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Thread: [Deck] Goblins

  1. #81
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by LostButSeeking View Post
    Well, I guess it's a matter of personal taste and metagame, but I wanted to quibble about this point specifically, because I won a game last week by turning my 2x Warren Wierding into three goblin tokens by saccing a MWM token to it. It was great. The look on his face when I told them the tokens had haste was just . . .

    There are other things that I think we disagree on as well. I love MWM, for example. If Matron is demonic tutor and ringleader is fact or fiction, MWM is moment's peace, except better because he can attack and you don't have to pay for the flash back. I also feel that, unless Dreadstill starts making a resurgence, stingscourger is a little weak. Not terrible, you understand, but a little weaker than killing something (anything, most of the time) dead. First turn lackey second turn stingscourger on their blocker made me sad inside, and I was glad to cut them for the weirdings.
    I do run MWM, the cards is just great. I wanted to say that WW somehow "forces" you to run them because you need a slightly higher Goblin count to kill Goyfs via Gempalm.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

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  2. #82
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Hey guys, first off I just wanted to say thanks to Gobolord for making a new primer. Good setup and explanations. Should be playing in a tourney this upcoming weekend, so I'll post my list once I'm 100% on it.

    My core is set, and I'm happy with my removal package (currently 3 WW, 3 Gempalm, 1 SS), but now I'm down to my last 4 spots and I'm playing musical chairs deciding who goes in. I'm running with 2 MWM, a sharpshooter and prospector at the moment, but I'm not positive about it. People have posted that it makes a turn-3 kill possible, but in no way LIKELY. I'd really just like someone to explain the argument for sharpshooter-prospector, other than pointing out that it CAN kill turn-3. Sharpshooter looks like it sits in the sideboard, for obvious reasons, but my point about Prospector is this: For turn-3 kill, you need to have god-hand, if prospector isn't there, it's officially dead in the deck. And I know saccing tokens for mana is cool, and so is untapping sharpshooter, but I'm not gonna be Matroning for a prospector late-game.

    My only other question falls on the 4th Rishadan Port; necessary or not? Got the 4 wastelands, 22 lands total.
    Quote Originally Posted by FakeSpam
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  3. #83
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by pater View Post
    Hey guys, first off I just wanted to say thanks to Gobolord for making a new primer. Good setup and explanations. Should be playing in a tourney this upcoming weekend, so I'll post my list once I'm 100% on it.

    My core is set, and I'm happy with my removal package (currently 3 WW, 3 Gempalm, 1 SS), but now I'm down to my last 4 spots and I'm playing musical chairs deciding who goes in. I'm running with 2 MWM, a sharpshooter and prospector at the moment, but I'm not positive about it. People have posted that it makes a turn-3 kill possible, but in no way LIKELY. I'd really just like someone to explain the argument for sharpshooter-prospector, other than pointing out that it CAN kill turn-3. Sharpshooter looks like it sits in the sideboard, for obvious reasons, but my point about Prospector is this: For turn-3 kill, you need to have god-hand, if prospector isn't there, it's officially dead in the deck. And I know saccing tokens for mana is cool, and so is untapping sharpshooter, but I'm not gonna be Matroning for a prospector late-game.

    My only other question falls on the 4th Rishadan Port; necessary or not? Got the 4 wastelands, 22 lands total.
    That's what the primer says:
    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord
    Skirk Prospector is typically found alongside with Sharpshooter. However Sharphooter is not the only reason to run him a 1-of. The most important thing about Prospector is, that he does many things: fight Jitte, ramp cards like Matron, SGC and Ringleader, defuse Bridge from Below and provide instant-mana for Rishadan Port and Lightning Bolt. In the old thread we had an extended discussion about Skirk Prospector, approximately starting at page 282.
    I agree with you that Sharpshooter is SB-material. You can just replace Shooter by the 3rd MWM.
    If your list is RB you can try Volrath's Stronghold instead of the 4th Port (eternal Gempalm anyone?). Otherwise I'd highly recommend as many Ports as possible
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

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  4. #84
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins 2.0

    If you guys are so concerned about MUD, just add some Shattering Spree (in addition to KGrips) in sideboard, and you should be really fine. Also, it's REALLY important to kill their Metalworker as fast as possible.

  5. #85
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandalize View Post
    If you guys are so concerned about MUD, just add some Shattering Spree (in addition to KGrips) in sideboard, and you should be really fine. Also, it's REALLY important to kill their Metalworker as fast as possible.
    What I'm really worried about is Wurmcoil Engine. Without access to StP or Moat this guy is the baddest beatstick in Legacy. At 6 mana he's actually castable without a deck built around mana acceleration (though it helps), he recurs with Welder, he has lifelink, he becomes more problematic once he dies. This card is just amazing. He's basically an automatic 3-for-1. It will take 1 card to kill the Wurmcoil card then 2 cards to kill the Wurmcoil tokens. And he's an easy T2 play, hardcast. White decks can just remove him, but don't have that luxury.

