[Deck] Goblins

[Ace/Homebrew]

I would imagine Phyrexian Revoker to be 'more' main-deck-able than Needle since it attacks for 2 and can be Vialed into play. Downsides are, of course, that it dies to all the hate that kills your dudes + artifact removal. And I guess that you can't name a fetch-land if there aren't things to name...

Edit - Another downside is that it costs instead of , with the upside that you have 2 ways to make it uncounterable.

[GoboLord]

I recently made a spreadsheet plotting sideboard cards against the metagame decks I run into. It was enlightening! I found that Thalia, Pyrokinesis and Goblin Sharpshooter were playable in about 66% of our matchups. They had the highest playability percentage, as it were. No surprise then that those are all maindeck-able cards. I was surprised by one card though: Pithing Needle. It was playable in about 60% of matchups. I think Pithing Needle could be considered as a maindeck card. Worst case scenario you just name a fetch land with it.

Anyone ever played maindeck Needle?

I didn't.
Mind to share a list of relevant MUs + cards that you have in mind as targets for Needle?

[jrw1985]

These are some of the decks that I run into often where Needle has targets.

Miracles - Top
Grixis Delver - DRS
DnT - Equipment, Mom, SFM
SnT - Sneak Attack, Grizz
Lands - Stage, Maze
Aggro Loam - DRS, KotR
Shardless BUG - DRS, Lilly, Jace
Infect - Inkmoth, Pendelhaven
Reanimator - Grizz
Painter - Grindstone, Welder, Top
Elves - DRS, Symbiote, Quirion Ranger
Big Red - Sneak Attack, Grizz

MUs where Needle is bad...
Eldrazi
Burn
ANT
Dredge (unless... Phantasmagorian?)

It has targets a-plenty and can disrupt our opponents for very little resources on our end.

[Sandro95]

These are some of the decks that I run into often where Needle has targets.

Miracles - Top
Grixis Delver - DRS
DnT - Equipment, Mom, SFM
SnT - Sneak Attack, Grizz
Lands - Stage, Maze
Aggro Loam - DRS, KotR
Shardless BUG - DRS, Lilly, Jace
Infect - Inkmoth, Pendelhaven
Reanimator - Grizz
Painter - Grindstone, Welder, Top
Elves - DRS, Symbiote, Quirion Ranger
Big Red - Sneak Attack, Grizz

MUs where Needle is bad...
Eldrazi
Burn
ANT
Dredge (unless... Phantasmagorian?)

It has targets a-plenty and can disrupt our opponents for very little resources on our end.

I don't think it having targets is enough to make Needle good in a matchup. While I do like the card, I would not bring it in against Grixis Delver, Aggro Loam, or Shardless BUG most of the time, and I only bring it in vs Reanimator because we have so many bad cards vs them, and because I have Warren Weirding and Karakas (Stingscourger works too) to deal with Griselbrand.

Needle is great, but I think it's best left in the sideboard. With that said, I do love seeing people exploring new options!

[Olaf Forkbeard]

I could see running one in the main, without much worry. Past that the numbers start to add up on Ringleader math.

[GoboLord]

+1 @Sandro (the concept of MD/SB is not so strict imo and very much depends on the metagame you are expecting. Needle is defintely and all-time-favorite for our decks, but whether it's MD or SB is a metacall really)
+1 @Olaf (I was thinking of 2 copies max though)

I want to add that it's a pretty strong assett against Wasteland and will thus 'produce mana' in a way in MUs where that is relevant (e.g. D&T, RUG/BUG/bUrg Delver).

[Ralf]

These are some of the decks that I run into often where Needle has targets.

MUs where Needle is bad...

Dredge (unless... Phantasmagorian?)

- Phantasmagorian (manaless)
- Cephalid Coliseum

And to a lesser extend:

- Street Wraith (manaless)
- Putrid Imp

[silvinlight]

Legacy qualifier event running Moon Goblins. The deck was sub-par because I didn't get all the cards I needed for it in by day of, so I went with a token strategy and hoped for the best.

