Planeswalker Stax

[mistercakes]

saturn on mtgo has been giving me a lot of useful input as he's been testing this deck as well.

current list has some pretty cool mods. keep in mind sb is for magic online, as is the main deck (lack of tangle wire on magic online)
i particularly like the inclusion of words of war. i still haven't had a game where i draw it, but i am assuming it has to be absolutely insane with jace.

(sorry for format, that's how mtgo arranges the order of the cards)



//lands
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Maze of Ith
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Island
2 The Abyss
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Academy Ruins
4 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 City of Traitors
1 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Misty Rainforest

4 Mox Diamond
4 Trinisphere
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Words of War
3 Smokestack

Sideboard
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Boil
2 Smother
4 Engineered Plague
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Null Rod

[GGoober]

Hey cakes, been following this for awhile and want to say keep up the good work. Looks like a very potential solid contestor in the Stax family. Once I get my hands on a Tabernacle (probably never lol) and 2 Abyss, I'll sleeve this up!

[mistercakes]

Mainboard -1 words -1 karn + 2 tangle wire.

Lots of sb testing though will update again later

[IamPhil]

Saturn here. Saw the deck here, fell in love with it, and I've spent a good week playing it on MTGO and on paper, including playing it at SCG's GPT: Providence here in Roanoke, VA last Saturday.

List:

4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Crucible of Wolds
4 Trinisphere
2 Smokestack
1 Powder Keg
1 Tangle Wire
4 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Opal
1 KARRRRRRRRRN!

3 Ancient Tomb
3 City
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
4 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
2 Island
1 Academy Ruins
1 Volcanic Island
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Seat of the Synod

Sideboard:
3 Boil
2 Mindbreak Trap
3 Engineered Plague
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Smokestack
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 The Abyss

Tournament Report:

Round 1 vs Jeff Abbot playing Lands
Jeff was playing a Mike Caffrey's 43-Lands with two main deck changes:
1 Intuition instead of 1 Entomb
1 Riftstone Portal instead of the 5th Fetch

Jeff and I have played many times before, so I immediately pegged him on Dredge, ANT, and Reanimator in that order when we sat down. One-and-a-half turns later I was wrong cycled a Thicket on my EOT, then he dropped a Life from the Loam to get back a fetch and Thicket on his turn, so I swapped gears and prepared for the long game and protected myself from a Wasteland lock.

Using Tangle Wire (1) and Crucible I bought some turns then stabilized with both basic Islands while facing down a Ghost Quarter/Loam lock. He finally drew into EE, cracked it on three, and took out a Crucible and Trinisphere. Played draw go a bit, and eventually I got down one of each Planeswalker and forced him to recur his EE again, buying me yet more turns. With double Jace on top after a Jace-Storm, I played out the second, and bought the recurred EE a third time before sealing the deal with a Tezz-swing, Tezz-Storm, 3rd Jace/Brainstorm into Wasteland for his lone Maze while he was at 4 life.

Knowing what cards I had put on the bottom, I knew when to aggressively Brainstorm/Tezz-Storm for the right pieces and sealed G1 with eight minutes and change on the clock.

+2 EE
+2 Mindbreak Trap (for Loam)
-2 Smokestack
-1 Tangle Wire
-1 Powder Keg

Game two we ran out of time, as I had Wasteland for his Creeping Tar Pit, and even in extra turns he couldn't kill me.

Games: 1-0-1
Matches: 1-0-0

Round 2 vs Mike Whitelock playing ANT with LEDs
Mike is one of our up and coming regulars to FNM Legacy and has been a consistent combo player. Luckily for both of us, we had tested the everlasting hell out of this matchup the night before. Unluckily for Mike, I play ANT, know the math like the back of my hand, and know how and when to attack his deck aggressively.

I won the die roll, dropped an Ancient Tomb, Mox Diamond, and a Chalice for 1. Mike calmly drew, scooped, and proceeded to sideboard.

+2 EE
+2 Mindbreak Trap
-1 Tabernacle
-2 Smokestack

Game two he went off turn one, on the play, and I didn't have a trap even though I had the Engineered for his LEDs.

Game three he fetched to 19, my Powder Keg swung for five to put him at 14, then my Mox Diamond joined the Powder Keg to put him at four, and he fetched before going off like the gutsy ANT player he is. (And this is why I love Mike - He always plays to win no matter what! Go ANT!! :D )

He also made a really gutsy playing Chain of Vaporing my Mox Diamond in response to my Trinisphere that game. I stabilized faster than he did, but it was clooooose!

Games: 3-1-1
Rounds 2-0-0

Round 3 vs Wesley Wise playing High Tide with Time Spiral
A fellow SCG employee, Wes and I also tested this matchup. Things did not look good for me.

