[Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

[Shawn]

Conveniently, for those worried about Blood Moon, Armageddon, Back to Basics, etc, people aren't really playing those cards in the SCG Opens at a very high number, or in the midwest in general. If people are playing these cards, I'd say just play a different deck.

Also, the thing that excites me about the deck is the cards that are played that answer Emrakrul don't really do that against this deck- Jace requires you to have 6 other permanents, and a Clique to remove it from their hand, which is going to be hard to cast after they sacced 6 permanents to his trigger. If they have Karakas, take your free turn, replay Emrakrul, take your free turn, and wipe their board.

[Rock Lee]

Still you will be eaten alive by Armageddon and Smokestack...If you go waiting for Trinket Mage, you can already sleep in your coffin :\

I know I'm going to get run out of this thread on a rail but...

Run Life from the Loam.

People who make suggestions without testing the deck will be shot, bitten, then shot again.

The list of green and blue cards that have been tested is extensive and I JUST MIGHT have started with the most played land based cards out there. Just saying. JUST saying.

[Masamune]

LfTL is a good choice. How about Teferi's Response?

@Rock Lee: Is Force of Will enough? Would FoW protect yourself against destruction while we are playing all those combo-lands?

[Sophocles]

I've been playing this deck on MTGO for the past week or so and I don't understand the need for Kozilek. I've taken him out and never had a situation arise where I wanted him.

[Rock Lee]

I've been playing this deck on MTGO for the past week or so and I don't understand the need for Kozilek. I've taken him out and never had a situation arise where I wanted him.

“Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance." - W. Clement Stone

[Sophocles]

Thanks for the complete non-response. Would it be too difficult to just explain what the purpose of Kozilek is?

[Rico Suave]

Kozilek's purpose is to draw cards, while also presenting a body that only costs 10 (8) instead of 15 (13).

[menace13]

Thanks for the complete non-response. Would it be too difficult to just explain what the purpose of Kozilek is?

What he means is; "you're right, the deck is bad and will never top 8 a GP."

[4eak]

Rock Lee gains +2 Trolling Skill

The difference in mana cost, as Rico Suave pointed out, is very important. Sometimes your ramp isn't built up enough to go straight for an Emrakul, but it is built up enough to play Kozilek (remember, we are tutoring these up a large portion of the time). Kozilek alone can win you the game, but even if he can't, he draws you enough cards to build the rest of the ramp for whatever will win you the game. The near uncounterability of his draw 4 is very nice. It can easily put you ahead against decks which are going for parity against you.

I've even used Kozilek just to dig for a necessary Repeal, for example.




peace,
4eak

[Rock Lee]

Rock Lee gains +2 Trolling Skill

As I have mentioned several times in the past, I don't repeat myself, nor do I give handouts to torpids. I already address Kozilek's role in my primer, but I just realized that the primer isn't actually linked in this thread. To hopefully sack any further repetition I will link them again here.

Turbo-Drazi Primer
1st appearance Major Event (2nd with ~80? players for 300$ prize) 3 weeks from this post
2nd appearance Major Event (1st with ~50 players for 340$ prize) 2 weeks from this post
3rd appearance Local Event (2nd with 24 players for 40$ prize) 1 week from this post

[4eak]

@ The New and Improved Pi4meterftw

As I have mentioned several times in the past, I don't repeat myself

Lulz. That is an ironic and hilarious statement.

nor do I give handouts to torpids

Again, your statement is full of win. --- You continue to be a hypocrite.

[Links]

Having read the contents of those posts before, and now having re-read them, I must say that an answer to his question is far from complete and well-organized in any of these links. If you had decided to civilly and completely answer the question, you certainly would not have been repeating yourself.

By all means, feel free to ignore posts (even mine) to which you can't find it within yourself to respond constructively. I thought Sophocles' question was actually the perfect place to flesh out, in great detail and organization, exactly how and why one should play Kozilek. I'm sorry you missed the opportunity.



peace,
4eak

[death]

4eak is correct. You can win on the back of Kozilek alone (annihilator 4), sometimes forcing a removal spell. At 10cc he is easily castable by turn 4 than Emrakul.

Regarding Trinket Mage, the card I immediately thought of replacing are the TfKs. Ponder works very well with SDT as it lets you see 3 new cards if you opt to shuffle.

Another card I'd like to see tested is Intuition.

[GGoober]

Glad to see the Trinket Mage working out for ya :) But obviously, it involved exponential iterations to optimizing the deck within 1 week of playtesting to fully accept x4 TM into the MD avoiding cutting cards 1-1. Must be hard to cut TfK without changing the core of the deck, because the exponential iterations to optimization of decks must have taken quite some time to getting the deck to function with TM.

[Rock Lee]

Glad to see the Trinket Mage working out for ya :) But obviously, it involved exponential iterations to optimizing the deck within 1 week of playtesting to fully accept x4 TM into the MD avoiding cutting cards 1-1. Must be hard to cut TfK without changing the core of the deck, because the exponential iterations to optimization of decks must have taken quite some time to getting the deck to function with TM.

Mage was in my first few versions of the deck prior to Glimmerpost, but redundancy was more important than filtering at the time. The Italians also stressed I re-test TM with my current version and he ended up being stronger than originally tested. It wasn't actually until my Dartmouth event against my Top 8 Opponent Jeff (forget last name), an ex-Vintage player of renown, who was playing Trinket Mage himself and mentioned his merits in a vacuum that really tipped me towards reinvestigating the card.