4x Wasteland
2x Pendelhaven
3x Cavern of Souls
12x Mountain
3x Blood Moon
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Ringleader
4x Mogg War Marshal
4x Aether Vial
4x Goblin Piledriver
3x Goblin Bushwhacker
3x Skirk Prospector
3x Goblin Chieftain
1x Goblin Warchief
1x Krenko, Mob Boss
1x Siege-Gang Commander

Sideboard:
2x Pyrokenesis
1x Krosan Grip
3x Red Elemental Blast
3x Thorn of Amethyst
3x Relic of Progenitus
1x Goblin Warchief
1x Goblin Bushwhacker
1x Skirk Prospector

Barely made top 8. The missing Gempalm Incinerators really made life difficult, especially against Death and Taxes, a match that should have been easy. I think I got lucky a lot. But it does show the deck is really good even run sub optimal.

Some notes, Blood Moon is great main board. It autowins quite a few game ones I had no business winning with the deck the way it was. I was using it as a replacement for land control because I didn't have the wasteland till day of.

Pendelhaven is alright, but there were times I would rather have just had a red source. I never had to side in Krosan Grip for anything. As a one of it wouldn't have been consistent enough to help anyway.

Anyway, ended up going up against Delver first round, quarter finals. Hate Delver with a passion. Half the reason I run this is to destroy Delver decks. It made the day with it to watch that deck get stomped on.

Lost to Eldrazi next round. Kind of expected it. Without Gempalm Incinerator that match is so bad. Thought knot seer took my hand apart. Mimic and reality smasher beat in for the win. Eldrazi are like big goblins, wins through great synergy.

Sent from my HTC One E9PLUS dual sim using Tapatalk

[Olaf Forkbeard]

Just to keep the thread moving, some random things I've had on my mind.

I'm just going to run Surgical Extraction for Reanimator as it has enough text in other matches. My win-rate went up quite a bit when I added 2 to my board. It has far more impact than Grafdigger's, and that's saying something.

I once again moved 2 Pyrokinesis to the main, but not as a meta call. I simply wanted more sideboard slots, the extra slots became another Thalia and another Stingscourger. Those cards tend to have the most impact on my opponents where I board them in. My list is in my Signature, under Legacy Goblin Records, in the Decklist tab. "Goblins 20."

My data is starting to pile up, and show some actual numbers. Ideally I'd want about 30 matches per match-up to get a real feeling, but that is a ways off. As of right now it's showing some neat things. I'm wrecking Eldrazi with an actual 100% win ratio. On another note, despite my paper experiences, I'm losing to Infect and Lands more than I thought I would online.

Against infect I seemed to lose games where my kill spells didn't work. Spellskite wrecked me, Invigorate defensively, or from what I can tell I did lose 1 game to a poor keep. I won games where the kill spells worked. It's mostly on the back of Pyrokinesis being free.

Against lands I lost games where they just EOT Marit Lage by T3 or never saw grave hate. I would imagine I would win more often if I drew some yard hate.

I also split my 4 matches with storm somehow. The games I won had both Thalia and Gravehate, unsurprisingly.

I thought about Revoker or Pithing Needle in the main like we were talking about, but I kept coming to the conclusion that even though it's broad, I only truly want needle versus Stoneforge Mystic decks, Lands, and Sneak & Show. It may have text pretty much everywhere but that just wasn't cutting it for me as a maindeck card.

Online I keep running into enchantments that need answered that I never seem to see in paper. Moat being a big one, as the price is.. high. My records indicate that I lose more often to these strategies but not enough to actually put in a Wear // Tear. The card just doesn't do enough to justify being in my board, at least right now.

---

@silvinlight
Interesting. I guess the loss of Port and Gempalm really hurts that match. I personally find taking all of their tempo away with Pyrokinesis on Thought-Not Seer is the other critical half of that match. Did that not happen?

