Thanks, the deck has been running well, I have been entertaining the idea of running some kind of hand disruption in the deck possibly. I also wouldn't mind looking for something better in sb against merfolk and tempo, Those seem to be the decks only sub par matchups.
Unless you are keeping sketchy hands, this deck should crush Merfolk with no mercy. Against tempo, you aren't utilizing the 2 Dispels from my sideboard ;-)
Originally Posted by GoblinSettler
Hooray, people are playing Hivemind now! I haven't been paying attention to Legacy for the past 5 months or so, but I remember playing a somewhat similar Dreamhalls/Hivemind deck back then, and it was decent to strong against everything except reanimator and maybe 40% against fish, depending on the build. I remember discussing that deck extensively with ryo! before.
Some comments:
- Pact of Negation is a win condition if you have any spare spell in hand. I played Hivemind with Top, and often i'd draw from my top during my upkeep so i can cast it for pact.
- If you're willing to fudge with the manabase a bit, then Duress or Thoughtseize are really good. In my experience, they've been better than FoW in most matchups except combo and (sometimes) countertop. They are really good against merfolk/thresh so you know how to play around stifle/daze effects when you combo off. You may also consider cutting 1 PoN for discard, if you've been finding yourself with too many extra PoN in matchups where they are useless. The necessity for FoW against combo is also questionable; most of the time, they're going to play around it anyways when they see you running blue, so snatching a card with discard can give you an edge.
- The usefulness of FoW/PoN/Discard varies depending on the metagame. I've found PoN to be amazing against fish and other blue based aggro-control, because it's so amazing in multiples, whereas the second FoW can want for a blue card. Of course, PoN is useless for forcing through an Emrakul, which is an equally viable strategy against Merfolk.
- I second ryo!'s comment about LDV being good in DreamPact, but I don't think they'd be that good in this deck, considering the minimal amount of black sources. At least, the mana base will need to be retooled a bit to accommodate more black spells. The best part about LDV is the fact that it can find you two pieces (combo pieces and/or protection) if you have another turn to set up, or if you are running Tops. It's worth testing.
- If you have time to set up, Top is amazing. It's good against any deck that runs discard, and it can find you multiple pieces through the course of a more drawn out game. It also has excellent synergy with LDV, turning an EOT LDV into 2 cards. With this, set up, I'm more willing to Vault for the best combination of cards if i know i'm going to win next turn.
- The deck I ran had a variety of 1 mana removal spells to board in for PoN against any non-blue aggro deck. I think we ran a combination of Chain of Vapor, Innocent Blood, and Ghastly Demise. I think the variety was due to the additional utility against reanimator and other Emrakul/Progenitus based decks back then. Even something like Chain of Vapor is pretty useful if it buys you a turns worth of tempo to find your combo. For example, Goblins with a first turn Lackey has a fair chance to race, but otherwise just straight up loses; even delaying that turn 1 lackey with a Chain of Vapor is enough to throw their tempo off. We built our version to be resilient against blue decks, while being closer to 50-60% against aggro pre-board, hence the removal spells in the SB.
- Have you considered running Chalice yourself? There's obvious problems with the cantrips, but it seems like this version of the deck can really abuse it against combo.
Just going by my experience with Dream Halls, the unbanning of Grim Monolith makes a pure Hivemind deck seem stronger. I can vouch for all the the advantages of playing this type of combo deck against control decks and hate. The biggest problem with Dreamhalls was getting UU to hardcast it when you really wanted to avoid wastelands and/or cast other spells (brainstorm, top, spell pierce, duress) in the same turn.
I don't mean to change the topic of discussion to a different deck, but I'd like to defend the Dreamhalls/Hivemind deck a bit by pointing out the advantage in not having to run a lot of extraneous pacts, so even considering the additional Conflux the deck still gets a few more slots. Conflux also solves the problem of multiple Cursecatcher, Daze, and Stifle ruining your day; you simply make them discard all their outs and then overwhelm them with pacts. It runs a lot smoother than it looks thanks to Vault, which really sets you up well.
I changed the dispells to spell pierces in sideboard, They seem to be working, and Yea agaiinst tempo, i have been getting bad draws. The thing with fish, is they have all these counters and stuff and then cursecatcher is just the nuts for them, as they can counter their copy of a pact with it, so it can be annoying. If you were going to bring tops in what would you cut? What do you think death about the idea of tops instead of ponders?
The way I understand it is that, once they cast a counter targeting a copy of your pact, you get a copy of the counter too that can target the counter, your copy should resolve first so their copy of pact doesn't get countered and resolves.
Personally, I don't like tops in combo decks (except in Doomsday) because it's slow. You basically waste a turn to cast it, waste 1 mana to use it and it doesn't draw a card unless you put it back on top of the library (makes no sense). By then you would have to waste another turn for the dead draw and mana to recast it. The deck plays well with 8 cantrips and 4 real tutors which actually puts the pieces you want to your hand by turn 2. Hive Mind is designed to beat any deck by turn 2-3, it would lose if it wastes time doing it.
With cursecatcher, all they do is sac it and counter there own spell, since its a creature, they just counter their copy of the pact, and pass the turn back and you have to pay for yours then.
Daze also does the same thing if they have 1 mana open. I think the best plan against Merfolk is to just get Emrakul as fast as possible if you see 1 or more Cursecatchers.
I played against this deck mtgo and I have to say it was very impressive. It is very resiliant and emrakul adds a extra nice out to it.
Both times I t1 discarded hivemind but my opponent (sorry don't remember name) was able to recover quick and finish once with hivemind and once with emrakul.
Hey can you give some tips on what types of hands to keep? I'm thinking about playing this deck. I've been testing it online and I've been fairly successful.
