Goblins is already good against T.A. Specially monored. With 2 Stingers then, you're golden.
I'd take out Bolts to do the 3/2 Gempalm/Sting split, then take out 1 Misstep and Chieftain for 3 Instigators.
In regards of combo, just dodge them =]
If it is Hive Mind, you have a good shot with a fast clock + ReB's + Misstep.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
The 3 Pyrokinesis in your board are perfect for Zoo. One Pyro handles a Wild Catwoman and Grim Lavamancer, or a small Goyf, early Knight etc. Plus you're running Gempalms and Stingers which are good in that matchup.
Also, you've got Misstep mainboard, and Zoo is pretty much 1CMC.dec with the exception of a few spells.
We also have something Zoo really doesn't: A late game. Trade with his early stuff as best you can, and win through superior numbers. Eventually he'll be in top deck mode while you keep drawing 2-4 cards off of your Ringleaders.
Also, per your other post: I run 3x Bloodmoon in my board for T.A. - I'm still on the fence as to whether or not it's actually necessary, but we'll see I guess.
EDIT: REB vs. Pyroblast - REB reads: Counter target blue spell or bounce target blue permanent. Pyro reads: Counter target spell if it is blue, or bounce target permanent if it is blue. They're close, but Pyro is technically better because the spell being blue isn't part of the targeting - so all of those "when this becomes the target of a spell or ability" type effects can be targeted by Pyro, it just doesn't do anything after that if the target isn't blue. It doesn't come up often, but it can come up.
Yeah, I guess MM can be of help, despite paying 2 life, I can counter Nacatls and Lavamancers. Well, I'll put this to spin, thanks!
On REB and Pyro, I can't think of many scenarios where they are much different, but I believe REB is better for it cannot be misdirected to a random land or spell like Pyroblast can, isn't it? I'm probably missing something.
@ScatmanX -> Is Warren Instigator better than either Chieftain and MWM?
Appreciated the help, tyvm
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
jrw1985,
I am just seeing if anyone tried it out before. I just played a couple matches yesterday with my friends and I like it more than Chrome Mox so far since I am playing a Rgb build. More testing is needed though. Since I am playing with twenty two lands, I have no issues so far pitching one for Mox Diamond (it could be luck). Again, I am more than willing to pitch a fetch land for it than pitching a goblin, especially in late games or if I SB Pyrokinesis. I might try it out in a local tournament next week (first one in years) and see how it goes with my Rgb build. I also have a mono red Instigator build with Rite of Flame and a traditional mono red build with Ports and 2 WI / 2 MWM. I am still debating which one to try out first though.
Gui,
For starters, you can take out 3 Lightning Bolts and replacement with your fourth Incinerator and 2 MWM (assuming you have a second MWM). You might want to buy one Stingscourger (against Emrakul) and another Pyrokinesis (against Zoo, Elves, etc) for your SB. Against Zoo, your already have Incinerators, Mental Misstep, and Pyrokinesis in your SB. You probably do not need any more hate.
Ok... as I said, I want to try 4 MM, so I'll go 2 WI instead of 3.
I *think* I'll *probably* have a chance to put this list to spin this weekend. If I really get the chance to do it properly, sure, I'll share the experience.
Thanks for the advices. ^^
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
On Thursday I played a tourny where things didn't go as planned. I went 1-2 and dropped, and I was pretty disheartened by it. Looking back though, it actually turned out pretty decent for me. I used pretty much the same list ScatmanX wrote up in his qualifying report, but with a slightly different sideboard (due to card availability). I considered dropping some artifact hate in the side for enchantment hate (2 copies of Reverent Silence) but I normally only run into Enchantress at big weekend events, not small weekday ones.
Round 1 RBW
First game I drew about 8 lands and naturally lost.
Second game my opponent drew 2 duals which I Wasted and he lost.
Third game was real. He played a Lavamancer and a Revoker on my Vial. I Gempalmed his Revoker which drew me a Pyrokinesis. I Pyro'd his Lavamancer the same turn to keep him from using it to gain board position on me. I won from there.
Round 2 UWB Thopters Stoneforge
Game 1 went well for me. I was able to sneak some goblins through for the win and everything was groovy.
Game 2 was back and forth. Darkblast beat on me, but I finally got a Ringleader into play which should have won me the game, except that it totally blanked on all 4 cards. Woof. That was pretty unlucky and I lost that one.
