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Thread: [Deck] Hive Mind

  1. #1

    [Deck] Hive Mind

    I’ve always been the aggro player in Standard. But in legacy, I’ve dealt with combo: ANT, Doomsday, Dream Halls and Belcher. I pushed Emrakul into the UR SnT/Ponder/Sneak Attack shell you now know which before seemed unrealistic. I was also into UGB Deedstill before there was Jace, the Mind Sculptor. I have a Stax pet deck and recently, I tuned a High Tide deck.

    But I’ve also wished somehow there is a combo deck that doesn't just lose to random hate: Counterbalance, Trinisphere, Chalice of the Void, Ethersworn Canonist, Meddling Mage, Gaddock Teeg, Stifle, Spell Pierce, Mindbreak Trap, Extirpate, Krosan Grip, Pyrostatic Pillar, Thorn of Amethyst, Runed Halo, Swords to Plowshares, Zuran Orb, Pithing Needle and Null Rod. One that is resilent to virtually all forms of hate and still thrash Tribal decks consistently at the same time.

    After some brainstorming I arrived to a conclusion that this deck may be the perfect metagame choice. Here’s the deck, my 2k11-tuned Hive Mind, a primer on TheSource:

    Run-of-the-mill
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder

    Bonkers
    4 Show and Tell
    3 Grim Monolith
    4 Hive Mind
    3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

    Compact Tutor Pkg.
    1 Lim-Dul’s Vault
    3 Intuition

    Pacts to Victory!
    1 Slaughter Pact
    2 Summoner’s Pact
    4 Pact of the Titan
    4 Pact of Negation

    Boost
    1 Volcanic Island
    2 Underground Sea
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Scalding Tarn
    3 Flooded Strand
    3 Island

    Sideboard
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    3 Mindbreak Trap
    3 Ravenous Trap
    3 Hydroblast
    2 Dispel

    Turn 2 Kill vs Turn 1 Kill: Grim Monolith vs Lotus Petal
    Lotus Petal opens the possibility of a turn 1 kill with Ancient Tomb + Show and Tell. With Grim Monolith on the other hand, it will always be on turn 2. However, because Grim Monolith nets 3, it can void out an opposing Spell Pierce, Daze or Cursecatcher. It is safe to assume that a turn 2 Island + Show and Tell with Monolith mana protection is the more favorable play in a blue-heavy environment than going for the throat with Lotus Petal.

    Grim Monolith can be a one-sided Show and Tell here, it’s bonkers as it nets you 6 mana on turn 2: Turn 1 Ancient Tomb + Grim Monolith. Turn 2 Island + Hive Mind + Pact for the win.

    1 Lim-Dul’s Vault, 3 Intuition
    As a 1-of, Lim-Dul’s Vault still works wonders. Think of it as your 4th Emrakul, 5th Show and Tell and Hive Mind. It also finds the right Pact to set up the win the following turn. I will say it guarantees a broken play on turn 3. Intuition does the same thing although you'll need your 2-mana lands to do this. Against Wastelands, you may want to sandbag that Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors until you can Show and Tell and plop down an Emrakul or Hive Mind on the board.

    Emrakul vs Progenitus
    Simply put an unanswered Emrakul always spells GG. While a Progenitus on the board usually takes 2 or 3 turns to get there.

    Why play this over Dream Halls, Sneak Attack, or any Show and Tell decks?
    Dream Halls is card disadvantage, you always need a pitch card for Conflux aside from Force of Will.. A sneaked Progenitus doesn’t win the game also on the spot as the deck struggles to find another creature to win. Dream Halls and Sneak Attack are both vulnerable to Krosan Grip. In contrast, once Hive Mind resolves just can just play a Pact without passing priority, this leaves absolutely no room for an opponent to interact.

    It is needless to say you can piggyback an opponent’s Show and Tell and drop Hive Mind. You can then play Pact on your turn followed by a win on his upkeep. With 4 Force of Will and 4 Pact of Negation doubling up as protection and win condition, you have enough firepower to win through enemy disruption.

