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Thread: 2nd at Juniper Lotus event with Turbo-Drazi for a Mox Feb 12, 2011

  1. #41
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    Re: 2nd at Juniper Lotus event with Turbo-Drazi for a Mox Feb 12, 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by K_Rot_T View Post
    Only read this thread but not the original Deck discussion, but i have a question about the cantrips. Did you considered Ancient Stirrings?
    Cons:
    - Can't take Force of Will, Primeval Titan, Repeal (which is really bad and probably the reason you didn't play it) and the draw/cantrip/search spells (which isn't that much of a drawback).
    - might not find anything at all (which is very unlikely but possible after all)
    - you have to reveal the card (for the rare case you don't play the card right away)
    - you can't keep good piles on top of library

    Pros:
    - diggs effectifly 1 card deeper than ponder
    - you know what you get as card Nr. 4 or 5
    - you won't get the cards you just shuffled in (so slightly higher percentage of good cards)
    With the pros you have a higher chance to find Tabernacle and Neelde after Bording and you have a better chance to work with Top than you have with Ponder.
    Ancient Stirrings was the first card my teammate Jeff Carpenter suggested. It ultimately was shot down after about 5 seconds of consideration.

    You gain essentially nothing over ponder. You can't get force or repeal, doesn't pitch to force, and can't stack the top of your deck, all of the important things ponder needs.


    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    I just bought 4 foil vesuva 4 foil glimmerpost and 4 foil cloudpost so when they arrive I'll have a go with this list. How much mana and how much life do you end up making with this deck and at what turn? Is Rolling Earthquake perhaps a better win condition than the Kozilek? It can serve as a big Firespout when it isn't lethal, and from what I read you gain quiet a lot of life from the Glimmerposts, right? Why do you run 2 Emrakul instead of just 1 (is Expedition Map into Eye of Ugin into Emrakul too hard to pull off?).

    Also, Root Maze seems like a very strong turn 1 play to punish fetch and make your comes into play tapped lands more fair. Have you tested it? The drawback of having your candelabra come into play tapped may be too much though.
    You guys... and your not reading the primer.. The only substitute for Kozilek (which isn't really a win condition somuch as it is draw4 for 8-10 mana), would have to be another colorless creature. As of current, the Eldrazi creatures blow the pants off any other colorless creature options per-casting-cost. Root maze is interesting but I can't think of a matchup I would want it in. My troublesome matches are aggro, combo, and waste lock type decks, all of which can play around root maze easily. I would greatly prefer Winter's Orb over Root Maze if I was looking for something to slow my opponents, but this has been considered, and is just bad. The plan isn't to gain life off Glimmerpost. Just because a deck can do something doesn't mean it is essential that it does. This is a normal concept flaw of deck designers. Rich Shay summarized quite well how to evaluate cards when tweaking control decks, which is his personal strength; look at a card and assume you are drawing it while losing and ask yourself it it will help you start winning. All of the cards suggested don't do this.

    Not answering the Emrakul question as I already made a hand-holding post/primer regarding the deck. I'll gladly answer questions of folk who read that and have further questions, but I'm not going to repeat myself for lazy people.

  2. #42

    Re: 2nd at Juniper Lotus event with Turbo-Drazi for a Mox Feb 12, 2011

    Congrates to the best inovator i know even after leaving dead vintage for legacy. Hats off.

    Before I invest any time into this deck I need to ask; after playing in this tourney are you still sure 4 is the optimal number of Candelabra. Also, do you think this deck can function with less???

    it's just sooooo expensive.
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    Re: 2nd at Juniper Lotus event with Turbo-Drazi for a Mox Feb 12, 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by That nice guy View Post
    Congrates to the best inovator i know even after leaving dead vintage for legacy. Hats off.

    Before I invest any time into this deck I need to ask; after playing in this tourney are you still sure 4 is the optimal number of Candelabra. Also, do you think this deck can function with less???

    it's just sooooo expensive.
    If I could run 8 candelabras in this deck I would. Its by far the most dangerous card. The only card that lets you pull off turn 3 wins.

  4. #44
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    Re: 2nd at Juniper Lotus event with Turbo-Drazi for a Mox Feb 12, 2011

    @RockLee

    http://www.tipo1.it/forum/ doesn't link to your thread and the other thread doesn't handle the topic (I read that one). It would help if you could post a direct link to your primer.