Game 3 I considered siding in Leyline of the Void to blank his Thopters combo and keep him from recurring darkblast, but I ultimately decided REBs and Artifact hate had more utility against him. I kept a pretty weird opening hand. It was Fetch, Taiga, Mox Diamond, Warren Instigator, Pyrokinesis, Matron, and I don't remember the last card. He was running Mental Misstep and Force and Swords, but I thought this hand could still be pretty good. If he kept on a MM opener I was golden. If he had Force he could 2:1 my Instigator, which would essentially be a 2:2 due to the Mox, but I would still have mana acceleration and a T2 Matron into Ringleader. So i played the fetch, got a Mountain, then played the Chrome Mox imprinting Pyrokinesis. That seemed like the card to pitch since I was already giving myself card disadvantage with Mox. More disadvantage with Pyro seemed bad. I cast WI and he resolved. So, I had dodged the counters while on the play. Unfortunately, on his turn he had the Swords to Plowshares. He was able to take it from there on. His Stifle on a late game Ringleader sealed the deal. I felt pretty lousy about that match, but in retrospect it actually went pretty well. I took Game 1, I would have won G2 had the Ringleader not been super unlucky, and he had the Swords G3, which was the worst case scenario card for my starting hand. So really, it wasn't that bad of a loss.
Round 3 Enchantress
Of course someone has to bring this to a weekly event. And I've got nothing to side against it. G1 he plays T2 Enchantress and Elephant grass, then lands a Solitary about two turns later. I play until he cast a Words of War, then I scoop. I just needed to see a win condition. I side out my Stingscourgers since they do literally nothing this matchup and side in 4 Leyline of the Void just because they seem marginally less useless. G2 I bash him down to 2, then he lands Moat. I cast a Matron for Seige-Gang, going the burn route. I have to hold Seige gang since I don't have the mana to cast and activate him this turn (because I cast the the Matron), so I have to give him one more turn. He topdecks Ruined Halo like a champ, and plays it naming SGC. Grrrr. I then realize that I didn't side in Sharpshooter, like an idiot. That guy is tailor-made for control matchups, and I'm well away that going to the dome is a hugely important late game option against Moat. So I scoop, since I have literally no way to win this game anymore. I dropped from the tourny in a sour mood, 1-2, feeling like I had done a shitty job.
But, looking back, I actually did very well. The game I lost in the first round was only due to mana flood. The other 2 games i dominated his Bobs and Lavamancers, and I blew up his Batterskulls with Tin-Street Hooligans.
Round 2 I won the first game, was in position to win the second game but got horribly unlucky on the Ringleader, and the third game saw a cruel end to my T1 play where I feel I made the right play. he just had the Swords. Whateryagonnado?
Round 3 was one of goblin's worst matchups, but I haven't lost to Enchantress in a long time. I wasn't expecting to see it, I didn't have a sideboard plan for it, and I was due to lose to it. I also made a huge mistake by not including Sharpshooter G2, and my opponent got hugely lucky precisely when he needed to.
So even though I felt crapped on at the end of the night, in retrospect the cards just didn't fall my way. The only real mistake I seem to have made was forgetting Sharpshooter, which was inexcusable. I'll try to remember next time.
So it goes.
Nice Report dude. Dont feel to sad on that empty Ringleader: I just had the same scenario too today, throwing a win away by just revealing 4 lands with Ringleader on Turn X while I fetched like a champ each turn. Well you might think that may happen, at least you dont draw a land next turn. BZZZT topdeck Chrome Mox -> Lose.
So while i am typing i feel like writing a short tournament report of sunday legacy today:
Me using a R/G List with a pretty standart list using 21 lands 2 chrome mox with 2/2 MWM and WI.
Match 1: GW Maverick
Game1: This was pretty straightforward, he went for Runemother, Knight and Noble Hierarch while i developed my own board with Vial in those turn into some nice stuff featuring Warchief, Piledriver, Ringleader etc. I come to have a shitload of Goblins + tokens + Gang bang Commander on my side and simply overrun him.
Boarded out my Lackeys and sided in Sharpshooter, 2 Knesis and 2 Arc Trails
Game2: He starts with Hierarch and next turn sticks that annoying Mother again, which I bounce with my Stingscourger gladly to give me more time. The plan is successful and i get my board full with important Goblins before he gets to swing with his Knight finally. I have a MWM on my side chumpblocking him for another 2 turns while he got another Knight out eventually. I still see no point in overrunning him with less than 20 damage to just die to the Knights so i keep playing from above to find that goddamn Ringleader or Matron into him. Well after several lands he has an outstanding board position of Several Knights, Thrun, Mother and Scryb Ranger. Still only seeing lands, chump blockers die and so do I.
