Daretti Goblin Welder (Da-Welder)

[apple713]

Daretti is basically 2 cards in 1
+2 faithless looting
-2 goblin welder
-10 really hard to loose...

Why there is potential

Previously the problem with goblin welder is that it dies to everything, Daretti does not. Additionally, when used in conjunction with goblin welder, it creates consistency welder decks never had before.

The rule of 8: when you have 2 cards that both do very powerful things along the same lines, consistency can be established and a deck can then be formed. Without 8 cards in the deck, the odds of getting them are low enough that consistency becomes an issue. An examples of when decks become amazing is show and tell. when show and tell or sneak attack are used alone the deck would not be consistent enough, but together since they both allow to abuse big creatures, a deck can now be focused around that.


Sample deck lists

I have included many different types to spur ideas and generate conversation


Main deck - Bruiser's current Version
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Talisman of Impulse
3 Gruul Signet

4 Daretti, Scrap Savant
3 Punishing Fire
4 Choke
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Sylvan Library
2 Tangle Wire
3 Goblin Welder
1 Goblin Matron
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Batterskull
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Possessed Portal
1 Contagion Engine

Sideboard
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Krosan Grip
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon / Tormod's Crypt
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Sun Droplet
2 Sudden Shock
1 Cursed Totem
1 Raking Canopy
1 Blood Moon
1 Serrated Arrows / Aether Flash



Another List posted by Cire here

slightly modified version of that list

4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
3 Great Furnace
3 Seat of the Synod
1 Mountain
1 Island

4 Mox Diamond
3 Grim Monolith

4 Goblin Welder
4 Daretti
2 Dack Fayden

2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Liquid Metal Coating
1 Contagion Engine

3 Tangle Wire
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void


Dragon Stompy Shell

19 CREATURES
4 Magus of the Moon
4 goblin welder
3 Lodestone Golem
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Sundering Titan


21 OTHER SPELLS
4 Chrome Mox
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Blood Moon
4 Diretti, scrap savant
1 Contagion Engine
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

20 LANDS
4 Mountain
4 Great Furnace
4 cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

SIDEBOARD
1 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Shattering Spree
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Boil
2 Anarchy


R/W Batterskull Beats by Jables237

Critters
4x batterskull
4x mother of runes
4x goblin welder
4x stoneforge mystic
4x Masterwork of Ingenuity

Removal
3x lightning bolt
4x swords to plowshares

Other
4x faithless looting
3x Daretti
4x tangle wire

Lands
2x ancient den
4x arid mesa
3x great furnace
2x mountain
3x plains
4x plateau
2x scalding tarn
2x flooded strand


R/W Welder Stax by MoT_Pestilence

Spells: 36
4 mox diamond
3 trinisphere
4 smokestack
4 goblin welder
4 ensnaring bridge
4 armageddon
2 Bottled Cloister
3 crucible of worlds
4 chalice of the void
1 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Daretti, Scrap Savant

Lands: 24
3 wasteland
2 flagstones of Trokair
4 city of traitors
4 ancient tomb
4 cavern of souls
1 karakas
1 plains
4 Plataeu
1 great furnace

Legacy Tools & Tubbies by bruiser

Planeswalkers [06]
4 Daretti, Scrap Savant
2 Garruk Relentless
Instants [03]
3 Punishing Fire

Bombs [01]
1 Contagion Engine

Creatures [12]
3 Fauna Shaman
3 Goblin Welder
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Platinum Angel
1 Reclamation Sage

Disruption [10]
4 Tangle Wire
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Ensnaring Bridge

Enchantments [02]
2 Sylvan Library

Mana Rocks [05]
3 Talisman of Impulse
2 Gruul Signet

Land [21]
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Taiga
1 Mountain
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

Discussion

I would really like to start gathering ideas for this deck whether it is prison based, combo based, or agree based it does not matter to me. The list about is just something I threw together for spur discussion.

Cards to consider

Artifacts
grim monolith
trinisphere
chalice of the void
Contagion Engine
kuldotha forgemaster
liquimetal coating
uba mask
ensnaring bridge
sun droplet
Possessed Portal
Duplicant
Triskelavus
Spine of Ish Sah
Nevyniral's Disk
Sundering Titan
Myr Battlesphere
Smokestack
Inkwell Leviathan
Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Steel Hellkite
Phyrexian Metamorph
Mindslaver
Wurmcoil Engine
Bosh Iron Golem
Platinum Emperion
Platinum Angel
Darksteel Forge
ratchet bomb

Red
Feldon of the Third Path
faithless looting
trash for treasure
gamble
magus of the moon
Blood moon

Blue
show and tell
dack fayden
careful study
arcum dragsson

Black
tezzerett, agent of bolas
baleful strix
entomb


Questions

What strategy to adopt?
aggro
control
combo

[rufus]

My inclination is that Trash for Treasure and Faithless Looting/Careful Study are more similar to Daretti than Goblin Welder, so with that rule of 8, you might want to add those to your list of cards to consider.