---

@Gobolord
I know that, for a while at least, you were recording win%s and builds. How detailed was that information? I was thinking of starting to do the same now that I've got this template up and running. I'm sure it's affected by the Success Bias, but there is probably information to be gleaned from it. Ideas? Perhaps you already are doing this?

[GoboLord]

---

@Gobolord
I know that, for a while at least, you were recording win%s and builds. How detailed was that information? I was thinking of starting to do the same now that I've got this template up and running. I'm sure it's affected by the Success Bias, but there is probably information to be gleaned from it. Ideas? Perhaps you already are doing this?

I am recording the exact decklist (since a year or so even including SB cards) as well as match records. On column per different card, with the N of copies written in the rows. I.e. a 6-rounds-event would result in 6 rows of data with 6 identical decklists and additional column for games won, games loist and games drawn in this round. I thought about recording the opponents deck as well, but there is just too much variance in labeling the decks as well as in deckbuilding. (i.e. sometimes I would label a deck as "RUG" delver, when in fact it was a bUrg list, that works more like a Team America deck, rather than a RUG Tempo one.). Also we are lacking clear definitions of even broader categories (combo, control, aggro midrange etc), and decks are evolving too fast to really draw conclusions. Our D&T MU now is quite different from how it was 12 months ago. Same goes for Miracles.

[slave]

I'm just going to run Surgical Extraction for Reanimator as it has enough text in other matches. My win-rate went up quite a bit when I added 2 to my board. It has far more impact than Grafdigger's, and that's saying something.

For reanimator, I think you're right. Extraction is far more useful against a larger part of the field than grafdigger's, which is obviously much better against the decks that struggle without their grave like Dredge.

Online I keep running into enchantments that need answered that I never seem to see in paper. Moat being a big one, as the price is.. high. My records indicate that I lose more often to these strategies but not enough to actually put in a Wear // Tear. The card just doesn't do enough to justify being in my board, at least right now

I seem to come up against Elephant Grass a lot. Yeah I don't understand it either. It's gotten to the point now, where I have to question why so many decks seem to run sub-optimal builds to use this card. A reaction to Eldrazi maybe? I've seen it all over the place (in paper, not online).
I've been considering answers for those certain opponents, given in Red the options are few.

[Fourbirr]

Dear fellow green men,

The shy guy in me would like to take his balls and stones and put them on the table to ask for some advices. Recently, I joined some FNM or casual Legacy local tournaments. Improbably, it appears that my green folk performed well against Reanimator, Elves, Lands and other combo MUs but died easily against midrange Jund, tempo Grixis Delver and weenie-white Death n Taxes with the new Thalia.

Except for the Death and Taxes build, I struggle to get rid of Tarmogoyf. Here is my decklist:

//Mana base
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Plateau
4 Rishadan Port
3 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Taiga
4 Wasteland
3 Wooded Foothills

//Core
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Æther Vial

//Others / Flex-slots
2 Mogg War Marshal
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Skirk Prospector

//Removals
2 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Stingscourger
4 Tarfire
1 Tin Street Hooligan

//Sideboard
SB: 3 Blood Moon
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Pyrokinesis
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 2 Wear // Tear (when there is Moat around, Surgical Extraction otherwise)

Watching all Jim Davis or Max Tietze SCG on the internet, I saw that they both use Relic of Progenitus to weaken the cheated Lhurgoyf and finish it off with a Gempalm Incinerator.

The problem I encounter against BURG Delver, Grixis, Jund or Shardless BUG with my list is that I often have too few goblins to have a decent Incinerator that can kill the goyf. Post side, it's a little better thanks to Relic, but that's not optimal.

What line of play would you recommend against tempo decks knowing that they have more mana denial than us, more removal that us, and...counterspells :....(

According to the Magic clock pattern, as an aggro-control deck, we should reap Control down. So, I question my skills of maybe my starting hand is just not good enough, but Goyf is really a problem since...always.

