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Thread: [Deck] Goblins

  1. #1761
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    I would like to here more! How many people were at the event? Was there a top 4?

  2. #1762

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    I've been happy with Sparksmith lately. Glad to see someone else likes him too.
    "We are goblinkind, heirs to the mountain empires of chieftains past. Rest is death to us, and arson is our call to war."

  3. #1763
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by fredshredd View Post
    My matches were dredge, burn, stiflenaught, and aggro loam. I beat everything pretty handily, with the exception of loam, which was just awful.

    sparksmith was really good in testing versus delver and stoneforge, but I didn't play any of either. If you expect those decks, I would try it. Its not hateful against goyf, either. Its better then it looks with 8 haste granting lords.

    Tuk tuk scrappers always felt horrible to draw, but I can't think of a better card in its slot for mono red. Unless I start seeing more stoneforge mystics locally, that slot might be more stingscourgers.

    Any thoughts?
    I'm wondering how your aggro loam match was horrible with 4 Leylines and 4 Moons in your SB. Seems like G2&3 should be auto wins.

    I'm wondering how you played 4 rounds and didn't see Delver or SFM.

    Sparksmith actually seems pretty decent. It's always seemed decent, I've just never played it.

    Overall, i think your list looks solid and fun, but I have to believe that it just doesn't have enough removal to deal with Batterskulls and Tarmagoyfs. You can't really deal with a T2 Goyf and your removal is pretty limited.

    I would be interested in reading a report though.

  4. #1764
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    @Fredshredd, what do you do against combo? Punt? 1 Piledriver in the board seems weird. I think if you're gonna main deck 3, why waste a board slot on the other? I'd try Lightning Bolt if I was going to play mono red. I don't mean to sound like a jerk, just speaking from experience.
    Last edited by Big Sexy; 11-30-2011 at 01:59 AM. Reason: wasn't done.

  5. #1765

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Hello again.

    I'll throw a report up this afternoon, i'm currently at work typing on my phone. To answer some quick questions:

    There were 22 people, no cut to top 4, so pretty small. There was plenty of delver and sfm in the room, I don't know how I dodged it all. I would have liked to have played them, as I think mono red goblins has good matchups there.
    the one driver in the board is there to come in when you just need to goldfish quickly, and typically comes in fortuktuk scrappers when the scrappers are bad. Other then that, I just punt to combo pretty hard. I wouldn't part this list in a combo heavy room, its really designed to beat tempo thresh and other mid-rangy decks.
    In regard to beating goyf, my main plan is to just swarm around it with lords and war marshals until sparksmith can just kill it. It actually works pretty well against decks that are threat light like stone forge and thresh.
    Whoo, went longer then I thought. I'll have a round by round report up this afternoon fit anyone still interested.

  6. #1766
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    fredshredd;

    A report would be cool

  7. #1767

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    A quick report:
    We had a smaller showing at our usual Tuesday legacy event, 8 people showed up.
    The decks were:
    Spiral Tide
    RB Goblins (Me)
    2 Bant Stoneforge
    2 RUB Tempo Delver
    1 RUG Tempo Delver (feat. Goyf)
    1 UWr Countertop (feat. maindeck Ensnaring Bridge and Humility)