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    Re: 2nd at Juniper Lotus event with Turbo-Drazi for a Mox Feb 12, 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Lee View Post
    If I could run 8 candelabras in this deck I would. Its by far the most dangerous card. The only card that lets you pull off turn 3 wins.
    Hey, since you run Green already, have you considered playing some Magus of the Candelabra ? Sure, it got summoning sickness, but it would be extra candelabras nonetheless... nope ?
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    Re: 2nd at Juniper Lotus event with Turbo-Drazi for a Mox Feb 12, 2011

    What about some Hibernation\Wash Out against various Elves and\or Zoo?
    Elves are just too fast, both Natural Order-version and Elfball, and reaching 4 mana for the Hibernation-like actions are much easier than reaching 7 for All Is Dust
    Besides, there's a problem with an opponent's Gaddock Teeg. He basically means no Repeal or All Is Dust for us and all we can do is try to outrace him. I suggest trying Trinket Mage together with Brittle Effigy. And the Mage himself seems just so versatile here!

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    Re: 2nd at Juniper Lotus event with Turbo-Drazi for a Mox Feb 12, 2011

    vs elfball,

    Just drop a chalice at 1 and you'll buy enough time to get there. Same goes for zoo, a chalice on one buys you a lot of time.

    You could play cards like ratched bomb, crawlspace, weekstone/meekstone and random 0/6 walls for 2

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    Re: 2nd at Juniper Lotus event with Turbo-Drazi for a Mox Feb 12, 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    @RockLee

    http://www.tipo1.it/forum/ doesn't link to your thread and the other thread doesn't handle the topic (I read that one). It would help if you could post a direct link to your primer.
    Its at the end. please read.

    Quote Originally Posted by frolll View Post
    Hey, since you run Green already, have you considered playing some Magus of the Candelabra ? Sure, it got summoning sickness, but it would be extra candelabras nonetheless... nope ?
    Candealbra's most important qualities are being an artifact and being immediately usable

    Quote Originally Posted by Estanak View Post
    What about some Hibernation\Wash Out against various Elves and\or Zoo?
    Elves are just too fast, both Natural Order-version and Elfball, and reaching 4 mana for the Hibernation-like actions are much easier than reaching 7 for All Is Dust
    Besides, there's a problem with an opponent's Gaddock Teeg. He basically means no Repeal or All Is Dust for us and all we can do is try to outrace him. I suggest trying Trinket Mage together with Brittle Effigy. And the Mage himself seems just so versatile here!
    Elves is the easiest of your combo matchups. Natural Order doesn't beat you at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by practical joke View Post
    vs elfball,

    Just drop a chalice at 1 and you'll buy enough time to get there. Same goes for zoo, a chalice on one buys you a lot of time.

    You could play cards like ratched bomb, crawlspace, weekstone/meekstone and random 0/6 walls for 2
    Have you even seen the decklist? or read these comments? Posters like these that make me tear my hair out. The only assumption that makes sense is they're trolling.

  9. #49
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    Re: 2nd at Juniper Lotus event with Turbo-Drazi for a Mox Feb 12, 2011

    The fact of the matter is that this deck still sucks. I can luck sack my way to 2nd too if you give me enough time. Please start playing real decks.
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  10. #50
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    Re: 2nd at Juniper Lotus event with Turbo-Drazi for a Mox Feb 12, 2011

    Imo op is trolling the metagame =-)

    Gratz on catching everyone with their pants down.

    I'm always glad to see innovation in this format. I'm hoping that this trend continues because I'm getting
    Tired playing against cbtop.
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  11. #51

    Re: 2nd at Juniper Lotus event with Turbo-Drazi for a Mox Feb 12, 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by That nice guy View Post
    Congrates to the best inovator i know even after leaving dead vintage for legacy. Hats off.

    Before I invest any time into this deck I need to ask; after playing in this tourney are you still sure 4 is the optimal number of Candelabra. Also, do you think this deck can function with less???

    it's just sooooo expensive.
    Novelty is really the only reason I feel the deck made its way up the ranks in this event. With all due respect, while it wasn't necessarily your fault, I think you benefited from a tournament featuring good players but also many new players borrowing their friends' decks and playing sub-standard variations of higher-tier archetypes in addition to side-stepping some of your absolute worst match-ups.

    You ended up never playing Goblins (the front-runner in Legacy at the moment), lucked out against Combo, played ten Blue cards in a deck with Force of Will (which is God-awful), and played against some very, very favorable match-ups - all the way through Top Eight.

    You did a good job, but the deck is far too clunky at the moment and I am flabbergasted it ended up nabbing Power in a 90+ person event.

  12. #52
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    Re: 2nd at Juniper Lotus event with Turbo-Drazi for a Mox Feb 12, 2011

    I agree with Hollywood here. I even built the deck and tested it out, being unsatisfied with simply the report. Results so far: fun, but inconsistent.

    For instance, what happens when you lose the singleton Eye of Ugin to a miser's Wasteland?

    I chalk this result to Beginner's Luck.

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  13. #53

    Re: 2nd at Juniper Lotus event with Turbo-Drazi for a Mox Feb 12, 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by rukcus View Post
    For instance, what happens when you lose the singleton Eye of Ugin to a miser's Wasteland?
    With all due respect sir, if that's the case the card has served its purpose, he would have probably by then grabbed an Eldrazi and ready to smash face. Besides, i would consisder the post-lands as bigger threats here than the Eye of Ugin.