[Gheizen64]

The deck name should really be Major Carcetti tbh.

Also contagion Engine is pretty good imho. It's 6 mana but kill TNN, murder elves, kill all pyro elementals, as well as most of D&T creatures. It's not as good vs other things, but as a singleton, and with the added utility of the double proliferate for your Planeswalkers and Tangle wire, i'd run it.

[apple713]

The deck name should really be Major Carcetti tbh.

Also contagion Engine is pretty good imho. It's 6 mana but kill TNN, murder elves, kill all pyro elementals, as well as most of D&T creatures. It's not as good vs other things, but as a singleton, and with the added utility of the double proliferate for your Planeswalkers and Tangle wire, i'd run it.

i think thats an excellent suggestion.

I'll add it to the list and consider it in further drafts of the deck.

[Undomian]

Have you considered Grim Monolith at all for this? It helps to power out those huge threats manually and can be recycled into those same threats (or looted away) later after they've been removed.

[Zupponn]

I really want to add 8Moons here.

[rufus]

I really want to add 8Moons here.

Yeah, I'd want to slot Daretti into a Dragon Stompy shell rather than this UR stuff.

[apple713]

Yeah, I'd want to slot Daretti into a Dragon Stompy shell rather than this UR stuff.

daretti alone or with welder?

[bruizar]

I'm also going to tinker with this a lot. I will make a mono-R list in addition to helping out with this list.

Tangle Wire, Contagion Engine, Grim Monolith are necessary imo.

Right now your blue count is too low to support Force of Will. I think you should reduce it to 3 and/or add blue spells if you want to support this card. That said, I personally like Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm much more. Flusterstorm is a necessary counter if you are playing Chalice of the Void for 1 because it goes through it.

[apple713]

I'm also going to tinker with this a lot. I will make a mono-R list in addition to helping out with this list.

Tangle Wire, Contagion Engine, Grim Monolith are necessary imo.

Right now your blue count is too low to support Force of Will. I think you should reduce it to 3 and/or add blue spells if you want to support this card. That said, I personally like Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm much more. Flusterstorm is a necessary counter if you are playing Chalice of the Void for 1 because it goes through it.

Good observations.

I also updated the main post with a Pseudo dragon stomp shell. Lodestone golems were just thrown in there with little thought

[GenghisTom]

I've always loved Welder but always failed to construct a deck consistent enough.
I've tried Trash for Treasure as welders 5-8, but that card is just a bad all in strategy and you might as well splash black from Reanimate. But then you're just playing a worse version of Reanimator, which dominated the all-in recursion strategy archtype.

As you mentioned, now that we have 8 *playable* welders it's time to return to the drawing board.
I don't think the all-in strategy is where this deck should be. First, Welder requires for you to untap with it meaning it can't be killed and it acts a turn later than Reanimate would. Daretti is just too slow at 4 mana to support an all-in strategy, though it does have 'haste'.

The advantage of these two cards is then, the fact that their ability is reusable.
For this reason I think the control shell is a better one.
Something along the lines of Vintage Slaver Control.

I like Liquimetal Coating for synergy with Dack Fayden, and guaranteeing you'll have a welder target. As Undomian mentioned, Grim monolith is almost a must to increase the speed of the deck while providing a back up plan around graveyard hate where you can just cast your big guys.

I don't think this deck should have the blue counter suite - we're countering two things mostly -> 1). removal for welder and 2). combo pieces (storm, glimpse, S&T, etc)
While being able to counter these is good, this deck really likes playing things on its own turn and the card disadvantage from FoW is pretty rough (not to mention running FoW requires us to up the blue card count and this deck needs red cards and artifact mostly).
Even Intuition, while a great tutor, is better replaced by Gamble.
Dack should be the only blue card imo.
Pyroblast and REB are good cards to counter opponent's counterspells as well as S&T. Contagion Engine ruins Elves, and Trinisphere/Mind Slaver wreck combo.


How to run control without Blue?
Blood Moon effects
Tangle Wire
Trinisphere
REB/Pyroblast (we can always discard them with looting effects game 1 against non blue decks)

Kill with Mind Slaver lock/Wurmcoil/Myr Battlesphere
Sundering Titan is okay, but sometimes a bit too cute, and it's a real wet blanket when he gets swords'ed and you're just sitting there wishing you had Myr Battlesphere instead.

[apple713]

I've always loved Welder but always failed to construct a deck consistent enough.
I've tried Trash for Treasure as welders 5-8, but that card is just a bad all in strategy and you might as well splash black from Reanimate. But then you're just playing a worse version of Reanimator, which dominated the all-in recursion strategy archtype.