Game3: This was interesting. I had superior board position but he had Mother and Knight out, he paths my Warchief to delay my engine. I draw Sharpshooter and play him to get rid of Aven Mindcensor and Eternal Witness while chumpblocking Thrun and Knight again. I draw into a Knesis and after combat i stick 3 damage on a /3 Knight and the fourth damage on Runemother. I forgot the activated Ability of Knight here, so he just fetched in another land and gave his Mother protection. Real close game, sharpshooter got him down to 4 or something while i still had goblins to finish the deal. But then the ultimate surprise came to hit the Table: Stoneforge Mystic into Batterskull. Before the lategame of game3 I didnt even recognize he did play SFM. Oh well I lose from there on for not drawing into matron or tinkerer.
0-1
Match2: RGW Zoo
Game1: I didnt really know what i am up against, just saw a goofy which i chumpblocked with my MWM tokens for several turns and getting my Lackey burned, my SGC Oblivion Ringed and my Warchief Helix'd. The goofy stays kinda small until a Noble Hierarch appears and gives him exalted into 4/5. I draw business in the mid of the game again and I keep playing a creature every turn while Goofy eats me. I finally manage to cycle a Gempalm Incinerator into his Goofy killing him and drawing a Ringleader. Until now i fetched every turn. Now the scenario from above takes place: I would have won this shit if not 4 goddamn fetches and wastelands lay above. Next turns i lose to a big Knight.
Board: In: 2 Arc Trails, 2 Knesis Out: 2 Instigators 2 Lackeys
Game2: Ok this starts kinda handy. I keep a Vial, Lackey, Matron, SGC hand with some lands. I immedately start to have board control until a goofy and a knight appears, followed a few turns later by a pridemage blowing my vial and another one for Exalted trigger. He managed to handle 2 SGCs so far leaving me with some tokens and a piledriver + warchief. After a huge swing i get him to 4 life. He has 3 mana + 1 uncracked fetch. He plays a jitte and i am forced to target him with arc trail, getting him to 2 while not able to swing through with a single goblin. I waste his Manland. I port another land during his upkeep. He cracks his fetch, leaving him at one. He plays the land he needed from top and equips jitte. He swings for some counters. He plays Terravore. He stomps me to the ground. ARRRRRGH. Lightning Bolt would have won me this! Damn stupid Arc Trail.
0-2
Match3: Bye
Ok after so much bad luck that needed to be.
1-2
Match4: UGB *****
So this starts like a question/answer game. I win dice and start with Mountain Lackey go. During his turn he plays an Underground See and kills of my lackey with a 1cmc black removal spell. Ok fine, next turn i go vial + wasteland. Vial resolves, his Sea meets the dust. In response he brainstorms and finds another land eventually. So the same starts from new, still not seeing any play from him. I go the Warchief Route into Matrons and several Piledrivers and win this thing smoothly. Not seeing anything from his deck except a Nimble Mongoose on his last turn(oh its thresh! bing bing bing)
In: 3 Magus of the Moon, 1 Goblin Sharpshooter. Out: Skirk Prospector, 3 lackeys
Game2: He starts classical with a Nimble Mongoose, go.
I try a vial which gets mental misstepped. He gets goofy and werebears to join the fun. I get dazed twice and get beat by a shitload of vanillas.
Game3:
I have an uber hand with mox, 2 matron, 1 lackey, 1 vial, fetch and taiga. So i imprint a matron to mox and start with Lackey AND vial. Whew. Both resolve and go. He starts of with mongoose again. We stall out a few turns until i draw magus of the moon from above and he grips my vial before he gets in. Oh well.
I am too scared to play him with my only 3 lands left only to get dazed, so i hope to topdeck another land to safely get him trough. Luckily i get the shiny mountain a turn later and encourage myself to just hardcast magus. He desperatly brainstorms into an answer but fails and he lets him resolve.
From there on I just win. I draw goblin into goblin building a huge army to simply outclass his only 3/3 mongoose and bash in with warchief, tokens, matrons, ringleader and double piledriver. Moon effect screwed him so hard.
2-2
Match 5: Dredge.
Well, i was expecting this a day before so i went for 3 sideboard Ravenous Traps dedicated to dredge. It happened to be a good friend of mine, which was pretty cool.
Game1: He gets the broken start with PImp and Breaktrough for 0. I myself start broken too with vial into lackey into surprise Gang Bang Commander. He builds a few tokens and Ichorid trying to therapy me for just having nothing on my hand. I topdeck piledriver, war marshal, 2nd gang bang commander and just outclass him and his Iona by far.
