Except it is rare that I would mull a hand with Crucible in this deck. Even without a wasteland in your hand, you know that you'll draw into one of the four wasteland and completely blow out opponents when they have to deal with everything else in the deck.Originally Posted by C.P.
@Anusien: Good answer :P Flux might be too slow, but Kataki could be an issue that I think might be played in Zoo/Bant list if metagames become more welcoming for Affinity/Stompy to win games.
@Vesper: I think you're underestimating the power of Flux/Kataki. You can play around it but that's quite a TON of resource unless you have active welder with greaves (to get past summoning sickness etc). Sol lands do help but if your deck is very artifact-dense, it becomes hard to keep up (let's just say Affinity just doesn't have a good chance but Stompy has a shot, although still a bad one at fighting such hate). I think the comforting thing is what Anusien said: artifact hate like Flux/Kataki are a little too narrow to be widely played in sideboards without affecting a lot of other more important matchups
While this deck suffers from the same glass ceiling Dredge has in that will never make it as a dominant deck due to the immense amount of possible sideboard hate, I think it's a deck that's here to stay in the metagame. I definitely think it needs some tuning though, like more land first and foremost. I'd cut the Crucibles and one Mox Diamond for three Mountains, and bump up Lightning Greaves and SDT to threes in place of a Battlesphere (I think you only need singletons of the non-Wurmcoil Engine robots) and a Forgemaster.
This deck makes me feel real dirty sometimes. Dropping a turn 3 Wurmcoil Engine against blue with Goblin Welder out is dirt nasty, possbily my second favorite play in the entire format (first being Plagiarize in response to Brainstorm).
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Absolutely right, Cards like Rod, Kataki(Moss is deranged and played them though) and Flux aren't widely if ever even played. The deck is good.
Yeah, i have been having trouble with my diamonds in my testing too.
I think replacing them with 2 Barbarian rings and 1 mountain could be okay.
Finding basics when you guy gets pathed vs Zoo is tech.
Ring can be a wincon or a way to remove peacekeeper or pridemage when they can't pop it immidiately.
This makes Mox opal a little les good though.
If there is such a thing as too much power, I have not discovered it.” —Volrath
Founding father of Team Moosebite, the team that really bites.
If you want more lands, I'm sure they should be Darksteel Citadels. I also don't think you should be cutting all three diamonds even if you cut any.
She said, "You're broken."
"So is your face." replied the Tarmogoyf.
Null Rod is pretty brutal, but a resolved Metalworker is still a good solution to cards like Energy Flux.
Suddenly, Fluffy realized she wasn't quite like the other bunnies anymore.
-Team R&D-
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I'm glad to see a deck like this on stablished.
I'm running a similar list but just monobrown and whith chalices avoiding all cmc 1. Also i included all is dust as mass removal.
For reference:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Darksteel Citadel
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
1 Steel Hellkite
4 Chalice of the Void
2 All Is Dust
4 Trinisphere
4 Crucible of Worlds
3 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Opal
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Staff of Domination
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Platinum Emperion
4 Great Furnace
1 Banefire
SB: 3 Defense Grid
SB: 2 Jester's Cap
SB: 2 Darksteel Colossus
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Duplicant
SB: 3 Phyrexian Revoker
Thing that i'd like to include: Sculpting steel, Silent arbiter.
Last edited by GoldenCid; 02-10-2011 at 09:34 PM. Reason: Forgot list!
A cogent argument for a 1-of Blightsteel Colossus:
What makes playing against combo in legacy? Even if you are a blue deck there is still a terrifying feeling every time you know the opponent has Tendrils in their deck. Why? Because they can win out of nowhere. One turn where you don't have an answer and you can be dead. Its the same with BSC here. If for even one turn the opponent lets their guard down they can be dead. Not sort of dead after Titan 'geddons them. Actually dead. And that's what makes BSC worth playing. Because he lets you instantly seize on any opportunity your opponent gives. It turns Kuldotha from Tinker to Ad Nauseam. From a probably win to an actual win.
I'm very interested in this deck, however a question of MU analysis to you guys, whats the difference in MUs for the red splash welder + monolith+ key builds vs the mono brown chalice + revoker + trini + crucible builds? Both play Kuldotha for the combo finish and wormcoils. Without the monolith + key, the deck seems to slow down a fair bit but challice + trini helps slow down the opponents just the same. Which do you prefer and why? I'm very tempted to physically buy into this deck.
having tested mono-brown and with red for welder i have come to this:
both are good, its a matter of what g1 matchups you want to be favorable.
g1 the red version is essentially storm combo, if you cant interact you die. That said in my testing, the mono brown ramp with all is dust and such has a MUCH better g1 against aggro decks with disruption (bant, zoo etc).
both have a good merfolk and CB matchup. which is nice.
honestly, play both and just pick the one that matches your playstyle.
to sufficiently answer null rod, you kind of have to play bad removal spells to deal with it (crush, shatter), chalice on one probably kind of helps too in stopping e tutor from going and getting it, or them digging for it via brainstorm, those are the only things i can possibly think of.
also keep in mind that null rod shuts great furnace down, or you can just ignore it and beat face with wurmcoil engine by hitting all your sweet 2x lands.
if they have moat and/or humility and null rod, and you haven't gotten in with a forgemaster activation for hellkite, well, good luck....
decks sweet though. the board can probably be tweaked for metagames too, with you know all artifacts in existence, is pretty awesome.
the only thing that freaks me out is the low land count, but with the amount of acceleration it makes sense, also, the deck seems to favor VERY aggressive mulligans.
It seems like you are vastly overrating the impact of playing or tutoring for bsc as well as ignoring how hard he is to cast. Unless you have haste with greaves or EOT the kuldotha, BSC is not going to 'combo' kill the opponent like tendrills. Also, he only kills if they do not have a creature with greater than 1 power on the table. In addition, he has no ETB or LTB triggers. He also is a nombo with welder.
Spine of Ish Sah and Smokestack are the only two cards I can come up with that answer Null Rod. Everything else taps or requires red mana which we are cut off from after NR resolves. I could potentially see SBing Seal of Cleansing/Primordium as a proactive answer to it if the metagame evolves to that point. The manabase would probably need tinkered with for that though.
Sorry for my ignorance, but how can SDT and key be a "draw engine"? Could anyone answer that?
Tap SDT to draw a card, in response untap it with Key and use the draw ability again, cause the "put on top of deck" clause is part of the resolution, this nets you 2 cards.
But that gives you a card and the SDT, right?
I should have been more precise, yes, with the first resolution you draw a card and the top goes on top of the deck, with the second resolution you redraw your top. So the 2 cards I was talking about are 1 new card and the top.
Yes, one card and the top. But it's 1 colorless mana for one card which isn't exactly a shitty deal (assuming you have the key in play). If you have two Voltaic Keys, you can get 2 cards and the top for 2 colorless mana and so on. And as the deck plays 4 Voltaics, 2 Tops become a quite good card draw engine.
Ok man, thanks for the explanation.
So, with welder active you could exchange top with other artifact in grave? This way you don't have to play another time the top exposing it to a counterspell.
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