  2. #2

    Re: Show and Tell — Hive Mind

    1. Decklists

    06/05/11 Thomas Ma Indianapolis-4th Place/Denver-1st Place
    Blue cards
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Intuition

    Bonkers
    4 Show and Tell
    3 Grim Monolith
    4 Hive Mind
    3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

    Pacts
    2 Slaughter Pact
    2 Summoner's Pact
    3 Pact of the Titan
    4 Pact of Negation

    Lands
    2 Volcanic Island
    2 Underground Sea
    3 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Flooded Strand
    3 Island
    60 cards

    Sideboard:
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    4 Mindbreak Trap
    4 Ravenous Trap
    3 Engineered Explosives

    5/28-5/29/11 Bryan Eleyet GP Providence-Finalist
    Blue cards
    3 Force of Will
    3 Mental Misstep
    2 Misdirection
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    3 Intuition

    Bonkers
    4 Show and Tell
    3 Grim Monolith
    4 Hive Mind
    3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

    Pacts
    2 Summoner's Pact
    3 Pact of the Titan
    4 Pact of Negation

    Lands
    2 Volcanic Island
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Polluted Delta
    1 Flooded Strand
    4 Island
    61 cards

    Sideboard:
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    3 Mindbreak Trap
    3 Ravenous Trap
    3 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
    1 Force of Will
    1 Mental Misstep


    2. Card choices
    Quote Originally Posted by akatsuki
    MD
    Mental Misstep, Force of Will- Slows down opponent and protects your combo.

    Misdirection- The popularity of Hymn makes Misdirection a strong metagame choice.

    Pacts- The blue pact helps give a free counter, and can also be used to win with Hive Mind out. The trick is to maintain priority after getting Hive Mind into play, then play a spell, then counter that spell with the blue pact. The red pact is the most difficult to pay for (who gets 5 mana these days?), and has the potential to create a blocker. Out of my 100+ matches, I’ve won a few games bashing with titans after my opponents have sided out their removal. The green pact is also difficult to pay for, but it may be changed for red/black pacts, depending on your meta. It is good against decks like MUD too, that might be able to generate 4R, but not 2GG. The black pact is the easiest to pay for. If your meta doesn’t have much black, this pact is amazing. Sometimes though, slaughter pact has been a dead card in my hand and I’ve wanted other pacts. I can see why they cut the black pact because usually if you’re using the pact for its ability to kill creatures, you’re already on the back foot and unlikely to win. The white pact is too situational and you can’t play it unless there is damage going to occur.

    SB
    Leyline of Sanctity- vs. Burn and decks with 8+ pieces of discard.
    Mindbreak Trap- vs. Storm combo decks
    Ravenous Trap- vs. Dredge/Lands, maybe Reanimator. The traps work really well with Intuitions and are the hardest to play around.
    Llawan- vs. Merfolk

    Other possible choices
    Engineered Plague/Firespout/Pyroclasm- also used for the merfolk matchup, but in experience, they weren’t enough. engineered plague is nullified by lords, and Firespout doesn’t hit mutavault and a smart merfolk player will not over commit. Playing both is overkill, I think Llawan is better. On the other hand, merfolk is now playing dismember, so i’m not sure if Llawan is the right answer either.

    3. Match ups
    Quote Originally Posted by akatsuki
    Merfolk- one of the worst match ups, but still quite winnable. Bryan Eleyet went 3-2 against Merfolk. I think this match up will become far more difficult as players learn to counter the right spells and how to use their pierces/dazes/cursecatchers. Against an expert Merfolk player, I’d put the match up at 65% in their favor. Keep close track of your life total and calculate when to counter lords (eg. how many turns you have left to live if that Lord of Atlantis resolves and can race your Emrakul).

    Bant
    A pretty even matchup, I’d say you’re favored 55%. They don’t have a super fast clock, so just pile up on the counter magic and try to get through.

    NO Bant/RUG
    This is significantly more difficult because of their Progenitus trump. RUG also plays blasts post board, so it makes that matchup quite difficult. Bryan ended up beating Reid Duke in the semis, but I think NO RUG is slightly favored (55%).

    BUG decks
    Another bad matchup, but not unwinnable. Hive Mind just can get some crazy nut draws like turn 2 kill with two counter backup that it can really win anything. I’d put it at 55% in their favor if they don’t have stifle and 60% if they do.

    Junk/Team Italia
    The hand disruption makes game one a toss up, but games two and three you should mull for Leyline (unless you have a good hand that can beat discard).

    Aggro (GW, Affinity, Zoo etc.)
    Aggro in general is easy. Play very tight and figure out when you need to Force of Will their creatures etc. having an intuition to combo out next turn doesn’t help when you’re on low life and they can just Disciple or Fireblast you out of the game. Ancient Tomb stacks the damage up too, so this is definitely not an auto-win. If you play it well though, it should be 65% in your favor.