    I was playing RB Goblins, here was my list:
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Aether Vial
    4 Goblin Piledriver
    3 Gempalm Incinerator
    2 Stingscourger
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Chieftain
    4 Goblin Warchief
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    2 Siege-Gang Commander
    2 Tarfire
    10 Mountain
    4 Wasteland
    3 Badlands
    5 Fetches
    SB:
    3 Perish
    3 Blood Moon
    3 Tormod’s Crypt
    2 Pyrokinesis
    2 Earwig Squad
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    This was a meta chock full of bad matchups, going in I wished I had splashed green instead for Tin-Street Hooligan and Krosan Grip.
    Round 1 vs RUB Delver
    G1: I met his T1 Delver with a Vial. I vial in a lackey and play a Piledriver, but it gets Dazed. On his 3rd turn, he drops a Grim Lavamancer (!!!) and bashes with a flipped delver. I rip a Gempalm Incinerator and toast his Lavamancer, Lackey dropping a Ringleader. Ringleader nets me a Warchief, Matron, and a Piledriver. He plays a land and passes. EOT I Vial in the Piledriver, play a land, vial in warchief, cast matron for another piledriver, and that was all she wrote.
    G2: He mulls to 6, and plays a Lavamancer. I play a Vial, and he Forces. He misses his land drop, and plays another Lavamancer. I Waste his land, and he starts trying to aggro me down with the Lavamancers as we are both bricking on land. I finally draw a 3rd land, and play a Chieftain and pray he misses another land drop as I have a Sharpshooter in hand. He does, and I slam the sharpshooter and he concedes, showing me a hand full of Dazes :P
    Round 2 vs RUG Delver
    Goyf in this deck is really scary for me :/
    G1: I fail to stick any threats, and he beats on me with a goyf.
    G2: I lead with a Lackey, into Siege-Gang, he can’t stabilize and dies.
    G3: I trade my threats with his answers while a Matron pecks him down to 7 life. He plays a goyf and passes. We are both low on cards (both land flooded), him having one card in hand, me having a Piledriver. I rip Chieftain and play them both and attack. He plays a Snapcaster Mage and is forced to trade his Goyf with my Piledriver and his Snapcaster with my Chieftain. Matron keeps on truckin’, gets him to 3 before he bolts it. We spend the next 3-4 turns topdecking like this:
    Me: Warchief, attack?
    Him: Bolt. Draw go.
    Me: Chieftain, attack?
    Him: Snapcaster, trade.
    Me: Land,
    Him: Land.
    I finally draw Siege-Gang, he draws his card, and concedes.
    R3 vs Bant Stoneforge
    G1: I win the die roll, lead with Mountain, Lackey. He plays a Trop and a Heirarch. I Waste, play Vial, and attack, he chump blocks. He plays a Savannah and a Heirarch. I waste and attack, he chumps again. He plays a land and passes, I play a land and finally connect with Lackey, Matroning for Piledriver. I cast the Piledriver and pass. He plays a Stoneforge, grabbing Batterskull. I tick Vial to 3, draw, and vial in Chieftain. I cast Stingscourger on his Stoneforge, and bash for 13. He replays his Stoneforge, getting Jitte, and casts a Goyf. I untap, Tick Vial to 4, Vial in Ringleader netting 4 cards, kill his goyf and stoneforge with incinerators, and that was all she wrote.
    G2: I get a really fast start, disrupting his tempo with stingscourgers. He lands Knight and Goyf to my board of Vial, Piledriver, Warchief, Lackey, and Matron. I pass with Perish in my hand, but no black source. He drops another Knight and passes. I rip a Bandlands, Perish resolves! I nail him for 11 putting him to 4 life, dropping a Matron off the Lackey. Matron tutors up Siege-Gang. He taps out for Wrath of God and wipes my board. I draw, Vial in Siege-Gang, and shoot him twice for exactsies ;)
    I won $50 for first place, and bought my 3rd Badlands. I was super surprised I 3-0’d as the matchups were all in their favour, and I stalled a lot on lands in the first 2 rounds. I drew perfectly in round 3, I had an out to everything my opponent played. I was really happy with Tarfire. It did a great job of killing Snapcaster, Lavamancers, Bob’s and Delvers. I don’t think I would play more than 2 though. I’m pretty happy with my sideboard, but I might try to find a replacement for the Earwig Squads though, as they only really come in against combo decks.

  8. #1768

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Hello.
    Here its my report, see my above post for deck list. Apologies in advance for formatting, once again typing on my phone.

