[Deck] Goblins

[Olaf Forkbeard]

Goblin Grenade

I realise the reason some of you play with Tarfire is because Ringleader can fetch it, but I'd like to know why Grenade is generally shunned?
I mean, it kills a Goyf and just about most perms we care about, and 5 damage to the face is pretty handy, all for 1cmc.

Anyone?

I'll restate that since it is not a Goblin it needs to be considered very shrewdly to start with. Bottoming it with Ringleader and leaving it behind in a Matron Tutor are against what the deck wants.

Past that it goes against the decks general game plan of out-grind your opponent. Losing a dude to ye olde' suicide slam sounds like something the Modern deck wants to do. That and it's really hard to play tribals alongside it simply because goyf would more likely be a 5/6. This deck really just wants to end up with more goblins in play than they can handle. I think I'd rather splash white for Swords to Plowshares if I want main board ways to kill a goyf that do not have synergy; I'm even more likely I'll just run Warren Weirding. Remember, we are not an aggro deck. Playing the deck like that tends to lead to getting blown out, and that's one of the reasons the decks general misunderstanding exists in the first place.

[jrw1985]

I'm thinking more and more that I need to splash W and main some Swords to Plowshares. It's a tempo play. Why run MWM to chump when you can just run StP to remove the attacker a turn earlier? The only question is What is minimum goblin count to keep the deck competitive?

[Stevestamopz]

I'm thinking more and more that I need to splash W and main some Swords to Plowshares. It's a tempo play. Why run MWM to chump when you can just run StP to remove the attacker a turn earlier? The only question is What is minimum goblin count to keep the deck competitive?

Well we're not competitive right now so.... how long's a piece of string

I guess 30 Goblins is like the bare minimum you could get away with.

[slave]

Well we're not competitive right now so.... how long's a piece of string :cry.

Exactly, that's why I've been trying out a whole swag of old/unloved cards like grenade.
Terminus is just so ugly for us....
StP looks like an excellent addition if you're splashing white, especially as it gives the deck decent side answers too.

I'm kinda surprised Goblins doesn't get more love with new printings. Some more tribal instants/sorceries/enchantments would be killer. Given that Zombies etc. are getting multi-coloured additions with every new set, I'm waiting for them to print some good R/X gobz that are actually worth playing maindeck, not just an answer card for the sideboard.

[Chatto]

Why no deck built around a killer-combo? I find it hard to grind some games out, either because my opponent is too fast or because my opponent is better at grinding.

[Stevestamopz]

Exactly, that's why I've been trying out a whole swag of old/unloved cards like grenade.
Terminus is just so ugly for us....
StP looks like an excellent addition if you're splashing white, especially as it gives the deck decent side answers too.

I'm kinda surprised Goblins doesn't get more love with new printings. Some more tribal instants/sorceries/enchantments would be killer. Given that Zombies etc. are getting multi-coloured additions with every new set, I'm waiting for them to print some good R/X gobz that are actually worth playing maindeck, not just an answer card for the sideboard.

Terminus is not the problem, the problem is Mentor. They do however work tremendously well with each other. We overcommit to try and push past that stupid card? They terminus us and we die. We don't commit enough to the board? Mentor takes over the board much faster than even Krenko's wet dreams can.

Outside of times when I flooded completely out, drew Ringleader and it completely whiffed, I can't remember losing to Miracles more than 1 or 2 times out of 15 games played before Mentor arrived.

With Mentor and the prevalence of Moat in the format, at last count I was struggling to win even 5/10 against Miracles, which is why I have officially retired the deck. I will finish foiling it out (Caverns, MM Ports and 4 ONS fetches to go) but I cannot see anyway for Goblins to ever be remotely playable again. I am a casual player, I play for fun more than anything but as a result I cannot take throwing my boys under the bus so violently anymore. I have never loved a deck/hobby/game more than I have loved playing Goblins but I just cannot go on.