And true to part, Wes went off after countering my Trinisphere, and I scooped when he showed me the Cunning Wish.

Game two went a bit better. With four islands up to my double Mox Diamond and City of Traitors, things looked grim for me on the draw. I drew my card, and, yet again, passed the turn. I misplayed my lands (deliberately!) and promptly boxed myself out of playing anything for the next three to five turns because I had Boil in my opening!

On Wes' turn, he played Ponder, Island, then shipped it. On my EOT, Wes played Cunning Wish, tapping out. I cast Boil in response and patiently waited for the FoW. He didn't have it. Trinisphere came down a couple turns later, and we went to G3.

I don't remember much about G3, but he played Meditate, whiffed on the Force of Will, and Tezz went aggro to drop him to four. Wes could have played Echoing Truth to give him another turn, but he held it back trying to be greedy*.

Games: 5-2-1
Rounds: 3-0-0

* As a High Tide player, I think Wes made the right call, but both points have merit.

Luckily for me, Matt "Googs" Gargiulo lost to Mono Red with Pyrostatic Pillar the same round, so only one Time Spiral would make it to the Top 8.

Round 4 vs Hunter Sumpter playing Goblins? Mono Red?
Intentional Draw

Round 5 vs Cameron ?? playing MBC
Intentional Draw.

I screwed up here. At ten points I was garaunteed in, win or lose, and should have played Cameron. Our 8th seed, burn, was a pretty good matchup for me between being fairly new and me knowing exactly what and when to chalice. And, if I lost, I would be playing against MBC with no answer to Planeswalkers if they got on the board. It's not the best matchup, but it's pretty darned tasty compared to Team America and BGW Rock... Doh!


Quarter Finals vs Mike Kerby playing Team America
I despise Knight of the Reliquary with a passion. Oh, and Hymn to Tourach, too! And Stifle!! Needless he crushed me fairly easily and without pause. :)


I would love to elaborate more, but I have to run to work. :D

[mistercakes]

Thanks for the report!

[Koby]

SwampRitualNegator - Thanks for testing with me last nite in the 2man queues. I love the deck, even though you got some pretty consistent hands against my Elves ;)

It seemed like a lot of the hands you kept ran out of gas after you played out Crucible or Planeswalkers. I'm wondering if this is because you can't follow up with Tangle Wire like you could in Paper. Any thoughts about EE engine maindeck? Or Propaganda vs the tribal hordes. Just some ideas to shore up what may be a rough Vial matchup.

[mistercakes]

the deck originally had EE. it's definitely a good option and it has been good some games. other games where trinisphere is out, it tends to be hard to cast and use in the same turn. propaganda doesn't protect the planeswalkers. tangle wire is pretty sick though. it is missed.

[IamPhil]

Came across a few cards I'd like to test, and played against Clockwork Orange on MTGO. Pleasure to play against you if you read this, Clockwork!


Steel Golem
Often times we just need an early creature to stop the bleeding. He's a three drop with a four butt, so that means he can trade with a creature before eating a Lightning Bolt. If he eats a Path or a Swords we haven't invested five mana and a whole turn playing him, and he's an artifact so he has good synergy with The Abyss.

We can always make him a 5/5 with Tezz, and we can bounce him with Jace if you run Karn main or board him in.

Vedalken Shackles
Right now I run five Islands, two basics, two Underground Sea, and a Volcanic. The Volcanic is on the way out (see "Additional Changes" below), but stealing small critters and sacrificing them to Tabernacle or throwing them in harms way anyhow is pretty good. Also, stealing a Sower is pretty tech I hear... Man I hate Sower...

Tainted AEther
This card is on the cuff. Against mass aggro it can be bonkers if you get it down quickly enough. Combined with Wasteland, Tabernacle, The Abyss and/or Smokestack and you have a nice soft lock. But it's fragile, mana intensive at both the CMC and double black requirement, and requires other pieces to be most beneficial.

Lethal Vapors
Lethal Vapors, on the other hand, has some serious potential. This is definitely a skill-testing card as you and your opponent can seriously bone each other with it and Smokestack. Also, you can activate it multiple times...

Tsabo's Web and Static Orb
Tsabo's Web and Static Orb both have potential, but not in this build and not in this Meta. Static Orb/Tabernacle/Planeswalkers is pretty sick.

Additional Changes:
I'd also like to remove the Volcanic Island and Flooded Strand for a Badlands and Scalding Tarn respectively. Popping a fetch to get a Volcanic to Boil is just dumb, and I don't know why I didn't think of that before. Swapping the Flooded Strand to an appropriate fetch is a no-brainer, too. (Credit to Clockwork Orange for that brainstorming.)