    Round one: dredge
    I go into this nervous, as I know my matchup isn't great, despite my side board leylines. Game one, I win the roll, which is a good start. Mountain, lackey, go, which is even better. He leads with a careful study, pitching a bridge and a stinkweed imp, and passes. My turn, attack with lackey, trigger puts in a war chief, play mogg war marshal, play pile driver, pass. His dredge hits no gas and I roll him over from there. What was I even worried about?
    Sideboard: -4 aether vial, -1 scrappers, +4 leyline, +1 pile driver.
    My opener is mountain, mountain, leyline, leyline, lackey, ringleader, chieftain. Yes, it is nice to be the best player in the world. He plays it out, and firestorms my first couple guys, but he's never really in this one.
    Round 2: burn
    Fun fact: this guy went on to get second, I end up bring his only loss.
    This matchup seems ok game one, and potentially scary after board, depending on whether or not turret have searing blaze, and what sweepers they have access to.
    Game one, i'm on the play. Mountain, lackey, lackey eats a bolt, go. His turn, he chain lightnings me, and passes. I play a piledriver and pass. his turn, he chain lightnings the pile driver, lava spikes me, and passes. And that's how this one goes for a while, he wasted burn on my guys until ringleader and matron close it out once he runs out of gas.
    Sideboard: -1 scrappers, +1 pile driver.
    Game two is what I was afraid of. He bolts my lackey, searing blazes my pile driver, searing blazes my chieftain, and then just stone cold kills me with bolts and fire blast. Searing blaze is a beating.
    Game three, I have yet another mountain, lackey, go, and pray that he kept a slow one. He lava spikes me and passes. I get in with lackey, which is stunning. Lackey gets war chief, cast pile driver, cast war marshal. He plays a mountain, and passes. I play matron for pile driver, cast pile driver, and just kill him. He looks sad, and shows me a hand with nothing but mountains and volcanic fallouts.
    Round 3: stifle naught
    this round is against my buddy, and I know his deck very well, and he knows his goblin matchup inside and out. Its tricky, cuz he plays 4 maindeck torpor orbs, which are a house against me, plus a bunch of counters, dreadnoughts, tombstalkers, etc.
    Game one, he's on the play. I less with aether vital, which he forces. He goes island, go. I go turn two pile driver, he brainstorms, it resolves. His second turn is torpor orb, go. This means I could see dreadnought at any time, and sure makes my matrons look stupid. It doesn't, however, effect my chieftain plan, which is what I proceeded to do. Chieftain, warchief, chieftain come down unmolested and kill him before he sees a dreadnought.
    Sideboard: I thought about this for a minute, and brought in nothing. Scrappers are no good against orb, and anything else would just dilute my deck.
    Game two is just an uninteresting blowout. He gets to two mana, which is all he needs, and just kills all my guys. He board in something stupid like 4 ghastly demise, 2 edict, and 2 dismember, but he never sees any threats. ringleaders chain into ringleaders and matrons to keep me gassed up, and I grind it out.
    Round 4 : aggro loam.
    My only loss, I think I boarded poorly.
    Game one is very satisfying. I less with mountain, lackey, and am rewarded with the lackey slump from my opponent. He plays a fetch and passes. Lackey gets in there and gets me a chieftain. I play a pile driver and pass. He goes taiga, crack the fetch, get a dual, play goyf as a 1/2, and then just gets run over.
    Sideboard: I think he's zoo, so I go -3 pile driver, -1 scrapper, -1 stingscourger, -1 warchief, +2 sparksmith, +4 bloodmoon. the idea is, block with war marshals till I get bloodmoon down, mop up with gpis and sparksmiths, and then grind it out with ringleaders till he runs out of gas. Oops.
    Needless to say, punishing fire+ grove into seismic assault are an unpleasent surprise.
    Game three I reboard and trade the bloodlines for leylines. I would like to play both, but I just don't know what to cut. I don't see a leyline in my 7, nor my six. I keep it anyway, and get shut out by seismic assault and loam.
    Oh well, even with the last round loss I still got first, which is odd, but i'm not complaining. Had a blast with the build, and I definitely plan on running it again. Any feedback, especially with my boarding, would be appreciated.

  9. #1769
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Can somebody fill me as to why nobody runs Goblin Tinkerers or Tin Street Hooligans anymore? Everybody here seems to complain about Batterskull and Stoneforge here. I mean with everybody adding Goblin Cheiftains and still running Incenerators having something like a Tinkerer or a Hooligan in play can't be all that bad? Tinkerers still mess with countertops and Moxes if that fancies anyone.
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  10. #1770
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Citrus-God View Post
    Can somebody fill me as to why nobody runs Goblin Tinkerers or Tin Street Hooligans anymore? Everybody here seems to complain about Batterskull and Stoneforge here. I mean with everybody adding Goblin Cheiftains and still running Incenerators having something like a Tinkerer or a Hooligan in play can't be all that bad? Tinkerers still mess with countertops and Moxes if that fancies anyone.
    Because Tuktuk Scrapper is much better dealing with equippaments than Tinkerer. And if he is good enough, then there is no need to splash green for Tin-Street.
    1 Tuktuk main and 1 SB is enough to deal with the Stoneforge decks.
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  11. #1771
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by ScatmanX View Post
    Because Tuktuk Scrapper is much better dealing with equippaments than Tinkerer. And if he is good enough, then there is no need to splash green for Tin-Street.
    1 Tuktuk main and 1 SB is enough to deal with the Stoneforge decks.
    Tinkerer just isn't very good when you need him to be. When you want to kill Jitte you need it to happen before they use Jitte to take over the board. Tinkerer doesn't let you do that because they can always kill your haste enabler in response to you casting Tinkerer, then kill Tinkerer, or they just kill Tinkerer while it still has summoning sickness. Now if your Tinkerer actually survives to be activated, it won't survive once you use it! It just dies when you use it on anything important, so it's basically just a 3 mana, 2 turn Shatter. The only things it can kill and survive that are actually played now are Moxes and ... umm.... all those other awesome 1cc artifacts.

    Tin Street, like Tinkerer, is vulnerable to many angles of attack that can keep you from using him when you really need him. The most damning fact is that you need to cast him. Considering this deck runs by cheating beats into play, that's a surprisingly shaky foundation. You cannot Vial, Lackey, Instigator, or Wizard him into play. Which means you cannot use his ability as an instant. The fact that he's a 2-drop is surprisingly relevant, since MD Spell Snare is very popular and a great target for Snapcaster. Surprisingly, he's also a good target for Daze, since you'll probably be casting him in the early turns. And don't forget that requiring G makes you more vulnerable to Wasteland and Stifle, and he also puts you in the awkward position of sandbagging your Warchiefs until your TSH hits the stack.

