice looks good!
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/c...sts-2015-04-17
Sweet.
I wish I knew how to read japonese. Would pay close attention to goblins forums and decklist there. They often have some nice innovations that I'm really happy to try out.
Any chance he writes a repost anywhere?
Ps: 4 ports, 3 wastes. B splash just for 1 squad sb. Canonist instead of thalia. 2 craters.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
I've heard of people running 1-of Lightning Crafter, but for an infinite combo involving Kiki-Jiki. I guess Takabe just thought tossing bolts every turn was good value.
"Move swift as a wind, stay silent as a forest. Strike fierce as a fire, be stalwart as a mountain."
3 Wastes - You gotta cut something to support 2 color splashes.Originally Posted by ScatmanX
1 Earwig Squad - as Christian pointed out, Squad is basically an auto-win against Miracles. And ANT. And can be very surprising against SFM decks.
Canonist instead of Thalia - Canonists hoses Omniscience better. Also, Chalice makes him less worried about Storm so his hatebears are focused more on SnT combo.
2 Lightning Crafters - He is running 5 haste lords so he's going with Krenko and Crafter rather than SGC. It keeps the curve down and deals with all those pesky x/2s in the format.
It's a good looking list.
I've been thinking about running lightning crafter for a while. Pretty solid against creature decks as well as annoying things like moat. The 3 card combo with Kiki and skirk prospector is icing on the cake. I think one of the best applications is to champion a matron or ringleader.
I think 3 wastes could be dangerous if you've got lands players around
Also, opinions on number of squads and whether to main or side them? I'd love to play it but don't know if it's better main or side and whether I should run multiple.
So the black splash is currently the best splash, or has always been the best splash?
"Be it ever so crumbled, there's no place like home."
RGCL (GQ)
Youtube-playlist dedicated to RGCL
How does this combo work?
Tap kiki to copy crafter.
Crafter-copy Champions Kiki-Jiki.
Tap copy to deal 3 damage.
Sacrifice the copy into skirk prospector.
Kiki-Jiki returns to the battlefield untapped.
Start over again.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
Hi guys,
Just a thought.
I've been testing Impact Tremors & Arms Dealer as sideboard choices.
Tremors is more a casual choice, but just wondering if anyone has bothered to test it in Legacy given most lists run Krenko & SGC.
Arms Dealer is one I've used as a sideboard option for a while. It's won me a few games in the past. I know the accepted choice here is Goblin Sharpshooter and whilst I see the merit in that choice, 1 damage isn't always useful.
Thoughts?
Hah, that's a name I have not seen in a while. Takabe Hiroshi was pretty active back in 2009 to 2010 playing at ACM. His last deck splashed green for Mirri's Guile for the MD and TSH in the SB. His list is actually really close to Yamakawa Yuu's list: http://www.happymtg.com/decks/view/D077164
Their list is quite top heavy compared classic list. The higher mana curve is why they opt to remove Wastelands rather than Rishadan Port. They need the mana, even if it is colorless.
The Japanese don't really have online forums to talk about MtG, iirc. It is mostly blogs by individuals and some even go to Western forums. I think most of the innovation is based on personal taste and card restrictions (as in the actual supply of cards).
This also works:How does this combo work?
Tap Kiki to copy Crafter
Crafter-copy Champions Kiki
Tap Sharpshooter to deal 1 damage
Tap Crafter-copy to kill itself
Untap Sharpshooter
Kiki-Jiki returns to the battlefield untapped.
Start over again.
thanks for the feedback! i thought that was a 2-card combo, but the combo is verycool, nonetheless =)
seems like the GPT version of goblins is pretty fun to play, and great against combo.
I've been toying w/ Winstigator (naya splash, hatebear/rip/settler), and it has been awesome in my meta (bugs, storm, sneak and show and tribal decks )
My tech: lotus petal (2, playing 21 lands + 2 lotus petal), instead of chrome mox . it`s been great, and I am playing white for hatebears/RiPs (which have been excellent here), and they allow me to play winstigator/thalia/cointaniment priest/rip turn 1! =D
I've playing 14-20 men events, and been having 3-1 results. Later I'll post the list later, if you are curious.
thanks a lot, guys, for all the feedback and I would like to hear your thoughts on the lotus petal tech.
I'm not 100% certain it's the same player, but I believe this is the blog and GPT tournament report of the player whose list JRW1985 quoted:
http://aiueoaiueo.diarynote.jp/?day=20150417
He runs an excellent blog of tips and tricks for Goblins, and experiments with various builds, almost always with Sparksmith. He's also active on Twitter:
https://mobile.twitter.com/LegacyGoblin
It sounds like he had been having a very rough stretch before this particular GPT. Unfortunately, after finally earning two byes, he went 3-4 in the GP on Saturday to finish 5-4.
OmniTell is huge in Japan right now, and Miracles will always be king. Elves and D&T are on the decline. Maindeck Earwig Squad seems amazing in this meta.
@ Sockosensei, what to do if i don't know jap?(
Apart from tarfire, what do you guys cut against Turboeldrazi/12post?
I'd definitely be bringing in the 4 Magus + the 2 stingscourger (in case of show and tell), and I like bringing in the extra tin street + ancient grudge for their pithing needles naming wasteland.
Chalice @ 1. They usually run 20+ 1cc spells.
Then use Google translate and have fun putting it all together...