So, all in all, not bad for a Saturday of testing. I spent 16 tickets to test a few things out (Namely Words of War and Ajani Vengeant, neither of which did well) and earned 6 packs of UD. Even if the packs only net me 15 tickets (which is way low), I came out about ahead and got to play a deck I enjoy?

I recommend this deck.

[mistercakes]

was thinking about the badlands changes too, i dont actually own a badlands, so i was too lazy to try it out.

very funny overall though, clockwork orange is someone that i actually playtest w/ irl. small world. i thought of steel golem earlier, but it was mostly as a joke. i guess it could make sense though. i've been running 2 smother online though and that takes care of most creatures in this meta.

totally forgot about tainted aether. that's a really cool little addition. double black isn't so bad with the 2 urborg in the main, but i can see how 4 mana is a little difficult.

lol@ lethal vapors. i don't even want to test that card. very funny.

you've been testing out a good bunch of stuff. i'll have to test some more cards in the maindeck. i've mostly been just playing around with sb cards for the last few days.

great ideas.

went through deck editor and found some cards might be worth testing:

desolation
ancestral memories
pendrell mists
polluted bonds (lifegain?)
shimmer?
sunken hope?
thought lash? (might need 4 smokestacks for this)
solitary confinement (lock with jace, maybe with tezz, might put a horizon canopy + tundra in maindeck for that)
life gift?
awakening zone
dust bowl* (not on magic online)
sandspoise combo? might be fun. sands of time is actually very funny with tabernacle.

[sdematt]

I've sleeved this deck up because I can literally play a deck that costs infinite money, and now Stax has draw and a clock. Is better than Geddon or Dutch? Not necessarily. Is it a different beast? Oh yes.

Playing the most expensive cards in multiples is great. I can literally play the four thousand dollar solution!

-Matt

[P-E]

http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.ph...4&iddeck=43102
is this you mistercake ?

nice list ^^

[mistercakes]

that's saturn on mtgo or iamphil on here. he's been contributing to the list a lot with some testing since i've posted the original list.

[Titan]

any thoughts on these?

Spine of Ish Sah
Intuition

Spine is amazing in vintage stax, yes it costs a billion mana but it's insane with smokestack

intuition seems like a resonable play to set up all the 1 of lands, it works for LANDS! why not here?

[conboy31]

I just don't think spine translates to any stax deck in legacy without metalworker, and even then its suspect. Very rarely do I look at a board state of 7 mana and wish I had something to cast. The vintage comparison does not work very well because they have access to workshop, moxes, lotus, crypt, and vault, in addition to the best acceleration that is legal in legacy (ancient tomb, traitors, etc).

[mistercakes]

i think i agree 100% with conboy about the spine.

intuition --> i'm not sure how it is in the deck. it can warrant testing, i don't have that much time to test irl and i don't have them on magic online. you are more than welcome to test them out and let me know how it goes.

[IamPhil]

I took 7th Place out of I'm-not-sure, P-E.

I ran Intuition in my Thopter Foundry Stax variant, and it fared well. As a toolbox fan, I ran 2 Humility, 1 Moat, 1 Tabernacle, 1 Academy Ruins, 1 Tolaria West, 3 Crucible of Worlds, 3 Ghostly Prison, 2 Thopter Foundry, 1 Sword of the Meek, 3 Jace (2/1 Split, should have been 4!) and a few other cards.

For those of you who haven't abused Intuition, there are two main considerations for deck construction. The first being tricks - what combos you can set up for an "EOT, Intuition, [Win]" based either solely on a given three cards, or based on a given three cards + card in hand to make someone autopick incorrectly for your opponent and correctly for you. The second consideration is running three-ofs that you can tutor for to guarantee getting what you need.

Viewing my list from above, and playing a 60 +4 card deck just to make the exercise easier, what three cards would you Intuition for at the EOT in a given situation of your choosing? Why? And how would you shortcut your decision makings for future Intuition stacks?

(At the end of the day, I believe you should build an Intuition-based deck rather than squeeze Intuition into an existing list, but that's my personal opinion. Feel free to prove me wrong! :D )

As for Spine? Spine is cute. If you can cheat the Spine out, why aren't you cheating something better onto the battlefield? And if you can play the Spine naturally, why aren't you playing something like Nicol Bolas (that's far more epic and just as cutesie!) or doing something very worthwhile to progress your game state?