Any hints would be much appreciated :-)

[Olaf Forkbeard]

Dear fellow green men,

The shy guy in me would like to take his balls and stones and put them on the table to ask for some advices. Recently, I joined some FNM or casual Legacy local tournaments. Improbably, it appears that my green folk performed well against Reanimator, Elves, Lands and other combo MUs but died easily against midrange Jund, tempo Grixis Delver and weenie-white Death n Taxes with the new Thalia.

Except for the Death and Taxes build, I struggle to get rid of Tarmogoyf. Here is my decklist:

//Mana base
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Plateau
4 Rishadan Port
3 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Taiga
4 Wasteland
3 Wooded Foothills

//Core
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Æther Vial

//Others / Flex-slots
2 Mogg War Marshal
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Skirk Prospector

//Removals
2 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Stingscourger
4 Tarfire
1 Tin Street Hooligan

//Sideboard
SB: 3 Blood Moon
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Pyrokinesis
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 2 Wear // Tear (when there is Moat around, Surgical Extraction otherwise)

Watching all Jim Davis or Max Tietze SCG on the internet, I saw that they both use Relic of Progenitus to weaken the cheated Lhurgoyf and finish it off with a Gempalm Incinerator.

The problem I encounter against BURG Delver, Grixis, Jund or Shardless BUG with my list is that I often have too few goblins to have a decent Incinerator that can kill the goyf. Post side, it's a little better thanks to Relic, but that's not optimal.

What line of play would you recommend against tempo decks knowing that they have more mana denial than us, more removal that us, and...counterspells :....(

According to the Magic clock pattern, as an aggro-control deck, we should reap Control down. So, I question my skills of maybe my starting hand is just not good enough, but Goyf is really a problem since...always.

Any hints would be much appreciated :-)

Every list you noted has Deathrite Shaman in it. Just a thing I noticed.

Aether Vial resolving is critical in the tempo match-ups. I wait a turn to cast Vial, even in the face of their T1 Delver to dodge Daze. If they have the stone cold nuts, I was dead anyway. What I lose to is actually Gurmag Angler, as it's a Goyf that I can't trick out of existence (Relic). I leave 1 Stingscourger in during these match's as it can buy critical time to actually get damage in. I've been rewarded by killing the Deathrite Shaman and leaving a Delver before with your kill spell suite. Deathrite just facilitates so many problems for us. I just found another kill spell later or raced. A good player will actually only commit 1 threat at a time to dodge Pyrokinesis, unless they think they can overload you.. Good luck if they do such things. You can only overload on board then and attempt to dodge some form of wipe post board (Rough // Tumble, Toxic Deluge, Golgari Charm, etc).

Feel free to board out Lackey's on the draw against decks that tend to put 1/2's in it's way on turn 1.

BURG's advantage is also it's downfall. Their deck is more inconsistent than Grixis in G1 as they are coming at you from so many angles, it's possible they might not harm you enough in any. I'd advise finding your local player with that deck and asking to practice. The match is determining Who's Beatdown: the light novel.

Mogg War Marshal actually plays a very important role in both grindy match-ups mentioned, giving you a consistent board state. Each goblin in play, no matter which, adds up really fast when the deck starts churning. Between Piledriver, Gempalm, Sharpshooter and their Goyves you need every inch. Additionally I tend to board 2 Pyrokinesis, not all 3 in the grindy match's because of the discard they play. If memory serves Davis didn't board any in against Shardless when he did the match. He only brought in Relics and RIP if he was running it. But that dude doesn't need a safety blanket to march through hell, his play is tight.

