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Thread: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

  1. #61

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    I went up to 4 Primeval Titan, so when I want a big giant monster, I can cast one early or easily. Turn 4 Primeval Titan makes it pretty damn easy to make a turn 5 Emrakul, surpassing the need for Ulamog altogether.
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  2. #62
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    I think the main reason for Kozilek is even if he's countered, you get some gain, at the heavy 10 mana investment. Sure Titan is 6 mana (4 cheaper) but when countered, you net nothing.

    However, if Titan isn't countered, I think the 2 lands tutored out at the 6 mana game phase is quite huge. Titan comes out earlier, grabs glimmerposts immediately against aggro, on a big body. And if he does swing again, you are very likely to cast an Eldrazi the next turn. Titan fetching Cloudposts/Glimmerposts/Tabernacle/Eye of Ugin just seems about ready to set up anything. Once again, I think the only drawback to Titan is not giving anything when countered while Kozilek gives you 4 cards to continue even if countered, but I can imagine that if they countered a Titan, means that there's one less counter right?! And this deck should just own the crap out of control anyway. Titan seems quite strong against aggro on the whole compared to Kozilek. Rock, did you test out 4 Titans at one point or missed this testing phase?
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  3. #63
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Going to 4 Titan hasn't been terrible. I'm not sure if it is the right call. There aren't many games where he resolves and I lose. He is supremely undercosted. He is a sick ramp-builder. I am pretty sure he is not win-more. I didn't remove Kozilek for Titan though. I've actually chosen to remove the Crop Rotations to try the Titans.


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  4. #64
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Metalwalker View Post
    Rock, did you test out 4 Titans at one point or missed this testing phase?
    I did when I originally added Titan to the deck. I tested originally with 4, since I thought they were the best thing since sliced bread. Down to 3, then 2 where I am now.

    The problems with high Titan count, is that you need a strong setup to make it work. You suffer tremendously under land pressure, where the deck is already weak. A simple wasteland on Post sets you back 2-3 turns instead of 1-2, not to mention that you're significantly more reliant on Candelabra.

    Additionally as Rico pointed out, you are also much more vulnerable to simple counterspells. This is why I mentioned that Anusien likely just has a different playstyle than I do. I mentioned that when I play the deck I play to stall. I play it like a control deck that lets spells resolve, but that has the upmost amount of inevitability. If you wanted to play the deck much more combo-centric style that beat quicker decks but died to counterspells then you could easily go to 4 candelabras and 4 Titans. This would be stronger against aggro matchups, but still wouldn't beat combo. And if you are in a meta with heavy aggro and combo then this deck is an extremely poor choice. Something like Team America would be a much stronger choice.

    TLDR: A 4x Titan build is high risk high reward, something this deck doesn't need in a meta where it will be strong.

    As with any combo deck, and this deck is combo/control, you can usually build the entire deck functionally through a pyramid type layout. Lots of Mana/Hand Fixing, medium amounts of combo Setup or removal, and then a small amount of finishers. 4 Titan already makes that finisher portion extremely top-heavy, and only makes the deck easier to collapse with small amounts of disruption.

    All that being said, If you still anticipate aggro being an issue, 3 titan is possible. 4 just seems very overkill and deck warping.

  5. #65

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    One of the big reasons I enjoy Kozilek is because it allows the deck to use its Expedition Map and/or Crop Rotation to find an Eye of Ugin with only ~10 mana available. This opens up a wide array of plays that are not otherwise available unless a colorless creature costing ~10 is present somewhere in the deck. As such a single copy of Kozilek being in the deck provides a lot of value to each of those land tutors, as well as Trinket Mage which can find Map.

    This isn't to say that the count of Primeval Titan and Eldrazi are mutually exclusive; instead I feel a card like Kozilek serves a unique function that a Titan cannot fulfill due to the fact Eye cannot tutor it up.
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  6. #66

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Had anyone considered Deserted Temple ?

  7. #67
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by AncientSion View Post
    Had anyone considered Deserted Temple ?
    Its honestly debatable as a singleton, since it lets you win without candelabra, but also synergizes with candelabra. Its too early before my next event to do testing with it, but I certainly will in the next week.