Cakes, going through your list I've checked some of these out:

desolation
Once Smokestack has put you in the position where you have to sacrifice lands, you will never get back ahead of your opponent. Desolation won't help this. Also, Elves will ravage you, as will Metalworker. On MTGO though, this has premise as a sideboard for White Incremental Gains.

ancestral memories
Even with two basic Islands main, I think UUU will be too tough to pull off, and for the same or similar cost we have better draw spells. (Though the dig is quite commendable.)

pendrell mists
Testing has shown your opponent keeps the best creature(s). I think this is enough to naysay the Mists.


thought lash? (might need 4 smokestacks for this)
solitary confinement (lock with jace, maybe with tezz, might put a horizon canopy + tundra in maindeck for that)
life gift?
awakening zone

These four strike me as having the most merit.

thought lash? (might need 4 smokestacks for this)
Thought Lash seems to beat Burn all day long, including Pyrostatic Pillar and Sulferous Vortex. As long as you get *A* win condition, who cares? My game against Burn has been pretty good, but if Lash shows significant enough overlap... Say... Exiling dead cards put back off a Jace-storm to sculpt your deck more aggressively? I could see this being really good. I don't even think you need Smokestack for this because you can opt to not pay the Cumulative Upkeep.

solitary confinement (lock with jace, maybe with tezz, might put a horizon canopy + tundra in maindeck for that)
What a skill testing combination... I would consider this as a one-of and also consider a Thopter/Sword combo, too. (Que: Rebuild Planeswalker Stax with Intuition.) That being said, Stax faces a lot of pressure by going all in both in hand and board resources. You're devoting most/all of your hand to lock out the game as early as possible. The deck is fragile enough as it is, and adding to the fragility yourself may cost you a game for every few games it wins you. Fuck theory. Let's test this to find out.


life gift? and awakening zone
These have potential, but I don't think it's enough. Offsetting life loss from our own fetch lands, plus gaining life against opponent's lands and Knight of the Reliquaries seems good, but KotR just grows until it can churn out a Wasteland or two and alpha strike us out in a single swing. I don't think either of these will be enough. I like green though... Life from the Loam or a three drop that'll grant extra lands and extra manlands could have potential.


Welp, these are my thoughts for now. Through the week, I'm going to hunker down and come up with my all-inclusive list for you with my hard choices and then my optional & metagame cards for you, Cakes. Hopefully you won't be focusing too much on your deck for a while :)

Also, the more I think about it, the more I like running two Smother main...

[mistercakes]

thought lash u have to pay the upkeep or your library is exiled. smokestack can get rid of it without having to pay the upkeep.

newly spoiled card: phyrexian metamorph. 3(*)

Artifact Creature - Shapeshifter
( can be paid with either or 2 life.)
You may have Phyrexian Metamorph enter the battlefield as a copy of any artifact or creature on the battlefield, except it's an artifact in addition to its other types.

this might be really good for copying goyfs, gaddock teegs, progenitus, emrakul, and other artifacts. might this warrant maindeck inclusion? the fact that it can be found with tezz is a really nice inclusion. i hope this deck doesn't require massive modifications with the new set, but it looks like there are quite a few goodies.

[IamPhil]

Yes. I think that's probably going to take Steel Golem / Karn's spot. :)

[mistercakes]

played in denmark this week. went 1-3!

match 1 vs natural order prog. he got it games 1 and 3 and i didn't have a bridge to stop him.
match 2 vs goblins, win thanks to tabernacle and engineered plagues.
match 3 vs bug (tombstalker goyf variant) game 1 got double force double daze triple goyfed. game 2 got hymed double goyf tombstalker.
match 4 vs affinity. lost in 3 games. null rod could have won game 3 but he had turn 1 nuts turn 2 tezzeret.

not a huge update, just wanted to mention that i lost all 4 dice rolls and was on the draw in each match. being on the draw game 1 significantly hurts the deck as the raw power of this deck only wants to be vs FoW instead of a trillion other cards. (aether vial, daze, thoughtseize, hymn and so on)

the plus side is that there were about 30 people at a tuesday legacy tourney! very high competition as well. if anyone was there and posts on here, lemme know what ya think.

gg's to all.

-Rob

[conboy31]

Ensnaring bridge is a meta call. Some lists I have seen have it md, or sb, or none at all. I am coming around to the idea of running a copy in the maindeck. Against some aggro decks, with the attrition of resources and our life total, I have found that I die to a large tarm/kotr/terravore (all of those creatures get very big, and they tend to run wasteland). What is troubling is that I know I have none or very few outs.
The misers bridge covers many of the bigger common creatures, mitigates multiple lords, and stops the rare progenitus/emrakul. It is an affordable 3 colorless and pairs with academy of ruins. Decks often can't kill it too many times, if at all game one.