As you mentioned, now that we have 8 *playable* welders it's time to return to the drawing board.
I don't think the all-in strategy is where this deck should be. First, Welder requires for you to untap with it meaning it can't be killed and it acts a turn later than Reanimate would. Daretti is just too slow at 4 mana to support an all-in strategy, though it does have 'haste'.

The advantage of these two cards is then, the fact that their ability is reusable.
For this reason I think the control shell is a better one.
Something along the lines of Vintage Slaver Control.

I like Liquimetal Coating for synergy with Dack Fayden, and guaranteeing you'll have a welder target. As Undomian mentioned, Grim monolith is almost a must to increase the speed of the deck while providing a back up plan around graveyard hate where you can just cast your big guys.

I don't think this deck should have the blue counter suite - we're countering two things mostly -> 1). removal for welder and 2). combo pieces (storm, glimpse, S&T, etc)
While being able to counter these is good, this deck really likes playing things on its own turn and the card disadvantage from FoW is pretty rough (not to mention running FoW requires us to up the blue card count and this deck needs red cards and artifact mostly).
Even Intuition, while a great tutor, is better replaced by Gamble.
Dack should be the only blue card imo.
Pyroblast and REB are good cards to counter opponent's counterspells as well as S&T. Contagion Engine ruins Elves, and Trinisphere/Mind Slaver wreck combo.


How to run control without Blue?
Blood Moon effects
Tangle Wire
Trinisphere
REB/Pyroblast (we can always discard them with looting effects game 1 against non blue decks)

Kill with Mind Slaver lock/Wurmcoil/Myr Battlesphere
Sundering Titan is okay, but sometimes a bit too cute, and it's a real wet blanket when he gets swords'ed and you're just sitting there wishing you had Myr Battlesphere instead.

i really like what you are saying here, can you construct a list?

Blue is probably better if you are trying to do some sort of all in combo, where you can use intuition to dump the pieces in the graveyard. It's along the same control type but just going about it a different way.

probably the numbers i would assign to each

liquimetal coating is a 2 of
grim monolith a 3-4 of
red blast / pyroblast 4-6
moon effects 6-7
trinisphere 3 of 1 SB
dack Fayden 2-3
wurmcoil engine 2-3

[bruizar]

I think you also really need Spine of Ish Sah. Spine fuels your weld, then it returns to your hand so it fuels your loot.

This card you can perfectly cycle with Daretti.

Loot, discard artifact + Spine of Ish-Sah
weld, sacrifice artifact, return Spine of Ish-Sah
weld, sacrifice Spine of Ish Sah, return artifact to play (sacked or discarded one), bounce Spine of Ish Sah
Loot, discard the returned Spine of Ish Sah + an artifact...

Also, if Wurmcoil is good, Godo is definitely good. Batterskull can bounce itself (for loot) and can be sacked if it's without a token (for weld). The life gain is also pretty amazing against bolts and ancient tombs. Alex Holland created a list in the MUD thread incorporating Daretti in Godo Mud.

[bruizar]

Godoretti

Land 21

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Great Furnace
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Barbarian Ring
2 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Tower of the Magistrate [or other utility land]

Artifacts 21
4 Tangle Wire
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Batterskull
3 Grim Monolith
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Contagion Engine
1 Spine of Ish-Sah

Planeswalkers 5
4 Daretti, Scrap Savant
1 Karn Liberated, Ugin when spoiled

Creatures 11
4 Goblin Welder
3 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Godo, Bandit Warlord
1 Sundering Titan

Instants 3
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast

[MGB]

I feel that you have to include Mindslaver in here somewhere. It's a game-winning combo with Welder in play and 4 mana.

And even on its own, it's a good value play as you can do stuff like crack fetchlands and fail to find, or StP/Bolt their own guys.

[GenghisTom]

I'd start goldfishing with something like this:

4 x Welder
4 x Daretti

2 x Dack
4 x Gamble
2 x Liquimetal Coating

5 x REB/Pyroblast
4 x Trinisphere
1 x Tangle Wire
3 x Magus of Moon (better than Blood Moon as it can soak of removal from Welder and Robots)

3 x Wurmcoil
1 x Battlesphere
1 x Contagion Engine
1 x Mind Slaver

3 x Grim Monolith
2 x Mox Opal
4 x Great Furnace
4 x Ancient Tomb
4 x City of Traitors
3 x Seat of the Synod
3 x Darksteel Citadel
2 x Scalding Tarn
1 x Volcanic Island



Seems like it crushes combo with with Trinisphere/Blood Moon/Slaver
It might have trouble with Contol decks that just keep removing your threats which is why Inkwell Leviathan might be good main deck in place of 1 Wurmcoil.
Or maybe the amount of win cons is too low?
There's a nearly inexhaustible amount of card choice options.