I personally find Shardless to be an abysmal match-up with pretty much your list. It's not that we don't interact, it's that our end game looks a little dumb in the face of Goyf + Hymn. You really need to get ahead early and then cinch it before they can stand back up, and hope to not get blown out by Toxic Deluge or Golgari Charm. I think, with this build, you are the aggressor in the match. That said, the black splash is really the way to go to beat Tarmogoyf + Deathrite Shaman if that is becoming your specific issue. If you have 2-3 Perish floating around that inevitability shifts in your favor. The issue is that it can't be a light splash, as they play Wastelands of their own. You really need 2 actual lands that can produce actual black mana to do it. Krenko Mob Boss is the best answer in your style of deck that isn't Blood Moon to this match. Consider bringing in a Pithing Needle for Deathrite. Their deck gets a lot clunkier without it doing it's thing. For reference, if I think this deck will show up, but not be over-represented I run Krenko over my Siege-Gang.

I beat Jund with mass grave hate, almost exclusively. If it's just 2/2's and 3/2's you can rock out all day long. Grave hate handles Goyf, and mitigates Deathrite, and fights Punishing Fire. If they have some big bad enchantment you'll just have to dodge it and / or hope to find a Wear // Tear.



Lastly, 3 Blood Moons is a lot of Blood Moons. I'm surprised you are having trouble with these decks as they are the ones with the shakiest mana bases. Are they not resolving? Do they have too much on board when they resolve?

[1GoblinLackey]

Hey all!

So I've been lurking in this thread for about a year, reading and trying to figure out stuff on my own. However, although I've owned and played variations of goblins decks over the years (most nostalgically my collection of random goblins from Onslaught packs opened at the age of 7), I'm now very interested in playing the deck relatively competitively. My local legacy meta (Glasgow, Scotland is where I'm staying for the year at Uni) is thankfully very fair, so my goblin efforts won't be in vain because of the likes of Storm or Reanimator. The decks I can expect to face are as follows; Lands, Grixis Delver, Eldrazi, Chaos Elves, Sneak & Show, D&T, Shardless, and Infect. Sadly no miracles, but I'll gladly take the trade of no miracles for no storm and reanimator.

I know everyone and their dog is down on the deck right now, and I certainly understand the reasons for it; I'm sticking to it for budget reasons, and because it's goddamn fun. Preaching to the choir, I digress. What prompted me to finally make an account on the Source and join the conversation is a couple questions and conversation with other goblins players. I occasionally post on r/mtglegacy about it, but there are like...3-4 goblins players on there total (though I know Olaf and goblinpiledriver frequent this thread as well).

So! I've been doing some testing with a friend online using a gauntlet of the decks in my meta with my current build of goblins, along with possible changes I might make to my decklist.
Current List:

4 Vials

23 Lands: I know I'm missing a couple of essentials, but with some luck (and the falling pound to dollar ratio) I should finish out the lands soon enough.
4 Wasteland
2 Caverns
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Port
1 Pendelhaven (there's a lot of deathrites around)
13 Mountain

29 Creatures
4 Lackey
4 Warchief
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
3 War Marshal
3 Piledriver
1 Gempalm
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-Gang
1 Stingscourger
1 Sharpshooter
1 Skirk Prospector

4 Instants
2 Tarfire
2 Pyrokinesis

Sideboard:
3 Pithing Needle
3 Relic
2 Gempalm (perhaps a 1/1 split with Gempalm and Sharpshooter? I dunno)
1 Stingscourger
2 Tuktuk Scrapper (I've been told I /need/ to have artifact hate in the maindeck, but it seems like it has so few targets in my meta; basically just D&T and Eldrazi, right?)
2 Pyrokinesis
1 REB
1 Sudden Shock

I also intended to get 1-3 chalice of the voids, as they seem good against a lot of decks in my meta (most metas, really). I do not know what to cut for them, so any advice would be appreciated. I'd also like to know if anyone knows of a sideboarding guide for the deck. I usually can identify what to put in, but knowing what to take out is difficult for me.