  8. #68
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Lot of people have started to test the deck online. I am seeing Magus of the Candle, Sylvan Scrying, Explore, Tooth and Nail and Overgrown Battlement in sb. One other that seemed good was Show and Tell plan, although I did not get to count how many Emrakul were there.
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  9. #69
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by menace13 View Post
    Lot of people have started to test the deck online. I am seeing Magus of the Candle, Sylvan Scrying, Explore, Tooth and Nail and Overgrown Battlement in sb. One other that seemed good was Show and Tell plan, although I did not get to count how many Emrakul were there.
    I noticed that, I've played it twice in the 2's Queue's so far (non-gold) on MTGO. I've got to admit that it's a much stronger deck than I originally thought it would be. I'm going to see if I can test the deck, maybe just proxy out the Candelabra's IRL (i know i could borrow them, but for testing, no need to hit the barns)
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  10. #70
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    @Rock Lee
    I wish you good luck my friend...
    I'm waiting anxiously your report after you kicked all those opp asses with hard cast eldrazis =D
    Your list and your skills seen pretty solid IMO. It was nice to have met you in MWS coincidentally

  11. #71
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Masamune View Post
    @Rock Lee
    I wish you good luck my friend...
    I'm waiting anxiously your report after you kicked all those opp asses with hard cast eldrazis =D
    Your list and your skills seen pretty solid IMO. It was nice to have met you in MWS coincidentally
    Thank you!

    If you lurk around MWS enough you'll find me for sure. I consider MWS testing the best testing. You can two-fisted test the decks to beat till you're blue in the face, but you can't quantify the random element you'll find online, which will also appear at events. That's what I care about since it covers an entire conceptional deck category most people just dismiss as fringe and therefore nonrepresentative.This is why I laugh so much when people complain about rogue decks filling up a meta. Legacy is a format of rogues decks with a very wide foundation. Assuming that anything isn't rogue is your first sign of weakness. Online training gives good inspirations toward neauvou innovation.

  12. #72
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    I would seriously consider scapeshift over titan. if you have four mana to spend on a titan that could be four cloud posts coming out with scapeshift.

  13. #73

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Is Tooth an Nail for Emrakul and Inner-Flame Accolyte worth exploring? 9 mana only two needs to be green and boseiju-able I like this deck a lot btw! Grats on your performance.

  14. #74

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Lee View Post
    Thank you!

    If you lurk around MWS enough you'll find me for sure. I consider MWS testing the best testing. You can two-fisted test the decks to beat till you're blue in the face, but you can't quantify the random element you'll find online, which will also appear at events. That's what I care about since it covers an entire conceptional deck category most people just dismiss as fringe and therefore nonrepresentative.This is why I laugh so much when people complain about rogue decks filling up a meta. Legacy is a format of rogues decks with a very wide foundation. Assuming that anything isn't rogue is your first sign of weakness. Online training gives good inspirations toward neauvou innovation.
    You're also predicating your testing against weaker, incompetent players who make an uncountable number of play mistakes on that software. To justify your testing against that kind of element doesn't speak volumes about your match-ups, both weak and strong. There really is no need to test against players and decks like that because if your deck is already developed enough to the point of a competitive seriousness, you should already have no trouble in dismissing randomness with a strong foundation.

    It's like shooting massive targets from four feet away - sure you'll blast a bull's eye each time, but how many times do you really need to keep practicing from that distance with those kind of targets? Not a good idea. An option? Sure. But MWS testing is by far the weakest way to gauge the power-level of a deck you're developing towards playing in a large event with competent opponents capable of playing much better and tighter than a fourteen year-old trying Soldiers out.

    I have a feeling you're falsely benefiting from weaker competition in your testing without understanding that "dumbing" down your play-skill to abyssal levels isn't going to benefit the future of this archetype or the players that enjoy the deck alike.

  15. #75
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by median View Post
    I would seriously consider scapeshift over titan. if you have four mana to spend on a titan that could be four cloud posts coming out with scapeshift.
    Titan can put lands adding to lands that already you have, furthermore he can swing with its 6/6 trample body making fetch more lands (of course when opp haven't any removal)

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacvs View Post
    Is Tooth an Nail for Emrakul and Inner-Flame Accolyte worth exploring? 9 mana only two needs to be green and boseiju-able I like this deck a lot btw! Grats on your performance.
    1) If you open hand is Inner-Flame you'll wish throw it in the wall...
    2) IMO Tooth Nail sucks... the main idea of this deck is just cast eldrazis either with cloudposts or search it with Eye of Ugin...

