[Deck] Goblins

[Zork]

When I tested food chain gobs, I found myself in love with Lightning Crafter and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker for the "oops I win" factor of infinite comboing out. Skirk Prospector also helped with this, while turning some gobs into real mana mid-combo if necessary.

[ScatmanX]

Guys me and my friend are testing Foodchain in a straight forward agro built gobs deck without vials all I can say that this build is incredibly faster than vial gobs but in the midgame if I survive its alpha strikes I usually won the matches

There is a thread for this on the N&D: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?12248-[Deck]-Goblin-Champions&highlight=goblin+champions
We have developed the deck quite a bit, and it is indeed much faster than Vial Goblins, and better against Combo, but is way more inconsistent...
Someday I'll get back on it I guess, since it is incredibly fun to kill your opponent T2 under a Trinisphere =D

[GoboLord]

Hey guys!

Does anyone have an idea for sideboard options against Dark Horizons for the mono red build.

Thanks,
Tom

Blood Moon, Pyrokinesis, Relic of Progenitus

[Kha]

Has anyone tried bonehoard in their sideboard yet?

It seems like it would help the attrition plan against other creature decks (zoo, new horizons etc), whilst also giving you a resilient threat against control.

[LostButSeeking]

Has anyone tried bonehoard in their sideboard yet?

It seems like it would help the attrition plan against other creature decks (zoo, new horizons etc), whilst also giving you a resilient threat against control.

I'm usually in favor of testing rather than sumarily dismissing things, but four mana for a nongoblin that can't be played with via seems really bad.

[Vandalize]

Hey there!

Taking back the old and heavily discussed topic about Graveyard Hate. I won't last long, just a brief comment about something that happened to me in a game.

I was using this sideboard:

4 Pyrokinesis
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Krosan Grip
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Back to Nature
1 Stingscourger
1 Relic of Progenitus

Yeah, faerie macabre is simply amusing... I was playing a really slow role against a UGB Rock, and lategame I was with the board almost done (I had like a MWM and a token) and he had a Gatekeeper of Malakir. I had 2 Vials (one @3 and one @4). And my topdecks were basically lands and other useless stuff. My foe's life was at 4 and I was at 6 or 7.

Ok, seems like a common matchup, where both runs are in a topdeck war to get some threat... But my threat was really, really scary: a 2/2 Flying Faerie came from the depths of hell to be vialed in and swing twice, while his Gatekeeper couldn't do anything but watching it fly over his head.

Yeah, I don't remember exactly why I sided in Faerie Macabre against UGB Rock but it was freaking awsome to beat with it.

Since then, it has taken 2 slots in my sideboard.

Ok, it's a weird stupid story. But indeed, Faerie Macabre is really effective against GY. Some people might say: oh, it's range is so awful! Only two cards... But it's pretty fine against Dredge, since you can remove their bridges with Skirk Prospector, MWM, Stingscourger, and still remove 2 Ichorids from GY and blow their board advantage. Or you can remove an Ancestor's Chosen, before they can DR it.

Well, they've replaced those old fashioned Tormod's Crypt, who haven't been scarying people for a long time.

[GoboLord]

Hey there!

Taking back the old and heavily discussed topic about Graveyard Hate. I won't last long, just a brief comment about something that happened to me in a game.

I was using this sideboard:

4 Pyrokinesis
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Krosan Grip
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Back to Nature
1 Stingscourger
1 Relic of Progenitus

Yeah, faerie macabre is simply amusing... I was playing a really slow role against a UGB Rock, and lategame I was with the board almost done (I had like a MWM and a token) and he had a Gatekeeper of Malakir. I had 2 Vials (one @3 and one @4). And my topdecks were basically lands and other useless stuff. My foe's life was at 4 and I was at 6 or 7.

Ok, seems like a common matchup, where both runs are in a topdeck war to get some threat... But my threat was really, really scary: a 2/2 Flying Faerie came from the depths of hell to be vialed in and swing twice, while his Gatekeeper couldn't do anything but watching it fly over his head.

Yeah, I don't remember exactly why I sided in Faerie Macabre against UGB Rock but it was freaking awsome to beat with it.

Since then, it has taken 2 slots in my sideboard.

Ok, it's a weird stupid story. But indeed, Faerie Macabre is really effective against GY. Some people might say: oh, it's range is so awful! Only two cards... But it's pretty fine against Dredge, since you can remove their bridges with Skirk Prospector, MWM, Stingscourger, and still remove 2 Ichorids from GY and blow their board advantage. Or you can remove an Ancestor's Chosen, before they can DR it.