    MUD
    This can be a scary match up. You need to have the hive mind kill on the spot because they have too many answers. Show and Telling into Forgemaster-Tinker into duplicant or spine for Emrakul really hurts. They also have Karn now, so if you play the Hive Mind with a blue pact expecting to win next turn, don’t be surprised if they drop a land and then resolve Karn. They can also often pay for the red/black pact too, which makes your green pact the best bet.

    Dredge
    Game one is a toss up, but I think Hive Mind is slightly more consistent. Post board should be significantly in your favor due to the traps.

    TES/ANT
    I’d say this is quite even, maybe slightly in our favor. Against TES, the traps sometimes don’t even help and they just silence/chant you.

    Sneak and Show and NO Show
    Very good matchups as your win condition is faster.

    4. Featured Articles
    Feature Article – Show and Tell Time with Hive Mind *2nd*
    Last edited by death; 06-15-2011 at 10:25 AM.

  3. #3
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    Re: Show and Tell — Hive Mind

    This looks hilarious, I'll look for updates. I would love to see Spell Pierce somewhere in the 75, otherwise looks great.
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  4. #4

    Re: Show and Tell — Hive Mind

    nvm ^^
    i still really prefer the DH version.
    btw i top 8 a ~100 player legacy side event at gp paris last week
    finished 5-8th ... lost to reanimators in the quarter finals (ioan on turn 2 G1 & G3 with back up) 4win 0loss 2id @ swiss (all the quarter finals winners split so no "legal" top 8)

    two of my friends were playing a version like yours
    one ended up 5-0 in the 302 players even but then 5-3 drop (9 rounds)
    the other in another ~100 event did 5-2 (7 rounds) not far from top 8.

    they were using a LED/Painter/Gstone/Sanctity Sideboard though.

    btw DH is hardly vulnerable to krosan as it just buys them one turn and DH with Cflux resolved > stifle/daze/reb as you can cast all you pacts as once.
    also since you play one volc why don't you play reb/pyroblast in the SB ?

  5. #5

    Re: Show and Tell — Hive Mind

    The slaughter pact count should be upped, you can actually play that card (and it can be very relevant) and very few decks play black.

  6. #6

    Re: Show and Tell — Hive Mind

    A second Slaughter Pact can hold value against an E. Canonist or a Knight of the Reliquary (inactive), where you can pact before Show and Telling an Emrakul or Hive Mind. Although this means you must have a Sea or fetchland ready and there's no opposing wasteland on the board. If your meta is not Force-heavy, the 4th pact of negation can be replaced with a second slaughter pact.

    Regarding Spell Pierce, I see alot of lists playing it. But against which cards particularly? Against combo – there’s Mindbreak Trap and Leyline of Sanctity. Ditto for burn spells and discard effects. And against hate – well like I've said there's no specific hate that shuts down the deck. It can just switch from one win condition to the other. Eight cantrips and 4 Tutors lets you do this. I see no threat for Spell Pierce to deal with although I won't stop you from playing it.

    The singleton Volcanic Island is not for consistently casting red blasts (Dispels on the side serve this purpose), but for those rare occasions when you may have to pay for your own red Pact and not lose. It's a Wasteland bait at the very least.

    If you will host 2 mana-hungry combos: Dream Halls + Conflux + Hive Mind Mind + Pacts, the deck will mulligan like a nightmare. The odds of drawing the "ideal" hand are against you. Ever think of an opening like: Dream Halls + Pact of the Titan, or Hive Mind + Conflux, or Dream Halls + Conflux with no acceleration or tutor, aren't they terrible? Emrakul solves inconsistency issues, he's like combo rolled into one. Just drop him and swing and win.

  7. #7

    Re: Show and Tell — Hive Mind

    what is the current opinion on SnT/Academy Rector/Cabal Therapy as a back-up route to cheating Hive Mind to play (in the case where Hive Mind is not in your hand)? is it viable or too slow?

  8. #8

    Re: Show and Tell — Hive Mind

    How does Pact of Negation work as win condition?
    This deck wins by playing a pact spell after Hive mind, but when trying to resolve a hive mind, a pact of negation helps you protect it. But if it resolves, how does a PoN help you win if you don't have targets for it?

  9. #9
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    Re: Show and Tell — Hive Mind

    You can counter your other pacts? Not sure on whether the other players copy all spells regardless of whether they are countered or not. Play and comes into play are obviously different.

