MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
Hey guys, first off I just wanted to say thanks to Gobolord for making a new primer. Good setup and explanations. Should be playing in a tourney this upcoming weekend, so I'll post my list once I'm 100% on it.
My core is set, and I'm happy with my removal package (currently 3 WW, 3 Gempalm, 1 SS), but now I'm down to my last 4 spots and I'm playing musical chairs deciding who goes in. I'm running with 2 MWM, a sharpshooter and prospector at the moment, but I'm not positive about it. People have posted that it makes a turn-3 kill possible, but in no way LIKELY. I'd really just like someone to explain the argument for sharpshooter-prospector, other than pointing out that it CAN kill turn-3. Sharpshooter looks like it sits in the sideboard, for obvious reasons, but my point about Prospector is this: For turn-3 kill, you need to have god-hand, if prospector isn't there, it's officially dead in the deck. And I know saccing tokens for mana is cool, and so is untapping sharpshooter, but I'm not gonna be Matroning for a prospector late-game.
My only other question falls on the 4th Rishadan Port; necessary or not? Got the 4 wastelands, 22 lands total.
Originally Posted by FakeSpam
That's what the primer says:
I agree with you that Sharpshooter is SB-material. You can just replace Shooter by the 3rd MWM.Originally Posted by GoboLord
If your list is RB you can try Volrath's Stronghold instead of the 4th Port (eternal Gempalm anyone?). Otherwise I'd highly recommend as many Ports as possible
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
If you guys are so concerned about MUD, just add some Shattering Spree (in addition to KGrips) in sideboard, and you should be really fine. Also, it's REALLY important to kill their Metalworker as fast as possible.
What I'm really worried about is Wurmcoil Engine. Without access to StP or Moat this guy is the baddest beatstick in Legacy. At 6 mana he's actually castable without a deck built around mana acceleration (though it helps), he recurs with Welder, he has lifelink, he becomes more problematic once he dies. This card is just amazing. He's basically an automatic 3-for-1. It will take 1 card to kill the Wurmcoil card then 2 cards to kill the Wurmcoil tokens. And he's an easy T2 play, hardcast. White decks can just remove him, but don't have that luxury.
That's why you can't let them use their mana acceleration. Killing Metalworker, Goblin Welder, along with heavy mana denial (Port is really good against them) is a must need. Once they put some fattie (Wurmcoil or Forgemaster), you're really about to lose... Pyrokinesis is our best out against them, because it's also in range of Phyrexian Revoker (which is a really common T1 play postboard).
They usually go for T1 Revoker and T2 Lodestone Golem, postboard. I love my foe's face when I Pyrokinesis them both. I thought about Shattering Spree as an SB option because it can kill their most problematic cards, like Voltaic Key and Grim Monolith (and Metalworker, Revoker, Moxen, Forgemaster, etc...). But it'd cost a turn, since SSpree is really mana heavy.
Yes, if your meta have some MUD and affinity popping up here and there, I think Shattering Spree is the way to go.
That with Stingscourger may be our best shot.
Maybe Null Rod to...
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Again I'm not willing to pay mana for my hate-cards. Therefore I think Pulverize is the better call here (big PLUS: it doesnt target, which is importnat when they have Lightning Greaves.
If there are many Affinity and MUD decks running around, I'd even splash W for StoP in MD and Serenity in SB.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
Does anyone have any savage tricks with Rishadan Port? The only thing I got is tapping their land during their upkeep to keep them from casting, and sometimes EoT to block removal. I think I'm missing the card's potential.
Originally Posted by FakeSpam
Again: there's a passage in the primer about Port that might be helpful.
In general it serves the function of additional manadenial (along with Wasteland), especially if you want to keep you opp away from double W (Humility/Moat) or the 3rd mana in general (Firesput/E-Plague).
Port also nullifies your opp's manlands.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
When Porting an opponent that has a Sensei's Divining Top in play, tap down their land at the end of their draw step. That way they can't just use the land to spin the Top.
Tap manland blockers to get Lackey through. This wins games.
Tap fetchlands in their end-step (if you have nothing better to do) just to force them to make a decision over which land they're getting (dual or basic).
That's about all I got.