Well, they've replaced those old fashioned Tormod's Crypt, who haven't been scarying people for a long time.

Ok, I see your point with Faarie Macabre (and I don't find your story stupid; it exactly illustrates it's strength and weaknesses).
I don't agree with you on Tormod's Crypt. Why do you think it doesn't scare anyone? I find it pretty impressive against all Loam-strategies (including Lands.dec), Dredge and ANT (against IGGY and C. Rit.).

[Lejay]

I don't have any room for faerie macabre (although I like it) but it's worth noting it is a rogue and therefore you can prowl an earwig squad with it.

[jrw1985]

I don't have any room for faerie macabre (although I like it) but it's worth noting it is a rogue and therefore you can prowl an earwig squad with it.

Well kiss my grits, I hadn't noticced that. Faerie is pretty good. I too have used it to end a long and drawn out game where my opponent was sitting back on 4 life and a Goyf while I had a Matron and Tinkerer in play. Along came Faerie, flying over for the win. Good times.

[aTn]

I'm thinking of playing rb Goblins tomorrow at a local tournament.

I've been on a hiatus from Legacy for a couple of months (following GP Columbus), so I'm picking up a deck I know fairly well.

Anyhow, I'm thinking of the following SB, but by no means am I aware of recent metagame changes.

3 Pyrokinesis
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 CotV
1 Goblin Tinkerer
2 Perish

What do you think of it ?

[GoboLord]

Overall: very straight, very good.

But...

* ...I don't think you need 6 combo hate pieces (cause combo is IMO unlikely to show up in high numbers). Chalice is the more flexible choice for unknown meta, so you should do fine with 4 copies of it.
* ...I like Tuktuk Scrapper more than Tinkerer (unless you have multiple Chieftains)
* ...it's easier to comment on SBs when we can see the MD

[Neuad]

Big tournement coming up at my local store, 15 Jaces total prize. (Broken down 4-3-2-2-1-1-1-1)

Here is the list I'm on right now

// Lands
4 [R] Badlands
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
4 [MPR] Wasteland
3 [ON] Mountain (3)
3 [MM] Rishadan Port
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
2 [R] Taiga

// Creatures
3 [LE] Gempalm Incinerator
4 [US] Goblin Lackey
4 [7E] Goblin Matron
4 [ON] Goblin Piledriver
4 [AP] Goblin Ringleader
4 [SC] Goblin Warchief
2 [M10] Siege-Gang Commander
1 [CHK] Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 [LRW] Wort, Boggart Auntie
1 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter
3 [EVG] Mogg War Marshal
2 [M11] Goblin Chieftain

// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
2 [MOR] Warren Weirding

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter
SB: 3 [6E] Perish
SB: 3 [AL] Pyrokinesis
SB: 2 [ON] Patriarch's Bidding
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [WL] Null Rod

Turn 2 Null Rod completely shuts down affinity, and I have problems with affinity.
KGrips for EPlagues and CB
Perish is obvious
Patriarchs Bidding for control and zoo.
Rest is obvious.

[flrn]

I played Mono Red Goblins at a local tournament yesterday. This was the list that I played:

3 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Mogg War Marshal
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Skirk Prospector

3 Lightning Bolt

4 Aether Vial

14 Mountain
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
1 Goblin Chieftain
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Blood Moon
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Chalice of the Void

The guy, which gave me the deck couldn't find his fourth Pyrokinesis. Thats why I had a Chieftain in the board to have an additional Lord against Engineered Plague.

Round 1 against Doomsday Fetchland Tendrils

G1: He has the third turn kill.

-3 Lightning Bolt, -3 Gemplam Incinerator, -1 Goblin Chieftain, + 4 Chalice of the Void, +3 Blood Moon

G2: I keep a hand with Turn 3 Blood Moon and Turn 1 Lackey. He has Turn 2 Duress für my Moon, but i topdeck another one. A resolved Moon is kinda good against a manabase made off 10 Fetchies, 6 Duals and only 1 Basic Island. He can't recover from that one.

G3: I keep a hand with 2x Blood Moon and Chalice of the Void. I have Turn 1 Lackey and Chalice on 0. He fetched for Basic Island while i get a Turn 3 Moon online. End of Turn he bounce's my Chalice and goes for the kill, because he got his 1-off Petal as an initial Black Source. Bad Luck.

Round 2 against Deadguy Ale

G1: He lands a turn 2 Dark Confidant, which flips a Swamp in the first Upkeep, a Shriekmaw and then a Tombstalker. Nevertheless i had so many guys, that he couldn't do shit about it.