My most recent interest for the deck has been testing Grenzo, Havoc Raiser. I see he was discussed a little bit back awhile back in the thread, but no one has reported testing him to my knowledge. I tried playing him a bit last night and he was at the very least testable (though we didn't get to play long enough to see the results). I was attempting to unclunkify the deck a bit, so I cut Siege-Gang and a land for 2 Grenzos. I'd like to know if other players have done well with him! I really want to try him against Shardless in particular; casting hymn or goyf in goblins seems awesome (can he allow you to cast Ancestral Vision? My instinct says no, but I don't know the ruling). I know he seems a bit "win more" but it's not unrealistic to be getting in for little bits of damage with mana open, potentially opening the door to blowouts. The Goad ability also allows him to snowball; forcing attacks is surprisingly powerful, especially when you can crack back for bunches more. The 1of Pendelhaven also benefits this strategy, as it makes things like war marshal tokens and lackeys get past DRS.


Addendum; I played a bunch of matches against Nic Fit yesterday and I don't think I've ever had more fun in a game of magic in my life. The matchup is utterly ridiculous. Both decks having a ton of mana due to veteran explorers allows me to go absurdly wide. Our final game led me to a point where he had 3 untapped siege rhinos, with me at 3 or 4, him at 29. I had a large board (7 gobs or so, critically a warchief and a piledriver. I had just cast a ringleader last turn, so my hand was matron, ringleader, piledriver, and chieftain) A needle was critically naming pernicious deed, but he had engineered explosives for 1 on board, most likely going to blow it and then kill everything (and me) with a deed to swing through with a rhino stampede. What ended up happening was I matroned for Krenko, played chieftain, piledriver, made 10 tokens, and attacked with 40something power piledrivers, along with an absolute army of 2/2 tokens and other angry green men. Absolute highlight of magic playing :D

[Fourbirr]

Thank you for your time answering me Olaf.

Lastly, 3 Blood Moons is a lot of Blood Moons. I'm surprised you are having trouble with these decks as they are the ones with the shakiest mana bases. Are they not resolving? Do they have too much on board when they resolve?

Exactly. The Blood Moon didn't resolve against Jund or it resolved, but I got punished by the fire before I could finish him. Post side, I often mulligan to 5 hoping to find one, because when it resolves, it's Game. But if not, my start is very slow and to fight against a Turn 1 Gitaxian Probe to Cabal, Turn 2 Hymm To Tourach that left me with pretty no cards in hand is hard to come back. Even a T1 Cavern+Lackey plus a T2 Lackey to Siege-gang Commander didn't made it, because he got decayed.

A T1 Delver or Deathrite and T2 Tarmogoyf is pretty hard to handle during game 1, too. Same goes gainst Shardless or Grixis. It is tight, but doable. I'll follow your advice, especially for the side tips. I continue playtesting against my friend who is a very experienced BURG Delver player.

Thanks a lot.

[Olaf Forkbeard]

A T1 Delver or Deathrite and T2 Tarmogoyf is pretty hard to handle during game 1, too. Same goes gainst Shardless or Grixis. It is tight, but doable. I'll follow your advice, especially for the side tips. I continue playtesting against my friend who is a very experienced BURG Delver player.

Thanks a lot.

Don't mulligan for it. It should simply compliment your normal game plan. Play like normal and when you draw it, look for an opening and jam it. Either you win immediately or you've got your opponent playing different for the rest of the game, leaving Decay mana up, etc. It's only the ultimate in Wasteland and Rishadan port.

Hymn is really bad for us as a control / midrange deck. The way the deck wins is by always being able to apply pressure due to a half full or full hand. Mixed with our curve, Hymn does so much damage because of needing the lands and creatures equally. Add to that that AEther Vial is Decay-able and you've got a recipe for a bad match. Ultimately you need to hope to dodge that, and additionally if they play Cabal you need to consider getting rid of hands with multiples of the heavier cards (3 and 4 drops) as you won't be able to get them out before it matters. Honestly you just need to hope they don't come down at the best possible time.

As for the rest of it, only tight play will get you there. These tend to go to the grind, as in, correct play over several turns gets you there.

I could also reference these comments by ripcurrent. Read the first set of comments, where a Shardless BUG player and I talk about what's good against him. Should be the top comment thread.