  14. #54
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    Re: 2nd at Juniper Lotus event with Turbo-Drazi for a Mox Feb 12, 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by rukcus View Post
    I agree with Hollywood here. I even built the deck and tested it out, being unsatisfied with simply the report. Results so far: fun, but inconsistent.

    For instance, what happens when you lose the singleton Eye of Ugin to a miser's Wasteland?

    I chalk this result to Beginner's Luck.



    If everyone is disagreeing with you, maybe you're the one that's in the wrong.
    If you had tested you would realize a wasteland on Eye of Ugin doesn't mean the eye is gone even in the slightest. The trolling derails even further.

  15. #55

    Re: 2nd at Juniper Lotus event with Turbo-Drazi for a Mox Feb 12, 2011

    Right. there's Tfk + Eldrazi.

  16. #56

    Re: 2nd at Juniper Lotus event with Turbo-Drazi for a Mox Feb 12, 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    Novelty is really the only reason I feel the deck made its way up the ranks in this event. With all due respect, while it wasn't necessarily your fault, I think you benefited from a tournament featuring good players but also many new players borrowing their friends' decks and playing sub-standard variations of higher-tier archetypes in addition to side-stepping some of your absolute worst match-ups.

    You ended up never playing Goblins (the front-runner in Legacy at the moment), lucked out against Combo, played ten Blue cards in a deck with Force of Will (which is God-awful), and played against some very, very favorable match-ups - all the way through Top Eight.

    You did a good job, but the deck is far too clunky at the moment and I am flabbergasted it ended up nabbing Power in a 90+ person event.
    What would you even consider a good or bad matchup for this deck?
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    Re: 2nd at Juniper Lotus event with Turbo-Drazi for a Mox Feb 12, 2011

    I tested this deck for a while here are conclusions:

    Good MU:
    CB
    Landstill
    Any Middle Tempo without wastelands

    50-50 MU:
    Zoo
    Merfolks
    Sneak Attack
    GBW Rock
    Grindstone/Painter

    Bad MU:
    Combo any kind killing before turn 4
    Goblins
    Aggro Loam
    Any Loam / waste lock
    Dragon Stompy
    Stax
    Dredge

    Worst MU ever met:
    Mind Hive

    Cloudposts/Eldrazi has potential but focused on CA in such slow deck isn't good. I would think about Exploration/Manabond axceleration

  18. #58
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    Re: 2nd at Juniper Lotus event with Turbo-Drazi for a Mox Feb 12, 2011

    This is definitely the most entertaining tournament report thread I've read in a while.

    As far as Trolling is concerned, yeah there are plenty of times when people just don't get what you're doing but they want to express an opinion about it anyway. That's the double-edged sword of posting in an open forum.

    As far as misspelling the store name, who gives a shit? There's a dozen other threads about tournaments at Jupiter Games. It's pretty obvious that it was just a typo and the people that tried to label you as disrespectful because of it are being assholes.

    As far as commenting on the quality of your deck, I like it. It's weird and hard to play, no doubt, and it's certainly not becoming a major player in the metagame anytime soon (how many other decks feature playsets of Antiquities rares?), but it clearly works well enough to slip past a field unprepared to play against it. And sometimes that's all a deck needs to be. You don't have to invent Survival/Vengevine to break the format. you just need to make something new and unique that actually works that opponents will be confused by.

    Thanks for sharing your results.

  19. #59

    Re: 2nd at Juniper Lotus event with Turbo-Drazi for a Mox Feb 12, 2011

    You play emrakul as a 2 of to take infinite turns with eye of ugin you fetch one up, cast it, next turn fetch up the other one, cast it, take another turn, rinse, repeat.

    Ancient stirrings < Repeal. Repeal pitches to FoW which is important to maintain a high blue count. Stirrings does not. And repeal buys time again aggro decks, which is this decks worst MU IMO other than combo unless you have a god hand and they don't disrupt you.

    Interesting deck, but I'll have to see it put up more results before I believe it's a real deck. Right now it has top 8'ed once. If it never top 8's again then I'll chalk this tournament result up to luck on your end.

    Sigh, I can't build this deck because candelabra is hella expensive now...just need 3 more candelabra's/$240 minimum. Which I won't have lol.
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    Re: 2nd at Juniper Lotus event with Turbo-Drazi for a Mox Feb 12, 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Ritual View Post
    Sigh, I can't build this deck because candelabra is hella expensive now...just need 3 more candelabra's/$240 minimum. Which I won't have lol.
    When I first started building this deck months back, candelabras were 25$ apiece. Sofar as I know noone else is using them in decks atm. So take that info for what you want about the rising price of them. Now magiccards.info shows them at 64 with a STD of 15.

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