In: 3 Ravenous Traps, 2 knesis Out: Goblin Tinkerer, 2 instigators, 2 lackeys
Game2: Keeping a solid hand with lackey and SGC but with no Trap. Lackey gets down but siege gang commander gets therapied before action. He overruns me with Iona + ichorids + tokens. Made some mistake too for wasting his land leaving me a turn behind and he simply played another one next turn.
Game3: Now this was close. I got him down pretty fast with MWM tokens and Piledriver with 2 vials out. I go tricky and pay his echo cost, waiting for some other bridges and then remove 3 bridges for gempalm cycling my own MWM. He screws around with therapy hitting siege gang and 2 other relevant cards one being warchief. He has Iona out and 2 zombie tokens, dredging into another bridge and stalling me as i just cant get trough. I have a vial at 4 and one at 5 for simply taking the last 4 life of him with a siege gang commander from top i hoped, or just ringleader would have been awesome too. But then the unthinkable came to happen. He dredges Elesh Norn and hardcasts a dread return on her. I now stare at a field with like 4 zombie tokens, iona and elesh norn leaving me with an empty board. Next turn i drew into Siege gang, oh fuck.
2-3
So much bad luck today, but i think i piloted the deck correctly except that one mistake for Knesis on a knight, forgetting his ability. Would have lost to batterskull anyway, but yeah.. I wont ever play this deck without perish ever again, thats for sure.
True strength lies in action. Let the weak react to me! -Kamahl, Pit Fighter
@ jrw1985: Did you not have Krosan Grip in the SB regardless of whether or not you expected Enchantress? Also, assuming you were looking to screw over Enchantress specifically rather than be broad and hit general enchantments (Counterbalance?) then Harmonic Convergence is so much better of a screw card against us than Reverent Silence. Plenty of Enchantress's run Replenish as a 2-of and unlike Goblins we have better card advantage to draw into our 2-of than Goblins does of their 2-3 of unless you get lucky on the draw or mull to oblivion. Trust me, few Enchantresses beyond myself actually invest them time to learn how to stack with this card. Plus you also get the added bonus of it being instant speed so you don't provide the opponent with the possibility of a comeback(because assuming you can't hardcast it they'll gain 6 life which might just be enough to buy them 1 extra turn).
Hey, guys, I just had a few questions:
1) I read back a couple pages to get some input but like other threads I had mixed opinions so I apologize for bringing up it: is this a deck that can use MM in a more aggro-oriented meta with 2/2 dedicated control/combo? I ask because I saw a Goblins player in my meta running MM as a 4-of in his build which seemed like it worked amazingly for our meta due to the amount of aggro I've seen + its ability ward of the Zoo players I'm seeing starting to come back. However, when browsing online I've seen few if any decks sporting it. IMO it seems like Revoker in that every deck wants to use it but few can actually do so effectively + it being based more on meta. So, is this a viable addition if the meta can support it, or did the guy just luck out on his draws?
2) Is there beginning to be a consensus reached that Mox's are effective as 2-3 ofs? I seem to recall some time ago when the topic came up of it being shot down because it was unnecessary but after several years it seems that splashing a color has become much more relevant (and necessary) for the decks survival.
3) Splash-for-green has always been the direction I went when building this deck but at my heart I'm a black player. When last I checked the primary reasons for a black splash were Auntie and Warren Weirding as well as on rare ocassion Leylines (ability to hardcast somewhat of a necessity) and perhaps TS for disruption or even targeted removal. Has there been any new insights into this? (NOTE to this splash question was that I was going to ask about SFM before I read the text and realized "Wow, I'm about to ask if a midrange non-Goblin card that eats 5-6 slots would be viable in a deck that wants to win asap!" Lol, so glad I read my own text first).
Sorry if I bug anyone about asking when I could probably just look through the thread but sometimes its nice to ask rather than invest time scrolling through a bunch of pages. (Yes, I did just use laziness as an excuse)
Forlorn Egoist
How to play Belcher:
Step 1) Draw 7 cards.
Step 2) Throw said 7 cards onto the table while making a "BLAH!" sound.
Step 3) Hold up hands quizically and ask: "Do I win?"
Decks
Enchantress
Dragon Stompy
Rock
UG Madness/Thresh (Pauper)
No Grip in the side. There just aren't that many enchantments that still matter, so artifact hate is usually good enough. For blowing out Enchantress I prefer Reverent Silence, because the life gain is inconsequential when you're sending in a horde. Because Enchantress does nothing to stall your board developement you are free to play every goblin you have before casting Rev Silence. The 6 life shouldn't save them. I always find that free spells are the best, free sweepers, doubly so.