  10. #10

    Re: Show and Tell — Hive Mind

    Quote Originally Posted by android View Post
    You can counter your other pacts? Not sure on whether the other players copy all spells regardless of whether they are countered or not. Play and comes into play are obviously different.
    If a pact get's countered, you don't have to pay. The pay-mana-or-lose clause is part of it's resolution. If Hive Mind is in play, and you say, play a Slaughter Pact and then Pact of Negation it, you're opponent will still have to pay 2UU and 2B, though.

  11. #11

    Re: Show and Tell — Hive Mind

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenpoe View Post
    If a pact get's countered, you don't have to pay. The pay-mana-or-lose clause is part of it's resolution. If Hive Mind is in play, and you say, play a Slaughter Pact and then Pact of Negation it, you're opponent will still have to pay 2UU and 2B, though.
    I understand that. But the question is: when will pon work as win condition and not only as protection?

  12. #12
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    Re: Show and Tell — Hive Mind

    Can't your opponent counter his own Slaughter Pact then?

  13. #13

    Re: Show and Tell — Hive Mind

    Quote Originally Posted by mercc View Post
    I understand that. But the question is: when will pon work as win condition and not only as protection?
    As far as I know it can only be a win condition if your opponent plays something after Hive Mind or you have a 2nd spell in hand that you can counter with your own pact of negation.
    Because of this, Pact of the titan (or the green or white one) will always be the primary win condition, since it doesn't need a target.
    Slaughter Pact and Pact of Negation have the obvious other roles in this deck, but can occasionally be a win condition.

  14. #14
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    Re: Show and Tell — Hive Mind

    I played this deck at GP Columbus, finishing 6-3 (I lost round 9 to Belcher after comboing out on turn 1 of game 3... on the play with Duress). Some advice for you:

    1. You should be playing a 3/1 split of Lim-Dul/Intuition the other way. Lim-Dul's Vault is the most broken tutor in the format (in a deck like this, it's even better than Mystical). It's a multi-card Vampiric Tutor for as many life as you want to pay. Often times, you want to be searching for multiple cards at once which makes this better than Intuition.

    2. We originally had Ponder in the deck, and replaced it with Top. This isn't a turn 1/ turn 2 deck, and Top allows you to effectively outdraw your opponent in the midgame.

    3. We replaced Force of Will with Thoughtseize. Thoughtseize is much better against the combo decks (only Belcher will combo out turn 1 on the play in reality), and it gives you valuable information about when to go off.

    4. The other major maindeck difference was the removal of Slaughter/Summoning Pact for 3 Duresses. You don't need Slaughter Pact game 1 against any deck except Dredge (only if they get Iona).

    5. A card that you may want to consider for your sideboard is Boseiju. It lets you force through your Show and Tell without having to worry about your opponent's deck. It was absolutely amazing at the GP.

    6. Your tribal matchups aren't as good as you think. You are a serious underdog to Merfolk (especially post-board), and you also lose to landfall Zoo that plays Price of Progress (remember that Hive Mind copies their spells also, so I hope you like taking 12 off your manabase on the upkeep you were supposed to win.) We managed to solve this problem by overloading on cheap removal (Ghastly Demise is really good).

    7. Yes, you will lose to Stifle... no matter what you do. They can Stifle their triggered ability during upkeep (but you can't use your copy to counter your upkeep cost as it isn't on the stack), and they can use your Hive Mind against you if you decide to Force. Remember that using Pact of Negation on their upkeep doesn't require them to pay that turn.

    @keys: If your opponent tries to Force their copy of a Pact, you also get a copy of their Force which you can use to counter their Force.
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  15. #15

    Re: Show and Tell — Hive Mind

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenpoe View Post
    If a pact get's countered, you don't have to pay. The pay-mana-or-lose clause is part of it's resolution. If Hive Mind is in play, and you say, play a Slaughter Pact and then Pact of Negation it, you're opponent will still have to pay 2UU and 2B, though.
    Once you cast a Pact of Negation, your opponent gets a copy on the stack, he may use it and target his copy of Slaughter Pact to just pay 3UU in order not to lose. That is obviously not a wise play against mono blue.