I've only played against Actual BURG twice, neither of which in a competitive setting, just messing around. It's just not very common in my area. Their weakest point should be their mana base. I would imagine those Moons coming down in the mid-game crystallizes their board state, then it's just dealing with what's left + Bolts.

[Fourbirr]

Thank you for your answers.

A T1 Delver or Deathrite and T2 Tarmogoyf is pretty hard to handle during game 1, too. Same goes gainst Shardless or Grixis. It is tight, but doable. I'll follow your advice, especially for the side tips. I continue playtesting against my friend who is a very experienced BURG Delver player.

Thanks a lot.

Don't mulligan for it. It should simply compliment your normal game plan. Play like normal and when you draw it, look for an opening and jam it. Either you win immediately or you've got your opponent playing different for the rest of the game, leaving Decay mana up, etc. It's only the ultimate in Wasteland and Rishadan port.

Actually, I don't mulligan against Delver decks to ultimately find a Blood Moon. Only against Jund, because I can hardly hope to win against them otherwise. For Delver decks and the likes, the problems really are Tarmogoyfs and the big Gurmag Angler. Deathrite and Delver both take their Tarfire in the face when they hit the board, no big deal here. As I learned from Jim Davis plays and your reminder in your first answer, there are 3 common ways to get rid of a big Goyf:

1. Incinerate his ugly lizard skin if enough goblins are in play.
2. Block Tarmo and empty the graveyard with Relic of Progenitus at the end of blockers step to weaken him.
3. Trade against an angry Piledriver.

Ultimately you need to hope to dodge that, and additionally if they play Cabal you need to consider getting rid of hands with multiples of the heavier cards (3 and 4 drops) as you won't be able to get them out before it matters.

Hmmm, I understand this point of view, but in practice, I'll prefer to keep a 4 drop Ringleader to catch up the card disadvantage done by Hymn to Tourach, Thoughtseize, Liliana and friends. Siding out 2 Matrons can surely helps to speed up my clock.

As for the rest of it, only tight play will get you there.

Ouh yeah, trying hard.

I could also reference these comments by ripcurrent. Read the first set of comments, where a Shardless BUG player and I talk about what's good against him. Should be the top comment thread.

I already read that, but thank you for the link.

[Fourbirr]

By the way, who is coming to the Eternal Week-End in Paris from the 20th to the 23rd October?

I would like to meet some Goblin fellows out there, support them and share experiences against the current match-ups.

Who's in?

[jonesypunk]

Hello guys.

After leaving my "Goblin Swiss Army Knife" at the shelf getting a bit of dust, i returned to my old classic army (oh, and i really missed them).
But like other times, it is harsh to play with them at my local store, but still they get them too much work to beat.
Despite losing all the games against combo (damn luck), I’m quite happy with the epic battles on the fair side of the force.
The last few weeks I’ve been tweaking numbers and "players" on the deck, and thinking about it and i reached to a conclusion/problem...

The conclusion:

One of the test results that I’m still trying is -1 Goblin Lackey, and for surprising that might be, I’m not missing him (last 2 Weeks I’m running only 3x), also gave me an extra slot for another bomb.
Our combo match up is terrible even in play with Lackey, and in fair matches he isn't that good as he was, being only good to get removal.

The Problem:

One of the decks that I’m having a lot of trouble beating is BUG (there are 3 decks in 12 players). Game 1 is almost every time mine (being on draw or play, makes almost no difference) being only a question of time, but after sideboard is almost impossible (unless i play a turn 2 or 3 encountered "Blood Moon", with no chance of removal).
The only card that they really fear is our bomb "Krenko, Mob Boss" because they can't deal with it (Game 1), they're spot removal just can't kill him. But they package a few good alternatives to handle him, as Discard, Pithing Needle, Toxic Deluge...
After noticing that, i though of playing "2x Krenko, Mob Boss", but those needle packages (usually 2) are two much to handle, plus Deluge :( So i thought of why not another 4CMC Goblin.