  6. #86
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Would a well-timed Stingscourger help with that problem? Possibly try to swing for the win the following turn?
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
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  7. #87
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    What I'm really worried about is Wurmcoil Engine. Without access to StP or Moat this guy is the baddest beatstick in Legacy. At 6 mana he's actually castable without a deck built around mana acceleration (though it helps), he recurs with Welder, he has lifelink, he becomes more problematic once he dies. This card is just amazing. He's basically an automatic 3-for-1. It will take 1 card to kill the Wurmcoil card then 2 cards to kill the Wurmcoil tokens. And he's an easy T2 play, hardcast. White decks can just remove him, but don't have that luxury.
    That's why you can't let them use their mana acceleration. Killing Metalworker, Goblin Welder, along with heavy mana denial (Port is really good against them) is a must need. Once they put some fattie (Wurmcoil or Forgemaster), you're really about to lose... Pyrokinesis is our best out against them, because it's also in range of Phyrexian Revoker (which is a really common T1 play postboard).

    They usually go for T1 Revoker and T2 Lodestone Golem, postboard. I love my foe's face when I Pyrokinesis them both. I thought about Shattering Spree as an SB option because it can kill their most problematic cards, like Voltaic Key and Grim Monolith (and Metalworker, Revoker, Moxen, Forgemaster, etc...). But it'd cost a turn, since SSpree is really mana heavy.

  8. #88
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Yes, if your meta have some MUD and affinity popping up here and there, I think Shattering Spree is the way to go.
    That with Stingscourger may be our best shot.
    Maybe Null Rod to...
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  9. #89
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Again I'm not willing to pay mana for my hate-cards. Therefore I think Pulverize is the better call here (big PLUS: it doesnt target, which is importnat when they have Lightning Greaves.
    If there are many Affinity and MUD decks running around, I'd even splash W for StoP in MD and Serenity in SB.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  10. #90
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Does anyone have any savage tricks with Rishadan Port? The only thing I got is tapping their land during their upkeep to keep them from casting, and sometimes EoT to block removal. I think I'm missing the card's potential.
    Quote Originally Posted by FakeSpam
    EDIT: 2 mods post in this thread. Where's Matt P when you need him.

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    right here buddy...

  11. #91
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by pater View Post
    Does anyone have any savage tricks with Rishadan Port? The only thing I got is tapping their land during their upkeep to keep them from casting, and sometimes EoT to block removal. I think I'm missing the card's potential.
    Again: there's a passage in the primer about Port that might be helpful.
    In general it serves the function of additional manadenial (along with Wasteland), especially if you want to keep you opp away from double W (Humility/Moat) or the 3rd mana in general (Firesput/E-Plague).
    Port also nullifies your opp's manlands.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  12. #92
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by pater View Post
    Does anyone have any savage tricks with Rishadan Port? The only thing I got is tapping their land during their upkeep to keep them from casting, and sometimes EoT to block removal. I think I'm missing the card's potential.
    When Porting an opponent that has a Sensei's Divining Top in play, tap down their land at the end of their draw step. That way they can't just use the land to spin the Top.

    Tap manland blockers to get Lackey through. This wins games.

    Tap fetchlands in their end-step (if you have nothing better to do) just to force them to make a decision over which land they're getting (dual or basic).

    That's about all I got.

  13. #93
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    Tap fetchlands in their end-step (if you have nothing better to do) just to force them to make a decision over which land they're getting (dual or basic).
    Although very subtle, this is a pretty decent line of play, especially against blue players as it can potentially take away Top/Brainstorm lines of play.

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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins 2.0

    If your worried about MUD/Affinity with it's recent changes. . .or maybe thats just how SCG Opens are. . . Look into Meltdown, or Null Rod.

    Me and a friend ran near identical lists at SCG Open Indy, and he got lots of mileage out of Meltdown. Sadly I did not, but I didnt face affinity all day.

    Null Rod is my new favorite.

    Affinity Sideboard is
    -4 Aether Vial
    +3 Null Rod
    +1 Pyrokinesis

    Mull into two land, Null Rod if you're that worried. . .they literally cannot do ANYTHING. . cant tap their artifact lands for mana etc.

  15. #95
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by pater View Post
    Does anyone have any savage tricks with Rishadan Port? The only thing I got is tapping their land during their upkeep to keep them from casting, and sometimes EoT to block removal. I think I'm missing the card's potential.
    There's a nice trick when the opponent has a Top into play too.
    Usually they want to pay one to see the top cards in their upkeep. And you want to tap a land. So what happens?
    They ask you: "are you going to tap anything?"
    What do you do?
    Say: "no"
    Then, you both move automatically to the Draw Phase, and he does not get the chance againt to use Top before the draw.