    Quote Originally Posted by niknight View Post
    You should be playing a 3/1 split of Lim-Dul/Intuition the other way. Lim-Dul's Vault is the most broken tutor in the format (in a deck like this, it's even better than Mystical).
    The 3/1 split of Intuition/Lim-Dul's Vault is not wrong. The manabase supports that configuration. With 2-mana lands, Intuitions are as fast as Lim-Dul's Vaults. If you are going to rely on LDV, I don't think you can build a stable (and fast) manabase in this kind of meta. You will sacrifice the speed 2-mana lands provide in favor of more black source. Having a single Island to play around and dropping a 2-mana land for Show and Tell/Intuition/Monolith seems more sound than losing life with LDV and speed once your lands get wasted.
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  16. #16
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    Re: Show and Tell — Hive Mind

    Quote Originally Posted by death View Post
    Once you cast a Pact of Negation, your opponent gets a copy on the stack, he may use it and target his copy of Slaughter Pact to just pay 3UU in order not to lose. That is obviously not a wise play against mono blue.
    Just respond to the Hive Mind trigger. Cast Slaughter Pact -> Hive Mind triggers -> maintain priority and cast Pact of Negation targeting your own Slaughter Pact. They will get their copy of PoN first and will only have the original PoN and Slaughter Pact as targets.
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  17. #17

    Re: Show and Tell — Hive Mind

    Quote Originally Posted by whienot View Post
    Just respond to the Hive Mind trigger. Cast Slaughter Pact -> Hive Mind triggers -> maintain priority and cast Pact of Negation targeting your own Slaughter Pact. They will get their copy of PoN first and will only have the original PoN and Slaughter Pact as targets.
    In Amsterdam Extended I always let the trigger resolve then waited for their first Pact copy to resolve first.

    I've got a more combo oriented build of this in an article that I should send out soon, but I'll definitely mention this list and try it out a bit. The big things I noticed were I agree on points 1 and 3 niknight made.

  18. #18

    Re: Show and Tell — Hive Mind

    as it s been said the thoughtseize really help and LDV is the best tutor for this deck (i even replaced MT with it before it was banned).

    the only out against stifle is playing the dream halls version to cast alll your pacts and/or casting amnesia/head games before going off but it's a bit janky.

    with my list i hardly ever don't make top 8
    last one i used was :
    4-2 and hell yeah top ... 12 in a 52 men tour
    losing to NLThresh (nothing i could have done) and SpiralTide (lost du to missplaying a LOT, but oh well...mulligan to 4 in g3 on the draw, i can go T3 but he ll got at his...)
    #Main
    3 Hive Mind
    3 Dream Halls
    4 Conflux
    4 Fow
    3 Thoughtseize
    4 LDV
    3 SDT
    4 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Pact Of Titan
    1 Summoner's Pact
    1 Slaughter Pact
    2 Pact Of Negation
    4 S&T
    #Land
    4 island
    1 Swamp
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Flooded Strand
    2 Usea
    2 AT
    3 CoT
    #SB
    4 leyline of sanctity
    1 Hurkyll recall
    1 Pact Of negation
    3 extirpate
    1 relic of progenitus
    1 perish
    1 natures ruins
    1 Slaughter Pact
    2 Diabolic Edict

    i really want to make room the the aforementioned Boseiju in the SB as it s you best way againt tempo/control deck, and it also improve a lot your wost MU aka merfolk.
    about the assumption about not needing Slaughter pact in the first game i am not sold. I mean i guess it's not mandatory i guess but yet can save some "lost" G1.
    i d also like to add that extirpate is such a underestimated card, it s a BOMB against combo/dredge and some other MU in G2/3. I d even go back to 4.
    About dispel, i use to play it in my very first list (before the MT ban) but most of the time i wish i had a spell pierce/duress.
    Ethersworn Canonist, Meddling Mage CAN be annoying especially Canonist in a G&T/Maverisck shell
    vial it in resp of casting S&T / Play it with S&T, you win a turn and cast Krosan/activate Qasali for the win.

    Quote Originally Posted by mercc View Post
    I understand that. But the question is: when will pon work as win condition and not only as protection?
    i won many games simply by
    Cast SnT/Hive Mind
    cast top/Ponder/Bstorm/thoughseize
    Pact It for the win
    Last edited by ryO!; 04-03-2011 at 06:19 PM.

  19. #19

    Re: Show and Tell — Hive Mind

    Grats to kylezj for making t3 with my 75 (almost) -1 Pact of the Titan +1 Slaughter Pact


    Decklist: Constructed Legacy Event #2176506 on 03/21/2011 in Daily Events
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  20. #20

    Re: Show and Tell — Hive Mind

    Congrats to kylezj again for going 4-0 twice in the dailies (same list) and for the multiple 3-1s lol.



    /hype

    edit: I've seen a handful of Hive Mind lists around, but I stand by my build (3 Emrakul 3 Monolith 3 Intuition 1 Lim-Dul's Vault 4 Tomb 2 City) as the most superior.
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