If your worried about MUD/Affinity with it's recent changes. . .or maybe thats just how SCG Opens are. . . Look into Meltdown, or Null Rod.
Me and a friend ran near identical lists at SCG Open Indy, and he got lots of mileage out of Meltdown. Sadly I did not, but I didnt face affinity all day.
Null Rod is my new favorite.
Affinity Sideboard is
-4 Aether Vial
+3 Null Rod
+1 Pyrokinesis
Mull into two land, Null Rod if you're that worried. . .they literally cannot do ANYTHING. . cant tap their artifact lands for mana etc.
There's a nice trick when the opponent has a Top into play too.
Usually they want to pay one to see the top cards in their upkeep. And you want to tap a land. So what happens?
They ask you: "are you going to tap anything?"
What do you do?
Say: "no"
Then, you both move automatically to the Draw Phase, and he does not get the chance againt to use Top before the draw.
If he choses to use Top at his upkeep, you can, in response, tap another land.
Well, I think you got the picture...
EDIT: I guess it took me long enough to write this...
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Actually I really like your point. If your opponent asks you, "Are you tapping anything?" they've just passed priority. If you say "No" and they then spin their top before drawing, they've just picked up a game-loss for drawing cards they shouldn't have. It's probably not a move you'd like to make at your weekly card-shop tourny, but in a big event you might catch an inexperienced player doing this. More often though, it's just a good way to catch someone that's trying to bait you into wasting a Port activation.
Why choose Meltdown over Shatterstorm? I always wonder about that (im not saying I am right). If you want to get rid of Frogmite you alone need 5 mana and that's not even considering Myr Enforcer. Or do you intend to play it in your turns 1-3 and basically get just rid of their manabase and some other small stuff?
Quit playing Legacy but could still play Goblins (Rgw, Rg, Rw, Rb)
ジェームス・ブラウン
I'm staring in the mirror looking at my biggest rival.
Hey guys!
I've been out of these Goblin threads for a while and have been wondering about some artifact hate with the upcomming Affinity/MUD-decks.
While reading this I figured there are a few card choices which will have a possibility making SB-slots. To clarify the discussion a bit I'll list the options so people can point out the pros and cons per card.
1. Pulverize
Pros:
- Cast on turn2 at the earliest.
- Doesn't cost any mana
- Doesn't target
- Sweeps the entire board
- Not vulnerable to removal, only to counter
Cons:
- Requires 2 mountains
- Sets you back 2 mountains, which may cause manascrew
- Sorcery speed
- It sweeps just once
- If countered, you get 3 for 1'd (or 3 for 2'd via FoW)
2. Shatterstorm
Pros:
- Doesn't target
- Sweeps the entire board
- Not vulnerable to removal, only to counter
Cons:
- Cast on turn4 at the earliest.
- Takes up 4 mana
- Sorcery speed
- It sweeps just once
3. Meltdown
Pros:
- Doesn't target
- Sweeps artifact-lands + Ornithopters & Memnites + Moxen for 1 red mana
- When cast for R it doesn't affect your AEther Vial
- Not vulnerable to removal, only to counter
Cons:
- Takes up a lot of mana to sweep the entire board
- Sorcery speed
- It sweeps just once
4. Null Rod
Pros:
- Doesn't target
- Nullifies all activated abbilities of artifacts (and artifact land. Thanks Neuad ;))
- Doesn't require red mana
- Has a lasting effect
- Works against ANT as well
Cons:
- Is vulnerable to removal
- Sorcery speed
- It only deals with activated abbilities, not with other problems
I think Pulverize and Null Rod are the best answers we can have against Affinity and MUD.
Let's discuss!
EDIT:
The primer is great btw! Thanks Gobolord & friends for the effort.
At the end of the former Goblin thread a guy (thought it was Nameless Two) posted a lot of possible 'Turn3 Kills' of the deck. I've heard many Goblin-players aren't familar with those possible turn3 kills and will underestimate them (especially thoe without Goblin Lackey).
Maybe you could put them in the primer with a spoiler tag on it (for saving space)?
Keep in mind Null Rod shuts down all artifact lands too. . .so if you go land lackey go, they go artifact land 0/2 0/2 1/1 Springleaf Opal go. . .then you go Null Rod go....all their mana is shut off. . .
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
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