  16. #76
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    ........
    I have not enogh money to spent in MTGO to increase skills with competitive tournaments or something like that; about your concern, wich makes MWS left in the corner away, this is our option nowadays, or even Cockatrice. We would face professional players around MWS (wich is very hard to find and polite isn't the main factor there unfortunately) but many times we might fight solitary games making tests against yourself with different decks and strategies. I did this and I could say: isn't so bad but it stands to reason I'd rather MTG (no need to explain lol).

  17. #77

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Masamune View Post
    I have not enogh money to spent in MTGO to increase skills with competitive tournaments or something like that; about your concern, wich makes MWS left in the corner away, this is our option nowadays, or even Cockatrice. We would face professional players around MWS (wich is very hard to find and polite isn't the main factor there unfortunately) but many times we might fight solitary games making tests against yourself with different decks and strategies. I did this and I could say: isn't so bad but it stands to reason I'd rather MTG (no need to explain lol).
    If you don't have enough money to spend on MTGO, what makes you think you can afford a set of Candelabras to create this deck anyhow? It seems like flawed logic, and even though you're using these programs as a platform for testing (which is fine for you if it works), I don't see how you're justifying playing against horrible competition and winning over playing against good players and getting crushed. The only way to learn and get better is to play against people better than you. Cockatrice or not.

    You're also using the word "we" as if everyone else shares your sentiment. You've basically summed this entire thing up by expressing how rude and how hard it is to find competent, good players on MWS, yet people somehow continue to resort to it as if it were an outstanding way to test a deck out - which in most cases it isn't.

    Besides, this was in regards to Lee's comment that he believes MWS is the best way to test a deck out, which with all due respect I believe to be one hundred-eighty degrees from the truth. Test with good players in real life. Make proxies. Set up meetings with players online. But don't assume that Workstation is going to solve all of your issues, because rest assured if you cannot afford the cards in real life, you certainly wouldn't be able to online where it can be more expensive and you will ultimately have nothing to show for it when you decide to stop playing.

  18. #78
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Masamune View Post
    Titan can put lands adding to lands that already you have, furthermore he can swing with its 6/6 trample body making fetch more lands (of course when opp haven't any removal)
    I'm saying with scape shift you don't need any more lands than the four you have. 4 cloud posts will give you 16 mana which can cast any creature in the deck. the only time that you need want a 5'th is if you need an eye. I think the ability to getmore than 2 lands from your deck into play makes scapeshift better.

  19. #79
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    If you don't have enough money to spend on MTGO, what makes you think you can afford a set of Candelabras to create this deck anyhow
    Nothing to do with something

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    It seems like flawed logic, and even though you're using these programs as a platform for testing (which is fine for you if it works)
    So stop to chew out

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    The only way to learn and get better is to play against people better than you
    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    Cockatrice or not
    Cockatrice IMO and MWS both sucks, but I repeat: I have no options. If I spent money in MTGO I'll not have my Candelabras... did u catch this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    You're also using the word "we" as if everyone else shares your sentiment
    It's your viewponit...wherever

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    Test with good players in real life. Make proxies
    Not everybody has pleasure to play entire evening. Good to see the MTG softwares anytime. I don't wanna piss my friends off alltime

    I just like to play magic with I have in hands. And yes, I win tournaments just playing in MWS.

  20. #80

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Lee View Post
    I did when I originally added Titan to the deck. I tested originally with 4, since I thought they were the best thing since sliced bread. Down to 3, then 2 where I am now.

    The problems with high Titan count, is that you need a strong setup to make it work. You suffer tremendously under land pressure, where the deck is already weak. A simple wasteland on Post sets you back 2-3 turns instead of 1-2, not to mention that you're significantly more reliant on Candelabra.
    You have this backward. The thing about Titan is it increases your reliance on colored mana, not colorless mana. It's significantly easier to cast a Titan without Candelabra and without a critical mass of Cloudposts. If you are worried about Merfolk going after your Tropical Islands, that's when you can be afraid of Titan.

    By the way, I think the proper cut for Titan is not Crop Rotation or Kozilek, but All Is Dust.
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