With GP, Mage gives you additional time, as well as being immediately functional as a blocker. Between TM and GP, your aggro matchup went from poor to good, which lets you focus on Combo and Wastes for heavy hate.

Sofar as changing the core of the deck, I've gotten the basic function layout solid, and now I don't mind more easily shifting around cards solong as they adhere to those functions. This is by far the most difficult process of tuning a deck since it is intangible, and it seems easiest to just sub cards for cards blindly without realizing their inherent mulitudinous functions.

[Anusien]

I'm not impressed with Kozilek's card draw ability. If you're at Eldrazi mana, you probably don't want the random cards. If you want a cheaper Eldrazi, you probably want Ulamog because it gives you access to Humility removal. (In addition, of course, to all the random other stuff you care about.)

Also, since you point out the 2x Emrakul plan in the primer, it's worth pointing out that Tabernacle lets you go infinite with just one Emrakul and Tabernacle, so long as you don't pay the upkeep.

I find that Primeval Titan is a far superior man to Emrakul most of the time. It's significantly easier to cast and almost as lethal. If you can untap with Primeval Titan, you're pretty much going to cast Emrakul on that next turn, and even if you don't, you're gonna get significant advantage. Consequently, I am a little underwhelmed by Candelabra.

I am also not in love with Glacial Chasm. Like Zuran Orb, they're going to set you back significantly on lands, which is actually going to make it difficult to get ahead. I considered Exploration to go with this package, but you don't really want to play enough lands to justify Exploration (probably at least 4 more).

[Rock Lee]

I'm not impressed with Kozilek's card draw ability. If you're at Eldrazi mana, you probably don't want the random cards. If you want a cheaper Eldrazi, you probably want Ulamog because it gives you access to Humility removal. (In addition, of course, to all the random other stuff you care about.)

Also, since you point out the 2x Emrakul plan in the primer, it's worth pointing out that Tabernacle lets you go infinite with just one Emrakul and Tabernacle, so long as you don't pay the upkeep.

I find that Primeval Titan is a far superior man to Emrakul most of the time. It's significantly easier to cast and almost as lethal. If you can untap with Primeval Titan, you're pretty much going to cast Emrakul on that next turn, and even if you don't, you're gonna get significant advantage. Consequently, I am a little underwhelmed by Candelabra.

I am also not in love with Glacial Chasm. Like Zuran Orb, they're going to set you back significantly on lands, which is actually going to make it difficult to get ahead. I considered Exploration to go with this package, but you don't really want to play enough lands to justify Exploration (probably at least 4 more).

This could easily be differences in play style, but I tutor Kozilek far more often than I tutor Emrakul. If I have to do a blind tutor with 13 mana eot, I won't always get emrakul. It entirely depends on what my opponent is playing, what removal they have, and what their responses could be. Kozilek will always move the game in your favor significantly, and if you draw candelabras, you can often easily chain into Emrakul on the same turn.

Humility isn't a problem at all. You still go infinite with Humility with 2 Eldrazis at which point it doesn't matter. You also run 6+ removal spells for Humility alone and often 4 random cards will show you one removal spell at least, not to mention you can just chump block with Kozilek and keep drawing. I've tested with both 1 Emrakul/Tabernacle versus 2 Emrkaul for infinite turns, and the 1 Emrakul/Tabernacle plan can barely even be considered since it is not easy to setup at all. The infinite plan is only when you're just barely able to eek out Emrakul but it won't win you the game.

Titan is amazing, but you run a small spell protection package so its really just a giant "hit me" sign. He's good for drawing counters and removal, and stabilizing the game against Rule of Fire decks, but I would never call him superior to Emrakul. Per Casting Cost Emrakul is by far the best creature ever printed with the possible exception of Goblin Welder or Mogg Fanatic back in combat stacking days.

Glacial Chasm is also only there as an oh-shit button. Its not supposed to be a turn 2 drop at all. Its there simply because I don't like losing to ridiculous Goblin/Merfolk/Affinity draws and burn decks or Zoo that packs Price of Progress. As a one-of you can't get much more "I can't die" protection than Glacial Chasm. In games where I do have to play or Crop Rotate Chasm into play on turn 2-3, I make sure I have Glimmerposts and Vesuvas to maintain me at 2-3 cumulative upkeep tops, and the goal entirely becomes find Primeval Titan.

[Masamune]

I faced Rock Lee in MWS and I should say: He plays very well and he beat me with this deck a couple of times.
I'm thinking about build it soon.
Anyone knows how I'd find cheap Candelabras to buy?

[android]

Right now, $70 is cheap. There was only one auction on Ebay last I checked.

[AncientSion]

I would like to see more youtube videos of these, either in MWS or MTGO

[Rico Suave]

I'm not impressed with Kozilek's card draw ability. If you're at Eldrazi mana, you probably don't want the random cards. If you want a cheaper Eldrazi, you probably want Ulamog because it gives you access to Humility removal. (In addition, of course, to all the random other stuff you care about.)

Actually, you do want random cards.

The main reason to go for a 10 drop Eldrazi is because 15 for Emrakul is not an option. In these instances Kozilek will provide the "random cards" - such as mana sources - necessary to get Emrakul online, while Ulamog will not. If your opponent has something as simple as a Plow, you'd much rather cast Kozilek (and have a plan for the next turn) as opposed to Ulamog which can be answered and then you're left high and dry with not enough mana or business spells in hand to do anything consequential.