I already tried "Boartusk Liege" and he is not that bad, but unfortunately he isn't good enough (not A bomb), cause i need something that really change the game in my favor when on table.
"Siege-gang Commander" would be PERFECT, but it's 5CMC, and the main idea at 4CMC is to have one more target for Vial at 4, also be easier to cast, and also to dodge that stupid "Disfigure", but if everything else fails ... (Gang, the spot is yours. love you man).

I am going to try "Wort, Boggart Auntie", despite of him not being that good (too slow to give us real advantage; have to wait 1 turn to activate; counterproductive with rest in peace or another mass grave hate), and i didn't want to splash another color, but it's a 4CMC, can dodge "Disfigure", and he can help a lot, after a board wipe. Let’s see.

Have you got ideas??? They're usual package is: 2x Pithing Needle + 1x Null Rod + 2x Golgari Charm + 1x Toxic Deluge (Usually they side out Liliana, Daze,...)

Message to WIZARDS R&D: if you read this, here is an interesting idea ... GIVE US USEFUL GOBLINS ... and just because and why not, a 4CMC 1/3 Legendary Creature Goblin - that says:"Protection from Blue. Creatures with power greater than the number of goblins you control + 1 can't attack you. Sacrifice a goblin, Destroy target artifact. RR, Tap. Sacrifice a Goblin, deal 2 damage to target creature or player. 3G: Sacrifice this creature and another Goblin you control, destroy target enchantment and you take damage equal to that enchantments CMC", just a thought, and i think that is not unfair compared with all the things that we have to fight against.

This are the changes i have in the weeks before, compared with the actual list:
Last Week: -1 Badlands, +1 Mountain, -1 Wort, Boggart Auntie, +1 Boartusk Liege, -1 Gempalm Incinerator, +1 Tarfire, -1 Rest in Peace, +1 Relic of Progenitus, -2 Confusion in the Ranks, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Pyrokinesis
This Week: -1 Badlands, +1 Mountain, -1 Wort, Boggart Auntie, +1 Boartusk Liege, -1 Rest in Peace, +1 Relic of Progenitus, -2 Confusion in the Ranks, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Apostle's Blessing

23 LANDS
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Mountain
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Badlands
1 Plateau
1 Taiga

30 CREATURES
3 Goblin Lackey
3 Mogg War Marshal
2 Goblin Piledriver
3 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Chieftain
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
1 Krenko, Mob Boss

4 INSTANTS and SORC.
3 Tarfire

4 OTHER SPELLS
4 Aether Vial

SIDEBOARD
1 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rest in Peace
2 Containment Priest
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Blood Moon
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Confusion in the Ranks



Fourbirr@ That is really a terrible match up, it seems they always have the right answer at the right moment, but yet i usually take Game 1, the problem starts when we sideboard. Blood Moon is auto WIN if we land her early, but otherwise it will be almost impossible to win. Krenko is powerhouse, since they can't get rid of him when in the board, the problem is landing him. Hymn , it's annoying, and when they cast it, i prefer that they take everything but the lands, we will need them badly if we want to win, and the ringleader with vials we make us come back, unfortunately Game 2 and 3 they are too strong, we can win, but will be very very very difficult.

[Olaf Forkbeard]

I'm going to say exactly what you thought someone here would say. I don't believe it's right to cut a Lackey from the maindeck. You are significantly reducing your remaining chances to beat combo and, the "free win" meter against fair decks just left. Delver can just delver someone, Shardless can drop a guys hand to naught, Belcher, belches, and Goblins Lackey someone. I agree that it will probably, overall, help you in the BUG match-up as they only seem to care about the bombs we run in our deck, but every where else it looks like a subtle disaster in consistency. Not to mention more hands that have to be thrown back.


Wort seems to line up really poorly against Deathrite Shaman. I feel like you'd have more success with Lightning Crafter, Boggart Mob or Shattergang Brothers. Each of those cards demand and answer that they don't necessarily already want to have in play at all points in time.

Or just run Siege-Gang Commander.