    If he choses to use Top at his upkeep, you can, in response, tap another land.

    Well, I think you got the picture...

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  16. #96
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by ScatmanX View Post
    There's a nice trick when the opponent has a Top into play too.
    Usually they want to pay one to see the top cards in their upkeep. And you want to tap a land. So what happens?
    They ask you: "are you going to tap anything?"
    What do you do?
    Say: "no"
    Then, you both move automatically to the Draw Phase, and he does not get the chance againt to use Top before the draw.

    If he choses to use Top at his upkeep, you can, in response, tap another land.

    Well, I think you got the picture...

    EDIT: I guess it took me long enough to write this...
    Actually I really like your point. If your opponent asks you, "Are you tapping anything?" they've just passed priority. If you say "No" and they then spin their top before drawing, they've just picked up a game-loss for drawing cards they shouldn't have. It's probably not a move you'd like to make at your weekly card-shop tourny, but in a big event you might catch an inexperienced player doing this. More often though, it's just a good way to catch someone that's trying to bait you into wasting a Port activation.

  17. #97
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Neuad View Post
    If your worried about MUD/Affinity with it's recent changes. . .or maybe thats just how SCG Opens are. . . Look into Meltdown, or Null Rod.

    Me and a friend ran near identical lists at SCG Open Indy, and he got lots of mileage out of Meltdown. Sadly I did not, but I didnt face affinity all day.
    Why choose Meltdown over Shatterstorm? I always wonder about that (im not saying I am right). If you want to get rid of Frogmite you alone need 5 mana and that's not even considering Myr Enforcer. Or do you intend to play it in your turns 1-3 and basically get just rid of their manabase and some other small stuff?
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  18. #98
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Hey guys!

    I've been out of these Goblin threads for a while and have been wondering about some artifact hate with the upcomming Affinity/MUD-decks.

    While reading this I figured there are a few card choices which will have a possibility making SB-slots. To clarify the discussion a bit I'll list the options so people can point out the pros and cons per card.

    1. Pulverize
    Pros:
    - Cast on turn2 at the earliest.
    - Doesn't cost any mana
    - Doesn't target
    - Sweeps the entire board
    - Not vulnerable to removal, only to counter
    Cons:
    - Requires 2 mountains
    - Sets you back 2 mountains, which may cause manascrew
    - Sorcery speed
    - It sweeps just once
    - If countered, you get 3 for 1'd (or 3 for 2'd via FoW)

    2. Shatterstorm
    Pros:
    - Doesn't target
    - Sweeps the entire board
    - Not vulnerable to removal, only to counter
    Cons:
    - Cast on turn4 at the earliest.
    - Takes up 4 mana
    - Sorcery speed
    - It sweeps just once

    3. Meltdown
    Pros:
    - Doesn't target
    - Sweeps artifact-lands + Ornithopters & Memnites + Moxen for 1 red mana
    - When cast for R it doesn't affect your AEther Vial
    - Not vulnerable to removal, only to counter
    Cons:
    - Takes up a lot of mana to sweep the entire board
    - Sorcery speed
    - It sweeps just once

    4. Null Rod
    Pros:
    - Doesn't target
    - Nullifies all activated abbilities of artifacts (and artifact land. Thanks Neuad ;))
    - Doesn't require red mana
    - Has a lasting effect
    - Works against ANT as well
    Cons:
    - Is vulnerable to removal
    - Sorcery speed
    - It only deals with activated abbilities, not with other problems

    I think Pulverize and Null Rod are the best answers we can have against Affinity and MUD.
    Let's discuss!

    EDIT:
    The primer is great btw! Thanks Gobolord & friends for the effort.
    At the end of the former Goblin thread a guy (thought it was Nameless Two) posted a lot of possible 'Turn3 Kills' of the deck. I've heard many Goblin-players aren't familar with those possible turn3 kills and will underestimate them (especially thoe without Goblin Lackey).
    Maybe you could put them in the primer with a spoiler tag on it (for saving space)?

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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Keep in mind Null Rod shuts down all artifact lands too. . .so if you go land lackey go, they go artifact land 0/2 0/2 1/1 Springleaf Opal go. . .then you go Null Rod go....all their mana is shut off. . .

  20. #100
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord View Post
    Goblin Lackey
    Mountain, Lackey, Go – the best T1-play our deck has. His threatening, triggered ability enables fast and aggressive starts, even turn-3-kills.
    @ Tom T: I don't know how that Tag-thing works but I did mention the turn-3-kills - just try the link ;-)
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