Also, what are the problem cards you have to play around? I was hit pretty hard by stifle and cotv at 0.
I was thinking about potentially siding in Boseiju or Hurkyl's Recall, opinions?
Finally, what kinds of hands do you keep? Anything that gets you one part of the combo (ie, show and tell + pacts, or hive mind + grim monolith, or something?)
Stifle is a pain, but Emrakul sidesteps it. You shouldn't lose to CotV at 0. Your pact gets countered but their copy sticks once Hive Mind's ability triggers so they still have to pay the upkeep cost or die.
You usually want to keep a hand with a win condition: Hive Mind + Monolith or SnT OR Emrakul + SnT or tutor. You can draw/cantrip/tutor a pact or acceleration and win once you have these pieces.
If you want Boseiju, it's your call but it will only get hit by a Wasteland. This deck already has 8 free counters to protect the combo, I wouldn't want a land that does nothing against non-blue decks.
I'm a little confused about using Pacts as win conditions in this deck. Could regular Hive Mind players tell me if I'm right in the following scenario?
I cast Hive Mind in my main phase.
It resolves.
I retain priority.
I then cast Slaughter Pact. I retain priority.
The stack looks like:
TOP
Slaughter Pact
BOTTOM
Hive Mind triggers. I retain priority. The stack looks like:
TOP
Hive Mind trigger
Slaughter Pact
BOTTOM
I then case Pact of Negation targeting my Slaughter Pact. I retain priority. The stack looks like:
TOP
My Pact of Negation (targeting My Slaughter Pact)
Hive Mind trigger
My Slaughter Pact
BOTTOM
Hive Mind triggers. I retain priority. I retain priority. The stack looks like:
TOP
Hive Mind trigger
My Pact of Negation (targeting My Slaughter Pact)
Hive Mind trigger
My Slaughter Pact
BOTTOM
I then pass priority. Hive Mind trigger resolves. The stack looks like:
TOP
Opponent's Pact of Negation (targeting for example my Pact of Negation)
My Pact of Negation (targeting My Slaughter Pact)
Hive Mind trigger
My Slaughter Pact
BOTTOM
Opponent's Pact of Negation (targeting My Pact of Negation) resolves. The stack looks like:
TOP
Hive Mind trigger
My Slaughter Pact
BOTTOM
Hive Mind trigger resolves. The stack looks like:
TOP
Opponent's Slaughter Pact
My Slaughter Pact
BOTTOM
Opponent's Slaughter Pact resolves. The stack looks like:
TOP
My Slaughter Pact
BOTTOM
My Slaughter Pact resolves, stack is empty.
Opponent has to pay 2B next upkeep or lose. I have to pay 2B next upkeep or lose.
Is this correct?
this deck sucks...
I was playing eva green yesterday on Cockatrice. A person by the screen name "Bug" played this deck. After I won 2-1, he said
"whatever, I guess this deck cannot beat a bad discard deck that cannot beat anyone".
Well if he targeted your PoN, he will have to pay 2B + 3UU or lose before you worry about paying for Slaughter Pact on your upkeep.
Nope :)
You cast your Slaughter Pact (or better yet Pact of the Titan...), let your opponent's trigger resolve BEFORE playing your Pact of Negation (but still in response to your initial Pact). That way your opponent can only PoN either of your Pacts (since a counter can't target itself). Now your opponent has 2 upkeep triggers requiring UU3 and B2 or some combination of all that mana and 1-2 Stifles :)
TL,DR: if you think Saito is ok, check your moral compass. It may be broken. - Spikey Mikey, amen brother
WE know what the price of progress is (often 8-10 life). - Cait Sith
A casual stasis deck? You must not really like your friends. Do you play it before or after you pull the wings off of flys and microwave the neighbor's cat? - EwokSlayer
Do you ever side out Emrakul? Such as against decks with KOTR and Karakas?
Actually, just a general question on siding. What do you take out? Ponders? Grim Monoliths?
You never side out ponder in any matchup..At least I dont. Side out the emrakuls usually against karakas/ and or decks with edicts and such.
SB
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Ravenous Trap
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Spell Pierce
3 Engineered Plague
Kyle, can you give a detailed description of how you sideboard then? So far, I'm 15-5 with the deck and I just want to say it's super powerful.
This is what I've been doing:
vs. Burn/Discard
+4 Leylines
vs. Dredge
+3 Ravenous Trap
vs. ANT/TES/High Tide
+3 Mindbreak Trap
vs. Control with counters
+2 Spell Pierce
vs. Merfolk/Goblins/Elves/GW with Humans
+3 EP
First I side out the useless Pacts, and then usually Grim Monolith. What gets cut next? Lim-Dul's Vault/Intuition? Emrakul?
There is a distinctly non-zero chance I play this deck in Providence. It gets significantly better simply because MM is likely to replace some amount of Dazes and Stifles across the field.
What do you guys think about Chalice of the Void in the SB?
Could play Impulses instead to replace Brainstorm/Ponder. I feel like it's weak, but Stifle + Spell Pierce (Countering their own pacts) + REBs are really annoying. Innocent Blood too.
I don't think it's a good idea tbh since Brainstorm is so important. But what do we do then?
Perhaps the answer is discard. Thoughtseize and Duress in the board? I don't see what to cut though.
Also, what about pesky artifacts like Trinisphere and Canonist? Maybe have Hurkyl's Recall? Again, I don't know what to take out. I'm planning on playing this in a big tournament next week so any help would be appreciated. :)
extirpate is also a big problem. too bad a lot of the last scg open had a ton of combo hate with cards like stifle and extirpate :(
can't wait for gitaxian probe and mental misstep!
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