I have a feeling Dack + Liquimetal Coating would really give control a tough time - the SB could contain the other 2 of each.

[apple713]

Godoretti

Land 21

2 Barbarian Ring


Artifacts 21

1 Lightning Greaves
1 Spine of Ish-Sah

Planeswalkers 5

Ugin when spoiled

Creatures 11
3 Godo, Bandit Warlord

barbarian ring?

i like spine and greaves

Who is ugin and what do you know about him?

3 godo seems much since it cost 6, maybe 1-2 especially because other than fetching a batterskul he's isn't synergistic with the rest of the deck.

I feel that you have to include Mindslaver in here somewhere. It's a game-winning combo with Welder in play and 4 mana.

And even on its own, it's a good value play as you can do stuff like crack fetchlands and fail to find, or StP/Bolt their own guys.

slaver is good as a 1 of, however we are approaching the point of lots of 1 ofs with no reliable way to search them other than loot for them... is there anything that can help us here?

Seems like it crushes combo with with Trinisphere/Blood Moon/Slaver
It might have trouble with Contol decks that just keep removing your threats which is why Inkwell Leviathan might be good main deck in place of 1 Wurmcoil.
Or maybe the amount of win cons is too low?
There's a nearly inexhaustible amount of card choice options.

I have a feeling Dack + Liquimetal Coating would really give control a tough time - the SB could contain the other 2 of each.

planeswalkers in general hurt control decks because really pithing needle / council's judgment are their only outs. you can steal a needle and weld it away or just weld it away if they have an artifact in grave.

goblin welder hurts control because they can counterspell something but it'll get recurred. you have to stick the welder tho and not let him get STP'd. Also being an explosive deck they can sometimes get caught offgaurd or overwhelmed.

Generally though i think this deck should have a fairly decent matchup against them because of the late game potential. It's also good against combo because it has early game explosiveness. If the consistency issues can get worked out we can define a very precise win strategy i think the deck has incredible potential.

I think you also really need Spine of Ish Sah. Spine fuels your weld, then it returns to your hand so it fuels your loot.

This card you can perfectly cycle with Daretti.

Loot, discard artifact + Spine of Ish-Sah
weld, sacrifice artifact, return Spine of Ish-Sah
weld, sacrifice Spine of Ish Sah, return artifact to play (sacked or discarded one), bounce Spine of Ish Sah
Loot, discard the returned Spine of Ish Sah + an artifact...

Also, if Wurmcoil is good, Godo is definitely good. Batterskull can bounce itself (for loot) and can be sacked if it's without a token (for weld). The life gain is also pretty amazing against bolts and ancient tombs. Alex Holland created a list in the MUD thread incorporating Daretti in Godo Mud.

great catch. for some reason i was thinking spine was a replacement effect, i just needed to RTFC.

cards to be concerned with
Deathrite shaman
rest in peace
tormod's crypt
Grafdigger's Cage

[bruizar]

Ugin is highly highly likely to be the next colorless planeswalker this block (reforged) with a Ghostfire attached to it and perhaps a time walk. Ugin is powerful enough to keep emrakul at bay so im expecting power creep. I suspect something of a mix between nicol bolas and karn liberated in terms of power.

@Barbarian ring: Perhaps a little too ambitious. The thought was, if you're filling the yard you might as well use barbarian ring to get rid of delvers and such. I think this works best if you also run back in UR

[LIKEABOSS]

Could this become a B/R or Grixis version using entomb and other reanimation effects? It seems like it could work.
T1- Volcanic Island, tap, Goblin Welder
T2-Swamp, Entomb, tap Goblin Welder, bring back x artifact from the grave, spell pierce in hand.

Now, this wont happen all the time, but its not a Magical Christmas Land scenario either.

I have to agree with those who say that adding Mindslaver would be beneficial. Even cracking the slaver ONCE can be game-changing (i.e. Force of Willing your opponents own spells, cracking fetches for no land, tapping out for no reason, or just making a stupidly bad decision.), and doing it infinite times flat-out wins you the game.

The Spine of Ish Sha doesn't seem that great simply because of how bad it is with Welder and Daretti.

[bruizar]

barbarian ring?
3 godo seems much since it cost 6, maybe 1-2 especially because other than fetching a batterskul he's isn't synergistic with the rest of the deck.

Yes, especially when you're also running wurmcoils.

cards to be concerned with
Deathrite shaman
rest in peace
tormod's crypt
Grafdigger's Cage

DRS only works on creature artifacts, so contagion engine isn't effected. Thats something. Chalice can help here. Not sure if there are other cards that can help..

Also, right now there isn't much in terms of discard. Pehaps a Gathan Raider or two could help dump bombs.