-3 Lightning Bolt, +3 Pyrokinesis

G2: I keep a slow hand and every single on of my threats eats a removal.

G3: His removal can't handle the amount of guys i throw on the board. Easy win.

Round 3 against TES

G1: He has the second Turn Kill.

-3 Gempalm Incinerator, -1 Goblin Chieftain, +4 Chalice of the Void

G2: After a Mulligan I got the following six cards: Mountain, Rishadan Port, Chalice of the Void, Chalice of the Void, Aether Vial, Goblin Warchief. I lead off with Mountain, Vial, Chalice 0. He had the turn 1 Kill, but Chalice 0 kept him from going off. I put a Chalice on 1 in my second Turn. He plays Burning Wish for Shattering Spree. In his next turn he finds his third land, but my Rishadan Port keeps tapping his City of Brass in his upkeep, so he never gets to 3 Mana to blow up my whole defense.

G3: I open up the following Hand: Lackey, Vial, Vial, Port, Port, Mountain, Mountain. I thought some time about sending that hand to Paris, but then decided to keep it. If i have a chance to attack his manabase with my ports, I propably can get a win here. Long story in short. His first two cantrips doesn't find any business spell and it comes down to the following situation. My board consists of Lackey, Ringleader, Warchief, 3x Port, 2x Mountain and a Vial with one counter (I missed one Upkeep trigger earlier). My opponent is on 15 Life. I go into my turn and again i forgot to add a counter to my Vial. I topdeck a Siege-Gang Commander and play him. My teams swings for 10 damage. The Lackey Trigger puts a Matron into play, which fetches out a Skirk Prospector. I have no Mountain untapped, but luckily i forgot to turn up my Vial counters. I put Skirk Prospector via Vial into play and my one untapped Rishadan Port + my 8 Goblins are enough to shoot 6 Damage into his face via Siege-Gang.

Round 4 against Zoo

G1: I put lots of guys into play. His removal can't eat all of my guys and I win.

-3 Lightning Bolt, +3 Pyrokinesis

G2: I keep the following hand: Lackey, Piledriver, Warchief, Matron, 3x Mountain. Too bad he has a removal for every guy I play.

G3: He goes down to 5 cards and i go down to 6 cards. I keep a one land hand with Vial and 4 guys. After some fights and some removal of him, it comes down to the following situation: He has 1 card in hand, 4 lands in play, a Steppe Lynx, a Tarmogoyf and a Lavamancer equipped with Basilisk Collar in play. In my graveyard are only creatures, so Goyf is a 1/2. He has no Fetchland. I have 5 Goblin Tokens in play, 5 Lands (2 of them are ports) and my hand consists of 2 Pyrokinesis. And that's where i fuck up badly twice. My opponent is on 10 Life. I'm on 14 Life. I pitch 1 Pyrokinesis to the other one and assign 2 damage to Goyf, 1 to Lavamancer and 1 to Lynx. My opponent doesn't realize how bad I played that and responded to my Kenisis with a Path to Exile on one of my tokens. His Goyf survives. The other 4 Tokens come in for 4 Damage. In his next turn i forgot to tap down his mana with my ports and he topdecks a Bloodbraid Elf. His Elf reveals 3 turns of bad topdecks and then a Lightning Bolt, which shoots down one of my tokens. After that i topdeck 4 Mountains in a row and my opponent beats me down.

The deck performed very well. The only change i consider is to add a Stingscourger as a tutor target for the Matron in place of one of the Piledriver's. Mogg War Marshal is awesome! And naturally it should be 4 Pyrokenisis in the board instead of the Chieftain. The Chieftain in the board did nothing all day long. I'f i had just assigned 3 damage to the goyf and 1 to the Lavamancer in the third game of Round 4, going along with tapping down his mana in his upkeep in the following turns, I'm sure I would have won that game. But i pushed my luck badly that day, so I'm fine with that. I had 3 bad matchups in four rounds and ended up going 2:2.

[bakofried]

I think this was brought up before, but why do you have Lightning Bolts in the main (typically there to help against Zoo) and then...board them out against Zoo?

[Amon Amarth]

I'm guessing he wanted to keep his Goblin count high enough to make Ringleader good. I probably would have boarded out 3 Piledrivers for the 3 'kinesis. 28 Goblins still seems good enough.

[Nelis]

I think this was brought up before, but why do you have Lightning Bolts in the main (typically there to help against Zoo) and then...board them out against Zoo?

I asked the same thing before.