As for why WOTC have ditched us? I couldn't tell you if I tried.

[jrw1985]

I was conceptualizing a Rw build and actually came up with something incredibly similar to this old list... 3 Thalia for combo, 3 Krenko for midrange, this deck runs Sudden Shock but I was thinking Swords as my sure-thing spot removal. I was also considering Chieftain over SGC for a lower curve. The only thing I really don't like is the mana base.



Ovino X - Legacy Main Event

Format: Legacy | Number of Players: 335 | Date: 03/10/2015

Send Video
Daniele Terra playing Goblins
Deck Name: Thalied Goblins
Creatures [26]

1 Goblin Chieftain
1 Stingscourger
2 Siege-Gang Commander
3 Krenko, Mob Boss
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
Instants [6]

2 Sudden Shock
4 Tarfire
Artifacts [4]

4 Aether Vial
Lands [24]

2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Karakas
2 Mountain
2 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Plateau
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
60 Cards
1 Karakas
1 Stingscourger
4 Rest in Peace
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Containment Priest
2 Mangara of Corondor
2 Tuktuk Scrapper

[jrw1985]

For reference, here's the list I'd like to try out next...

1 Stingscourger
3 Krenko, Mob Boss
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Goblin Chieftain or Chieftain/Piledriver split

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
Instants [6]

3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Tarfire
Artifacts [4]

4 Aether Vial
Lands [24]

2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Mountain
2 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Plateau
4 Wasteland
4 Arid Mesa

I believe we really need some answer to combo right now since the format is wide open for that archetype. I also think Swords will be an excellent inclusion because it's a surefire removal spell and we need those for board position. There are also too many sweepers in the format that let our opponents beat parity with big-ass creatures, and the only way to bring it back to parity is to have an answer to the big-ass creatures. Hence Swords.

[slave]

Yeah Mentor sucks.

I was conceptualizing a Rw build....

I've been working on a similar concept, only with Stoneforge Mystic, 4 STP's with a couple equips like Jitte etc.

[Stevestamopz]

Yeah Mentor sucks.

I've been working on a similar concept, only with Stoneforge Mystic, 4 STP's with a couple equips like Jitte etc.

At this stage, are you really even playing Goblins? I can recommend this deck if you want to play in between Goblins and DNT: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=13196&d=277308&f=LE

[Chatto]

Steve! What the hell?! But yeah, you probably right. Goblins is in a really rough spot at the moment, no need to deny it. If your meta is all fair, you could go for it. Otherwise, too much tinkering won't do the Goblin-synergy any good. Better hope for new and useable Goblins in the near future.

[jrw1985]

Steve! What the hell?! But yeah, you probably right. Goblins is in a really rough spot at the moment, no need to deny it. If your meta is all fair, you could go for it. Otherwise, too much tinkering won't do the Goblin-synergy any good. Better hope for new and useable Goblins in the near future.

Always hoping for a new printing! The deck has been in that spot for a long while, waiting, waiting. But they haven't printed a goblin that trumps Goyf yet. And they never came out with a shatter goblin that was at all decent. Not to mention the total lack of combo-hating goblins. Enchantments will always be a weak spot too, given the flavor of Red decks.

And those are just our difficulties being pro-active! We still have manabase issues with our reliance on so many non basics plus Wastes combined with our high curve. And we can draw egregiously slow opening hands that force mulligans. The rest of the format plays 18 lands and can keep most one land hands. We can have hands with three lands that we need to mull because the other cards are all three and four drops and the hand is too slow to be competitive.

[GoboLord]

0. Update notes

August 16th 2016
* updated chapter IV. Matchups and Strategy, adding Carpet of Flowers as relevant SB card in Tempo matchups
* updated chapter V. Outside the Box, refreshing the list of already tested cards and To-be-tested cards

August 15th 2016
* updated the tournament report section
* added Jim Davis' podcast to "Literature"

[slave]

At this stage, are you really even playing Goblins?