Thus far, I don't think anyone on this thread has posted a report for a deck including MM. I think it's entirely viable though, if only because people used to run 3-4 Lightning Bolts maindeck. If the deck can support Bolt there's no reason it couldn't support MM.
Chrome Mox just works because everything is Red and we draw enough cards to even it out. We also need more access to red mana since casting Instigator is becoming a larger part of goblin's strategy. People haven't played Mox Diamond becuase we don't have the lands or recursion to support it. Simian Spirit Guide and ritualts are more combo oriented, which doesn't work well with Goblin's late game. Chrome Mox doesn't really work well with a color splash, but splashing isn't a huge part of the deck anyway. You're never running more than 4 non-red cards after sideboarding anyway.
Green is the splash du jour, just for Tin-Street Hooligan. The deck can easily support a 2nd splash though. I used to play Rbg. I always hid the G as I had 0 MD green cards, but postboard I would use it for Grips and the like. It caught a lot of people off guard. I was a huge fan of the B splash though. Warren Weirding is an awesome card. It was brutal when Reanimator mattered, and it is still great against natural Order.
The main question we need to answer now is how to deal with Batterskull off of Stoneforge Mystic. TSH is a fine option, as is TukTuk Scrapper.
I agree.
My md nowadays has 2 Pyroknesis (and 0 Mox), because it is awesome against almost every deck, and was usually boarded in. This also clear some SB space, to deal with decks were having Knesis md hurts us.
Reading the 2 last post, I started thinking if something like Cabal Therapy, with Mental Misstep backup, would be enough to deal with Stoneforge. I aways wanted to try Stingscourger+Therapy. Maybe now it can actually be a good move.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Seems like Pithing Needle/Phyrexian Revoker is great again. All tempo decks are trying SFM, and BUG Landstill and Team America heavily depends on Pernicious Deed as well. It can still hit lots of trouble cards like Grim Lavamancer, Sterling Grove and Jace 2.0.
I'd run it in addition to Blood Moons, which are stupidly good in today's non-basic heavy meta. Resolving a Moon effect against 3-colors.dec is almost an auto-scoop.
Too bad Wizards of the Coast pee'd on TukTuk Scrapper. If he was 2R ETB Destroy target artifact (without that stupid Ally effect), it'd be so much better :(
@ Marcelo: I wonder how your MD looks like, now you cut CM. Did you add more Ports? Do you still stick to WI and 2 TSH in MD?
@ Vanadlize: Totally agree with you on Blood Moon. On my tornament I attended yesterday I boarded it in 4 out of 7 games. I was able to land it 3 times and it won me the games 3 times. Moon was absolutely the strongest SB card (along with Pyrokinesis and Krip).
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
My last champ this weekend I ended up playing Spiral Tide (and beat 3 Merfolk decks to get to Top8 =D), so haven't got all that practicing with my changes.
I wanted to make monored work again, for the lifeloss, and to cut Taigas, because I was eventually screwed up by them. That allowed me to go to 22 lands again (1 port), 25 core(-1 Piledriver), then 4 Instigator, 2 Stingscourger, 2 Pyroknesis, 3 Gempalm Incinerator, 1 Skirk Prospector, 1 Tuktuk Scraper.
The 4cc of Tuktuk was never an issue. This deck has a shitload of removal, and 2 more SB slots for problematic MU's.
Mine was: 1 Knesis, 2 Arc Trails (sorry it didn't work for you ToSha), 3 Blood Moon, 3 Pyroblast, 3 Shattering Spree, 3 Surgical Extracion.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Hi guys,
I'm plan on building this deck and read thru most of the thread but I was wondering if Dismember was ever discussed? Would Lightning Bolt better in the slot? Does the 4 life really matter if you clear the way for your lackey? This was my plan for the other components on my mono R build:
Others (12):
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Mental Misstep
3 Dismember
1 Stingscourger
Feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Playing Misstep AND Dismember would dilute the deck greatly, Misstep already took Bolt's spot. If you really want to try Dismember, I suggest cutting out MMS.
The reason merfolks use Dismember is the lack of spot removal in blue. Red obviously does not have that problem. In my opinion, Pyrokinesis is better for the purpose.
Based on my experience Mental Misstep has proven to be quite good against Dredge. Really complements your graveyard hate in the sideboard games by countering their enablers. Also, with some 6 hate cards after sideboarding, you're not forced to mulligan as hard.
That being said, I realized most of this stuff after loosing two straight dredge matches at a tournament last weekend. Cost me the Top 8 but at least I've learned something useful.
There are currently 3 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 3 guests)