Bye this how the other party to the NoShow the tournament seeking ○○ [Round2] Painter Salvager game1 (initiative) [vial, void of goblet, crowd chasing, woman guards, land, land, land] vial → thought → goblet → Mage → woman jailer for mercy, to continue with the crowd chasing → war length. Opponent trap of bridge the LED from two sets. This crushed the LED Handozero. But, because here was also barren in addition to the harbor, after three turns if Sasere pooled hand and tied the mana I was a Sundance to win in all the military assault, but rainy day Shun been raining salvage people from the top killing Game2 [vial, void of goblet, Chief, Pyrokinesis, land, land, land] opponent 3Kill move round the grindstone → servant. Expand it to center the chief was immediately removed by Pyrokinesis. Woman jailer, mastermind with overall Ola lead to millipede team from winning Game3 [vial, wear wear, Takutaku, Takutaku, mastermind, land, land] and war length from medicine bottle break the trap of bridge in wear carry on. And to salvage who removed a woman jailer → spark blacksmith of the sake of full. Little by little victory as it spread the ad difference in subsequent ringleader. ........................................................................ cause of victory: G2 wins without instant death thanks to Pyrokinesis. G3 is strong spark blacksmith wins. Tightly closed have or overall victory because it was attached to when Pyrokinesis want it or blessed with pat. × ○○ [Round3] Death and Tax game1 (initiative) [void of goblet, servants, servants, spark blacksmith, woman guards, land, land] vial start iron opponent from the plains. Guards (lightning building nurses) passes from the servants, thanks in the second also through with lightning building nurses safely landing attack of spark blacksmith. Indeed the two pairs aligned and yet the sword in the cup of the Void also without having to lose because it also stopped plow Game2 [vial, wear wear, Pyrokinesis, war length, Kurenko, land, land] but medicine bottle is stopped with a needle Men also vial play. And 3 opponent stone blacksmith in a turn (sword of fire and ice) → rune mother. The wear on the sword was removed this in Pyrokinesis. Opponent in stone blacksmith 2nd (Jute), put out the beatings skull have not seen from here. This is crushed in Takutaku that were in the hand, the Jute which have been further out break your opponent's medicine bottle and needle the Communities at the time in Takutaku second piece that was top. wins go to the point where as it is Kurenko starts. ........................................................................ cause of victory: G1 is typical only of first move game. G2 is overall victory because was on or not closed tightly when Takutaku want it or blessed with pat. ○○ [Round4] EsperBlade game1 (initiative) each other mulligan. [War commander, guards, land, land, land, land] thinking enclosure → woman jailer, sword to plow → follow the crowd, is move the thinking enclosure → war commander and early hand to sounds hollow. However, the other party is also like a hand equivocal, only few turns here harbor continues Mesmerize the Mishra of opponent. But it is also not last long, pinch came out stone blacksmith (strike the skull). Guards but bet on (tar fire) + Togemuchi Tsukai + Pyrokinesis + Minato narrow wins muscle to reduce the opponent's forces in, death confirmation tar fire is normally Will Game2 [vial, woman jailer, virtuoso, land, land, land, land] opponent mulligan. Since the medicine bottle and come with thinking enclosure → woman jailer has been needle refocus in barren + servants in the second turn. This servant is tie the mana at the port to come by pulling in chief and virtuoso. But here was Ayashika~tsu is Kumoyuki because draw from there was all land, opponent hand seems to have had just soul there Madoka唱and regret, and become completely hit just as it is this three-body Game3 [void of goblet, crowd The chase, war length, incineration person, land, land, land] as safely goblet of the Void, opponent stone blacksmith in turn three (Jute). War length smashing this Jute in Takutaku, continuing the chase crowd, opponent built a wall in the soul that is regret, and Engineered Plague from stone blacksmith (strike the skull). But here ringleader did not turned up only one Takutaku, opponent does not get beaten skull fear is Takutaku because was removed stone blacksmith in had incineration person to hand. But, the other party is not typing here also wear (1 mana) the influence of the cup of the Void due not me out a strike the skull, it is not Kowase the plague of the other party. Although standoff of state was followed by several turns with each other, finally here is take them from there caught a chief Kurenko to start winning ............................................................... ......... cause of victory: G2 is and the large number of special terrain of Esper was Tata~tsu, wins and virtuoso is awful,. G3 is the cup of the Void is me to the work of the expected wins. Was won because we generally twisted × ○○ [Round5] DeathBlade game1 (initiative) [void of goblet, jailer, mastermind, land, land, land, land,] death rituals → cup of the Void. Here opponent is not put out the mana from death ritual because it does not cut the fetch, waste to spend the second turn. Here jailer in the gap. Opponent dividing the cup of the Void in honor recovery in turn three, but here the second piece of the cup in return. Fourth turn of the opponent here is lightning building nurses at Jace. But opponents also strongly, strategy attack from the sky in the soul that regrets. Burn the Jace over two-turn at lightning building nurses from the mastermind to remove the death rituals in the second piece of the guards (jewelry). It was overwhelmingly advantageous because it sealed the 1 mana, opponent here Nemesis. Come to shaving at once together with the spirit token. However, search the chiefs and the last was suicide the lightning building nurses. Kurenko + chief of the mating technique wins flipping through a moment in Game2 mulligan. Knowledge opponent swirling death rituals are baked in tar fire. But, what was not found land in this BS, 2 land stop. I send out a war length. This would have been removed immediately, but the subsequent ringleader passes. Opponent here draw a third piece of land, play Nemesis. Here dispatch the lightning building nurses in return. Returns opponent in Jute! Also Nemesis resulting in beaten twice have this Jute, and destroyed in Takutaku with difficulty. Ten Hand 4 damage and it had become a subtle damage race at 2 life gain, the other party has to be struck Kensuki to war length that can lead to subsequent, hit to say whether and Now Setsu sharpener ahead the situation that is. Sometimes you have tied the mana at the port, and way down is. ........................................................................ defeat: G1 wins are awful, the cup of the Void. G2 wins because opponents of Nemesis was delayed one turn. Takutaku or one turn slow after is, Nemesis is ... was dangerous Tara one turn earlier after it was win because I have a whole twisted × ○○
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