It's a valid question.
FWIW, I haven't played Goblins at a serious Legacy night for maybe a year now I think about it, and I can't remember having a good night out with it for a lot longer than that.

I'm working on a R/u variant too, might take it along this week if testing goes okay. So far it's not looking too shabby

[jrw1985]

DnT just got a Matron. That's bad. Good news though is that they only have 4 ways to cheat it in, and it doesn't have too many synergies with the deck (on a non-tutor level). But now they'll have 8 SFM, or three cards for the price of one. Woof. And it lets them run Mangara again without it being pure terrible. Plus it opens the maindeck for more silver bullets. And it makes SnT much less scary. Wow. Great card for W decks.

[GoboLord]

It's a pretty long way to go from White Matron to SFM to Equipment.
The ccreatures I dislike the most are Brimaz, Serra Avenger and Flockerwhisp, only one of which works with W-atron.
I dont see our DnT MU bring affected all that much (if at all) by that New creature. That is if the decks presence the current Set of creatures more or less. There might be some insanely powerful Tutor target against us that I'm overlooking right now.

[NeckBird]

it's a pretty long way to go from white matron to sfm to equipment.
The ccreatures i dislike the most are brimaz, serra avenger and flockerwhisp, only one of which works with w-atron.
I dont see our dnt mu bring affected all that much (if at all) by that new creature. That is if the decks presence the current set of creatures more or less. There might be some insanely powerful tutor target against us that i'm overlooking right now.

tivadar


of


thorn

[jrw1985]

tivadar


of


thorn

LOL. If ONLY we mattered that much!

[slave]

DnT just got a Matron. That's bad.

Bad would be a tribal relevant card, like Matron, but they got a non-tribal-specific recruiter with very little downside. Bugger me.

[jrw1985]

Creatures [29]
2 Stingscourger
2 Krenko, Mob Boss
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Goblin Chieftain
2 Goblin Piledriver

1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Goblin Warchief

Instants [5]
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Tarfire

Artifacts [4]
4 Aether Vial

Lands [24]
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Mountain
4 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Plateau
4 Wasteland
4 Arid Mesa

sideboard
3 Blood Moon
3 Rest in Peace
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Ethersworn cannonist
1 Pyrokinesis
3 Wear // Tear

I played 3 games against ANT and went 2-1. I actually won the first game pre-board off of attacking him to 5 or so, then Swordsing my own Piledriver post-combat to bring my life total to 25. He couldn't Storm that high, and I drew a Thalia the next turn to seal the deal. Post-board I was open to Massacre which beat me pretty handily. I think he got a 3 or 4-for-1 off of Massacre, including a Thalia, and i couldn't come back from that. He also went off through a RiP that game. RiP is OK against ANT, but you still need a clock. The third game was pretty brutal. I Played Chalice @ 0 and Lackey T1, Thalia T2, RiP T3. RiP + Thalia make Cabal Ritual pretty useless, since Thalia makes it cost 3 and RiP makes it add only BBB, so they net 0 mana playing it.

I also played 7 games against DnT, going 5-2. We only played 1 preboard game and I won that in a narrow game where I was beaten down to 3 but still managed to swing back the next turn for 22 points of damage for the W. A couple of the games I won were blow-outs where I was able to clear his board and clean up with Lackey. Post board games I brought in 3 Wear // Tear and a Pyro which were very effective. Without equipment DnT just doesn't keep up with us. I will say the new Thalia is a pain in the ass since she takes away our haste, but she is as Tarfireable as any other.

The manabase was surprisingly strong against DnT, which I was pleasantly surprised by. There was only one game where I got hosed on mana, and it wasn't because I had no lands, it was because i didn't have a proper R source. That prevented me from casting an early Tarfire which was clutch for the DnT player. So only 1 game in 10 had mana issues. The build also mulled very well. I only mulled 3 times in 10 games and never had to go past 6.

Swords was great, thalia was great, I'd run this again.