I'm guessing he wanted to keep his Goblin count high enough to make Ringleader good. I probably would have boarded out 3 Piledrivers for the 3 'kinesis. 28 Goblins still seems good enough.

That means there's absolutely no reason to run Lightning Bolts at all in the main deck. I'm very interested in why the bolts are actually put in. What are the used for if its not the Zoo match-up. Hopefully FLRN can tell us why.

[GoboLord]

ScatmanX and me have been testing and advocating Lightnig Bolts ever since, so I think I can tell you why.

IMO Goblins don't much GOOD removal available.
Gempalm Incinerator isn't nessecarily a 4-of but most often a 3-of. That leaves 3-5 removal-slots unoccupied (cause generally run 6-8).
As FLRN stated in his report a Stingscourger should be played as a 1-of in MD.
What is left now? Warren Weirding? Lightning Bolt?
I think the next best removal here is Lightning Bolt.
* it costs only 1 mana
* it's red
* it's an instant
* it targets a creature of your choice (seriously, how many creatures we want to get rid of have shroud)
and most importantly:
* it's not a tribal sorcery (yes, I'm looking at you Tarmogoyf)

Lightning Bolt kills the most common creatures that we find in legacy:
Confidant, Noble Hierarch, Tarmogoyf, Lavamancer, every Cat, every Fish, the singleton token that was left behind for defense, Vampire Nighthawk etc.

I mean: if you really want to dealwith big creatures there is no point in removing them: just chumpblock with matron, Lackey, whatever. Against multiple fatties we have Perish available.

An alternative to L.Bolt might be Swords to Plowshares, but I see no point in running Warren Weirding unless your meta is flooded with Aggro Loam and Rock/Junk. (even in those metas I'd prefer Stingscourger because it has a body and can use AEther Vial).

[Nelis]

I can imagine why one would want to put bolts in (I personally wouldn't, I'd rather go for Rb than put in Bolts) but if its taken out against the match up where it matters most (zoo) then I don't understand why he's running bolts. The other non-zoo creatures you mention (apart from maybe tarmo) can be taken care of with Gempalms (and additional cards in the sideboard). Those decks that might feature those cards aren't the fastest decks around so we have more time dealing with those creatures.

edit: if your metagame isnt good for goblins then don't play goblins. (If possible of course, I understand that not every one has multiple decks available)

[GoboLord]

I imagine why one would want to put bolts in (I personally wouldn't, I'd rather go for Rb than put in Bolts) but if its taken out against the match up where it matters most (zoo) then I don't understand why he's running it. The other non-zoo creatures you mention (apart from maybe tarmo) can be taken care of with Gempalms. Those decks arent the fastest decks around so we have more time dealing with those creatures.

edit: if your metagame isnt good for goblins than don't play goblins. (If possible of course, I understand that not every one has multiple decks available)

Boarding out Bolts was a mistake, thats true.
The thing is: we may not play 8 gempalms, and even if it were so: gempalm needs creature in play (which we dont have from time to time)

edit: if your metagame isnt good for goblins then don't play goblins. (If possible of course, I understand that not every one has multiple decks available)

What does this have to do with removal-choice?

[Nelis]

The thing is: we may not play 8 gempalms, and even if it were so: gempalm needs creature in play (which we dont have from time to time)

We also have Lackeys that count as 'removal' (as in has to be blocked) for cards like: Confidant, Noble Hierarch, Lavamancer and the singleton token that was left behind for defense.

Against decks that run Tarmogoyf, Fish and Vampire Nighthawk we have more time. Theres no need to remove them asap so we have time to get what we need.

Which leaves the decks with Cats and that's the deck thats hard to handle and where Gempalm usually not enough to hold them off.

I am all for my goblins doing the job for me. I basically believe that bolts aren't needed most times. So only when my little green men aren't enough I might consider them but only in my sideboard.

But I am in a luxurious position because I have access to a load of decks (as long as they don't require BU duals). So if the metagame isn't right for GobsIi can play something else. I own cards to play Aggro Loam, Fish, Gobs, Merf, UWT, Rock, Slivers, *****TreshTresh, BANT (without NOPRO), countertop. But I'm a aggro player at heart so thats what I prefer to play and I suck at playing combo and pure control.

No brag intended btw, well maybe a little bit :-)

Boarding out Bolts was a mistake, thats true.
The thing is: we may not play 8 gempalms, and even if it were so: gempalm needs creature in play (which we dont have from time to time)


What does this have to do with removal-choice?

Nothing really I kinda misread your post on loam and junk. But now that i think about it. I do think that if you need bolts as removal in goblins you're playing the wrong deck in a wrong metagame.