    Tuktuk scrapper is by far the most reliable option available to Goblin players. The fact that he can be cheated into play is hugely relevant. With a Vial at 4 he is instant speed removal. He is playable in Monored. perhaps the most important thing though is that he's very unlikely to ever be countered when you hardcast him. Think about the counterspells that are played now. Force of Will is the only card that Tuktuk has to fear. The Dazes have been used up by the time Tuktuk gets cast, Spell Pierce is a blank, no one plays Counterspell, so Force is the only remaining option, and that probably got used in the first 2 turns anyway. Really, there are only 4 cards in your opponents' MD that will stop him from coming into play. If he gets Stifled, so-be-it. But, once again, Stifle usually isn't a major player T4.

    Oh, and he does 1 damage to your opponent. Not a bad deal. You know the old saying, "You get what you pay for"? Well, with Goblins' artifact hate options, the old saying holds true.

  12. #1772
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Tuktuk is necessary, but I don't think he is the most reliable. TSH, on average, is head and shoulders better in my testing. That said, I have both in my 75. I want to be able to matron for Tuktuk when I need (and can) Vial the answer. Most of the time, TSH is what I matron for. If you aren't playing both, you are doing it wrong.

    I often want artifact removal when I have neither a Vial at 4 nor 4 mana, at which point Tuktuk is moot, and TSH is usually available.


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  13. #1773
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    What you guys think about Faithless looting? Upcoming in Dark Ascension.

    http://static.manatalks.com/images/m...ss-looting.jpg
    Gobbos: Kings of flavortext!

  14. #1774
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBopper View Post
    What you guys think about Faithless looting? Upcoming in Dark Ascension.

    http://static.manatalks.com/images/m...ss-looting.jpg
    Total junk here.
    Why would you want to throw away cards?
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  15. #1775
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBopper View Post
    What you guys think about Faithless looting? Upcoming in Dark Ascension.

    http://static.manatalks.com/images/m...ss-looting.jpg
    It only makes sense in a Past in Flames or Dredge recursion deck. I see no argument for including it in a Goblin deck. Perhaps you confused this with the Past in Flames thread. I kid, I kid. But seriously, that card makes no sense in any classic aggro deck.

  16. #1776
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Increasing card quality is a nice argument for me. It's not like a brainstorm but how many options do we have to see 2 more cards of our library? Finding answers for Jitte/SFM, MoR, Knight and so on or get rid of floated lands. I'd give it a shot...
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  17. #1777
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Hey 4eak,

    I have most the components for a mono-red goblin deck. Would the mono-red still be viable in the current meta?y buddy is planning to borrow it but we both don't have Dual lands or Fetchlands :(

    What's does ideal mono-red current list?
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  18. #1778
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBopper View Post
    What you guys think about Faithless looting? Upcoming in Dark Ascension.

    http://static.manatalks.com/images/m...ss-looting.jpg
    I think it's a strong card. Does not belong at all in Goblins though (if you're in the right thread).

  19. #1779
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBopper View Post
    Increasing card quality is a nice argument for me. It's not like a brainstorm but how many options do we have to see 2 more cards of our library
    We already have a really good one: taking a mulligan

  20. #1780
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    I've played Tuktuk in the past. He's ok. The bottom line is he cost to much. I've been running Goblin Tinkerer, 1 main and 1 in the board. I like Tinkerer better because he cost less and sometimes you get to blow up multiple artifacts. He's better against Affinity. He's better against Landstill, he blows up Mishra's Factory when animated, a problem for Goblins if we don't hit wasteland. He blows up Vial and lives which helps against Merfolk. I played in a big tournament yesterday and I used him against Top. I know what you're thinking how is that good? Well the guy I was playing kept putting it on top of his library and drawing it next turn and casting it. He only had 3 lands and I was using Port to tap a land each turn. So by using Tinkerer multiple times I slowed him down. Being slow against Goblins usually means we win. I'm sure there are examples of Tuktuk being good but to me there's one huge difference. It's the casting cost. I was mana screwed once and needed a Goblin to cast so I could attack and make Piledriver bigger and win. I drew 4 cc Tuktuk and lost. If I rip Tinkerer(or anything 3cc or less) I win. I'm not saying Tuktuk is bad. I like the fact that he blows up an artifact and doesn't die, the only clear advantage over Tinkerer. I think running one of each may be best but I didn't miss Tuktuk yesterday. I did't worry about Batterskull, Jitte or Swords of whatever? I killed every creature they played and smashed face. I took 3rd.

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